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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (1 Viewer)

Captain Fantastic said:
Just a note, I love JC and I hope he comes back stronger/faster/better than ever, but I think it serves us well to remember that running back -- probably more so than any other position in the NFL -- is a "cliff-drop" position. Very few RBs see a gradual deterioration of skills where they put 1,400 yds one year, then slow to 1,200 yards the next, then 1,000 then ___. When they drop, they plummet.

JC might come back and be awesome, but there is a very real possibility that at his age and coming off another season-ending injury, he just isn't the same guy. If that's the case, we're likely to see a 2-3 game experiment by the coaching staff to give JC carries and see if he's "back". If he doesn't prove it in that time, then odds are Ware will be the primary RB the remainder of the season (barring continued fumbling in which case it reverts to West).

Not pimping Ware or devaluing JC, just adding my  :2cents:  on the reality of RB decline in the sport.
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Yep, and this is what I have been betting on.  Not because I thik it's a good even money bet that JC won't come back.  Far from it, I drafted Ware late (and CJ not at all) so I see this as a high upside, low investment bet.  If it works for me I may have a league winner in Ware, if not it didn't cost me much.  The idea of dropping Ware (as some apparently have in other leagues) seems incredibly short-sighted to me.  If he's avail in you league, scoop him up.  If you have him, keep him.  If you can acquire him cheaply from someone who is on the verge of dropping him, do so.  But, would I drop him because JC practiced with the scout team, played a few snaps, and rested for a week?  hell no!  Does that mean I am guaranteeing Ware will out-snap JC this week? Nope.  I'm a show-me kinda guy, so until I see the pro-bowl JC getting 60% of the snaps I won't even consider dropping Ware.

 
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I don't expect you to read through multiple pages but I'll just say I agree and may have been saying this for two months. 

 
Jamaal Charles (knee) said he is "100 percent."
Charles also confirmed the Chiefs originally planned to sit him through the bye week, but the injury to Charcandrick West accelerated his return. Charles only played 11 snaps against the Steelers, but he should be much more involved against the Raiders Week 6. Still, Spencer Ware has earned a role in the backfield. Charles will be more of an RB2 in that matchup. Oct 3 - 8:52 AM
 
 
32 Counter Pass said:
Jamaal Charles (knee) said he is "100 percent."
Charles also confirmed the Chiefs originally planned to sit him through the bye week, but the injury to Charcandrick West accelerated his return. Charles only played 11 snaps against the Steelers, but he should be much more involved against the Raiders Week 6. Still, Spencer Ware has earned a role in the backfield. Charles will be more of an RB2 in that matchup. Oct 3 - 8:52 AM
 
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8 days ago.

Let's see if he's "limited" in practice tmrw.

 
Probably the last chance to buy low here before they come out of the bye and Ware's workload is relatively stable... :boxing:

 
JFS171 said:
Probably the last chance to buy low here before they come out of the bye and Ware's workload is relatively stable... :boxing:
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I'd rather sell here if I'm honest. His ceiling is so high, which is tempting, but his floor isn't high enough to merit starting him. I hope he goes off this week so I can offload him for a QB.

 
Absolutely Nothing said:
I'd rather sell here if I'm honest. His ceiling is so high, which is tempting, but his floor isn't high enough to merit starting him. I hope he goes off this week so I can offload him for a QB.
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He's still an interesting play for dynasty leagues.  I think he may not be rosterable for redrafts though

 
JC is practicing in full so I think we're gong to get an opportunity to see how this shakes out right away.

This match-up on paper pretty great. It would have set up Ware for a good game if JC wasn't ready because it looks like they're quite susceptible to inside rushers..

Ingram - 12/58/0

Freeman - 17/93/0

Murray - 16/114/1

West - 21/113/1

Gordon - 16/69/0

We'll see what happens.

wilked said:
He's still an interesting play for dynasty leagues. I think he may not be rosterable for redrafts though
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He is not droppable unless you're in a 10-team league with short benches.

 
wilked said:
He's still an interesting play for dynasty leagues.  I think he may not be rosterable for redrafts though
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I think he is rosterable, in the same way Bilal Powell is rosterable. He's just not startable in redraft until either Charles goes down or we get a sense of how this offense is going to run. I agree though, in Dynasty he is a major hold, but in redraft he's trading fodder to believers.

 
Jamaal Charles' 'training wheels' coming off




Jamaal Charles (knee) said he's ready to go for Week 6 against the Raiders, and the "training wheels" are coming off.
Giddy up. Charles made his season debut in the Week 4 embarrassing loss to the Steelers, but we all knew he wasn't going to play more than a handful of snaps that night. Now coming out of the bye with several weeks of practice under his belt, Charles seems ready to get back to being a major part of the offense. Spencer Ware will remain a factor out of the backfield, but Charles should be the 1A to Ware's 1B here. A date with the Raiders is about as rosy a matchup possible.

 
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Futz said:
So here we go. I own both Ware and JC. While it's tempting to think JC and his high end #s you drafted him for, Ware is still the play until we see differently right?
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Strike this from the record your honor. I didn't expect the JC/Reid barrage of confidence inducing statements. JC it is.

 
I own JC but not Ware.  Tried to trade for Ware twice before week 1 and before week 3.  Offered Crowell for Ware straight up and Denied.  So glad he rejected those offers btw.  

Now here we are in week 6 and he's coming to me offering ware for Jeremy Hill.  Straight up. Hells no!  

He lost his sell high opportunity and now he either has to pay up in addition to ware to get a staring Rb from me or keep ware and hope for a JC injury or for JC to suck.  And his other rbs are garbage.  And he knows that he isn't going to get more for Ware from anyone else in the league than he will get from me right now as the JC owner.  

I actually like Ware and think he will still be serviceable down the stretch in standard leagues even with JC.  But he's no longer worth a starting Rb price tag.  

 
rickyg said:
I own JC but not Ware.  Tried to trade for Ware twice before week 1 and before week 3.  Offered Crowell for Ware straight up and Denied.  So glad he rejected those offers btw.  

Now here we are in week 6 and he's coming to me offering ware for Jeremy Hill.  Straight up. Hells no!  

He lost his sell high opportunity and now he either has to pay up in addition to ware to get a staring Rb from me or keep ware and hope for a JC injury or for JC to suck.  And his other rbs are garbage.  And he knows that he isn't going to get more for Ware from anyone else in the league than he will get from me right now as the JC owner.  

I actually like Ware and think he will still be serviceable down the stretch in standard leagues even with JC.  But he's no longer worth a starting Rb price tag.  
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Personally, Jeremy Hill looks like #### to me.  And the Bengals rarely give him consistent workloads anyway, plus Gio siphons everything.  I would MUCH rather own Ware.

 
10 team money league, I picked him up last night after he was cut last week. Bid 4 bucks, no one else bid on him, Charles owner must have been asleep at the wheel there.

 
rickyg said:
I own JC but not Ware.  Tried to trade for Ware twice before week 1 and before week 3.  Offered Crowell for Ware straight up and Denied.  So glad he rejected those offers btw.  

Now here we are in week 6 and he's coming to me offering ware for Jeremy Hill.  Straight up. Hells no!  

He lost his sell high opportunity and now he either has to pay up in addition to ware to get a staring Rb from me or keep ware and hope for a JC injury or for JC to suck.  And his other rbs are garbage.  And he knows that he isn't going to get more for Ware from anyone else in the league than he will get from me right now as the JC owner.  

I actually like Ware and think he will still be serviceable down the stretch in standard leagues even with JC.  But he's no longer worth a starting Rb price tag.  
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Take ware for Hill and run to the bank. You already own jc. Hill is roster cancer. He blows up on the bench and gives you 2 points when you put him in. Ware will give you insurance for the fruitful kc rb position.

 
mnmplayer said:
Take ware for Hill and run to the bank. You already own jc. Hill is roster cancer. He blows up on the bench and gives you 2 points when you put him in. Ware will give you insurance for the fruitful kc rb position.
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For once I'm going to have to agree with mnm. Hill goes off at the wrong times and is hard to predict. He will only have sustainable value if gio is hurt. Plus we still have not seen what Jamaal can do yet.

 
rickyg said:
He lost his sell high opportunity and now he either has to pay up in addition to ware to get a staring Rb from me or keep ware and hope for a JC injury or for JC to suck.  
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Hill is in a timeshare also. I'd be willing to bet Ware outscores Hill as often as Hill outscores Ware the rest of the season - plus Ware already had his bye. I'd strongly consider that offer, if it was me.

 
JFS171 said:
Personally, Jeremy Hill looks like #### to me.  And the Bengals rarely give him consistent workloads anyway, plus Gio siphons everything.  I would MUCH rather own Ware.
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Guess I could have just scrolled down before replying - but guess I can drive home your point a bit more.

 
With West coming back, Charles is the guy to own here. The backfield becomes much more crowded with West back, even if Charles goes down again. I'll probably start trade talks with the JC owner, see whether he values Ware more than I do. 

 
Absolutely Nothing said:
With West coming back, Charles is the guy to own here. The backfield becomes much more crowded with West back, even if Charles goes down again. I'll probably start trade talks with the JC owner, see whether he values Ware more than I do. 
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Even in redraft, I feel that approach is a mistake.  But that's just me...

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Guess I could have just scrolled down before replying - but guess I can drive home your point a bit more.
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Interesting feedback guys ty!  I think we may have a different opinion on hill which is where the disconnect is coming from. I can you him as a larger part of that time and when healthy does look good. This is also a standard scoring league.  While I realize that ware will be the gl back in KC he will still be the smaller part of the timeshare with JC.   

So i think it will be 60/40 hill to gio and 60/40 (at best, maybe 70/30) JC to ware ROS barring injury.   

Weather gets colder and Cincy commits more to the run.  Hill has more Tds than any other Rb since his rookie year.  

The negatives for hill - the Cincy o line seems to be in disarray.  Chiefs o line seems good and their schedule is better.  

 
Chiefs OC Brad Childress said the team is going to "sprinkle" in Jamaal Charles "where we feel he's most effective."

Hmmmm..

I might start Ware.

 
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rickyg said:
Interesting feedback guys ty!  I think we may have a different opinion on hill which is where the disconnect is coming from. I can you him as a larger part of that time and when healthy does look good. This is also a standard scoring league.  While I realize that ware will be the gl back in KC he will still be the smaller part of the timeshare with JC.   

So i think it will be 60/40 hill to gio and 60/40 (at best, maybe 70/30) JC to ware ROS barring injury.   

Weather gets colder and Cincy commits more to the run.  Hill has more Tds than any other Rb since his rookie year.  

The negatives for hill - the Cincy o line seems to be in disarray.  Chiefs o line seems good and their schedule is better.  
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I'll take a shot at that narrative...Hill played 16 games last year -- in the first 8 he carried the ball 104 times and added 5 catches.  In the last 8 games of the season he carried the ball 119 times and added 7 catches.  That's 12 additional touches in the second half than the first, a difference of a whopping 1.5 touches per game. 

If you look at the last 5 weeks of the year, then I could maybe see a workload spike - 22, 7, 19, 19, and 16 carries.  But what did he do with them?  Total yards: 98, 24, 31, 61, 115.

Plus there have been reports on Hill walking around the locker room in a sling and his chest injury being worse than previously reported (supposedly why he was benched last week).  Give me the healthy Ware all day long.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Chiefs OC Brad Childress said the team is going to "sprinkle" in Jamaal Charles "where we feel he's most effective."

Hmmmm..

I might start Ware.
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C-Bound said:
So is he "110%" or a rain cloud?

Pete Sweeney ‏@pgsween  13m13 minutes agoKansas City, MO
"We'll sprinkle him in where we feel he's most effective." - OC Brad Childress on using Jamaal Charles. Chiefs want to work him back in.
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I don't think anything's changed from what I've said the whole time - Ware's role is stable, and likely unchanged.  The 10-15 touches that had been going to West now go to Charles, and he's really good in that role. 

Different coaching staff, but it's kinda like the 2010 split between Charles and Jones.  Thomas Jones got 245 carries that year (which he kinda sucked with -- 3.7 YPC), good for 896 yards and 6 TDs.  Charles got 230 touches (which he was extremely efficient with - 6.4 YPC). good for 1467 and 5 TDs.

Those break down to 15 carries a game for Jones, and 13 carries a game for Charles.  Jones got most of the red zone work.

I see the same thing -- Ware gets 15-18 carries a game, plus red zone work and all goal line.  Charles gets 12-15 a game, most passing down usage, and will break some long TDs.

ETA -- look at the upcoming schedule -- Raiders, Saints, Colts, Jags... they're going to run the ball into the ground for the next month.  Then they get Panthers, Bucs, Broncos, which won't be cake walks, but they're probably not as difficult as they looked on paper to start the season.  We just saw Carolina and Tampa both run all over each other, and the Chiefs are a better running team than either... plus Freeman and Coleman just carved up Denver.  They close the fantasy season with Falcons, Raiders, Titans, Broncos.  Hell, a viable strategy may be to acquire and play both of them every week... probably looking at 30-35 touches, including 5-7 receptions, 150-180 yards, and at least a TD if not a couple.  You could do a lot worse...

 
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Other than when West and Charles have both been hobbled, Ware has shared ~50% of a committee in terms of snaps, going back to his emergence last year. I predicted that would continue early this year and was chased out of this thread by Ware extremists. 

I think this week at least they ease Charles in and he gets no more than the West snaps, while Ware maintains the same role he's had. Against the Raiders that could easily be good for 15+ pts.

Realistically, going forward probably depends on how explosive Charles looks and whether or not Ware's sweaty forearms continue to be an issue. But Jamaal is older and clearly coming off a complicated injury, so it's probably in the Chiefs best interest to limit him if Ware can perform capably in his stead.

Another observation I made early this year was that Ware beat up on #### defenses last year and the real test would be weeks 2-4 this year (Hou, NYJ, Pit). He averaged just over 8 PPG in those games in my 0.5 PPR league.

That said the schedule eases up tremendously going forward (Oak, NO, Ind, Jax, Car, TB, Den, Atl, Oak, Ten, Den). IF he maintains ~50% of the snaps, other than in the three games against Den/Ten, I see him as a very viable RB2. Granted, the last two Ten/Den games are in the fantasy playoffs so there is that.

 
rickyg said:
I own JC but not Ware.  Tried to trade for Ware twice before week 1 and before week 3.  Offered Crowell for Ware straight up and Denied.  So glad he rejected those offers btw.  

Now here we are in week 6 and he's coming to me offering ware for Jeremy Hill.  Straight up. Hells no!  

He lost his sell high opportunity and now he either has to pay up in addition to ware to get a staring Rb from me or keep ware and hope for a JC injury or for JC to suck.  And his other rbs are garbage.  And he knows that he isn't going to get more for Ware from anyone else in the league than he will get from me right now as the JC owner.  

I actually like Ware and think he will still be serviceable down the stretch in standard leagues even with JC.  But he's no longer worth a starting Rb price tag.  
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This funny and this is why I sold Ware after week 1 I sold high and I don't regret it one bit.  It is Dynasty so Ware may turn out to be a stud in the long run but right now I pretty happy selling high.

Tex

 
I'm just watching this game.  I own Ware and not JC.  If Jamaal comes out of the gate and gets 20+ carries + goal line work I'll know where I stand.  Also need to see where West is in the mix now that he's back (though I think with JC in he's a non-factor).  I'll still roster Ware the rest of the year no matter what.  He along with Alfred Morris and CMike are the league winning RB lottery tickets if/when injuries occur.  If you have enough depth through bye weeks I'd hold with clenched fists onto all of them.  But as of now it's all speculation until we see how it plays out on Sunday.

 
I own Ware and JC and am very tempted to play both against OAK. My other options are CJA (tonight unfortunately) and Carlos Hyde.

 
Dizzy said:
I own Ware and JC and am very tempted to play both against OAK. My other options are CJA (tonight unfortunately) and Carlos Hyde.
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I don't think playing both is the best move. If you had to choose one, I'd say Ware and Hyde are your best bets. I don't see KC being overly competitive in this game, with game script not favoring a good fantasy day for both RBs for sure. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
You may be just a tad bit biased. :P
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I hope not.  I'd like to think that I can be objective in my analysis.  If I really believed ware would have a big role every week even with Charles back to 100% I'd pursue thy trade for ware more aggressively. 

I counteroffered hill + Djax for ware and alshon.  Let's see...

 
Right now I'm benching both for Gordon, despite the matchup differences. 

I traded for Ware earlier this year in dynasty. Somewhat feel like I bought high but I'm hopefully Ware will inherit the #1 role by next year. 

 
BigTex said:
This funny and this is why I sold Ware after week 1 I sold high and I don't regret it one bit.  It is Dynasty so Ware may turn out to be a stud in the long run but right now I pretty happy selling high.

Tex
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What did you get? I saw him moved for Moncreif around that time.  Just curious

 
need2know said:
Ppr

Would you guys play ware over gio, forte, or james white?
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I don't want to risk giving an assistant coach answer--but I personally own shares of ware and I would not play him over Gio and Forte this week.   I could see the game flow of the Cinci game being beneficial to Gio--and I could see the same for Forte.   As a proponent of Ware from even before the news of Jamaal came out--I drafted Ware for two reasons. I thought he could be an early season RB1--and then transform into one of the best handcuffs in the game.  I think he did enough to where he'll probably have enough production to be a low end flex option while he is a great handcuff. With that being said--I don't think he gets close to leapfrogging guys like forte while in this status.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I don't want to risk giving an assistant coach answer--but I personally own shares of ware and I would not play him over Gio and Forte this week.   I could see the game flow of the Cinci game being beneficial to Gio--and I could see the same for Forte.   As a proponent of Ware from even before the news of Jamaal came out--I drafted Ware for two reasons. I thought he could be an early season RB1--and then transform into one of the best handcuffs in the game.  I think he did enough to where he'll probably have enough production to be a low end flex option while he is a great handcuff. With that being said--I don't think he gets close to leapfrogging guys like forte while in this status.  
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Thx buddy

 
JFS171 said:
I don't think anything's changed from what I've said the whole time - Ware's role is stable, and likely unchanged.  The 10-15 touches that had been going to West now go to Charles, and he's really good in that role. 

Different coaching staff, but it's kinda like the 2010 split between Charles and Jones.  Thomas Jones got 245 carries that year (which he kinda sucked with -- 3.7 YPC), good for 896 yards and 6 TDs.  Charles got 230 touches (which he was extremely efficient with - 6.4 YPC). good for 1467 and 5 TDs.

Those break down to 15 carries a game for Jones, and 13 carries a game for Charles.  Jones got most of the red zone work.

I see the same thing -- Ware gets 15-18 carries a game, plus red zone work and all goal line.  Charles gets 12-15 a game, most passing down usage, and will break some long TDs.

ETA -- look at the upcoming schedule -- Raiders, Saints, Colts, Jags... they're going to run the ball into the ground for the next month.  Then they get Panthers, Bucs, Broncos, which won't be cake walks, but they're probably not as difficult as they looked on paper to start the season.  We just saw Carolina and Tampa both run all over each other, and the Chiefs are a better running team than either... plus Freeman and Coleman just carved up Denver.  They close the fantasy season with Falcons, Raiders, Titans, Broncos.  Hell, a viable strategy may be to acquire and play both of them every week... probably looking at 30-35 touches, including 5-7 receptions, 150-180 yards, and at least a TD if not a couple.  You could do a lot worse...
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It's funny I look at Page 47 I see caution, I look at Page 46 I see good news.

This is a very good matchup. I guess my main concern is Charles might get goal line touches.

 
Seems like time is up for Ware.  JC will practice in full this week, he seems a shoe in for a large share of the work. Don't think I'm playing Ware in the flex this week.

I hope he still has a nice role but we will see. Ware unfortunately didn't get his number or name called as much as we would have liked the last few weeks. 

 
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