Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (3 Viewers)

[mnmplayer]

I think you were over blowing the concussion concern because you were emotionally invested in West taking snaps from Ware because you came in here and said they were close in talent. You thought they would have more if a 60/40 split because iyo the talent was close. Once that was proven wrong you jumped on this concussion scare so you could maybe have your "I told you guys moment" but really you're just moving the Goal post constantly. 

Emotional attachment to West? LMAO If you look at my advice, the first mention of West as a handcuff was on the Jamaal Charles news that he was going to see Dr. Andrews. I said now its clear that West is the backup to Ware. I held him for 5 whole days (which did pay off by the way) and now I am emotionally invested in West? Meanwhile I have had Ware on my team since the draft and winning games because of his production, but I am somehow emotionally attached to West? Please show me the post when I said West would take over Ware's job. Also I never said they were close in talent. I said West put up RB1 numbers in this offense as the starter last year. These are facts, not emotions. 

 

[Milkman]

Emotional attachment to West? LMAO If you look at my advice, the first mention of West as a handcuff was on the Jamaal Charles news that he was going to see Dr. Andrews. I said now its clear that West is the backup to Ware. I held him for 5 whole days (which did pay off by the way) and now I am emotionally invested in West? Meanwhile I have had Ware on my team since the draft and winning games because of his production, but I am somehow emotionally attached to West? Please show me the post when I said West would take over Ware's job. Also I never said they were close in talent. I said West put up RB1 numbers in this offense as the starter last year. These are facts, not emotions. 

If you say so. You win. I don't have the energy to find the comment. You're right. Ware is a top 5 RB with a terrible opportunity because West is there. 

 

[mnmplayer]

If you say so. You win. I don't have the energy to find the comment. You're right. Ware is a top 5 RB with a terrible opportunity because West is there. 

IF we take a step back, you are to be commended for identifying Ware's talent before the general consensus caught on, and admitting that you might have been wrong about his opportunity shows rare maturity on these boards. I agree with a lot of what you have to say on Ware and in the Tyrel Williams thread and you were right on with Ware's talent. I have seen you debate other's about it so I can understand why you are defensive about his talent. There is no reason we can't keep it classy going forward. Keep contributing as you bring good insight on a lot of situations.

 

[Steeler]

You girls are both pretty... please take this pissing match to PM.

 

[mnmplayer]

You girls are both pretty... please take this pissing match to PM.

totally necessary for you to make that comment. Thanks for peeing in the pool.

 

[SCT]

IF we take a step back, you are to be commended for identifying Ware's talent before the general consensus caught on, and admitting that you might have been wrong about his opportunity shows rare maturity on these boards. I agree with a lot of what you have to say on Ware and in the Tyrel Williams thread and you were right on with Ware's talent. I have seen you debate other's about it so I can understand why you are defensive about his talent. There is no reason we can't keep it classy going forward. Keep contributing as you bring good insight on a lot of situations.

aaaand cut!

 

[shadyridr]

 5 RB with better opportunity.....

Bell

DJ

Elliot 

Murray

Gordon

Having trouble naming a 6th....Freeman I guess but Coleman coming back.

Still top 5 RB with top 10 opportunity and a soft schedule.....Seems like a RB1 ROS to me. 

Like I said, my opinion is strictly fantasy related and not talent related.

Here are his points in my league: 29, 11, 8, 10, 23, 20, 5, INJ, 8

Here are his total TDs: 3

Whether it be his OLine, his coaches infatuation with West, his coaches lack of playcalling imagination, Alex Smith, etc its hard to say he is a set it and forget it RB1. Im not just talking about this game.

I would also rank Ajayi, McCoy, Blount, & Freeman over him

I think hes in the same tier as Forte, Howard, and Gore as high end RB2s. I hope Im wrong. Hes currently my RB2 behind DJ so Ill keep throwing him out there.

 

[need2know]

Like I said, my opinion is strictly fantasy related and not talent related.

Here are his points in my league: 29, 11, 8, 10, 23, 20, 5, INJ, 8

Here are his total TDs: 3

Whether it be his OLine, his coaches infatuation with West, his coaches lack of playcalling imagination, Alex Smith, etc its hard to say he is a set it and forget it RB1. Im not just talking about this game.

I would also rank Ajayi, McCoy, Blount, & Freeman over him

I think hes in the same tier as Forte, Howard, and Gore as high end RB2s. I hope Im wrong. Hes currently my RB2 behind DJ so Ill keep throwing him out there.

Seems reasonable 

 

[mnmplayer]

I'm sure it's been said here, so sorry for repeat but it was one of those games not conducive to points for RBs. Fall behind by 3 scores, throw, then Panthers had a 22 play drive (team record) which ate up clock. Then INT return for TD, which a) almost set up for short TD run but, NOT! And that eliminated an offensive series.

Your examples hold true, which highlights the risk of this situation, especially when sharing snaps. The predictability of game script and run defense has also proven to be elusive. Pitt/Ind (half)/Hou were set up for big performances that didn't play out because of game script or whatever excuse you want to bring. OAK/NO/SD were easy matchups and set up for huge games and he delivered. CAR was a tough matchup so give him a pass. NYJ was middling and KC won 24-3, yet he didn't produce. He had 6 easy matchups and only produced in half of them, was in a great situation with NYJ and didn't produce. Car was his only real tough matchup thus far.

He's only 50/50 on easy matchups thus far, and 0-2 vs middling and tough matchups. The good news is that on paper, he has 4 easy matchups on tap TB/ATL/DEN/OAK, but I can see game script not cooperating vs OAK (good offense could jump out to a lead) and in the @ATL and @DEN games things could get out of hand game script wise as well. TENN might also be tough week 15 not from a game script but from a tough run D perspective. All this just imho.

 

[J R]

Your examples hold true, which highlights the risk of this situation, especially when sharing snaps. The predictability of game script and run defense has also proven to be elusive. Pitt/Ind (half)/Hou were set up for big performances that didn't play out because of game script or whatever excuse you want to bring. OAK/NO/SD were easy matchups and set up for huge games and he delivered. CAR was a tough matchup so give him a pass. NYJ was middling and KC won 24-3, yet he didn't produce. He had 6 easy matchups and only produced in half of them, was in a great situation with NYJ and didn't produce. Car was his only real tough matchup thus far.

He's only 50/50 on easy matchups thus far, and 0-2 vs middling and tough matchups. The good news is that on paper, he has 4 easy matchups on tap TB/ATL/DEN/OAK, but I can see game script not cooperating vs OAK (good offense could jump out to a lead) and in the @ATL and @DEN games things could get out of hand game script wise as well. TENN might also be tough week 15 not from a game script but from a tough run D perspective. All this just imho.

This sounds right to me. KC's offense isn't very good right now, which probably means the game scripts are hard to predict and the RZ touches are not there. They have been under 300 yds 4 games in a row, with 2 total offensive TDs in that stretch. Carolina came into this game giving up 275 passing ypg and KC threw 38 times for 7 yds per completion. Not going to loosen the defense up that way.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

What was the snap count for West/Ware vs Car?  Thx..

 

[avina1]

What was the snap count for West/Ware vs Car?  Thx..

I'm seeing 64% for Ware, 31% for West.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

I'm seeing 64% for Ware, 31% for West.

Gracias.

 

[Milkman]

I'm seeing 64% for Ware, 31% for West.

With ware pulled because a possible concussion. Could have easily been 70% for Ware and 25% for West. 

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

With ware pulled because a possible concussion. Could have easily been 70% for Ware and 25% for West. 

this happened again this week? ugh

 

[Milkman]

this happened again this week? ugh

Yes he was pulled for a series or so. 

 

[Power Monster]

Regardless of distribution he is going into all my lineups until The season ends. Cost me a game last week in one of my main leagues. With the way the Raiders are playing and Denver hanging tough this is going to be some great football coming up. 

 

[avina1]

With ware pulled because a possible concussion. Could have easily been 70% for Ware and 25% for West. 

and they were down like 17-0 at one point I believe. Chiefs more often than not are going to be keeping it close in games rest of season. Ware will still be a low-end RB1.

 

[iamkoza]

and they were down like 17-0 at one point I believe. Chiefs more often than not are going to be keeping it close in games rest of season. Ware will still be a low-end RB1.

will he be though? he's had 3 good/great games and 5 mediocre/#### games... 6 if you count the concussion game.  i still see west on the field way too much.... if this guy is the next charles he needs to be playing 80% of the snaps and catching a  LOT more passes to be a true RB1.  disapointed and very concerned moving forward.

 

[JWebs85]

The Chiefs next 4 are against suspect run defenses. Should give Ware some better opportunities to produce. I'm expecting big production this week at home against Tampa. 

 

[sho nuff]

will he be though? he's had 3 good/great games and 5 mediocre/#### games... 6 if you count the concussion game.  i still see west on the field way too much.... if this guy is the next charles he needs to be playing 80% of the snaps and catching a  LOT more passes to be a true RB1.  disapointed and very concerned moving forward.

Yeah...once Forte's bye week is up...he may be my back and forth flex option.  McCoy and Forte as my RBs...WR2 options will be Fitz, Kelvin, Adams...then the leftovers and Ware (well, and Booker and Rawls if he gets back and takes over) to be moved around at Flex.

Not a bad option to have...but not the plug in as RB1 or 2 each week and expect great numbers.

 

[SCT]

As an owner since pre-season, I kind of feel like we all got overexcited about week 1 and then the one other time he went off.  The numbers are telling us he's not quite the guy we thought but hope springs eternal.

 

[Gandalf]

As an owner since pre-season, I kind of feel like we all got overexcited about week 1 and then the one other time he went off.  The numbers are telling us he's not quite the guy we thought but hope springs eternal.

Really? Look beyond the numbers. He had a concussion. Maybe for this year but in dynasty - watching him run - he passes every eye test.  Charles is done.  Everything is lined up for Ware to be an RB1 the next 3 seasons.

 

[need2know]

Really need him this week.  he is overdue for a td

 

[Milkman]

Or two.....

 

[Power Monster]

Or 3...

 

[Dizzy]

Or 3...

Sold! I like the way you guys think.

 

[SCT]

Really? Look beyond the numbers. He had a concussion. Maybe for this year but in dynasty - watching him run - he passes every eye test.  Charles is done.  Everything is lined up for Ware to be an RB1 the next 3 seasons.

Oh absolutely agree for dynasty....I've been saying JC was done since pre-season.  So ya, this year.  Our expectations each week a little high. 

 

[drfeelgood]

As an owner since pre-season, I kind of feel like we all got overexcited about week 1 and then the one other time he went off.  The numbers are telling us he's not quite the guy we thought but hope springs eternal.

He is a RB 2 based on carries, passes, and touchdowns. West will continue to get time on the field too. Some of the Chiefs play calling is suspect. Reids time management is always suspect.

 

[Bucsfan5493]

Jordan Howard ran all over the Bucs D last week, he was pretty consistently breaking off 8-12 yard runs. I think he had 89 carries at halftime on only 13 or so carries but then the game got out of hand and he fumbled/got hurt. Gameflow should also be in Ware's favor this week as I really don't see us beating the Chiefs in KC, where they haven't lost in over a year. I would be pretty disappointed with anything less than 15 points (unless this means the Bucs somehow win and the gameflow isn't in his favor). He should definitely get into the endzone in this matchup.

 

[shadyridr]

Jordan Howard ran all over the Bucs D last week, he was pretty consistently breaking off 8-12 yard runs. I think he had 89 carries at halftime on only 13 or so carries but then the game got out of hand and he fumbled/got hurt. Gameflow should also be in Ware's favor this week as I really don't see us beating the Chiefs in KC, where they haven't lost in over a year. I would be pretty disappointed with anything less than 15 points (unless this means the Bucs somehow win and the gameflow isn't in his favor). He should definitely get into the endzone in this matchup.

Howard also has 4 100 yard rushing games on the year compared to Ware's 1. They simply do not give Ware enough carries.

 

[Weebs210]

Howard also has 4 100 yard rushing games on the year compared to Ware's 1. They simply do not give Ware enough carries.

Ware has had 4 100+ all purpose yard games to be fair. One 96 yd all purpose yards game as well.

 

[Dope]

To paraphrase the late great Denny Green...Ware is exactly who we thought he'd be.

When this season began, in redraft he was a 10th-ish round pick (i got him 13th in an 18 round draft). In dynasty he was a border-line stash "fingers-crossed" player.

Now that we are in late November, I think that if you treat him as the RB2/3 you drafted/stashed (with RB1 upside) , that's exactly what he is right now. However, If you traded FOR him during the season, you bought high, but even so...you have a High Floor RB2 with high Ceiling RB1 upside. I've made wayyyy worse trades.

Also, 5 of the next 6 weeks are some juicy matchups. I'd say...take your 10 points (non-ppr) and everything else is icing. And if I'm guessing right, he should score anywhere from 60-120 points (again non-ppr) for the next 6 weeks. i'm thinking just north of 100.

 

[need2know]

This has a chance to be one of ware's best games.  pls Andy don't screw this up 

 

[red]

This has a chance to be one of ware's best games.  pls Andy don't screw this up 

this game should be telling at least.  either we see what we've been seeing--frustration at under utilization but a steady if not overwhelming performance--or he breaks out against a truly susceptible defense.  either way, the results of this match up should shed light on what we can expect going forward: continued underutilization and frustration versus fully healthy with the #1 crown on his head on a playoff contending team.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

This has a chance to be one of ware's best games.  pls Andy don't screw this up 

He will

 

[Power Monster]

Its clear to me that the path to the playoffs for KC is going to rely on their defense, running game and big play capability (not a strength of the offense). Its now or never for Ware to take the spotlight and shoulder the load or this will be solid defense and Santos leading them to low scoring wins. 

 

[mnmplayer]

With Forte and Tyrell Williams on bye and Alshon all the sudden unavailable, I don't have the luxury of benching Ware again this week, but this is a cake matchup at home against a bad run d, so I expect at least 15 to 20 points ppr. I just can't see a game script that isn't going to be positive for Ware this week barring inj and I wouldn't be suprised at all if he hit 30+ points.

Seems like a lot of people are pretty gloomy on Ware going forward, but if you got him, this is the week to start him as its one of his best matchups/game scripts left.

 

[Gandalf]

With Forte and Tyrell Williams on bye and Alshon all the sudden unavailable, I don't have the luxury of benching Ware again this week, but this is a cake matchup at home against a bad run d, so I expect at least 15 to 20 points ppr. I just can't see a game script that isn't going to be positive for Ware this week barring inj and I wouldn't be suprised at all if he hit 30+ points.

Seems like a lot of people are pretty gloomy on Ware going forward, but if you got him, this is the week to start him as its one of his best matchups/game scripts left.

I'm not gloomy. Starting with confidence. What makes people gloomy? Because he had a concussion???

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I'm seeing 64% for Ware, 31% for West.

well I`M seeing 65% for Ware and 30 % for West

 

[Team Smokin']

While my season may not exactly rest on Ware's production, he could very well be the difference! I think he will.

When Martin went down and with  Ingram's stock falling (except for when I plugged him in for Ware on a bye ), I now play Ware, Howard, and Blount (in my flex). If Ware can come through and get 100 yards from scrimmage and find paydirt for these next several weeks it will make a big difference. No, a HUGE difference! That's how close wins, loses, and points become. I know having played this for over 25 years now that it sometimes comes down to a TD, a FG, or even a fumble recovery.

LET'S GO SPENCER WARE

 

[SCT]

Done.

 

[Milkman]

I'm starting with confidence. He's a top 10 RB option the ROS. He's do for some TD's.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Ware averaged 4.7ypc vs. CAR, a team that is allowing 3.4ypc to RBs on the year. The reason it's a poor match-up has to do with the fact that RBs don't usually get voluminous workloads vs. them, instead teams opt to throw on them because their secondary is trash.

TB is a much softer match-up, giving up 4.3ypc and the 8th most PPG (21) to RBs this year. Seriously, I'm not even remotely worried about him this week. A 20 burger is on the docket.

 

[omally]

Ware averaged 4.7ypc vs. CAR, a team that is allowing 3.4ypc to RBs on the year. The reason it's a poor match-up has to do with the fact that RBs don't usually get voluminous workloads vs. them, instead teams opt to throw on them because their secondary is trash.

The Panthers only allowed Alex Smith 165 yards passing. Not bad for a trashy secondary. Of course Brees will probably toss 300+ on them tonight. I hope not, but it is possible.

 

[need2know]

The Panthers only allowed Alex Smith 165 yards passing. Not bad for a trashy secondary. Of course Brees will probably toss 300+ on them tonight. I hope not, but it is possible.

Alex smith was once again horrible in that game vs car.  horrible ypa.  horrible 3rd down conversion rate.  

 

[SameSongNDance]

The Panthers only allowed Alex Smith 165 yards passing. Not bad for a trashy secondary. Of course Brees will probably toss 300+ on them tonight. I hope not, but it is possible.

Smith has been playing poorly, missing throws and etc. This was the case of a stoppable force meeting a moveable object. It was actually the worst performance by a QB vs. CAR this season.

 

[omally]

The Panthers only allowed Alex Smith 165 yards passing. Not bad for a trashy secondary. Of course Brees will probably toss 300+ on them tonight. I hope not, but it is possible.

Smith has been playing poorly, missing throws and etc. This was the case of a stoppable force meeting a moveable object. It was actually the worst performance by a QB vs. CAR this season.

Reid likes to throw too. He always has. He is terrible at time management.  They should include Ware more in the passing game. He was wide open about 15 yards on the right side of the field near the end of the game, and Alex kept looking downfield for the big play, and of course it didn't work out.

 

[JIslander]

Smith has been playing poorly, missing throws and etc. This was the case of a stoppable force meeting a moveable object. It was actually the worst performance by a QB vs. CAR this season.

Yes, at least 2 wide open TDs missed as I recall;  Kelce and Hill or Maclin.

 

[Milkman]

1st and goal at the 4 and Ware who might literally be the best GL back in the league is ignored. Not a good look there guys........