SI.com article on the replacement referees (5 Viewers)

[Sam Quentin]

As soon as importnat game is swayed by one bad call

yes, beacause that has never happened before...

 

[Banemorth]

I hope the NFL sticks to their guns. I think the game will be better for it in the long run.

 

[Shutout]

Personally, I think there is something to be said for the real refs based on the strong emphasis of “safety”, but outside that, I don’t see much leverage.

Just hypothetically... do you think it would be easier for a big gambler to convince a veteran NFL referee to make a bad call or two in a critical situation to swing the game in their favor, or to do the same with a former Lingerie league referee who knows he may be without a paycheck again as soon as next week?Also, I respect everyone's view, but frankly I'm stunned at the reaction over this. Wait until you're playing against Calvin Johnson, and he hauls in a 60-yard TD pass to beat you in your fantasy game. Then on the replay, you see that the left tackle MUGGED the defensive end, and the referee blew an easy holding call.Maybe then you'll be pissed. Or if the same thing happens and it cost you money on a bet.People tend to not care about things until they impact you personally. There will be a HUGE controversy (or four) in week 1. I guarantee it.

Bingo! Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Sabertooth]

I hope the NFL sticks to their guns. I think the game will be better for it in the long run.

How?

 

[Shutout]

All this talk about safety is a canard. How many guys have gotten injured in the preseason because of replacement refs?

This is the biggest BS arguement I've heard in a long time. WTF do refs have to do with injuries??? The ref isn't going to prevent an injury from happening.

Lomas Brown disagrees with you. He just said on First Take that this is a huge issue which will result in more injurues, because the guys in the trenches get away with all sorts of dirty shots as it is. Now, Brown says, they will keep pushing the limits further and further to see what they can get away with.

Exactly. Refs who are not as trained can miss players getting chop blocked, clipped, etc. they can be out of position and miss a player getting away with something that is not normally called. They are more prone to miss illegal hits, etc. the Refs ARE a huge part of the game and what makes them so good is the less you notice them, the more likely it is they are doing a good job.

 

[Raider Nation]

I should have added a poll. Not gonna bother now. Seems like about 75% of you are with the NFL on this.

I'm amazed that a board full of hardcore, intelligent football fans view this as no big deal. Amazed.

 

[BassNBrew]

Three questions for you RN...

1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?

2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?

3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?

This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

 

[BassNBrew]

All this talk about safety is a canard. How many guys have gotten injured in the preseason because of replacement refs?

This is the biggest BS arguement I've heard in a long time. WTF do refs have to do with injuries??? The ref isn't going to prevent an injury from happening.

Lomas Brown disagrees with you. He just said on First Take that this is a huge issue which will result in more injurues, because the guys in the trenches get away with all sorts of dirty shots as it is. Now, Brown says, they will keep pushing the limits further and further to see what they can get away with.

Exactly. Refs who are not as trained can miss players getting chop blocked, clipped, etc. they can be out of position and miss a player getting away with something that is not normally called. They are more prone to miss illegal hits, etc. the Refs ARE a huge part of the game and what makes them so good is the less you notice them, the more likely it is they are doing a good job.

And refs working their craft 365 days a year rather than running a law firm would be even better trained and in better position.

 

[Shutout]

Also, I respect everyone's view, but frankly I'm stunned at the reaction over this. Wait until you're playing against Calvin Johnson, and he hauls in a 60-yard TD pass to beat you in your fantasy game. Then on the replay, you see that the left tackle MUGGED the defensive end, and the referee blew an easy holding call.

Happens all the time with regular refs.

Because of a pay off?

No, because they accidently miss a call. If you are arguing about a replacement ref being payed off, you are seriously

Yes, a referee accepting money to influence the outcome is an impossibility.

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue (though my initial reaction is that the the NFLRA folk need to be thankful about such a nice part-time gig and get back to work), but I don't see the payoffs as a huge concern.Obviously, it could happen.

But I don't think the chances of it dramatically increase.

These guys now have a real opportunity to advance their career and they will be scrutinized very heavily. I also assume they are getting a nice pay bump over their old job (though I'm sure not as much as the current/former refs).

Plus, if these guys were looking for some gambling payouts, why wouldn't they stay under the radar in DIII? Doesn't that make more sense than running their game in the NFL, which has far more eyeballs?

I think you could certainly argue that it's the refs with more professional security and union protection that would be the bigger concern.

We certainly know these guys aren't satisfied with their current compensation.

I have no idea what's going on with these guys, but you could make the case both ways, I think.

If I'm looking to flip a dirty ref, I'm not looking for the wet behind the ears kid trying to impress his bosses, probably doesn't know how to do it without getting caught, and might see his career ended over some bad calls.

I'm looking for the old vet that knows how things work, is beyond reproach, and isn't satisfied his current pay status. There's a decent chance that there's already a well-respected NFL ref that's been dirty for years.

Oh NO my friend. These guys are considered SCABS to the NFLRA and their chances of ever being worked up to the NFL are DEAD to them. These guys are traitors in the eyes of the NFLRA.How much big money do you see being gambled on DIII vs. NFL. Reffing at the NFL level gives you much more opportunity to swing something that people gamble more on.

 

[Raider Nation]

Three questions for you RN...1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

Bass, it's obvious you don't appreciate the work that goes into being an NFL referee, and I don't feel like arguing with you because neither of us will budge. These guys are studying rules and reviewing film every day during the season, and most days during the offseason. Just because they have other jobs doesn't mean they don't take time to be the best referees they can be. Have you ever managed to hold two (or three) jobs at once? How about holding a full-time job as well as going to school? People do it every day.

 

[BassNBrew]

How much big money do you see being gambled on DIII vs. NFL. Reffing at the NFL level gives you much more opportunity to swing something that people gamble more on.

You do realize that people go to jail for doing things like this.

 

[jojoh07]

lol im with nfl on this

old refs need a nice ego check

 

[CurlyDumps]

There was a terrible call made on the last play of the Giants-Pats game last night. A Giants DB running downfield with a Pats receiver intercepted the ball on the half yard line. Obviously his momentum carried him into the endzone. Refs spotted the ball on the 1/2 yard line instead of giving him the touchback. Meaningless game, but an utterly embarrassing mistake. I mean come on.

 

[DiStefano]

If you're a player, do you want to say: "The refs don't make any difference" and paint a great big target on your back? Or do you want to say: "Geez, we need these highly competent professional refs, who keep us safe from harm and tuck us into bed at night".

Just like contributing to the State Patrolmen's Association, and putting a sticker on the back of your car. Maybe it won't help, but it sure won't hurt.

 

[Raider Nation]

Some tweets over the past few weeks from Tim Ryan. Tim played for defensive line for the Bears in the early 90s. He currently calls games on FOX and works for Sirius NFL Radio, and he attended referee camps (going through the exact same schooling the refs do) for a few years. He is about as qualified to speak to this as anyone could be.

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99With all due respect the replacement refs are WAY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99The scab refs are garbage.They have no chance to get it right. Not qualified!! Players must pressure NFL and NFLRA to find a solution

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99The replacement officials are brutally bad so far. They've got no chance to get calls and enforcement correct. In way over their head.

https://twitter.com/TimRyan99

 

[Raider Nation]

If you're a player, do you want to say: "The refs don't make any difference" and paint a great big target on your back? Or do you want to say: "Geez, we need these highly competent professional refs, who keep us safe from harm and tuck us into bed at night".

Ridiculous analogy of the week award.

 

[BassNBrew]

Three questions for you RN...1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

Bass, it's obvious you don't appreciate the work that goes into being an NFL referee, and I don't feel like arguing with you because neither of us will budge. These guys are studying rules and reviewing film every day during the season, and most days during the offseason. Just because they have other jobs doesn't mean they don't take time to be the best referees they can be. Have you ever managed to hold two (or three) jobs at once? How about holding a full-time job as well as going to school? People do it every day.

Do you appreciate what goes into becoming a teacher, engineer, etc? Seriously, could you not put in the work and do that job (ref) if the opportunity was open to you?I had two full time jobs once and was taking thermodynamics at the same time. Let's just say my job performance at both places suffered and my C in thermo wasn't from studying to much. Are you going to argue that full time refs couldn't be better than the current refs?I'll give you replacement ref < regular refs, but the NFL would prefer regular refs < full time refs.

 

[DiStefano]

If you're a player, do you want to say: "The refs don't make any difference" and paint a great big target on your back? Or do you want to say: "Geez, we need these highly competent professional refs, who keep us safe from harm and tuck us into bed at night".

Ridiculous analogy of the week award.

Well just because your sister is married to one of those refs, and your girlfriend's brother is a ref, is no reason for you to go charging into battle, tilting at windmills. You must have 50 posts on this already. Cool it. Life will go on. People won't starve.

 

[Raider Nation]

If you're a player, do you want to say: "The refs don't make any difference" and paint a great big target on your back? Or do you want to say: "Geez, we need these highly competent professional refs, who keep us safe from harm and tuck us into bed at night".

Ridiculous analogy of the week award.

Well just because your sister is married to one of those refs, and your girlfriend's brother is a ref, is no reason for you to go charging into battle, tilting at windmills. You must have 50 posts on this already. Cool it. Life will go on. People won't starve.

Not any better.

 

[BassNBrew]

Some tweets over the past few weeks from Tim Ryan. Tim played for defensive line for the Bears in the early 90s. He currently calls games on FOX and works for Sirius NFL Radio, and he attended referee camps (going through the exact same schooling the refs do) for a few years. He is about as qualified to speak to this as anyone could be.

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99With all due respect the replacement refs are WAY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99The scab refs are garbage.They have no chance to get it right. Not qualified!! Players must pressure NFL and NFLRA to find a solution

Tim Ryan ‏@TimRyan99The replacement officials are brutally bad so far. They've got no chance to get calls and enforcement correct. In way over their head.

https://twitter.com/TimRyan99

I'm sure if the players picked up the difference it would be settled.

 

[Shutout]

All this talk about safety is a canard. How many guys have gotten injured in the preseason because of replacement refs?

This is the biggest BS arguement I've heard in a long time. WTF do refs have to do with injuries??? The ref isn't going to prevent an injury from happening.

Lomas Brown disagrees with you. He just said on First Take that this is a huge issue which will result in more injurues, because the guys in the trenches get away with all sorts of dirty shots as it is. Now, Brown says, they will keep pushing the limits further and further to see what they can get away with.

Exactly. Refs who are not as trained can miss players getting chop blocked, clipped, etc. they can be out of position and miss a player getting away with something that is not normally called. They are more prone to miss illegal hits, etc. the Refs ARE a huge part of the game and what makes them so good is the less you notice them, the more likely it is they are doing a good job.

And refs working their craft 365 days a year rather than running a law firm would be even better trained and in better position.

have you read the articles and listened to the 1st hand accounts? Its not the same thing. For one thing, the regular refs devote a TON of time to this..its not just fly to the hotel on Saturday and wait for the game. Go back and read what their regiment is.And secondly, there is a HUGE difference between reffing a game on a lower level than the NFL. Is it not OBVIOUS to you how many things these guys are getting wrong?One ref who was a rookie ref in the NFL last year said the thing you don't think of until you get here is the speed and size of these guys. Things he used to be able to do and see go by in a blur on this level. You can't put it in a vacuum and just assume that its the same thing. Its not any more similar than a guy that repairs a lawn mower being able to work on your mercedes. Its completely different.

 

[Shutout]

A place where this might REALLY start causing some controversy is with the networks and advertisers.

These replacements are extending the game. They are running long because of all the stop in play and dead time trying to figure out calls. That is fine in pre-season, but when the schedule kicks off next week and the networks have time slots for doubleheaders and such, you might get some people with deep pockets involved.

 

[CrazyFox]

not a single current Football Bowl Subdivision official can be found among the 136 replacements signed and prepped by the NFL. Instead, the league staffed up by drawing from the high school ranks and lower divisions, including some officials who had retired or been dismissed.

 

[Raider Nation]

not a single current Football Bowl Subdivision official can be found among the 136 replacements signed and prepped by the NFL. Instead, the league staffed up by drawing from the high school ranks and lower divisions, including some officials who had retired or been dismissed.

RIGHT?Why are people not getting this?

 

[Snotbubbles]

Three questions for you RN...1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

Bass, it's obvious you don't appreciate the work that goes into being an NFL referee, and I don't feel like arguing with you because neither of us will budge. These guys are studying rules and reviewing film every day during the season, and most days during the offseason. Just because they have other jobs doesn't mean they don't take time to be the best referees they can be. Have you ever managed to hold two (or three) jobs at once? How about holding a full-time job as well as going to school? People do it every day.

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

 

[Raider Nation]

A place where this might REALLY start causing some controversy is with the networks and advertisers.These replacements are extending the game. They are running long because of all the stop in play and dead time trying to figure out calls. That is fine in pre-season, but when the schedule kicks off next week and the networks have time slots for doubleheaders and such, you might get some people with deep pockets involved.

I can't wait to see how thrilled Jim Harbaugh and Belichick are when they are forced to burn their first two challenge flags due to sheer incompetence.

 

[CrazyFox]

not a single current Football Bowl Subdivision official can be found among the 136 replacements signed and prepped by the NFL. Instead, the league staffed up by drawing from the high school ranks and lower divisions, including some officials who had retired or been dismissed.

RIGHT?Why are people not getting this?

Probably most didn't read. And it doesn't seem like a big deal now cause it's the preseason. But come Sept when all the hardcore fans are rooting for their teams, and their fantasy players, and the teams they placed bets on....people are going to get fed up with it pretty quick if it looks as bad as it sounds like it could.

 

[Raider Nation]

Three questions for you RN...

1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?

2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?

3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?

This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

Bass, it's obvious you don't appreciate the work that goes into being an NFL referee, and I don't feel like arguing with you because neither of us will budge. These guys are studying rules and reviewing film every day during the season, and most days during the offseason. Just because they have other jobs doesn't mean they don't take time to be the best referees they can be. Have you ever managed to hold two (or three) jobs at once? How about holding a full-time job as well as going to school? People do it every day.

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

A few games? How about maybe never. What makes you think these guys have the capacity to learn at this level? Many of them were released from ridiculously low levels of football.

 

[BassNBrew]

have you read the articles and listened to the 1st hand accounts? Its not the same thing. For one thing, the regular refs devote a TON of time to this..its not just fly to the hotel on Saturday and wait for the game. Go back and read what their regiment is.And secondly, there is a HUGE difference between reffing a game on a lower level than the NFL. Is it not OBVIOUS to you how many things these guys are getting wrong?One ref who was a rookie ref in the NFL last year said the thing you don't think of until you get here is the speed and size of these guys. Things he used to be able to do and see go by in a blur on this level. You can't put it in a vacuum and just assume that its the same thing. Its not any more similar than a guy that repairs a lawn mower being able to work on your mercedes. Its completely different.

Yes, I understand it's more than just showing up for a game. However I do know there are x numbers of hours in a day and any time you're spending running you law or property mgmt firm is time that could be spent learning or on fitness.So did that rookie ref adapt? Wouldn't most of us be able to adapt over time? Given enough time, the guy working on the lawn could learn how to work on your Mercedes. If the Mercedes guy also mowed laws on the side and the lawn mower guy didn't, the lower mower guy would have more time to hone his Mercedes skills and might end up being the better mechanic.

 

[CrazyFox]

I think some people also underestimate the job. I don't think it's a job that anyone could do just by spending a few years studying. It's an intense high pressure job. I don't think I could ever do it, or would want to.

 

[Snotbubbles]

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

A few games? How about maybe never. What makes you think these guys have the capacity to learn at this level? Many of them were released from ridiculously low levels of football.

Yeah and Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

it doesn't seem like a big deal now cause it's the preseason. But come Sept when all the hardcore fans are rooting for their teams, and their fantasy players, and the teams they placed bets on....people are going to get fed up with it pretty quick if it looks as bad as it sounds like it could.

The tv guys have not been soft on them either, there will be a lot of pissed people.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think some people also underestimate the job. I don't think it's a job that anyone could do just by spending a few years studying. It's an intense high pressure job. I don't think I could ever do it, or would want to.

That poor guy stumbling through his calls last night was tough to watch. OTOH, he wanted the job.(I edited the link in the OP. It's now Deadspin's clip, which is a much better version than what I posted last night)

 

[Raider Nation]

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

A few games? How about maybe never. What makes you think these guys have the capacity to learn at this level? Many of them were released from ridiculously low levels of football.

Yeah and Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team.

Well that's definitely apples-to-apples.

 

[Hoss Style]

I don't think the refs are underpaid. I'm a fan of labor unions as a way of working class people fighting unfair or unsafe treatment by employers. Not a big fan of unions being used by people who already have a good work environment and fair compensation to carve every cent out of a company that they can.

 

[renesauz]

Personally, I think there is something to be said for the real refs based on the strong emphasis of “safety”, but outside that, I don’t see much leverage.

Just hypothetically... do you think it would be easier for a big gambler to convince a veteran NFL referee to make a bad call or two in a critical situation to swing the game in their favor, or to do the same with a former Lingerie league referee who knows he may be without a paycheck again as soon as next week?Also, I respect everyone's view, but frankly I'm stunned at the reaction over this. Wait until you're playing against Calvin Johnson, and he hauls in a 60-yard TD pass to beat you in your fantasy game. Then on the replay, you see that the left tackle MUGGED the defensive end, and the referee blew an easy holding call.Maybe then you'll be pissed. Or if the same thing happens and it cost you money on a bet.People tend to not care about things until they impact you personally. There will be a HUGE controversy (or four) in week 1. I guarantee it.

Don't misunderstand...nobody here WANTS replacement refs. We all WANT the normal refs back. The difference is that many of us favor the NFL's viewpoint on this one, and we're willing to deal with a season of sub-par officiating if that's what it takes.

 

[Raider Nation]

Personally, I think there is something to be said for the real refs based on the strong emphasis of “safety”, but outside that, I don’t see much leverage.

Just hypothetically... do you think it would be easier for a big gambler to convince a veteran NFL referee to make a bad call or two in a critical situation to swing the game in their favor, or to do the same with a former Lingerie league referee who knows he may be without a paycheck again as soon as next week?Also, I respect everyone's view, but frankly I'm stunned at the reaction over this. Wait until you're playing against Calvin Johnson, and he hauls in a 60-yard TD pass to beat you in your fantasy game. Then on the replay, you see that the left tackle MUGGED the defensive end, and the referee blew an easy holding call.Maybe then you'll be pissed. Or if the same thing happens and it cost you money on a bet.People tend to not care about things until they impact you personally. There will be a HUGE controversy (or four) in week 1. I guarantee it.

Don't misunderstand...nobody here WANTS replacement refs. We all WANT the normal refs back. The difference is that many of us favor the NFL's viewpoint on this one, and we're willing to deal with a season of sub-par officiating if that's what it takes.

I understand completely. I just think it's a catastrophe waiting to happen.

 

[Snotbubbles]

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

A few games? How about maybe never. What makes you think these guys have the capacity to learn at this level? Many of them were released from ridiculously low levels of football.

Yeah and Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team.

Well that's definitely apples-to-apples.

LOL!I wasn't saying that these particular referees could/would learn. But you could definitely get a group of officials that could/would do the job with the right training and as full time officials, eventually be better than the refs of the NFLRA.

You can't seriously be satisfied with the referees in the NFLRA. They are like the tallest midgets at the circus. What's worse is that they don't want to commit to the NFL to become full-time employees and better themselves. That is scary. Is Hochuli's law firm more important? If so, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya Ed.

Heres a little article on how great the refs of the NFLRA are: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-09-15-hochuli_N.htm

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones wasn't surprised that Hochuli was involved.

"That particular official gets a lot of criticism. He's a highly criticized official in the NFL," Jones said.

 

[renesauz]

Fine, don't listen to me. I'm a message board goon just like the rest of you.

Listen to the guys who play/played the game. Lomas Brown's quote is above, and now Boomer Esiason:

“It’s ridiculous,” said Esiason. “It is ridiculous that the NFL is going to allow replacement officials on the field (in the regular season).”

So...the NFL is supposed to just give in and give them whatever they want? Got it.

 

[BassNBrew]

Personally, I think there is something to be said for the real refs based on the strong emphasis of “safety”, but outside that, I don’t see much leverage.

Just hypothetically... do you think it would be easier for a big gambler to convince a veteran NFL referee to make a bad call or two in a critical situation to swing the game in their favor, or to do the same with a former Lingerie league referee who knows he may be without a paycheck again as soon as next week?Also, I respect everyone's view, but frankly I'm stunned at the reaction over this. Wait until you're playing against Calvin Johnson, and he hauls in a 60-yard TD pass to beat you in your fantasy game. Then on the replay, you see that the left tackle MUGGED the defensive end, and the referee blew an easy holding call.Maybe then you'll be pissed. Or if the same thing happens and it cost you money on a bet.People tend to not care about things until they impact you personally. There will be a HUGE controversy (or four) in week 1. I guarantee it.

Don't misunderstand...nobody here WANTS replacement refs. We all WANT the normal refs back. The difference is that many of us favor the NFL's viewpoint on this one, and we're willing to deal with a season of sub-par officiating if that's what it takes.

I understand completely. I just think it's a catastrophe waiting to happen.

I agree with you to an extent, but many companies have to take a step back to move forward in the longer term.

 

[Raider Nation]

Fine, don't listen to me. I'm a message board goon just like the rest of you.

Listen to the guys who play/played the game. Lomas Brown's quote is above, and now Boomer Esiason:

“It’s ridiculous,” said Esiason. “It is ridiculous that the NFL is going to allow replacement officials on the field (in the regular season).”

So...the NFL is supposed to just give in and give them whatever they want? Got it.

There are negotiations in life. The league appears unwilling to budge an inch.

 

[BassNBrew]

I think some people also underestimate the job. I don't think it's a job that anyone could do just by spending a few years studying. It's an intense high pressure job. I don't think I could ever do it, or would want to.

NFL ref-ing would be a cake job. Now the NBA I would want no part of. Baseball wouldn't be bad if you could stay awake in the field and not get hit in the nads when behind the plate.

 

[BassNBrew]

Fine, don't listen to me. I'm a message board goon just like the rest of you.

Listen to the guys who play/played the game. Lomas Brown's quote is above, and now Boomer Esiason:

“It’s ridiculous,” said Esiason. “It is ridiculous that the NFL is going to allow replacement officials on the field (in the regular season).”

So...the NFL is supposed to just give in and give them whatever they want? Got it.

There are negotiations in life. The league appears unwilling to budge an inch.

A 5-11% pay raise per year isn't giving an inch?

 

[renesauz]

I should have added a poll. Not gonna bother now. Seems like about 75% of you are with the NFL on this.

I'm amazed that a board full of hardcore, intelligent football fans view this as no big deal. Amazed.

Being on the NFL's side <> "No big deal".It is a big deal. The replacements aren't as good, they're gonna screw up, and they'll probably change the outcome of a game or two. Noting that this is a big deal does not mean that the NFL should simply give in.

But they'll get better. If this drags on past the season, the NFL will recruit better refs. The damage won't be long term. I believe in most of what the NFL wants on this matter, and I'm perfectly OK with them saying take it or leave it to these guys on most of these things.

 

[Hoss Style]

Three questions for you RN...

1) In your lifetime could you raise enough capital to buy an NFL team?

2) Could you ever develop the skills to replace Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, or Chris Johnson?

3) Could you given four years of training ref on an NFL crew and basically go unnoticed as the current guys do?

This is basically like the peanut vendors demanding a raise 2-3X more than the cost of living increases for the next 7 years because they know their way around the stadium better than a replacement peanut vendor. The fans will be pissed when their peanuts aren't there when they want them, but they'll get over it. Heck, one could argue that an elite beer vendor who can a pour beer faster than the average person brings more physical skills to the table than the refs.

Bass, it's obvious you don't appreciate the work that goes into being an NFL referee, and I don't feel like arguing with you because neither of us will budge. These guys are studying rules and reviewing film every day during the season, and most days during the offseason. Just because they have other jobs doesn't mean they don't take time to be the best referees they can be. Have you ever managed to hold two (or three) jobs at once? How about holding a full-time job as well as going to school? People do it every day.

RN, you're missing his point. The NFL referee's don't have any specialized skill. So ANYBODY after a certain amount of studying and experience could do just a good a job as any current member of the NFLRA. In fact, a referee whose sole profession is to study and perfect being an NFL referee would, in the long run, do a BETTER job than the part-time referees of the NFLRA who don't want to become full-time employees and perfect their craft. The current members of the NFLRA are the best of their profession, but they can be better. Why not become full-time referees and be the best that they can be? I think the NFL is right to want them to do this. If that means that they have to go a few games of the 2012 NFL season with less than adequate referees to get these buffoons to realize this, then so be it.

I know I just quoted and kind of agreed with the NFL right before this post - but I can't get on board with the opinion of "Well, anyone could do the ref's job!"

No. They couldn't.

I know guy who can't talk in front of a crowd of more than 10 people without breaking out in a cold sweat. I've worked with people who get frazzled and can't focus if more than 2 things are thrown at them at the same time. I went to school with people who studied 3 times as much as most others and still couldn't remember half of what the others did. Hell, I know people who don't have the mental focus or intelligence to even do a basic task -

much less memorize thousands of rules and guidelines and then apply them in a real world situation with humans moving at 10 times the speed of everyday life and then come to a conclusion while being watched live by 50,000 screaming people and a billion on TV. (run on sentence intended)

No. Definately. Not everyone can do that. Not even close. They could eventually find replacements that would work at the same level, or even higher, than the previous refs - but it'd be a heck of a lot harder and take much longer than many here may think.

 

[Raider Nation]

NFL ref-ing would be a cake job.

Maybe... maybe the back judge. That's the 3rd base umpire of the NFL.The rest of them are highly stressed, particularly the umpire and head referee.

 

[Dismattle]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/either-the-replacement-refs-are-trolling-us-hard-or-were-all-screwed/

Id suggest watching video, before commenting on the subject. Then feel free to add your thoughts concerning Coach's throwin a flag, or how much you think most of these ref's really know (some plays do not come up that often) imo Raider is just letting us know its broke.

Now we may see some calls, that should be called, but wouldnt be called, w the real Ref's (thats only positive)

Honestly some games run smooth, makes me believe the officials just go thru motions (like I could even do it). Obviously some games dont, we sometimes see experts w/ ample time to review plays (days later) judge how a play should have been called. It will get old real fast, seeing too much of this (imo)

p.s. I could see a Coach throwin a flag on some play/call (ref not knowin if its even allowed) so there could be some safety valve. But then what? Ref listen to the Coach, ie how to make the call? I dont expect the other team to say "yeah the guys right; eject my best player" LOL

 

[CrazyFox]

I know I just quoted and kind of agreed with the NFL right before this post - but I can't get on board with the opinion of "Well, anyone could do the ref's job!"

No. They couldn't.

I know guy who can't talk in front of a crowd of more than 10 people without breaking out in a cold sweat. I've worked with people who get frazzled and can't focus if more than 2 things are thrown at them at the same time. I went to school with people who studied 3 times as much as most others and still couldn't remember half of what the others did. Hell, I know people who don't have the mental focus or intelligence to even do a basic task -

much less memorize thousands of rules and situations and then apply them in a real world situation with humans moving at 10 times the speed of everyday life and then come to a conclusion while being watched live by 50,000 screaming people and a billion on TV. (run on sentence intended)

No. Definately. Not everyone can do that. Not even close. They could eventually find replacements that would work at the same level, or even higher, than the previous refs - but it'd be a heck of a lot harder and take much longer than many here may think.

 

[Raider Nation]

Fine, don't listen to me. I'm a message board goon just like the rest of you.

Listen to the guys who play/played the game. Lomas Brown's quote is above, and now Boomer Esiason:

“It’s ridiculous,” said Esiason. “It is ridiculous that the NFL is going to allow replacement officials on the field (in the regular season).”

So...the NFL is supposed to just give in and give them whatever they want? Got it.

There are negotiations in life. The league appears unwilling to budge an inch.

A 5-11% pay raise per year isn't giving an inch?

Probably the least important issue on the table.

 

[renesauz]

I understand completely. I just think it's a catastrophe waiting to happen.

And I think you're over-estimating the size of that catastrophe. It's a nasty spring thunderstorm, not a CAT 5 hurricane. There will be problems for sure, and we're ALL gonna get frustrated with these yahoos, but that doesn't make the NFL completely wrong in their stance.