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So Why Exactly ... (1 Viewer)

packersfan

Footballguy
One thing that surprised me during the game was how often the Patriot players went out of their way to mock TO and his (admittedly silly) bird-waving "dance" or whatever the hell it's called. Givens did it after his touchdown; Vrabel did it after his touchdown and Harrison did after his game-ending INT. Granted, Owens did it after his big reception in the first quarter, but that was the only time he did it and it's not like he spent the entire week bad-mouthing the Patriots or giving them ample reason to be p*****d off at him heading into the game. So what was the point of mocking him constantly? For a team that takes such pride in its sportsmanship and class, I found all of that to be rather curious and ... excessive. Was it just me or did anyone else find all that a bit odd?

 
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Colin Dowling

Footballguy
I posted it in the game thread. I would understand if the roles were reversed, but I thought it was very un-Patriot-like. They've won 3 of 4 Super Bowls by dictating the pace of the game and imposing their gameplan on the other team. It seemed out of character for them to do that when they scored.COlin

 

slowerde

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.

 

scoobygang

Footballguy
How's it so out of character? I've seen Patriots players showboat plenty of times.They're a team of professional athletes. I don't understand the need of some of their supporters to endow them with some unusual quality of "class".They're a very good football team, but I don't see them as any classier than anyone else.

 

packersfan

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
But what did he say that would rankle the Patriots? I don't recall him taking any shots at their team. He gave them no reason to single him out to the best of my knowledge. Just being annoyed at a guy isn't enough reason to make such a pointed effort to mock him if you ask me. I found it to be very curious and for a team that was the favorite going in and had no reason to exhibit such behavior, I found it to be beneath them quite honestly.
 

Hov34

Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
But what did he say that would rankle the Patriots? I don't recall him taking any shots at their team. He gave them no reason to single him out to the best of my knowledge. Just being annoyed at a guy isn't enough reason to make such a pointed effort to mock him if you ask me. I found it to be very curious and for a team that was the favorite going in and had no reason to exhibit such behavior, I found it to be beneath them quite honestly.
But it is ok for TO to continually mock opposing players, even if it's just a catch for a 1st down? I don't get the free passes TO gets for his sophomoric behavior, but Moss gets crucified and the Pats get chastised for giving it back to the mighty TO...Some of you need to get in line behind Joe Buck to service TO and get it over with already...
 

Ibis81

Footballguy
It wasn't specifically anything he said. They were just mocking one of the biggest loudmouth showboaters (NTTIAWWT) of the game. Whats the big deal? :sleep: :confused:

 

placeholder10391

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
Coverage which was well-deserved and which proved to have some merit in light of his phenominal performance. He is probably not only the best in the game at his position, but is arguably one of the best football players period. (With the potential exception of Tom Brady, I would argue he was the best football player in this year's super bowl)
 

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
But what did he say that would rankle the Patriots? I don't recall him taking any shots at their team. He gave them no reason to single him out to the best of my knowledge. Just being annoyed at a guy isn't enough reason to make such a pointed effort to mock him if you ask me. I found it to be very curious and for a team that was the favorite going in and had no reason to exhibit such behavior, I found it to be beneath them quite honestly.
But it is ok for TO to continually mock opposing players, even if it's just a catch for a 1st down? I don't get the free passes TO gets for his sophomoric behavior, but Moss gets crucified and the Pats get chastised for giving it back to the mighty TO...Some of you need to get in line behind Joe Buck to service TO and get it over with already...
How is TO mocking the other team when he does the Eagles dance wing thing? Isn't that a "own team" thing, not a "mock the other team" thing?Just asking. I think its silly myself.COlin
 

placeholder10391

Footballguy
But what did he say that would rankle the Patriots? I don't recall him taking any shots at their team. He gave them no reason to single him out to the best of my knowledge. Just being annoyed at a guy isn't enough reason to make such a pointed effort to mock him if you ask me.

I found it to be very curious and for a team that was the favorite going in and had no reason to exhibit such behavior, I found it to be beneath them quite honestly.
But it is ok for TO to continually mock opposing players, even if it's just a catch for a 1st down?
Asked and answered, in bold above.
 

placeholder10391

Footballguy
How is TO mocking the other team when he does the Eagles dance wing thing? Isn't that a "own team" thing, not a "mock the other team" thing?
Correct, and I fail to see what some of the others are missing here...
 

slowerde

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
Coverage which was well-deserved and which proved to have some merit in light of his phenominal performance. He is probably not only the best in the game at his position, but is arguably one of the best football players period. (With the potential exception of Tom Brady, I would argue he was the best football player in this year's super bowl)
How did the coverage have "merit"? Did the coverage make TO play better? If he went out and sucked, would that have made the coverage frivolous?He played great yes, I'm not saying he didn't, but after 2 straight weeks of hearing about the guy got everyone a little irked. You can only take so much.And the best player last night was NOT Owens. He wasn't even the best WR that was on the field last night.Personally, I think Harrison made the difference in the game. Especially after Wilson went out. His open field tackling added to his INTs set him apart.But how can you argue the performance of Brach last night?
 

houndirish

Footballguy
I posted it in the game thread. I would understand if the roles were reversed, but I thought it was very un-Patriot-like. They've won 3 of 4 Super Bowls by dictating the pace of the game and imposing their gameplan on the other team. It seemed out of character for them to do that when they scored.COlin
Well said.I was a little disappointed in the Patriots behavior. They're better than that. I will say I didn't take their taunting as being directed specifically at TO.
 

mad sweeney

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.

It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
Coverage which was well-deserved and which proved to have some merit in light of his phenominal performance. He is probably not only the best in the game at his position, but is arguably one of the best football players period. (With the potential exception of Tom Brady, I would argue he was the best football player in this year's super bowl)
You mean right behind Deion Branch?And how many people thought TO's mocking of Ray Lewis was good? The best way to shut up a loudmouth is to beat him at his own game, which they did. Just ask Mitchell who I think played, but I'm not sure.

TO is known for his celebrations as much as anyone else. Maybe the mocking of it was to get him irritated and unfocused (didn't work). Maybe the Pats were truly enjoying the fact that TO, despite God's will, was unable to help his team win and enjoyed rubbing it in. Regardless, they did it during TDs and INTs, not after first downs. And it's not a particualrly offensive dance so i don't know what the hubbub is, Bub. If TO scored and did the Eagle Flap (which I doubt would be the extent of it) I wouldn't had a problem.

 

Ibis81

Footballguy
I posted it in the game thread. I would understand if the roles were reversed, but I thought it was very un-Patriot-like. They've won 3 of 4 Super Bowls by dictating the pace of the game and imposing their gameplan on the other team. It seemed out of character for them to do that when they scored.COlin
Well said.I was a little disappointed in the Patriots behavior. They're better than that. I will say I didn't take their taunting as being directed specifically at TO.
Why are they better than that? Why should they be? Its not like they made derogatory comments or anything offensive.You all dont rub it in a little bit when you are playing football or even fantasy football? If TOs bird thing is just an "own team thing" then why is mocking it specificically calling out TO?
 

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
I posted it in the game thread.  I would understand if the roles were reversed, but I thought it was very un-Patriot-like.  They've won 3 of 4 Super Bowls by dictating the pace of the game and imposing their gameplan on the other team.  It seemed out of character for them to do that when they scored.COlin
Well said.I was a little disappointed in the Patriots behavior. They're better than that. I will say I didn't take their taunting as being directed specifically at TO.
Why are they better than that? Why should they be? Its not like they made derogatory comments or anything offensive.You all dont rub it in a little bit when you are playing football or even fantasy football? If TOs bird thing is just an "own team thing" then why is mocking it specificically calling out TO?
I didn't think they were mocking TO, specifically. I thought they were mocking the Eagles. It just seemed out of character for them. I don't really care that they did it, I just found it surprising.COlin
 

rhawkins68

Footballguy
To throw out a guess, after hearing about the guy for 2 weeks straight, it got to them a little bit.It was out of character for sure, but when you get 2 weeks of ANYTHING forced on you like the coverage of TO, anyone would become a little irratated by it.
Coverage which was well-deserved and which proved to have some merit in light of his phenominal performance. He is probably not only the best in the game at his position, but is arguably one of the best football players period. (With the potential exception of Tom Brady, I would argue he was the best football player in this year's super bowl)
More TO BlindnessAt his position Moss is better without question. I would also put in Ward, Harrison, Holt and Johnson. In the NFL the list grows even lengthier. So let's not over state how good TO really is.As far as his injury goes I am amazed he recovered as quickly as he did but the Doc did orginally say he would be ready for the Super Bowl. The clearing of TO was a CYA thing in my opinion. The quick recovery speaks alot about his work ethic and I applaud him for it. Warrior no. I reserve that for Smith, Youngblood, and Farves.In the super bowl he was not the best at all. Branch, Harrison, Bruschi, Brady, Trotter, Lewis, (who ever got that pick for TO. Joking). But not near the best and I am sure I left some out.My opinion is they threw to much to TO instead of a healthy westbrook and mitchell. TO is an annoying player but is top 10 at his position without question. he has also proved he plays with alot of heart.Edit: On topic. I found nothing wrong with it and they were not mocking owens but using psy-ops on the whole eagles team. That is an eagle thing not an owens thing.
 
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kupcho1

Footballguy
I was a little disappointed in the Patriots behavior. They're better than that.
No they're not. Hell Givens (I think) started waving an invisible Terrible Towel after scoring on the Steelers in the AFC Championship.But so what? These guys get hyped up for a game and want to throw it back at the fans or the opponents. Big deal.But let's not endow the Patriots with some sort of classiness attribute that they plainly do not possess. And that's OK and doesn't take away from their accomplishments.
 

Spike

Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the argument some people are making about the Pats actions being "out of character" isn't them saying "The Pats are classier than that." it's more "The Pats are smarter than that."

They're typically not a team that provides anything that another team could use as "incentive" to perform better.

(For what it's worth, I was extremely surprised by it, as well.)

 

rhawkins68

Footballguy
I always thought the big deal about the Pats is they were so TEAM oriented. This seems to be right in character with that. The TEAM had the same celebration and it happened to be the Eagles wing thing.

 

packersfan

Footballguy
But let's not endow the Patriots with some sort of classiness attribute that they plainly do not possess. And that's OK and doesn't take away from their accomplishments.
I never said it did. I just found it somewhat surprising is all.
 

kupcho1

Footballguy
But let's not endow the Patriots with some sort of classiness attribute that they plainly do not possess. And that's OK and doesn't take away from their accomplishments.
I never said it did. I just found it somewhat surprising is all.
I never said you said it did. I just found it somewhat unsurprising is all. ;)
 

rhawkins68

Footballguy
Maybe they were mocking Fredx.
I'm sure Pepsi or Budweiser could have given Freddie a ticket if he'd wanted to be at the game yesterday. Best I could tell, he wasn't there.Colin
With Owens in the game he pretty much got ignored by everone including McNabb and the patriots. The announcers pointed out several times that the Pats were letting him run free and that the Eagles would eventually take advantage of it. But nope more passes to Owens.
 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
It came across as bush league. :thumbdown:
I was a bit surprised, but for some reason teams enjoy rubbing it in the Iggle's faces. When Pittsburgh dismantled them earlier this season Hines Ward mocked the bird twice, I don't recall a public outcry over that. The Pats did the same thing. Maybe it's getting to them how everyone is saying they don't have great athletes, only a great coach and fit together perfectly as a team. If I was on the team and every day the media is asking how they do it when clearly the better talent is on the Eagles, I may have a chip on my shoulder too.
 

valhallan

Footballguy
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders. It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win. Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.

 

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders. It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win. Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.
I have yet to read an article from any member of the press saying anything critical of the Patriots. Can you please link something that shows the media "wanting" someone else to win? TIA.Colin
 

Serenity Now

Footballguy
The Eagles as a whole appear to me to be big time chest thumpers. Every single tackle or play, someone's doing a dance. Last night they just got a little of it back, is all.Would it have been better if the Pats hadn't done it, or had done something that didn't relate to the Eagles? I suppose so. :shrug:Also, we don't really know how much trash talking was going on throughout the game. I noticed repeatedly that Jon Runyan was jawing with players at the end of a play. Harrison is also a well-known smack talker, so emotions were probably high.

 
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scoobygang

Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the argument some people are making about the Pats actions being "out of character" isn't them saying "The Pats are classier than that." it's more "The Pats are smarter than that."

They're typically not a team that provides anything that another team could use as "incentive" to perform better.

(For what it's worth, I was extremely surprised by it, as well.)
I don't believe any "bulletin board material" or incentive has ever made a damn difference in a football game. Certainly not in a Super Bowl.Rodney Harrison didn't get his two INTs because he was mad at Freddie Mitchell. He got one because McNabb threw an awful pass and one because he got a kind bounce.

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders. It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win. Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.
I have yet to read an article from any member of the press saying anything critical of the Patriots. Can you please link something that shows the media "wanting" someone else to win? TIA.Colin
But have you heard the announcers saying the Eagles have the better athletes, the better players? I've heard that about two dozen times in the last week, how on paper the Eagles are better but Jesus, I mean Bellichick, is the genius at molding his players into a better team. I'd get a bit sick of that.
 

valhallan

Footballguy
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders. It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win. Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.
I have yet to read an article from any member of the press saying anything critical of the Patriots. Can you please link something that shows the media "wanting" someone else to win? TIA.Colin
A desire for the more star-studded Colts, Steelers, or Eagles to beat the boring Patriots is just the general impression I got during the playoffs. Maybe you didn't.This is very similar to the New Jersey Devils of hockey, imo. Professional sports have an easier time hooking new fans when stars like Mario Lemeiux and Brett Favre take the spotlight over "system" teams. I thought that was obvious. Oh well.
 

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders.  It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win.  Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.
I have yet to read an article from any member of the press saying anything critical of the Patriots. Can you please link something that shows the media "wanting" someone else to win? TIA.Colin
But have you heard the announcers saying the Eagles have the better athletes, the better players? I've heard that about two dozen times in the last week, how on paper the Eagles are better but Jesus, I mean Bellichick, is the genius at molding his players into a better team. I'd get a bit sick of that.
Sure, I can see that. But when push came to shove, most of the media guys picked the Pats to win the game. THe betting line expected the Pats to win the game. Most people agreed that the Eagles would have to play perfect to win the game. I see what you are saying. I just thought it was odd since I never have really seen the Patriots players do anything like that. Colin
 

mbuehner

Footballguy
I was irritated and a little surprised by it. Once I could see, but 3 times is kinda silly. Especially considering TO was out there giving one of the gutsyist performances you'll see. I doubt TO cared at all, but to the viewing audience it was a little over the top imo. Now if they would have mocked 3 differnet eagles, say by doing TO, doing Freddy #####ells stupid belt thing, and then doing Stinktons alligator arms, now that would have been entertaining.

 

datonn

Footballguy
The Patriots are starting to play with chips on their shoulders. It's so obvious they're getting tired of how much the media and fans would rather see the Colts or Eagles win. Mocking TO was a manifestation of those frustrations.
That's not how I read the situation at all! I read it more as being like the situation that the Lakers were in during last year's NBA playoffs. The Pats have clearly been the best team in the NFL over the past four years, but that reign is probably winding down. I'll be shocked if success, players wanting to "cash in", two important members of their coaching staff leaving, etc. doesn't come back to bite them in the ####. That said, this was kind of like their "swan song", and I saw the Pats as simply enjoying themselves as they rode one more Big Kahuna into shore.I couldn't decide yesterday who I wanted to see lose more, but in the end was moderately more-amused at the Eagles loss. That, and seeing BB wipe a Packer out of the record books (best post-season winning percentage). So, does three consecutive NFC Championship Game losses and one Super Bowl loss put the Eagles in the same category as the Vikings and Bills in not being able to finish the job?! ;)
 

Macdaddy_2004

Footballguy
haha for a team that preches things such as 1. Sportsmanship2. Respect3. Loyaltyit was totally out of character .... I mean c'mon we see the interviews - Every PAT always has the same demeanourie we respect the other team, we are humble, we are not a dynasty blah blah blah .... Basically they try to mask their true colours which only come out once they accomplish something meaningful.Everyone knows that TO, McNabb, Mitchell are all big time talkers that want to show boat. IMHO when you speak about yourselves and come across humble, and respectful and hardworking and than go out and do stupid things like Mocking your opponent it does exactly the opposite of everything you were trying to come across as.All of a sudden you have no respect for your opponent, and you don't look humble.If the PATS want to celebrate be my guess - but between the Steelers game and now the SuperBowl its obvious to me they are more about disrespecting their opponents than celebrating their own accomplishments.Anyone see Branch when he scored on the reverse against the Steelers?? He looked the safeties right in their eyes and waved goodbye.This is the reason why I want to see the PATS lose - say what you want about TO, Moss and CJ but I have never seen them go as far as to personally disrespect a player or a team.

 
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Colin Dowling

Footballguy
This is the reason why I want to see the PATS lose - say what you want about TO, Moss and CJ but I have never seen them go as far as to personally disrespect a player or a team.
You're kidding again, right? TO mocked Ray Lewis this season. Chad Johnson sent Pepto Bismal to an opponent (who subsequently shut him down). :rotflmao:
 

reg

Mod in training
This is the reason why I want to see the PATS lose - say what you want about TO, Moss and CJ but I have never seen them go as far as to personally disrespect a player or a team.
You're kidding again, right? TO mocked Ray Lewis this season. Chad Johnson sent Pepto Bismal to an opponent (who subsequently shut him down). :rotflmao:
Or possibly mooning the fans of GB, running to the star in Dallas, etc...
 
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Hov34

Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
This is the reason why I want to see the PATS lose - say what you want about TO, Moss and CJ but I have never seen them go as far as to personally disrespect a player or a team.
:shock:
 

Macdaddy_2004

Footballguy
This is the reason why I want to see the PATS lose - say what you want about TO, Moss and CJ but I have never seen them go as far as to personally disrespect a player or a team.
You're kidding again, right? TO mocked Ray Lewis this season. Chad Johnson sent Pepto Bismal to an opponent (who subsequently shut him down). :rotflmao:
We all know why CJ sent the Bismol - it had something to do with promoting some charity as wellMoss made fun of fans mooning his team - he didn't go out and play bully like the pats did to the steelers fan. Theres a difference between mocking someone out of provacation and mocking good-natured fans and a team.Granted TO in his early years was C***y but he never claimed not to be - like the PATS claim to be humble in every interview.Just answer me this - how would the PATS and PAT fans feel if when the Eagles scored they all lined up in a row and proceeded to pretend to fire the rifles (like they do at Gilette) and imagine if they did it 3 times in a game ???IMHO the Patriots showed no class with these celebrations a big :thumbdown:
 

Lehigh98

Footballguy
Sure, TO will do the wing flap or McNabb may do the Thriller dance or dunk the football over the goalpost but those are basically spontaneous celebrations and not rubbing the other teams face in it. (Except the TO / Ray Lewis thing).When the Patriots start the wing flap they are basically taunting the Eagles. Can't they come up with their own celebration? Unoriginal MFers. ;)

 

kupcho1

Footballguy
A desire for the more star-studded Colts, Steelers, or Eagles to beat the boring Patriots is just the general impression I got during the playoffs. Maybe you didn't.
OK, I'll buy the Colts and Eagles as star studded. But the Steelers? While it may fit into your own personal "us against the world" scenario, the notion that the Steelers have more "stars" than the Patriots is laughable. Neither team has a true marketable personality (outside of their home regions) with the exception of Tom Brady.Or did I miss the Bus sitting next to Condoleeza at the State of the Union address?
 

valhallan

Footballguy
A desire for the more star-studded Colts, Steelers, or Eagles to beat the boring Patriots is just the general impression I got during the playoffs. Maybe you didn't.
OK, I'll buy the Colts and Eagles as star studded. But the Steelers? While it may fit into your own personal "us against the world" scenario, the notion that the Steelers have more "stars" than the Patriots is laughable. Neither team has a true marketable personality (outside of their home regions) with the exception of Tom Brady.Or did I miss the Bus sitting next to Condoleeza at the State of the Union address?
Yes the Steelers are certainly not equal to the Colts and Eagles in terms of stars, but I think you're forgetting about a guy named Ben Roethlisberger. The dude is a 22-year old rookie but already has a famous sandwich named after him and his own brand of beef jerky. Plus, imo, Pittsburgh is one of the golden franchises along with Green Bay and a few others that the NFL always wants to see do well because of their enormous fan bases.
 

Clayton Gray

Just call me Carlton
Staff member
How's it so out of character? I've seen Patriots players showboat plenty of times.They're a team of professional athletes. I don't understand the need of some of their supporters to endow them with some unusual quality of "class".They're a very good football team, but I don't see them as any classier than anyone else.
:goodposting:
 

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
We all know why CJ sent the Bismol - it had something to do with promoting some charity as well
Actually, I don't know that story. Can you fill me in? Seriously.
Moss made fun of fans mooning his team - he didn't go out and play bully like the pats did to the steelers fan. Theres a difference between mocking someone out of provacation and mocking good-natured fans and a team.
You were the guy crying 2 weeks ago because one of the Pats was mocking the good-natured Steelers fans by waiving a Terrible Towel. SO, now its okay? :confused:
Granted TO in his early years was C***y but he never claimed not to be - like the PATS claim to be humble in every interview.
So, you DON'T remember this season, in week 5 I believe, Owens "mocking" Ray Lewis? Also, are you saying that it would be okay if the Patriots were openly cocky and then mocked the team, but since you didn't have advance warning, they are classless?
 

BigActionMike

Footballguy
I'd be willing to bet that more than one "wing-flapping" patriot fan had his ### beat by disgruntled philly fans in jacksonville before midnight!!! It was likely out of frustration... TO is in the limelight and has to accept that he is a target b/c of his antics. He has been my favorite player for years, and doubly so now that he is an EAGLE... kudos to TO for coming out to play and not making a big deal of it with anything other than his great game!!

 

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