Should The Steelers Sign LeVeon Bell To New Long Term Deal? (1 Viewer)

[ZWK]

QB matters way more than any other position. The interesting question is how much a top RB is worth compared to a top WR, DE, CB, ILB, etc.

 

[Steeler]

CLE has invested a lot in the rB position.  Steelers fans should be more concerned that he ends up in Baltimore.

Good point - this would definitely be the worst case scenario for Steeler fans.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Too much money to tie up in a running back. Plus, I can easily imagine Bell as the kind of guy that would show up with a "got my money, don't care anymore" attitude. He's already doing that in some cases, skipping walkthroughs, showing up late, etc.

The Steelers made him a pretty good offer, and he was pretty stupid to turn it down because he'll be playing for the Browns next year.

 

[jtd13]

The Steelers made him a pretty good offer, and he was pretty stupid to turn it down because he'll be playing for the Browns next year.

The Steelers made him an absolute crap offer. Rapaport's original report was refuted, and now he's saying it had "rolling guarantees". That's a nice way of saying "not guaranteed". It sounds like the offer was basically the franchise tag for 5 straight years without any additional guarantees to what Bell has with the franchise tag this year.

 

[jtd13]

I voted Steelers probably should have signed him. In general tying up lots of cap space in a RB isn't a great idea, but I think Pittsburgh's SB window with Ben is slammed shut once Bell is gone. They should have locked Bell up for at least 2 seasons without trying to tack on several "team option" years with no guarantees at the end.

 

[Phenomena]

When's the last time the best player at a given position, while still in his prime, went into unrestricted free agency?  This is like Rodgers or Donald hitting FA.  I get that the RB position is devalued somewhat, but if Bell has his normal season this year he's going to make crazy bank. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

When's the last time the best player at a given position, while still in his prime, went into unrestricted free agency?  This is like Rodgers or Donald hitting FA.  I get that the RB position is devalued somewhat, but if Bell has his normal season this year he's going to make crazy bank. 

Suh?

 

[irish eyes]

When's the last time the best player at a given position, while still in his prime, went into unrestricted free agency?  This is like Rodgers or Donald hitting FA.  I get that the RB position is devalued somewhat, but if Bell has his normal season this year he's going to make crazy bank. 

No team, NONE,  except maybe the stupid browns will pay crazy money to a RB. Bell & his agent are both idiots. 

 

[Bojang0301]

The Steelers made him an absolute crap offer. Rapaport's original report was refuted, and now he's saying it had "rolling guarantees". That's a nice way of saying "not guaranteed". It sounds like the offer was basically the franchise tag for 5 straight years without any additional guarantees to what Bell has with the franchise tag this year.

 If it was a crap offer it wouldn’t have been reported as “close” and “closer than last offseason”. 

 

[Bojang0301]

Also, Rapaport is a clown and has had several wrong reports about Steelers. So gtfoh with the “Rapaport says” stuff.

 

[Phenomena]

No team, NONE,  except maybe the stupid browns will pay crazy money to a RB. Bell & his agent are both idiots. 

I'm going to disagree here.  2019 looks like a very weak running back class. Only five guys have grades of round 3 or higher, and only one with a first-round grade. If a team has most of the pieces together but is missing a dynamic RB/WR - they might swing for the fences with Bell to try to get over the hump.

The other part you are missing is that there are some really bad owner/GMs whom make very unprofitable cap moves just to try and sell tickets.  Jim Irsay traded a first-round pick for Richardson (after it was obvious he did not have the vision or elusiveness required at the NFL level.) 

Speaking of the Colts, they actually have a ton of cap space - and that defense is improving.  If Luck returns to form, they could be a team to watch for the Bell sweepstakes. 

The Raiders could be another team to watch. Despite the expensive signings, they still have a lot of cap space free next year.  Gruden has proven he loves expensive veteran signings. Martin/Lynch are both on cheap deals and both have played like garbage lately.  They could dump one or both and sign Bell to make a run. That team has all the other pieces required to make a SB run (except maybe secondary). 

Since it's guaranteed money that Bell wants - I think that's what he's going to get.  He's probably going to end up with something like $25M guaranteed but a lower APY than the Steelers offered.  Maybe something like $50M/4-year but with $25M guaranteed.

 

[jtd13]

 If it was a crap offer it wouldn’t have been reported as “close” and “closer than last offseason”. 

Nobody knows what the actual offer was. But considering the guy that first reported it was 5/$70m/$33m gtd is now saying it was actually just $10m guaranteed, I think people can stop referencing the first report to say Bell turned down some mega contact.

 

[Sebowski]

Also, Rapaport is a clown and has had several wrong reports about Steelers. So gtfoh with the “Rapaport says” stuff.

I think you misread that quote. It is more in line with what you're saying. "Rapaport's report was refuted". Just like you said, he's a clown. Worst in the business. My red flag for him was a couple years ago when he was telling everybody about an imminent draft day 3 way trade where the Skins get Romo, someone gets Cousins, and Cowboys get 1st round picks. So stupid. How does this guy still have a job? 

 

[Hankmoody]

Is running back pay going to go up - yes, but probably not by as much as you think. Do a lot of teams purposely use rbs on rookie deals due to both the pay scale and the shorter nfl careers of rbs  - yes. RB is also probably the easiest position to play instantly as a rb (except for the ones that have no idea about pass protection). I think there is a 95% chance this is Bell's last year in Pittsburgh, you just don't know when the wheels will fall off (see Demarco Murray) and it doesn't help that Bell is one F up away from being suspended for a year. Steelers are smart not to give him the long term deal.

No he's not.  He's likely not even in the Substance Abuse Program any more.  Even if he is, his next violation would only be 4 games.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

No he's not.  He's likely not even in the Substance Abuse Program any more.  Even if he is, his next violation would only be 4 games.

how does one get out of the substance abuse program?? never heard of anyone accomplishing that, at least not in the news. Bryant, Gordon been in it for years. Bell busted for pot how does one 'get out of the program'??

 

[Bojang0301]

Nobody knows what the actual offer was. But considering the guy that first reported it was 5/$70m/$33m gtd is now saying it was actually just $10m guaranteed, I think people can stop referencing the first report to say Bell turned down some mega contact.

I don’t believe Adam Schefter changed his report. You keep believing that amateur Rapaport though. I won’t stop you.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Here s a somewhat recent article, references him violating it twice so far

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/03/08/without-a-long-term-deal-when-will-steelers-leveon-bell-show-up-week-1-week-4-week-10/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.45807354b52c

here is a bit of a breakdown, not sure what stage he is in but with 2 violations I'd assume he is still in, and it looks to me if he gets busted for pot again (his drug of choice) it might be 10 games.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9218621/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-substance-abuse-policies-martavis-bryant-steelers

would be interested if anyone has the real facts

 

[Hankmoody]

how does one get out of the substance abuse program?? never heard of anyone accomplishing that, at least not in the news. Bryant, Gordon been in it for years. Bell busted for pot how does one 'get out of the program'??

Bryant and Gordon both advanced to Stage 3 and once in Stage 3 you remain there "for life"*. 

Bell's suspension was reduced to 3 games and they specifically negotiated that he would remain in Stage 2.  From the Policy:

(e)
Completion of Stage Two
A Player who completes Stage Two without being advanced to Stage Three will be discharged from the Intervention Program, after which he will be afforded the same status as a Player who had never by Behavior or a Positive Test been referred to the Intervention Program.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Agents/2016SOAPolicy_v2.pdf

Von Miller is the most recent, public one that exited the Program.  In a nutshell, your first violation gets you into Stage 1.  If you stay clean 90 days you're back to zero but a second violation while in Stage 1 gets you a 4 game fine and puts you into Stage 2.  Stage 2 lasts two years unless you have two more violations.  The first violation while in Stage 2 (second altogether) gets you a 10 game suspension and re-starts the 2 year clock, a second violation advances you to Stage 3 with an indefinite suspension (1  year minimum) that Gordon and Bryant had.

https://www.denverpost.com/2015/08/02/von-miller-released-from-nfls-drug-program/ - this one erroneously says players can be released from Stage 3.  It's probably a typo, but either way it's Stage 2.

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/3/17/11250306/a-refresher-course-on-the-nfls-drug-policy

 

[menobrown]

would be interested if anyone has the real facts

Don't have real facts but I looked this subject up a year or two ago, in relation to Bell. I'll see if I can find it again but what I recall was that he was in stage of the Substance Abuse Program where he could get out it with 2 clean years.

 

[Silver & Black]

It's all about the guaranteed money.  To me, Bell is a special player and the Steeler offense is absolutely dynamic with him in the backfield.  IMO, the Steelers should have paid a bit extra for him, given him a big chunk of guaranteed money and got him into camp a happy camper.  He's special and should get the guaranteed money he deserves.  I would have no problem with him sitting out the maximum number of games he needs to in and still be a free agent next year.  Just my two cents

 

[Hankmoody]

Here s a somewhat recent article, references him violating it twice so far

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/03/08/without-a-long-term-deal-when-will-steelers-leveon-bell-show-up-week-1-week-4-week-10/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.45807354b52c

here is a bit of a breakdown, not sure what stage he is in but with 2 violations I'd assume he is still in, and it looks to me if he gets busted for pot again (his drug of choice) it might be 10 games.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9218621/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-substance-abuse-policies-martavis-bryant-steelers

would be interested if anyone has the real facts

I'm sure he did.  First violation is 2 game fine, 2nd is 4 game fine, 3rd is a 4 game suspension.  He negotiated his 4 games down to three and also set himself up for a reduced future violation as well:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000687567/article/leveon-bells-suspension-reduced-to-three-games

As part of a settlement between the two parties, Bell will remain in his current stage of the substance-abuse program, Garafolo added. Staying in the same stage of the program means Bell's next suspension would also be four games, not 10.

Staying in his current stage also sets him up to be released from it after 24 months clean per the above.  I'm not sure when that 24 months starts though.  When the settlement was released?  The first day of his testing after the settlement?  The first day of testing after completing his suspension?  The likely latest it would be is after his suspension was completed, so likely by week 5 of this year he'll be out if he's not already.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I'm sure he did.  First violation is 2 game fine, 2nd is 4 game fine, 3rd is a 4 game suspension.  He negotiated his 4 games down to three and also set himself up for a reduced future violation as well:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000687567/article/leveon-bells-suspension-reduced-to-three-games

As part of a settlement between the two parties, Bell will remain in his current stage of the substance-abuse program, Garafolo added. Staying in the same stage of the program means Bell's next suspension would also be four games, not 10.

Staying in his current stage also sets him up to be released from it after 24 months clean per the above.  I'm not sure when that 24 months starts though.  When the settlement was released?  The first day of his testing after the settlement?  The first day of testing after completing his suspension?  The likely latest it would be is after his suspension was completed, so likely by week 5 of this year he'll be out if he's not already.

but correct me if I'm wrong here, he would get out of the program which basically means he'd be tested less but if he is busted again it is still 4 games right? never heard of it resetting or anything

 

[Hankmoody]

but correct me if I'm wrong here, he would get out of the program which basically means he'd be tested less but if he is busted again it is still 4 games right? never heard of it resetting or anything

Nope, if he's released from the Program he's treated as if he never violated.  That's kind of the definition of "released".

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Agents/2016SOAPolicy_v2.pdf page 15.

(e)
Completion of Stage Two
A Player who completes Stage Two without being advanced to Stage Three will be discharged from the Intervention Program, after which he will be afforded the same status as a Player who had never ... been referred to the Intervention Program.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Wasn't there also an appeal that Bell won regarding his last suspension?  If I recall he was pegged for missing a drug test, not for failing it, and he appealed that he only missed it because his phone number changed and he wasn't contacted at the correct number or something, and had the suspension reduced and not count as a failed test.  Going purely off memory here so I could be making all that up.

 

[Godsbrother]

It's all about the guaranteed money.  To me, Bell is a special player and the Steeler offense is absolutely dynamic with him in the backfield.  IMO, the Steelers should have paid a bit extra for him, given him a big chunk of guaranteed money and got him into camp a happy camper.  He's special and should get the guaranteed money he deserves.  I would have no problem with him sitting out the maximum number of games he needs to in and still be a free agent next year.  Just my two cents

The Steelers do not shell out a lot of guaranteed money beyond a season or two.  That is just not the way they do business.

Bell has every right to sit out as many games as he would like in 2018 but in doing so he'll be passing up $900k each week.  That is a lot of cash to leave on the table, especially if he suffers a serious injury when he gets back.   He is just going to have to weight the risk vs the reward + the desire to possibly win a championship.  He also needs to prove again that he is an elite back:  sitting out 8 or 9 games and then playing rusty for a few more isn't going to help when he starts shopping himself around next off season.

As a Steelers fan I don't fault him at all.  I wish both sides could have come to an agreement to a 3 or 4 year deal but I am glad the Steelers didn't overspend.  For one, the Steelers already have a ton of cap space invested in the offense.   They need to focus on improving the defense.

Secondly Bell has a lot of wear and I'm not sure how quickly he hits the wall.  We saw what happened to DeMarco Murray and I am not saying that is going to happen to Bell this year but another season or two of heavy workload could begin to take it's toll.

In the end it may be best for both player and team to part ways at the end of season.  

 

[Hankmoody]

Wasn't there also an appeal that Bell won regarding his last suspension?  If I recall he was pegged for missing a drug test, not for failing it, and he appealed that he only missed it because his phone number changed and he wasn't contacted at the correct number or something, and had the suspension reduced and not count as a failed test.  Going purely off memory here so I could be making all that up.

I referenced that appeal above.  Also there is no designation between a missed or failed test.  Both are violations.  The cell phone notification is why he got it reduced from 4 to 3 games and in the process didn't advance stages.  The cell phone thing was a small factor, but it's Bell's responsibility to make sure he's reachable and his cell phone isn't the only thing they notify so they basically split the difference with him.

 

[jtd13]

I don’t believe Adam Schefter changed his report. You keep believing that amateur Rapaport though. I won’t stop you.

I don't believe Adam Schefter said anything about guaranteed money, so the number he reported is useless. Also, I am with you on Rapaport. Not sure how you could read my post and take it any differently, but whatevs.

I'm mainly peaved that everyone took the first reported offer and ran with it to say what an idiot Bell was for not taking the deal. When literally the same guy retracted that saying it was a completely different offer, it barely gets mentioned. 

 

[Bojang0301]

I don't believe Adam Schefter said anything about guaranteed money, so the number he reported is useless. Also, I am with you on Rapaport. Not sure how you could read my post and take it any differently, but whatevs.

I'm mainly peaved that everyone took the first reported offer and ran with it to say what an idiot Bell was for not taking the deal. When literally the same guy retracted that saying it was a completely different offer, it barely gets mentioned. 

That’s fair. I don’t think we’ll ever know what the complete details are. If teams or agents get a chance to lie they do. I forget who it was that said it best but the only truth you get into how teams feel about players is the draft and free agency.

 

[Silver & Black]

The Steelers do not shell out a lot of guaranteed money beyond a season or two.  That is just not the way they do business.

Bell has every right to sit out as many games as he would like in 2018 but in doing so he'll be passing up $900k each week.  That is a lot of cash to leave on the table, especially if he suffers a serious injury when he gets back.   He is just going to have to weight the risk vs the reward + the desire to possibly win a championship.  He also needs to prove again that he is an elite back:  sitting out 8 or 9 games and then playing rusty for a few more isn't going to help when he starts shopping himself around next off season.

As a Steelers fan I don't fault him at all.  I wish both sides could have come to an agreement to a 3 or 4 year deal but I am glad the Steelers didn't overspend.  For one, the Steelers already have a ton of cap space invested in the offense.   They need to focus on improving the defense.

Secondly Bell has a lot of wear and I'm not sure how quickly he hits the wall.  We saw what happened to DeMarco Murray and I am not saying that is going to happen to Bell this year but another season or two of heavy workload could begin to take it's toll.

In the end it may be best for both player and team to part ways at the end of season.  

Very good post.  I don't disagree with anything you are saying, well, not exactly.  I'm not saying they should have broken the bank for him.  It sounds like the overall numbers weren't the issue, it was how much was going to be guaranteed.  I get how they do business and I respect it.  I'm simply saying it's not an ordinary situation.  He's been tagged two years in a row, and as you say, injuries are a huge part of being a RB.  He's a special, elite talent that raises the level of the entire offense when he is on the field.  I think Pitt could have found a way to give him more guaranteed money than they would have liked and less then Bell really wanted if they truly wanted him to stay.  I'm no Steeler fan, I just think he deserves it and it would have been the best for the team.

 

[Gopher State]

No RB’s are a dime a dozen

 

[msudaisy26]

Gurley just got 45 million in guarantees and 60 over 4 years. I bet if they offered that much to Bell in guarantees he would have taken it.

 

[msudaisy26]

Wow, this thread sure got quiet. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

So what's Bell's deal?

Drafts are starting.

Is he expected to play week 1 or  planning to hold out?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So what's Bell's deal?

Drafts are starting.

Is he expected to play week 1 or  planning to hold out?

I thought he said all along that the holdout was for camp and he would play in the regular season, though I could be imagining that.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I thought he said all along that the holdout was for camp and he would play in the regular season, though I could be imagining that.

A quick search says that but I didn't see anything less than a month old

 

[msudaisy26]

Still makes me laugh how all the people mad at Bell for not taking the Steelers offer got really really quiet after Gurley got his contract.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So what's Bell's deal?

Drafts are starting.

Is he expected to play week 1 or  planning to hold out?

He’ll come back a week before the season and play week 1 like last season. He said that was his plan.