Should Colclough's muffed punt reception be a fumble? (1 Viewer)

[cjdavis]

My league but not my match-up. It's between a buddy and that one obnoxious guy in your league everyone loves to mock/goad/tease.

Final score is Buddy 103.86 to Obnoxio's 104.14. In our league, fumbles lost are +2 pts for the DEF/ST that recovers it. Obnoxio started the Bengals DEF/ST. Also, muff's recovered are not scored in our league. (Honestly, whose league covers this?)

Here's the NFL's play-by-play.

Here's the NFL's stats.

Here's the NFL's Digest of Rules.

CBS Sportsline, basing the scoring on the NFL's stats, credited the Bengals DEF/ST with the fumble recovery. But 3/4 of the way down the digest page, a distinction is clearly made between fumbles and muffs:

1. The distinction between a fumble and a muff should be kept in mind in considering rules about fumbles. A fumble is the loss of player possession of the ball. A muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

So then it's merely a matter of possession. Watching the play (and even reading the play-by-play) shows that Ricardo Colclough never had possession of the ball. It hit him and bounced off, recovered by the Bengals. Why should he be charged with the fumble lost, as he is in the stats?What say you all?

And to get it in before anyone else, here's the obligatory .

-Chris

 

[J-Rock]

.

What the hell does this mean???

 

[Steelers4Life]

Do we really need to bring this muff up again?

I'm still pissed off about it... if he stays away from the damn ball, the Steelers have a 3 point lead with 8 minutes left, a dominating running game, and a defense that had allowed one 1st down in the 2nd half.

 

[cjdavis]

.

What the hell does this mean???

See #10.

 

[Caesar]

Of course it must be brought up again. After all, its all we Bengals fans will have to hold onto until the last game of the season.

 

[belljr]

we use the stats provided. To us the muff is the same as a fumble even if it technically is different.

If the NFL/CBS change the points before next weeks games we take the updated stats. IF not it stays as is.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

It's a fumble....plain and simple. If a punt/kick returner attempts to catch the ball and ANY contact is made with it and he does not control the ball, it is a fumble.

It sucks for the guy in the league that gets burned....but thats what having a special teamer on your roster can do to you. If he can get points for returning it for a TD then he can lose points for fumbling.

And if Doug Brien would have made a field goal the Jets would have beat the Steelers in the playoffs....

But since he didnt...we cant play the If if's and but's were candy and nuts game. It sucked then...it sucks now!!! plain and simple.

I love the bengals taking that division over....but hey thats just me, i'm still bitter.

 

[diesel7982]

It's a fumble....plain and simple. If a punt/kick returner attempts to catch the ball and ANY contact is made with it and he does not control the ball, it is a fumble.

Are you meaning for fantasy or for the NFL?Its a "muff" not a fumble, under NFL rules.

 

[cjdavis]

It's a fumble....plain and simple. If a punt/kick returner attempts to catch the ball and ANY contact is made with it and he does not control the ball, it is a fumble.

Got a link for that ruling?Shouldn't a fumble directly and always imply possession?-Chris

 

[NYCGangGreen]

NFL = muff

Fantasy = fumble

There is no way of awarding a muff stat in fantasy, therefore it would have to be counted as a fumble.

 

[cjdavis]

NFL = muff

Fantasy = fumble

There is no way of awarding a muff stat in fantasy, therefore it would have to be counted as a fumble.

No, it doesn't have to be counted as anything. If you don't award a muff stat, then simply don't. Don't make it something else entirely. But the problem as I see it, isn't a mis-scoring by CBS Sportsline (in my case).The problem is the NFL ruled it a fumble, directly contradicting it's play-by-play.

Sportsline's just following the lead of the NFL stats page, as they should.

-Chris

 

[sartre]

No, it doesn't have to be counted as anything. If you don't award a muff stat, then simply don't. Don't make it something else entirely. But the problem as I see it, isn't a mis-scoring by CBS Sportsline (in my case).

The problem is the NFL ruled it a fumble, directly contradicting it's play-by-play.

Sportsline's just following the lead of the NFL stats page, as they should.

-Chris

I agree with you. I would imagine this would be corrected and reported as such when ESB reports the corrections (Wednesday morning, I think).

 

[cjdavis]

I agree with you. I would imagine this would be corrected and reported as such when ESB reports the corrections (Wednesday morning, I think).

You may be right, but that could be too late for my league as Sportsline appears to have a corrections deadline.

We do not change these official stats unless the NFL Official Stat (sic), although we will include any late changes the NFL sends us by end-of-day Tuesday.

-Chris

 

[painkiller]

If I'm the commish, unless the league rules specifically mention that a muff is not a fumble, then it is a fumble for fantasy purposes. If the league wants to add a "muff is not a fumble" rule for 2007, then so be it, but in 2006 it would still be a fumble.

 

[cjdavis]

If I'm the commish, unless the league rules specifically mention that a muff is not a fumble, then it is a fumble for fantasy purposes. If the league wants to add a "muff is not a fumble" rule for 2007, then so be it, but in 2006 it would still be a fumble.

But NFL rules already "specifically mention that a muff is not a fumble" (3/4 down the page, under Fumble: 1.).Why should a FFL's rules need apply?

-Chris

 

[ImTheScientist]

Do we really need to bring this muff up again? I'm still pissed off about it... if he stays away from the damn ball, the Steelers have a 3 point lead with 8 minutes left, a dominating running game, and a defense that had allowed one 1st down in the 2nd half.

 

[painkiller]

If I'm the commish, unless the league rules specifically mention that a muff is not a fumble, then it is a fumble for fantasy purposes. If the league wants to add a "muff is not a fumble" rule for 2007, then so be it, but in 2006 it would still be a fumble.

But NFL rules already "specifically mention that a muff is not a fumble" (3/4 down the page, under Fumble: 1.).Why should a FFL's rules need apply?

-Chris

Our league rules say something like this (under D/ST scoring): "Fumble = 1 point".How a fumble is interpreted is not specified in detail. If your situation occured in our league, and someone protested the scoring of the muff as a fumble, then it would be up to the commish to decide. (that's how our league works). I was just saying that if I'm the commish, it's a fumble.

Why should a FFL's rules need apply?

If the fantasy league rules specify that "a muff is not considered a fumble" or "a muff is the same as a fumble", then that rule takes precedence over any NFL rules. Just like you can give players 10 points for a 50+ yard TD. The NFL doesn't do that... it's still 6 points.Since it doesn't sound like your rules spell out the muff vs. fumble, then the scoring dispute should be settled however disputes normally are.

You could just have to two guys fight it out...

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

It seems like the burden should be on the rules to specify that "a muff is a fumble". If the FF scoring rules don't state it specifically, you shouldn't be able to just arbitrarily add it. If the rules are silent, then a muff is not a fumble. If there are no scoring rules on muffs, then no points should be awarded or penalized. I love muffs.