So Cal Fires (1 Viewer)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

To add - my comment, and obvious frustration, is not so much directed at a particular group of people on either end of the political spectrum. It happens all across it.

So who exactly were you referring to when you said the following?

Seeing a meme posted by a certain segment of people now all over Twitter and IG that the fire companies that Oregon sent down were stopped and checked for emissions in California, delaying the help they could provide.

Or……

It would help if you just said exactly what you mean without all the subterfuge.

As far as people being mislead and manipulated by media - it worked. Not because you fell for the misinformation, but because it led you to attack "a certain group of people". Thats the entire point of the meme you weren't triggered by enough to go looking for counterpoints and call out the meme. Hook, line and sinker.


ETA = We should prolly just drop this and focus on the fires. Wish you the best, nothing personal.

 

[gump]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual reoccurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible mechanism?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

You can bury the power lines. Very few places do that as expensive and only done in dense urban neighborhoods.

Florida has been aggressively burying lines for about 20 years, since the '04 hurricanes. I've heard roughly 50% of the lines in Tampa Bay and Orlando are underground, and these areas are planning more.

 

[TripItUp]

So it seems like they need to remove the lines. Put in a nuclear power plant or bury the lines.

Just figure it the **** out.

 

[TripItUp]

No. But it’s the cheapest, that’s why it’s being used

I have a feeling that line of reasoning is going to be seriously revisited. Smells like incompetence to me.


Open Memo to those that oversee this.

A) we are going to have dry seasons again
B) Santa Ana winds will continue to blow, every year for the rest of your lifetime

FIGURE IT OUT

 

[Gr00vus]

Another issue with moving power infrastructure underground in CA is earthquake risk. As with residential building architecture, it's tough to design effectively to mitigate fire and earthquake risk.

Also, enforcing changes on a non-government entity like PG&E would probably require new laws and regulations. And a lot of money.

 

[TripItUp]

I wonder if this will lead to more localized energy solutions like the Tesla home battery etc.

The above ground power line model clearly isn't working here.

 

[TripItUp]

Another issue with moving power infrastructure underground in CA is earthquake risk. As with residential building architecture, it's tough to design effectively to mitigate fire and earthquake risk.

Also, enforcing changes on a non-government entity like PG&E would probably require new laws and regulations. And a lot of money.

I wonder if they can build electric pipelines similar to how oil pipelines are designed, but the pipelines would safely house the electrical lines above ground like the oil pipelines.

Just shooting from the hip here.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

So it seems like they need to remove the lines. Put in a nuclear power plant or bury the lines.

Just figure it the **** out.

Nuclear power generation has nothing to do with transmitting the power generated.

 

[Gr00vus]

Another issue with moving power infrastructure underground in CA is earthquake risk. As with residential building architecture, it's tough to design effectively to mitigate fire and earthquake risk.

Also, enforcing changes on a non-government entity like PG&E would probably require new laws and regulations. And a lot of money.

I wonder if they can build electric pipelines similar to how oil pipelines are designed, but the pipelines would safely house the electrical lines above ground like the oil pipelines.

Just shooting from the hip here.

Interesting idea, but probably a bit too bulky for high density areas.

The reality is, this isn't a simple problem, so the solutions aren't going to be simple or easily derived either. And any change/improvement will cost billions to implement.

I get that it's frustrating, and we want immediate answers and corrections. But patience is in order here, as is follow through, and an extremely rational approach to diagnosis and replanning. Let's not tear each other up because things aren't understood or solved in a matter of weeks.

 

[HomerSimpson]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual occurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

it's not a surprise, there is a history with pg&e and fires

The 2018 Camp Fire in Northern California's Butte County was at the time the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in California's history. The fire began on the morning of Thursday, November 8, 2018, when part of a poorly maintained Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) transmission line in the Feather River Canyon failed during strong katabatic winds. Those winds rapidly drove the Camp Fire through the communities of Concow, Magalia, Butte Creek Canyon, and Paradise, largely destroying them. The fire burned for another two weeks, and was contained on Sunday, November 25, after burning 153,336 acres (62,050 ha). The Camp Fire caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures, causing an estimated US$16.5 billion in damage. It was the most expensive natural disaster (by insured losses) of 2018, and is a notable case of a utility-caused wildfire.

PG&E filed for bankruptcy in January 2019, citing expected wildfire liabilities of $30 billion. On December 6, 2019, the utility made a settlement offer of $13.5 billion for the wildfire victims; the offer covered several devastating fires caused by the utility, including the Camp Fire. On June 16, 2020, the utility pleaded guilty to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter.

And PG&E raised our rates 5 TIMES in 2024. They just raise the rates on everyone to cover their messes. They will never change because they are never held accountable for anything.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Another issue with moving power infrastructure underground in CA is earthquake risk. As with residential building architecture, it's tough to design effectively to mitigate fire and earthquake risk.

Also, enforcing changes on a non-government entity like PG&E would probably require new laws and regulations. And a lot of money.

I wonder if they can build electric pipelines similar to how oil pipelines are designed, but the pipelines would safely house the electrical lines above ground like the oil pipelines.

Just shooting from the hip here.

CPUC Undergrounding Programs Description

www.cpuc.ca.gov

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don’t know if the devastation from these fires is going to be fully known or felt until things get fully put out and some of the damage can get evaluated. I know a couple people that live in the Palisades that lost their home—and they both tell me that it’s not that just a couple/few neighborhoods burned down—basically a large portion of the entire community (including the infrastructure) has been destroyed. It’s also been reported that rentals/homes for sale on the market have been going for above asking prices in the last couple of days due to the large number of displaced people. You’re also going to have issues now where these giant fire areas are going to become potential landslide areas when we finally get some rain due to the vegetation being burned off. My heart goes out to everybody affected by these fires. To those of whom might not be familiar with the Palisades—unfortunately—one the most iconic and architecturally significant homes in the LA area was there and burned down. Oddly enough—it was located next to the home of Tom Hanks—which somehow survived. I’ll post a video of the home (before the fire)—as it’s legit incredible. Sad to hear that it’s gone.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Exactly! They don't have the infrastructure after these fires to quickly rebuild
Some of the land/cliffs where these homes were won't be up to code now and they simply won't be approved to rebuild them
This is from KTLA, local affiliate in los Angeles where i have been getting most of the local news there in Los Angeles

 

[RCon]

Unless you can get China and India to drastically change, anything else we try just seems like a drop in the bucket. There is not much we can do about the natural occurring events from mother nature.

To this day, the US is ahead of both China and India in per-capita emissions. That said, if we're looking to hold someone accountable for climate change to current day, I think we can start with the oil companies. They had research in the 70s showing exactly what would happen and they buried it.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Some of the land/cliffs where these homes were won't be up to code now and they simply won't be approved to rebuild them

this has come up from people in the know quite a bit last week. there are entire neighborhoods where "experts" say the houses should never have been built. though most of that is pointed at the Palisades area, some Altadena neighborhoods didn't even have roads wide enough for the first responders to easily reach the houses. tough battle for a lot of people coming up. things just not being up to code being really highlighted in the recents months even before the fires, going back to the sinking houses along the cliffs of Palos Verdes. negligence by city officials really coming to the forefront, as it should. not that I have any high hopes of real change.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some of the land/cliffs where these homes were won't be up to code now and they simply won't be approved to rebuild them

this has come up from people in the know quite a bit last week. there are entire neighborhoods where "experts" say the houses should never have been built. though most of that is pointed at the Palisades area, some Altadena neighborhoods didn't even have roads wide enough for the first responders to easily reach the houses. tough battle for a lot of people coming up. things just not being up to code being really highlighted in the recents months even before the fires, going back to the sinking houses along the cliffs of Palos Verdes. negligence by city officials really coming to the forefront, as it should. not that I have any high hopes of real change.

I lived off 10th/11th street by Montana and the Duck Blind if that's even still there, pretty hip liquor store when I was there '00-'07
Father's Office was down the alley from my apartment in Santa Monica
Are you in SoCal now? Heartbreaking to see what has unfolded

 

[dkp993]

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

Underground transmission lines are the answer. The barrier is cost, something the power companies aren’t jumping at the idea to front. It’s been an ongoing discussion forever.

 

[Nipsey]

Some of the land/cliffs where these homes were won't be up to code now and they simply won't be approved to rebuild them

this has come up from people in the know quite a bit last week. there are entire neighborhoods where "experts" say the houses should never have been built. though most of that is pointed at the Palisades area, some Altadena neighborhoods didn't even have roads wide enough for the first responders to easily reach the houses. tough battle for a lot of people coming up. things just not being up to code being really highlighted in the recents months even before the fires, going back to the sinking houses along the cliffs of Palos Verdes. negligence by city officials really coming to the forefront, as it should. not that I have any high hopes of real change.

I lived off 10th/11th street by Montana and the Duck Blind if that's even still there, pretty hip liquor store when I was there '00-'07
Father's Office was down the alley from my apartment in Santa Monica
Are you in SoCal now? Heartbreaking to see what has unfolded

Duck Blind is gone. It's a different liquor store now.

 

[beer 30]

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

Underground transmission lines are the answer. The barrier is cost, something the power companies aren’t jumping at the idea to front. It’s been an ongoing discussion forever.

Well that was when you had all those pesky structures in the way. If ever you were going to do something like this, now would be the time.

 

[djmich]

Unless you can get China and India to drastically change, anything else we try just seems like a drop in the bucket. There is not much we can do about the natural occurring events from mother nature.

To this day, the US is ahead of both China and India in per-capita emissions. That said, if we're looking to hold someone accountable for climate change to current day, I think we can start with the oil companies. They had research in the 70s showing exactly what would happen and they buried it.

Not sure mother nature cares about per capita. People create emissions and China's emissions are more than 2x the US in that regard.

Something Positive

 

[TripItUp]

Well that was when you had all those pesky structures in the way. If ever you were going to do something like this, now would be the time.

yeah, I have a feeling it doesn't cost 100 billion dollars.(or whatever the cost of this fire ends up being)

 

[tommyGunZ]

No. But it’s the cheapest, that’s why it’s being used

I have a feeling that line of reasoning is going to be seriously revisited. Smells like incompetence to me.


Open Memo to those that oversee this.

A) we are going to have dry seasons again
B) Santa Ana winds will continue to blow, every year for the rest of your lifetime

FIGURE IT OUT

Reality is people don’t want to commit to the costs of fixing and mitigating these problems. Experts have been warning us for decades but as a society we don’t listen.

These disasters are only going to continue.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Another issue with moving power infrastructure underground in CA is earthquake risk. As with residential building architecture, it's tough to design effectively to mitigate fire and earthquake risk.

Also, enforcing changes on a non-government entity like PG&E would probably require new laws and regulations. And a lot of money.

I wonder if they can build electric pipelines similar to how oil pipelines are designed, but the pipelines would safely house the electrical lines above ground like the oil pipelines.

Just shooting from the hip here.

CPUC Undergrounding Programs Description

www.cpuc.ca.gov

How Much Would it Cost to Underground all of California’s Overhead Lines?​

California has approximately 25,526 miles of transmission lines, and approximately 239,557 miles of distribution lines, of which approximately 147,000 miles of distribution lines are overhead.

Based on an average cost of $3.8 million per circuit mile of conversion for undergrounding distribution infrastructure (across the three utilities), the ratepayers would be required to pay $559 billion to convert all 147,000 miles of overhead distribution lines in the State. Additionally, the cost of undergrounding all 34,000 miles of overhead transmission lines in the State would cost $204 billion assuming an average cost of $6 million per mile.

 

[TripItUp]

How Much Would it Cost to Underground all of California’s Overhead Lines?​

California has approximately 25,526 miles of transmission lines, and approximately 239,557 miles of distribution lines, of which approximately 147,000 miles of distribution lines are overhead.

Based on an average cost of $3.8 million per circuit mile of conversion for undergrounding distribution infrastructure (across the three utilities), the ratepayers would be required to pay $559 billion to convert all 147,000 miles of overhead distribution lines in the State. Additionally, the cost of undergrounding all 34,000 miles of overhead transmission lines in the State would cost $204 billion assuming an average cost of $6 million per mile.

Good info, thanks for providing.

So 559 billion for all of California...maybe we just start with the lines close to the one of the largest cities in the world(highest risk areas) ....let's use some common sense.

 

[RCon]

You keep referring to common sense and figure it out, but you're ignoring the question of who is using common sense and figuring it out, or, more to the point, who is spending the money. The electric company isn't going to spend $100B to put wires underground without recovering that cost somewhere. Taxpayers will throw a fit if you put it on them. Should insurance companies be the ones paying for infrastructure improvements? How does $100B in electric infrastructure solve the problem of high winds and droughts? We'll still have fires, just from a different cause.

If you want this to happen, it's going to have to come from the federal government. That doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

No. But it’s the cheapest, that’s why it’s being used

I have a feeling that line of reasoning is going to be seriously revisited. Smells like incompetence to me.


Open Memo to those that oversee this.

A) we are going to have dry seasons again
B) Santa Ana winds will continue to blow, every year for the rest of your lifetime

FIGURE IT OUT

Reality is people don’t want to commit to the costs of fixing and mitigating these problems. Experts have been warning us for decades but as a society we don’t listen.

These disasters are only going to continue.

aka people that build houses on a side of a cliff and then are shocked when the house slides down the cliff

 

[SFBayDuck]

aka people that build houses on a side of a cliff and then are shocked when the house slides down the cliff

I've watched that very thing happen in both Daly City and Pacifica.

 

[djmich]

You keep referring to common sense and figure it out, but you're ignoring the question of who is using common sense and figuring it out, or, more to the point, who is spending the money. The electric company isn't going to spend $100B to put wires underground without recovering that cost somewhere. Taxpayers will throw a fit if you put it on them. Should insurance companies be the ones paying for infrastructure improvements? How does $100B in electric infrastructure solve the problem of high winds and droughts? We'll still have fires, just from a different cause.

If you want this to happen, it's going to have to come from the federal government. That doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.

Why wouldn't the state government be responsible for this?

 

[Sand]

Lock these looters up for life...what a disgrace.

Dude, this is Cali.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Some of the land/cliffs where these homes were won't be up to code now and they simply won't be approved to rebuild them

this has come up from people in the know quite a bit last week. there are entire neighborhoods where "experts" say the houses should never have been built. though most of that is pointed at the Palisades area, some Altadena neighborhoods didn't even have roads wide enough for the first responders to easily reach the houses. tough battle for a lot of people coming up. things just not being up to code being really highlighted in the recents months even before the fires, going back to the sinking houses along the cliffs of Palos Verdes. negligence by city officials really coming to the forefront, as it should. not that I have any high hopes of real change.

I lived off 10th/11th street by Montana and the Duck Blind if that's even still there, pretty hip liquor store when I was there '00-'07
Father's Office was down the alley from my apartment in Santa Monica
Are you in SoCal now? Heartbreaking to see what has unfolded

yep, lived near father's office in the 2000s, now in the valley. sidenote, the best burgers in the world that no one ever heard of. photos don't do justice to seeing homes burnt to the ground in person and the sheer magnitude of the destruction here.

 

[beer 30]

How Much Would it Cost to Underground all of California’s Overhead Lines?​

California has approximately 25,526 miles of transmission lines, and approximately 239,557 miles of distribution lines, of which approximately 147,000 miles of distribution lines are overhead.

Based on an average cost of $3.8 million per circuit mile of conversion for undergrounding distribution infrastructure (across the three utilities), the ratepayers would be required to pay $559 billion to convert all 147,000 miles of overhead distribution lines in the State. Additionally, the cost of undergrounding all 34,000 miles of overhead transmission lines in the State would cost $204 billion assuming an average cost of $6 million per mile.

Good info, thanks for providing.

So 559 billion for all of California...maybe we just start with the lines close to the one of the largest cities in the world(highest risk areas) ....let's use some common sense.

Good stuff Joe, thanks. Agree with Trip, large population centers make sense. The drive from LA to Bakersfield? Probably can wait. There is a **** ton of empty space in CA that don't require buried lines.

 

[Joe Schmo]

20 suspected looters arrested in Southern California fire zones

“If you are in one of these areas and you do not belong there, you are going to be subject to arrest,” Sheriff Robert Luna said.

www.ocregister.com

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

20 suspected looters arrested in Southern California fire zones

“If you are in one of these areas and you do not belong there, you are going to be subject to arrest,” Sheriff Robert Luna said.

www.ocregister.com

makes me wanna go out and punch somebody in the face, but then i'd get a longer sentence than the low life I punched because that's how life works. sad.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Parts of SLO county under red flag warning

 

[gump]

‘Man lighting fires in Pan Pacific Park’?

 

[acarey50]

Back to red flag wind warnings through Wednesday.

There was a fire out in Riverside this afternoon that fortunately appears to have been knocked down quickly before it could spread - apparently a building fire that spread to nearby brush

 

[RCon]

You keep referring to common sense and figure it out, but you're ignoring the question of who is using common sense and figuring it out, or, more to the point, who is spending the money. The electric company isn't going to spend $100B to put wires underground without recovering that cost somewhere. Taxpayers will throw a fit if you put it on them. Should insurance companies be the ones paying for infrastructure improvements? How does $100B in electric infrastructure solve the problem of high winds and droughts? We'll still have fires, just from a different cause.

If you want this to happen, it's going to have to come from the federal government. That doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.

Why wouldn't the state government be responsible for this?

State government doesn't have hundreds of billions and can't deficit spend. Simple as that.

 

[djmich]

You keep referring to common sense and figure it out, but you're ignoring the question of who is using common sense and figuring it out, or, more to the point, who is spending the money. The electric company isn't going to spend $100B to put wires underground without recovering that cost somewhere. Taxpayers will throw a fit if you put it on them. Should insurance companies be the ones paying for infrastructure improvements? How does $100B in electric infrastructure solve the problem of high winds and droughts? We'll still have fires, just from a different cause.

If you want this to happen, it's going to have to come from the federal government. That doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.

Why wouldn't the state government be responsible for this?

State government doesn't have hundreds of billions and can't deficit spend. Simple as that.

They're spending that much on high speed rail. They've spent $24B on homelessness the last 5yrs without making a dent in the amount of homeless and without consistently tracking the outcomes or the effectiveness. The fifth largest economy on the planet has $100B and its not going to all be spent in one year, its not a one time thing. Whether or not they have the competence to deliver is another question.

 

[dkp993]

You keep referring to common sense and figure it out, but you're ignoring the question of who is using common sense and figuring it out, or, more to the point, who is spending the money. The electric company isn't going to spend $100B to put wires underground without recovering that cost somewhere. Taxpayers will throw a fit if you put it on them. Should insurance companies be the ones paying for infrastructure improvements? How does $100B in electric infrastructure solve the problem of high winds and droughts? We'll still have fires, just from a different cause.

If you want this to happen, it's going to have to come from the federal government. That doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.

Why wouldn't the state government be responsible for this?

State government doesn't have hundreds of billions and can't deficit spend. Simple as that.

They're spending that much on high speed rail. They've spent $24B on homelessness the last 5yrs without making a dent in the amount of homeless and without consistently tracking the outcomes or the effectiveness. The fifth largest economy on the planet has $100B and its not going to all be spent in one year, its not a one time thing. Whether or not they have the competence to deliver is another question.

And the largest economy in the history of the world has a 36+ trillion dollar debt and growing. So maybe, just maybe, the lesson is… it’s hard and complicated to run something this big.

 

[fatness]

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

Underground transmission lines are the answer. The barrier is cost, something the power companies aren’t jumping at the idea to front. It’s been an ongoing discussion forever.

Well that was when you had all those pesky structures in the way. If ever you were going to do something like this, now would be the time.

Topography and taxes have been the stoppers for this and, this being America full of Americans, will probably continue to be the stoppers. Have you looked at the places that these power lines run? Many of them are not accessible by vehicle, some of them barely accessible by foot, and it's a huge state.

Sure, you can say from out of state "take all the dollars for high speed rail and spend them on burying power lines instead, while making them earthquake proof in the process." But people in California will have to decide if they want to pay more taxes to try to prevent a climate outcome (drought, winds, and resulting fires) while eliminating other taxes meant to prevent a climate outcome (high speed rail to reduce pollution which adversely affects climate). It's their state, full of people, with X amount of income, who make their own decisions about what's best for them. Every state is good at telling other states how to do things.

 

[fatness]

N95 masks available in California libraries.

 

[fatness]

An local ongoing thread of ongoing updates on the fires: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...ires-eaton-altadena-palisades-monday/3603048/

 

[fatness]

I'm not sure who'll be making off with the most cash from the fires, looters or landlords. This is the third article I've read on landlords hiking rents exorbitantly in response to so many people being homeless due to the fires: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...-palisades-monday/3603048/?cardId=1:9:3603909

 

[fatness]

It's not certain at all yet, but the Eaton Fire appears to have started at the base of a transmission line tower.
https://ktla.com/news/california/wi...eyed-as-possible-source-of-deadly-eaton-fire/

 

[TripItUp]

Every state is good at telling other states how to do things.

When/if other states have to foot the bill for potential mismanagement, seems like it would be okay for those states to have an opinion...especially since their taxpayers are Federal taxpayers.

California leadership is under an even greater microscope now, which seems like an appropriate thing.

 

[TripItUp]

It's not certain at all yet, but the Eaton Fire appears to have started at the base of a transmission line tower.
https://ktla.com/news/california/wi...eyed-as-possible-source-of-deadly-eaton-fire/

yeah, time to rethink the electricity strategy for dry, susceptible areas.

I am generally relieved that it's not arson/domestic terrorism.

 

[RCon]

When/if other states have to foot the bill for potential mismanagement, seems like it would be okay for those states to have an opinion...especially since their taxpayers are Federal taxpayers.

Should California taxpayers get a say in tornado damage control measures in midwestern states, hurricane damage control measures in Atlantic states, power outage risks in Texas, etc. Curious why this is only an issue now and not when so many previous states have had disasters (the damage from which could also have been mitigated)?

 

[Gatorade]

I'm not saying that both don't deserve federal assistance, but I think there are many more things you can do about fire prevention than you can do to stop a tornado or hurricane.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

When/if other states have to foot the bill for potential mismanagement, seems like it would be okay for those states to have an opinion...especially since their taxpayers are Federal taxpayers.

Should California taxpayers get a say in tornado damage control measures in midwestern states, hurricane damage control measures in Atlantic states, power outage risks in Texas, etc. Curious why this is only an issue now and not when so many previous states have had disasters (the damage from which could also have been mitigated)?

we're too close to the politics line here so let's tread lightly gents, but this is a reasonable question and a good answer imo. California contributes more to that coffer than most states. as far as federal aid goes for natural disasters, i would imagine california is not in the top ten list. of course there are states that hardly need any at all, but let's not take the narrative that California is a needy state. It can stand on its own, but that means it also gets to stop contributing to the pool, so both sides need to be considered in any argument here.

 

[TripItUp]

I'm not saying that both don't deserve federal assistance, but I think there are many more things you can do about fire prevention than you can do to stop a tornado or hurricane.

exactly

it's not an apples to apples comparison.

there is no prevention for Hurricanes

 

[belljr]

There's no prevention for 100 mph winds after a fire breaks out either