I'm so sick and tired of hearing every year that the NFL is racist. Every year I have to throw up after I read articles like this and other journalists are too scared to disagree. Are the Packers not allowed to hire a former quarterbacks coach of Brett Favre because that would be racist? Are the Jets racist for hiring the coach that their BLACK cornerback (Ty Law) begged them to? Can Matt Millen not hire anybody from the Tampa Bay defensive staff in order to not be racist? Are the Saints not allowed to hire an offensive guy in order to not be racist? The NFL must be racist because it took Romeo Crennel so long to get a job. Lets all just ignore the fact that it took Charlie Weis just as long to leave New England, and he didn't get any NFL offers at all before he interviewed at Notre Dame. Its not like white guys have it easy too. I'm just so sick and tired of minority groups crying racist whenever something doesn't perfectly go their way.
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sick and tired of hearing that the NFL is racist (1 Viewer)
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thesurfshop19
Footballguy
I think you may have some good points in there (hard to find) ... but it's hard to deny that in the past great black candidates have had trouble landing job opportunities, let alone actual head coaching jobs.
This year may not be the step backwards that some are asserting: blacks are now getting legitimate shots at landing more head coaching jobs so it's a step in the right direction.
But I don't think anyone can legitimately say that there wasn't a problem in the past, with the "old boy" network forcing minority coaches to be almost ridiculously overqualified to even get a call.
This year may not be the step backwards that some are asserting: blacks are now getting legitimate shots at landing more head coaching jobs so it's a step in the right direction.
But I don't think anyone can legitimately say that there wasn't a problem in the past, with the "old boy" network forcing minority coaches to be almost ridiculously overqualified to even get a call.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
M
MLBrandow
Guest
Anyone who says the NFL is racist should be hanged.
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
I'm not sure if you're arguing the same side of the issue with me or just clarifying exactly what I already clarified.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
The problem before was, white coaches with bad track records were getting 2nd and 3rd chances at HC jobs when minorities couldn't even get a 1st chance. The fact that guys like Herm Edwards and Tony Dungy are getting immediate second chances is a good sign.
I wouldn't be all too upset about the results of this year. The more coveted black assistants had gotten scooped up in previous years (Lovie, Crenell, Lewis).
If Kubiak, Saunders and Childress had been black, I don't think they'd have had any problem finding jobs this year. It just turns out that this years crop of coveted assistants were white. No big deal. Maurice Carthon's stock had to have gone up with the improvements the Browns had on offense this year and I'm sure a couple other guys will be in that position soon also.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Yes, I'm sure any guys in charge of hiring 10 years ago that were racist, suddenly stopped being racist.
Muahahaha
Footballguy
IMO, they are both not where they should be, but if they are upset with the NFL, they should be livid with college football, where only 3% of the head coaches are black.Does anybody know what percentage of NFL position coaches (i.e. no just head coaches) are black? Is it hard to attract minorities to coaching in general?
nightshift
Footballguy
Then stop bringin' it up!
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
I think part of the question jumps to mind when you consider where most of these guys were just last year. The Offensive Coordinator for the 49ers whose teachings were so impressed upon Alex Smith that he threw 0 TDs? An interim coach from a lousy team who has a very sketchy tenure with the Bears save for one year? I'm blanking on some of the others but this crew of year one coaches isn't exactly, um, impressive. Fair or not, it's part of what brings the criticism.To be fair, Herm's last year at the Jets really falls into this category as well.In a strange way, as a Bengals fan, I've benefited from this attitude - Marvin Lewis was passed over how many times before we snagged him? 5? 6?That said, it would be hoped that soon enough there will be a sunset on the NFL policy as it won't be seen as necessary. This offseason doesn't exactly make me think that 2006 will be the year that happens.-QG
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Just to point out a few things from the article.He uses a comparison of experience between Mangini and Crenell but...Marvin Lewis had 8 years of NFL coaching experience (3 less than Mangini) when he got his first HC job.Lovie Smith also had 8 years of NFL coaching experience when he got his first HC job.So I disagree with some of the numbers Blackistone threw around in his article since he singled out the oldest of the recent black HC hires.
bagger.
The One Play Quiz
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
7 out of the 8 minority hires have taken their first side to the playoffs within 2 years (except Marvin Lewis who took 3 with the previously awful Bengals). Romeo Crennel is the only guy who hasn't and he's in his 2nd year now.If franchises want to give jobs to Morninwheg & Sean Payton then that's their own stupid fault. The numbers should perhaps rise in the next 10 years as the player percentage of minorities (which is the majority of players) makes it way through the coaching ranks.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Things are changing, its not going to happen overnight...It doesn't take a genius to see that a predominantly black workforce may relate to and work harder for a black manager.
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thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Art Shell had 1 losing season in 6 in Oakland, with 3 playoff appearances and 2 wins.Ray Rhodes was 8-8 in his only season in Green Bay.
CalBear
Footballguy
Art Shell was 54-38 and had just one losing season in OAK (well, LA), and brought the team to the AFC championship in his first full year as coach. Ray Rhodes was coach for only one year in Green Bay and was 8-8. In comparison, Mornhiwegh was 5-27 in two years in Detroit. Jauron was 35-45 with just one winning season in Chicago. Turner was 9-23 with the Raiders, 58-82-1 overall now. Haslettt was 45-51. Capers is 18-46.
You're not going to convince me that any of these retread white guys getting new jobs give their team "the best chance to win."
I do believe I made this point previously & used the Jaron hiring to support myself. You must have missed it.My second point was in response to 7/8 black HCs making it to the playoffs in a couple of years is that not all black HCs are going to be successful just because they are black, which I emphasized with Shell & Rhodes.Have a great day.
Lombardi's Orphan Son
Footballguy
isn't that racist????-orphan
Warpig
Footballguy
It is impossible for African Americans to be racist...they have been oppressed for BILLIONS of years. Only the evil, devil whiteman is capable of being racist. Another thing...aren't most or ALL NFL teams predominantly African American? Uh-oh...that's racist! I'm protesting the NFL until they get mo' better white folk.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
US population = 13% blackNFL head coaches = 19% blackWhat's the problem?? 
RnR
Footballguy
65% of NFL is black. 19% of NFL head coaches are black. 13% of the United States is black. The NFL is the last place we need to be crying "racist." Any league/company/organization that employees a higher percentage of black people than the percentage of black people that actually populate this country are doing more than their share of equal opportunity hiring.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Geez...and what percent of black water boys wern born on a Tuesday?? You're rationale is screwy (to say the least).Following your line of sight...NFL players = 65% black.NFL coaches = less than 10% black.US population = 13% black
NFL head coaches = 19% black
What's the problem??
NFL head coaches before Rooney Rule = 6% black.
80% of Chipotle managers should be Hispanic
99% of square-dancing instructors should be Caucasion
Bears_Man2
Footballguy
CalBear
Footballguy
Simple sampling. If you have a box of 100 marbles, 13 black and 87 white, and another box of 100 marbles, 50 black and 50 white, and you pull six marbles from the first box and 26 marbles from the second box, how many black marbles would you expect to wind up with, assuming your pulling process is unbiased?(Actually I doubt there are six head coaches in the NFL who never played pro or college football, but you should be able to understand the logic.)
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John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Ray Rhodes was in his 2nd Stint as a head coach. In his first he got Philly to the playoffs within his first 2 years.Art Shell has been covered already.
It's a historical fact. It's also a historical fact that no black head coach has coached in the superbowl yet.
In my previous thread on this there hasn't been an unsuccessful (if success is defined as getting your side to the playoffs) first time black head coach yet.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
This is good? Sounds like you guys are condoning lynchings.
nag'
Footballguy
The PC police are in charge here. Go ahead and try suggesting something like there should be more whites playing the RB position and you'll be fined, suspended, fired and labeled a racist. Meanwhile, the NFL is being commended for the increase of blacks at the QB position. While niether suggestions are fair or applicable in a business where ABILITY should be the ONLY qualification for playing time, these are the typical double standards and reverse racism which the affirmitive action bullies have pushed on the NFL for years. And there's more to come.
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thesurfshop19
Footballguy
If better qualified minority candidates are passed over repeatedly by lesser qualified white candidates, that's when it becomes an issue. This clearly occurred in the past, while it has been drastically reduced nowadays.I'm not sure why your %s are relevant.
I still think there's a way to go before it's perfect, but the Rooney Rule has really helped make things fair, despite the protestations of some "oppressed" guys here!
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Come on, this isn't all PC stuff here.Historically, well-qualified black coaches have had trouble getting their foot in the door as a head coaching candidate. That has changed now thanks to the "PC" Rooney Rule.
Does that really bother you?
nag'
Footballguy
Yes, it bothers me that RACE is a factor in the hiring process, period. It wasn't fair 50 years ago when blacks were discriminated against and it's not fair now when the situation is reversed. And the answer is YES, white coaches ARE being discriminated against when NFL teams are forced to interview and/or hire black candidates strictly because they are black.
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Well, I think there's a pretty big difference here. All the Rooney Rule is allow otherwise historically overlooked candidates the opportunity. Better qualified white coaches would still get the job, but it helps give minority coaches hope since historically they haven't been considered.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
I agree with your logic, but I disagree with the assumption that all NFL coaches have to have professional experience. But to run with your sampling analogy, how many black marbles are in the box of college coaches? And the box of assistant coaches? And the box of former head coaches? I think these boxes have to be looked at before we question the hiring practice of head coaches. But I will say the Rooney rule was a step in the right direction.
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