Should the Yankees most recent championships (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Many people are insisting that the Patriots SB titles should now contain an asterisk for their indiscretions. To which I started this poll. So what about the Yankees? They won 4 titles from 96-00 and have been regular staples in the post season.

However, they have rostered a large contigent of players named in the Mitchell Report including Roger Clemens, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Andy Pettitte, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Denny Neagle, Randy Velarde, Mike Stanton, Ron Villone, Rondell White, Bobby Estalella, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Williams, and Hal Morris.

Certainly being named in the report does not prove anything (and who knows who else on the team might be a candidate for having utilized PEDs).

My question at this stage is whay aren't people clamoring that the Yankees titles should have asterisks next to their names as well? If they were utilizing players that were using HGH, steroids, and PEDs isn't that akin to cheating?

Some people will point to other teams doing similar things to what the Patriots did, referencing "well others were trying to accomplish the same thing to get a competitive advantage."

Yet I have not heard people suggesting that the Yankees should have to have the same scrutiny for fielding a team of potential juicers and/or HGH users. Certainly, one could argue that "everyone else in baseball was doing it."

On a base level of cheating is cheating, how are these two teams any different?

 

[Despyzer]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

 

[AnonymousBob]

Certainly being named in the report does not prove anything

 

[The Carnage]

Teams like the Orioles had as many current or former players in the report, yet they were at the opposite end of the winning spectrum. All individual records going back 15 years may now be suspect, but since it appears that a signifcant portion of the leagues starters were doing something, no team really had much of an advantage since any advantage was offset by the fact thet everyones opponent was juiced as well.

 

[cws3030]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

and pretty much every team had someone juicing too. heck how many orioles were in the mitchell report, didn't seem to help them any.

 

[greenroom]

Your kidding right?? I am not a Yankee fan at all, but unless your going to put your * on the whole MLB then you can not single out one MLB team for having juicers.

The problem with your logic is that only 1 NFL team has been caught cheating on spygate. As with the steroid era it has impacted the whole league. You may "think" that there are other teams that have commited the spygate crime, but until proven you can not just assume.

But good fishing trip???

 

[pillowpants]

 

[gman8343]

IBTM

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.

For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc.

in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.

Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

 

[jetpack]

Steelers and Rams didn't get a best of 7 series to overcome the possible advantage of a dirty tactic?

More seriously, maybe because the Pats cheat is seen as an organizational initiative, while the Yanks/MLB is more about individual players or player culture. I would imagine concepts of player turnover and movement in baseball have contributed to keeping the reputation of the Yanks as an "organization" above the scandal.

Seems like apples & oranges really.

 

[bigums]

Until 2002, steroids were not "illegal" in baseball and even then the policy was intentionally lax. For anybody. It ruins it for us, the fans, but the playing field was level and no baseball rules were broken.

At that point, your analogy really falls apart. Just deal with the fact that people had their noses rubbed in the "Patriot Nation" propaganda machine and LOVE seeing the mighty fall. Part of being the best (or on top) is that people like to kick you when you fall. Kind of like how everybody wanted to see the '72 Dolphins (and MM) have to eat thier words. Nobody talks smack when you suck.

 

[David Yudkin]

Until 2002, steroids were not "illegal" in baseball and even then the policy was intentionally lax. For anybody. It ruins it for us, the fans, but the playing field was level and no baseball rules were broken.At that point, your analogy really falls apart. Just deal with the fact that people had their noses rubbed in the "Patriot Nation" propaganda machine and LOVE seeing the mighty fall. Part of being the best (or on top) is that people like to kick you when you fall.

This is a common misconception. Steroids and PEDs were banned in the early 80s. So they both a) illegal and b) outlawed by the league. The reason baseball had so many problems is they had no drug policy with regard to testing and for penalties, so there was not a lot going on with regard to cleaning up the game at the time.

 

[David Yudkin]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

 

[Zoomanji]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

 

[FUBAR]

Until 2002, steroids were not "illegal" in baseball and even then the policy was intentionally lax. For anybody. It ruins it for us, the fans, but the playing field was level and no baseball rules were broken.

At that point, your analogy really falls apart. Just deal with the fact that people had their noses rubbed in the "Patriot Nation" propaganda machine and LOVE seeing the mighty fall. Part of being the best (or on top) is that people like to kick you when you fall.

This is a common misconception. Steroids and PEDs were banned in the early 80s. So they both a) illegal and b) outlawed by the league. The reason baseball had so many problems is they had no drug policy with regard to testing and for penalties, so there was not a lot going on with regard to cleaning up the game at the time.

Playing field was still level. If you can show where many other teams were also filming, then there's no need for a * (which I find overkilled anyway, but there's logic to it at least)

 

[David Yudkin]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

and pretty much every team had someone juicing too. heck how many orioles were in the mitchell report, didn't seem to help them any.

That's the part of the Spygate part that people again are overlooking. Teams have been taping and stealing signals for years . . . even decades. And prior to the Patriots people looked away as it was a common practice. Just like steroids in baseball. It was against the rules and no one cared.As been pointed out in almost all of the Spygate threads, the Pats tried the most to bend the rules and ultimately got caught. To be clear again I AM NOT CONDONING WHAT THE PATRIOTS ORGANIZATION DID.But is there THAT much difference in taping a coaches signals from the sidelines vs. the stands vs. the pressbox vs. having a guy taking pictures with a still camera? I understand the league took action against the Pats and to date have not done so against other teams and that is a huge distinction. But I still liken it to someone getting caught cheating on their taxes ang getting caught while others cheated less and did not get caught.As I stated initially, on the basic level of cheating, how is fielding a team of PED users not considered breaking the rules? What would happen in college baseball if a multi-time champion was found to have half a team of players that broke NCAA rules? Would they not be stripped of their titles?Sure, there may have been other MLB teams that had people using things that they shouldn't have, but if the Yankees had 15 guys juicing and the Roayls had two, is that a level playing field?Getting to the other Congressional topic of the moment, Roger Clemens is getting sent up the river for stuff that happen 6 or 7 years ago. And the net result will likely be nothing with regard to his team(s). Many people are arguing that what's done is done and the past is the past.Yet people are screaming that the NFL needs to redo history and strip away the Patriots outcomes universally due to cheating. In the Olympics, people caught using PEDs get their accomplishments stripped and their medals taken away. I find it intersting that all these sports and governing agencies have such a different outlook on how to regulate a universal problem.

 

[David Yudkin]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

I come off as a Pats fan because I live outside of Boston, know people affiliated with the team, and get a ton of Pats news (and little coverage of the other teams given how crazy people are here for the Pats).

 

[FUBAR]

Sure, there may have been other MLB teams that had people using things that they shouldn't have, but if the Yankees had 15 guys juicing and the Roayls had two, is that a level playing field?

Opportunity was equal, even if not the users. So yes, that's an even playing field.

Getting to the other Congressional topic of the moment, Roger Clemens is getting sent up the river for stuff that happen 6 or 7 years ago. And the net result will likely be nothing with regard to his team(s). Many people are arguing that what's done is done and the past is the past.Yet people are screaming that the NFL needs to redo history and strip away the Patriots outcomes universally due to cheating. In the Olympics, people caught using PEDs get their accomplishments stripped and their medals taken away. I find it intersting that all these sports and governing agencies have such a different outlook on how to regulate a universal problem.

FWIW, I agree. This seems to come down to fans wanting to save something they remember fondly from their childhood or just in the past. It's "cool" to hate BB, for whatever reason. Personally, I like the owner and QB and respect the HC - even if that respect is slightly tarnished.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

Amazing, the guy insists he isn't a Patriots fan, but every post remotely having to do with the Patriots is positive or defending them in some way.There's a river in Egypt, Yudkin. Do you know about it?

 

[MaddHatter]

The whole era can get an *.

 

[dirtyhalos]

wasn't a very large portion of the mitchell report based on information given by NY staff? that would explain the heavy NY connections in the report. i don't think the report was meant to be an all inclusive document on the extent of steroid use in MLB

it would be pretty naive to think that a probe into ANY mlb team wouldn't provide links to several players we don't want to believe were involved with this....

a similar probe into the nfl could and i would wager it would prove the pats are not alone in this rule violation

 

[jonessed]

This is a new low for admins

 

[brednbuddah]

Dave, I think you're a bit off base with this accusation.

yes, the Yankees have several players named on the Mitchell report.

However, of the big names you mention, only Clemens was with the Yankees during Championship seasons ('99, '00), Giambi and Sheffield were not. Pettitte claims his HGH use was to accelerate the healing process of an injury and refrained further use after he was healed.

The core Yankees during their run in the 90s were guys like Rivera, O'Neill, Jeter, Williams, Martinez, Posada, Brosius, Girardi, Leyritz, Boggs, Wells, Key, Cone, El Duque, Wetteland, etc... none of whom appear on the mitchell report

Other than Justice (who was basically a role player), Stanton and Knoblauch - the other guys you mentioned contributed little to none. It's safe to say the Yankees would've had the same success without Justice, Knoblauch or Stanton.

no disrepect Dave, but stick to fantasy football.

 

[Erin Go Bragh]

Why is a poll about a baseball team in the Sharkpool? You would think a moderator would know to place this in the free for all. Ah, just like the Patriots*, some feel they are above the rules.

 

[bigums]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

and pretty much every team had someone juicing too. heck how many orioles were in the mitchell report, didn't seem to help them any.

That's the part of the Spygate part that people again are overlooking. Teams have been taping and stealing signals for years . . . even decades. And prior to the Patriots people looked away as it was a common practice. Just like steroids in baseball. It was against the rules and no one cared.

You keep saying that but it's not true. Baseball had no official steroid policy prior to 2002. You can deny it all you want Dave to try keep your analogy intact, but it doesn't make it any less true. MLB had no official policy. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Yankees' last championship was in 2000.Evolution of Steroid Policy - halfway down

 

[BassNBrew]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

Amazing, the guy insists he isn't a Patriots fan, but every post remotely having to do with the Patriots is positive or defending them in some way.There's a river in Egypt, Yudkin. Do you know about it?

Yuds was the one guy around here that had me starting Morris on the right weeks. You guys can bash him but I'll take his info to the bank.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Why stop with the recent championships? Whitey Ford is an admitted spitballer who pitched in six Yankees World Series wins.

1950*, 1953*, 1956*, 1958*, 1961*, 1962*.

Now we just have to dig up some dirt on Dimaggio and the Babe and the Yankees will be forever wiped out from history.

 

[David Yudkin]

Baseball didn't really care about their players juicing at the time, so why should we?

and pretty much every team had someone juicing too. heck how many orioles were in the mitchell report, didn't seem to help them any.

That's the part of the Spygate part that people again are overlooking. Teams have been taping and stealing signals for years . . . even decades. And prior to the Patriots people looked away as it was a common practice. Just like steroids in baseball. It was against the rules and no one cared.

You keep saying that but it's not true. Baseball had no official steroid policy prior to 2002. You can deny it all you want Dave to try keep your analogy intact, but it doesn't make it any less true. MLB had no official policy. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Yankees' last championship was in 2000.Evolution of Steroid Policy - halfway down

Just because there was no official steroids policy does not mean that they were "legal" in the eyes of MLB. I concur that things escalated to the extent that they needed to make a formal steroids and PED policy in 2002, but they were still banned substances long before then. Here is what was in the Mitchell Report on pages 18 and 19:"Many have asserted that steroids and other performance enhancing substances were not banned in Major League Baseball before the 2002 Basic Agreement. That is not accurate. Beginning in 1971 and continuing today, Major League Baseball's drug policy has prohibited the use of any prescription medication without a valid prescription. By implication, this prohibition applied to steroids even before 1991, when Commissioner Fay Vincent first expressly included steroids in baseball's drug policy. Steroids have been listed as a prohibitive substance since then, although no player was disciplined for steroid use before the prohibition was added to the collective bargaining agreement in 2002.

It is also inaccurate to assert, as some have, that baseball's drug policy was not binding on players before it was added to the collective bargaining agreement. Many players were suspended for drug offenses before 2002, even though none of those suspensions related to the use of steroids or other performance enhancing substances. Some suspensions were reduced in grievance arbitrations brought by the Players Association, but no arbitrator ever has questioned the authority of the Commissioner to discipline players for "just cause" based on their possession, use, or distribution of prohibited drugs."

There's a bunch more on the history of MLB's drug policy contained in the Mitchell Report for those looking to beef up on MLB drug policy over the years. I can't link to it as it is only available in a PDF file (and I don't really want to retype 20 pages of historical references and citations).

It is clear that MLB opted not to pusue players that were using PEDs, but that doesn't mean that it could not have, just like (theoretically) Selig is within his right to reopen trangressions from seasons going back 10 years or more. I agree that it is mostly a pointless exercise as they can't undo things that have already happened, but they could still punish players by way of these rules if they really wanted to.

 

[Football_Guy]

How has no one brought up the Jets cheating? They were caught video taping the Patriot's playbook and both endzones.

But I guess like the Orioles, it doesn't matter if you don't win.

A) Everyone video tapes other teams in the NFL.

B) Steroids give a much larger advantage than video taping.

C) Unlike video taping, steroids are illegal by government law.

 

[GregR_2]

I don't think the Patriots SB's should be *'d just for the video taping of signals, though I do think their legacy is tainted. If they video taped the walk through, though, I'll likely change my mind.

But, if I did think they should be *'d for the signal taping, should the Yankees?

I don't see how the two equate. In one situation, the head coach knowingly decided his team should cheat and set the club's employees to do so. In the other, individual players cheated to further their careers, I'm assuming without the coach and/or GM being complicit.

If the Yankees set up an East Germanesque steroid program for the players, then I'd say they equate and sure, * the hell out of them. I don't care enough about baseball to have followed the steroid stuff in that detail, but I'm not aware of that having been the case. If that wasn't the case though, I don't see how individual players cheating equates to the steward of the organization deciding to cheat.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Baseball doesn't count. It simply doesn't matter.

As was previously stated, the entire entity of MLB gets an *. And it goes beyond just PEDs.

This is like comparing apples and granite bedrock. Thus the answer = NO.

 

[David Yudkin]

I don't think the Patriots SB's should be *'d just for the video taping of signals, though I do think their legacy is tainted. If they video taped the walk through, though, I'll likely change my mind.But, if I did think they should be *'d for the signal taping, should the Yankees?I don't see how the two equate. In one situation, the head coach knowingly decided his team should cheat and set the club's employees to do so. In the other, individual players cheated to further their careers, I'm assuming without the coach and/or GM being complicit.If the Yankees set up an East Germanesque steroid program for the players, then I'd say they equate and sure, * the hell out of them. I don't care enough about baseball to have followed the steroid stuff in that detail, but I'm not aware of that having been the case. If that wasn't the case though, I don't see how individual players cheating equates to the steward of the organization deciding to cheat.

This raises an interesting question . . .Which is more heinous:A team where the players potentially were unaware of the coaches breaking the rules and 53 guys went out and won games (when the coach was being duplicitous)- OR -A team where potentially half the players were breaking the rules and the coaching staff was not aware of the players breaking the rules(We certainly could debate for hours if not days who knew what and who didn't on both sides of the ledger on this one.)

 

[GregR_2]

I don't think the Patriots SB's should be *'d just for the video taping of signals, though I do think their legacy is tainted. If they video taped the walk through, though, I'll likely change my mind.

But, if I did think they should be *'d for the signal taping, should the Yankees?

I don't see how the two equate. In one situation, the head coach knowingly decided his team should cheat and set the club's employees to do so. In the other, individual players cheated to further their careers, I'm assuming without the coach and/or GM being complicit.

If the Yankees set up an East Germanesque steroid program for the players, then I'd say they equate and sure, * the hell out of them. I don't care enough about baseball to have followed the steroid stuff in that detail, but I'm not aware of that having been the case. If that wasn't the case though, I don't see how individual players cheating equates to the steward of the organization deciding to cheat.

This raises an interesting question . . .Which is more heinous:



A team where the players potentially were unaware of the coaches breaking the rules and 53 guys went out and won games (when the coach was being duplicitous)

- OR -

A team where potentially half the players were breaking the rules and the coaching staff was not aware of the players breaking the rules

(We certainly could debate for hours if not days who knew what and who didn't on both sides of the ledger on this one.)

It isn't even close. The team has a much greater responsibility for the integrity of the sport than do the individual players.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A team where the players potentially were unaware of the coaches breaking the rules and 53 guys went out and won games (when the coach was being duplicitous)

HAHAHAHAHA.You think the team stole signals... and that the Quarterback didn't have full working knowledge of everything associated with those signals?HAHAHAHAHA.

 

[krsone21]

Many people are insisting that the Patriots SB titles should now contain an asterisk for their indiscretions. To which I started this poll. So what about the Yankees? They won 4 titles from 96-00 and have been regular staples in the post season.However, they have rostered a large contigent of players named in the Mitchell Report including Roger Clemens, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Andy Pettitte, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Denny Neagle, Randy Velarde, Mike Stanton, Ron Villone, Rondell White, Bobby Estalella, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Williams, and Hal Morris.Certainly being named in the report does not prove anything (and who knows who else on the team might be a candidate for having utilized PEDs). My question at this stage is whay aren't people clamoring that the Yankees titles should have asterisks next to their names as well? If they were utilizing players that were using HGH, steroids, and PEDs isn't that akin to cheating?Some people will point to other teams doing similar things to what the Patriots did, referencing "well others were trying to accomplish the same thing to get a competitive advantage."Yet I have not heard people suggesting that the Yankees should have to have the same scrutiny for fielding a team of potential juicers and/or HGH users. Certainly, one could argue that "everyone else in baseball was doing it."On a base level of cheating is cheating, how are these two teams any different?

If this is the case than every team in the modern era should have an asterisk next to there world serious win. You would be hard pressed not to find one team that didn't have multiple players that didn't use steroids or HGH. So I voted no.

 

[Gandalf]

No. And I'm a diehard, lifelong Sox fan.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

Amazing, the guy insists he isn't a Patriots fan, but every post remotely having to do with the Patriots is positive or defending them in some way.There's a river in Egypt, Yudkin. Do you know about it?

Yuds was the one guy around here that had me starting Morris on the right weeks. You guys can bash him but I'll take his info to the bank.

who's bashing him? I thought he was a pats fan

 

[AsimoV]

This raises an interesting question . . .Which is more heinous:A team where the players potentially were unaware of the coaches breaking the rules and 53 guys went out and won games (when the coach was being duplicitous)- OR -A team where potentially half the players were breaking the rules and the coaching staff was not aware of the players breaking the rules(We certainly could debate for hours if not days who knew what and who didn't on both sides of the ledger on this one.)

What's more heinous...Cheating- OR -CheatingThe answer, of course, is cheating.Why does it matter which is MORE heinous? They're both wrong and bear absolutely no association with one another. I understand you saying that the baseball issue is more wide-spread and dangerous to the cheaters involved. I'd also say that the uproar over steroids is easily trumping the uproar over "spygate" (I hate typing that) in the department of public scrutiny.That doesn't excuse cheating, even to a lesser extent. I'm not saying that's the point you're driving at, but I could easily see others using your arguments to support that fallacious claim.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

1) Baseball doesn't matter. The day I equate the NFL with MLB is the day I stop watching.

2) Yankees players were juiced and facing players on other teams who were juiced. Seems like a lot fo folks were cheating in baseball. Do we have any evidence that other teams were taping when they played New England?

3) Even if both had an asterisk, it's worse for the Patriots. The Yankees have something like 26 world titles. All 26 aren't in question. Seems like all NE SB titles fall under this taping situation.

For the record, I'm not sure how much this taping thing matters. It's in the past and Goodell clearly tried to cover it up by destroying evidence. Worrying about it doesn't matter now. We'll never get all the info.

 

[Banger]

nice try

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Here is the problem with your Pats Dave.For years we have had the BS of "they play the right way", "they are a great team", "they earn it". etc etc. in their SB victories all by 3 points you cant tell me that stealing singals cant be worth 3 points in a close game.Your boys cheated, got caught and now you'll have to live with it.

They are not "my Pats". Everyone like to lump me in with the Pats lovers, but I have stated profusely over and over that I am a Cowboys fan.

funny you sure come off as a pats fan

:whoosh:Amazing, the guy insists he isn't a Patriots fan, but every post remotely having to do with the Patriots is positive or defending them in some way.There's a river in Egypt, Yudkin. Do you know about it?

The existence of David and others with their unbiased opinions in the Shark Pool brings no end of personal satisfaction to me, given the disconnect it creates in the brains of those who endlessly trash the Patriots for the equivalent of failing post-race inspection or pine-tarring a basedball bat.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

1) Baseball doesn't matter. The day I equate the NFL with MLB is the day I stop watching.

2) Yankees players were juiced and facing players on other teams who were juiced. Seems like a lot fo folks were cheating in baseball. Do we have any evidence that other teams were taping when they played New England?

3) Even if both had an asterisk, it's worse for the Patriots. The Yankees have something like 26 world titles. All 26 aren't in question. Seems like all NE SB titles fall under this taping situation.

For the record, I'm not sure how much this taping thing matters. It's in the past and Goodell clearly tried to cover it up by destroying evidence. Worrying about it doesn't matter now. We'll never get all the info.

So you're going to go with the "there's no proof what Goodell and a myriad of other Coaches have already acknowledged" argument?Seriously?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Pathetic. The one has nothing to do with the other. But in answer to your question people in a football site care more about football so less clamor here about baseball. Also its fine with me if they astericks the Yankees

Your logic would be fun in other arenas. "But Judge, its not as if I am the first person to rape, mutilate, and kill children. lighten up."

 

[KiddLattimer]

Yeah it's funny how many Yankees were named in the report, they must have REALLY been cheating bad, worse than any other team...

... OR the Director of the Boston Red Sox was doing the investigation.

One of the two

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I don't think the Patriots SB's should be *'d just for the video taping of signals, though I do think their legacy is tainted. If they video taped the walk through, though, I'll likely change my mind.

But, if I did think they should be *'d for the signal taping, should the Yankees?

I don't see how the two equate. In one situation, the head coach knowingly decided his team should cheat and set the club's employees to do so. In the other, individual players cheated to further their careers, I'm assuming without the coach and/or GM being complicit.

If the Yankees set up an East Germanesque steroid program for the players, then I'd say they equate and sure, * the hell out of them. I don't care enough about baseball to have followed the steroid stuff in that detail, but I'm not aware of that having been the case. If that wasn't the case though, I don't see how individual players cheating equates to the steward of the organization deciding to cheat.

Can I enfer from your comment that you place an asterisk next to the 70s Steelers Dynasty, which featured rampant steroids use on offensive and defensive lines?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I don't think the Patriots SB's should be *'d just for the video taping of signals, though I do think their legacy is tainted. If they video taped the walk through, though, I'll likely change my mind.

But, if I did think they should be *'d for the signal taping, should the Yankees?

I don't see how the two equate. In one situation, the head coach knowingly decided his team should cheat and set the club's employees to do so. In the other, individual players cheated to further their careers, I'm assuming without the coach and/or GM being complicit.

If the Yankees set up an East Germanesque steroid program for the players, then I'd say they equate and sure, * the hell out of them. I don't care enough about baseball to have followed the steroid stuff in that detail, but I'm not aware of that having been the case. If that wasn't the case though, I don't see how individual players cheating equates to the steward of the organization deciding to cheat.

Can I enfer from your comment that you place an asterisk next to the 70s Steelers Dynasty, which featured rampant steroids use on offensive and defensive lines?

Did they get caught and punished by the league?

 

[ImTheScientist]

Seems like Pats fan's can not let go.

 

[yellowdog]

Can we get this moved to the Baseball Forum ?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Can we get this moved to the Baseball Forum ?

Yudkin needs it here to provide some misdirection regarding the Patriots' cheating