What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)

Agenda? I am just being realistic. Under what circumstance is it good news when your RB stud misses a game from concussion? Only bad news can come. Even if he returns next week he is now tainted. What if he gets hit hard again? It's like getting a shiny new car from the dealership and you can't drive it for a week because it got a huge dent in it (its in the shop). Even if you get it back and the dent looks good as new, the metal isn't as strong as it was and you got a lesson on how vulnerable it is going forward. Can we both agree multiple concussions are bad for RBs? Now that he has one documented concussion, is it unreasonable to think it could happen again? What does the value of Ware do at that point? Explain to me how this is no news, especially after he missed a game because of it when half the guys come back without missing a game?

I hope he comes back and I hope he never gets concussed again in his lifetime, but is that a realistic stance to take with his running style and what we learned about the NFL? There is no agenda. I can give you a long list of careers that have ended from concussions in the NHL/NFL, but why bother as you  didn't even take the study I handed you seriously. I'll just be called a tool or whatever else is dreamed up. But lurkers should beware that Ware could take a massive hit in value going forward. Even if its just a scratch on his record, going forward next year during the draft people will point to missing x number of games from a concussion as real risk. And what happens is he gets another one this year and misses more games? Is that the only time we are allowed to worry? Well since most concussions don't get reported at the HS/college level and 1/3 don't at the NFL level I am going to safely assume Ware has been concussed before in his life, which is why he didn't return without missing any games. I could be wrong about this, but neither of us know for sure, so it definitely takes him down a notch in my mind when I compare him to other options of similar skill level.

I have no agenda. I don't love or hate Ware. Can we both agree that even if he comes back next week, that his value takes a small, if even only incremental hit? Or are you of the stance that he is as good as new? His bell got rung on a hit that did not even look that bad on film. He fell forward on his face, didn't hit the ground hard from the side or neck flexing back to hit the back of his head against the ground. You might say, well his concussion was from another hit then, and to that I say, "then that's even worse because he stayed in and kept playing like Alex Smith did and got his bell rung again enough to make them pull him out of a close game where they needed him."

So again, as I said in my original one liner post, only bad news can come from this. There is absolutely nothing that could possibly be taken as good news from missing a game from concussion. Instead of calling me a tool why doesn't somebody tell me how this is good news or a non news situation?

This is a risk reward scenario here. The value meter will move based upon what happens next week. If you are sitting pretty with a good record and can get equal or better value for Ware in a trade before info breaks then why not mitigate the risk? If you wait until he misses another week his value will plummet and keep dropping for every week he misses. Alternatively, if you feel its not big deal, and the Ware owner thinks its a big deal, try to buy Ware low, especially if you need a shot in the arm for your team that has a losing record. Again his value will go up if he plays and plays well next week, so there is opportunity to gain value in either side of this trade, but if you wait until he plays well, the value opportunity will again be missed. Either way the situation is creating value. If you guys can keep from name calling and just refute this, be my guest. Either way West was a good pickup before the concussion happened which is the timely, actionable advice I gave in this thread.
I don't think anyone thinks it's good that he suffered a concussion. My comment on "no news" was strictly about his availability towards next week. We don't know yet. So we haven't received any news on that until we do.

I did not make the "tool" comment but I can see why some one would ask for you to tone it down. You've been completely over the top in this thread and since you were the most vocal person in support of West in the West thread it may appear you have an "agenda" and are secretly hoping your doom and gloom scenario plays out.

Yes, concussions are bad - if that's your only point then we can agree. However you have jumped the gun on the severity without any news as to him missing this week's game.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is no proof that suffering a concussion means he is more prone to get another one.

If he clears protocol, then the odds of another concussion are the same as any other running back. Not buying this idea that he will be tainted.

 
There is no proof that suffering a concussion means he is more prone to get another one.

If he clears protocol, then the odds of another concussion are the same as any other running back. Not buying this idea that he will be tainted.
:no:  Science: http://scienceline.org/2008/04/ask-heger-concussion/

"The increased susceptibility for a second concussion also comes down to brain chemistry. A concussion causes chemical changes in your brain, which leave the brain unbalanced and more prone to damage for up to a year,"

 
:no:  Science: http://scienceline.org/2008/04/ask-heger-concussion/

"The increased susceptibility for a second concussion also comes down to brain chemistry. A concussion causes chemical changes in your brain, which leave the brain unbalanced and more prone to damage for up to a year,"
Pretty sure that's not a definitive thing. I have heard doctors that study sports med say that there isn't an increased risk after coming out of the protocol. Maybe if you get a concussion and don't get cleared, you are at a higher risk.

 
I agree that suffering a concussion has no "good news" aspect to it.

As far as risk of repeat concussion, the science is mixed at best, and return to play is largely dependent on the individual and their particular course of symptoms.  There is no definitive increased risk, but I can understand hedging your bets that way.

Based on what little we know, Ware likely does carry some small increased risk going forward for a short time.  That's a reasonable stance.

However, West contributes absolutely nothing to any devaluing of Ware.  If one wants to devalue Ware based on the concussion that's cool, but West is just next man up, not a threat to an active Ware's production.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pretty sure that's not a definitive thing. I have heard doctors that study sports med say that there isn't an increased risk after coming out of the protocol. Maybe if you get a concussion and don't get cleared, you are at a higher risk.
I'm glad you guys are "pretty sure" its not a definitive thing cos you heard it from some "sports doctors" somewhere. Care to site any of these doctors? Do they have an agenda? I know the NFL has an agenda to keep lawsuits off their back and so presents the line of reasoning that, "Once the player has passed the protocol, he's fiiiiiiiine."

My evidence comes from Dr. David Hovda, the director of the Brain Injury Research Center at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and Dr. Jamshid Ghajar, the president of the Brain Trauma Foundation (which has conducted 30 years of research) who says, "In sum, suffering a concussion increases your chances for having another one because of the chemical changes that can leave your brain debilitated for up to a year." I encourage you to read their articles in their entirety before passing more judgement upon me. These are PhD accomplished peer reviewed studies, not some FFB jerkoff giving start/sit advice.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 
I'm glad you guys are "pretty sure" its not a definitive thing cos you heard it from some "sports doctors" somewhere. Care to site any of these doctors? Do they have an agenda? I know the NFL has an agenda to keep lawsuits off their back and so presents the line of reasoning that, "Once the player has passed the protocol, he's fiiiiiiiine."

My evidence comes from Dr. David Hovda, the director of the Brain Injury Research Center at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and Dr. Jamshid Ghajar, the president of the Brain Trauma Foundation (which has conducted 30 years of research) who says, "In sum, suffering a concussion increases your chances for having another one because of the chemical changes that can leave your brain debilitated for up to a year." I encourage you to read their articles in their entirety before passing more judgement upon me. These are PhD accomplished peer reviewed studies, not some FFB jerkoff giving start/sit advice.

Don't shoot the messenger.
I said pretty sure because I am pretty sure it was Jene Bramel that said it. There is another doctor that appears on on fantasy podcasts. I do not recall his name. It could be him or I could just be an idiot and have heard/remembered wrong. In no way do I want to misrepresent Jene or anyone else. That is why I said "pretty sure". Like I said, I am "pretty sure".  I am not able to read an entire study right now and face, most of us aren't really able to understand a study on the brain. How much does it increase your chance? That is very important. 

 
Haters gonna hate. Can you refute anything I posted? Thought so.
You posted there wasn't much of a gap between Ware and West in terms of talent. Pretty sure there's quite a bit of stats over a decent sample to refute that. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
icehouse said:
Are those with Ware still handcuffing him with West?
No. I own Ware in 4 leagues and do not own West in any of them. While I was starting Ware in all of them before the concussion, I didn't attempt to pick up West in any league, because IMO I have better options in each case.

 
He's practicing today. I'm not sure if it will be in a limited fashion or not but we'll hear soon enough.

Odds are very good he plays this Sunday.

 
Ware (concussion) back at practice Wednesday




Spencer Ware (concussion) returned to practice Wednesday.
Coach Andy Reid said Tuesday that he was optimistic Ware would play this wee against the Panthers. Getting back on the practice field Wednesday, even if in a limited capacity, is a step in the right direction. It would be an upset if Ware wasn't lined up as the starting running back in Carolina.

Source: BJ Kissel on Twitter
Nov 9 - 12:56 PM


 
Are you guys worried about the matchup? Panthers are good against the run. Would I be crazy to play Pryor, Hopkins and Howard over him?

 
Ware (concussion) back at practice Wednesday




Spencer Ware (concussion) returned to practice Wednesday.
Coach Andy Reid said Tuesday that he was optimistic Ware would play this wee against the Panthers. Getting back on the practice field Wednesday, even if in a limited capacity, is a step in the right direction. It would be an upset if Ware wasn't lined up as the starting running back in Carolina.

Source: BJ Kissel on Twitter
Nov 9 - 12:56 PM
Never in doubt.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Are you guys worried about the matchup? Panthers are good against the run. Would I be crazy to play Pryor, Hopkins and Howard over him?
Nope. CJA and Jaquizz both had good games against CAR and KC's run game is a few notches above both of them (w/ Ware) IMO.

 
You posted there wasn't much of a gap between Ware and West in terms of talent. Pretty sure there's quite a bit of stats over a decent sample to refute that. 
Well I think I said I wasn't as sure as you that the gap was as large as a JAG vs a stud. I said I am not so sure West is a JAG, but I never said he was better or even as good as Ware, just that he has been a productive RB1 in the past in this offense. I also am excited to hear he passed protocol and it looks like he will play this week. If it makes you feel better I also think he is a top 5 back in this offense (when healthy). Really we are in just splitting hairs on West being a good handcuff or just a JAG. Let's be friends. :thumbup:

 
Yeah where is mr doom and gloom.  Oh wait this news should make him happy right?  lmao
Sorry I was pre-occupied with an election for the most powerful seat in the free world. As a Ware owner why in the heck wouldn't I be happy about this news. I do still have some very slight concerns as to how this affects his value in keeper leagues, but in redraft all systems go. I sincerely hope he never has another concussion, but then we are not posting about our hopes and dreams here. It should be reserved for actionable advice and analysis.

 
Are those with Ware still handcuffing him with West?
Maybe only til this weekend...someone just dropped the KC D...I have Minnesota, but thought of going with KC to stream matchups between the two and then hoping Ware doesn't go out again.

Helps that I have Ty Montgomery at RB now...but my other RBS are not helping me do such a thing (Forte and McCoy im happy with...Booker right now, not so much and I already lost Lacy)

 
As for lineup...

Forte, Booker, Ware, Ty Mont at RB or flex.

One will sit...Booker pissed me off, but that NO matchup is so juicy.  I think GB comes out pissed off Sunday against TN and Monty is going to have his best game.  Forte is almost too hard to bench.

May sit Montomery as I may already be playing Adams...just not sure yet.

 
As for lineup...

Forte, Booker, Ware, Ty Mont at RB or flex.

One will sit...Booker pissed me off, but that NO matchup is so juicy.  I think GB comes out pissed off Sunday against TN and Monty is going to have his best game.  Forte is almost too hard to bench.

May sit Montomery as I may already be playing Adams...just not sure yet.
I would sit forte.  that la def is pretty stout

 
As for lineup...

Forte, Booker, Ware, Ty Mont at RB or flex.

One will sit...Booker pissed me off, but that NO matchup is so juicy.  I think GB comes out pissed off Sunday against TN and Monty is going to have his best game.  Forte is almost too hard to bench.

May sit Montomery as I may already be playing Adams...just not sure yet.
 I literally have the same four guys. Ware is on my bench currently, but that is subject to change over the course of the week. Not in love with him @ Panthers.

 
Nope. CJA and Jaquizz both had good games against CAR and KC's run game is a few notches above both of them (w/ Ware) IMO.
And David Johnson had 10 carries for 24 yards two weeks ago. Tampa has always had good luck (Martín especially) against us and Anderson was week 1. Ware may get his in the passing game like Johnson, but I'd bet we focus on stopping the run with Maclin likely out.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Are you guys worried about the matchup? Panthers are good against the run. Would I be crazy to play Pryor, Hopkins and Howard over him?
I have Howard too. Not scared of the Panties but KC may use Ware sparingly his first game back. :2cents:

 
And David Johnson had 10 carries for 24 yards two weeks ago. Tampa has always had good luck (Martín especially) against us and Anderson was week 1. Ware may get his in the passing game like Johnson, but I'd bet we focus on stopping the run with Maclin likely out.
Arz offense is a mess.  I would blame Carson Palmer as much as car def

 
I think KC has an advantage over AZ for the RB matchup against Carolina, but it has nothing to do w the RB. It's Kelce.  Kuechly is a bad matchup for pass catching RBs, but I think he will be more occupied w Kelce.  AZ did not have the same threat at TE to concern Carolina. (DJ also had over 80 yds receiving against AZ) I think Ware will be asked to do more catching out of the backfield this game w Kelce taking Kuechly out of the plays.  It's gonna be a pick your poison for Carolina. Total armchair coaching, but that's how I would attack them.  

 
I think KC has an advantage over AZ for the RB matchup against Carolina, but it has nothing to do w the RB. It's Kelce.  Kuechly is a bad matchup for pass catching RBs, but I think he will be more occupied w Kelce.  AZ did not have the same threat at TE to concern Carolina. (DJ also had over 80 yds receiving against AZ) I think Ware will be asked to do more catching out of the backfield this game w Kelce taking Kuechly out of the plays.  It's gonna be a pick your poison for Carolina. Total armchair coaching, but that's how I would attack them.  
Good point.  would also say kc is the more efficient offense over arz.  if they hit a couple long passes, which they prob will like most teams vs car, it will open the run game.  car has lost a bunch of games and their defense is a big reason why.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top