St. Louis Police release cell phone video of Powell shooting (1 Viewer)

[meatwad1]

I'm not sure why the cops wouldn't use their tasers. Can somone explain?

Because tasers only do so much. Go to youtube and search "taser" or "tasered" or whatever. Watch the ones where there is no effect.

Exactly. Tasers frequently do nothing... especially if the person is under the influence.

Did he actually have a knife? I'm watching on my phone and can't see.

If he did, I don't think you can blame the cops. In general, when the cops point guns at you and you walk towards them menacingly saying "Shoot me mother####er," well, I don't like your chances.

Exactly. This was suicide by cop. Period. EVERYONE in the world knows that if you have a weapon, and walk menacingly toward cops there is exactly ONE outcome to expect. Anyone arguing otherwise is a fool. Sorry.

And this rule seems to often apply to young black urban males.

The rule applies to anyone who has or gives the appearance of reaching for a weapon when being told not to by officers.

But young blacks are especially popular. They just seem to have a greater death wish than others.

Why not go out and test your theory? Go cause some sort of major disturbance where the cops are called. Then when they come, pace around with your hands in your pocket, brandish a weapon of some sort and yell at them to shoot you. I am sure since you are white they will not shoot. They will be cool with your threats.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

This is really unfortunate. I think the cops acted within reason but what's with the 2 shots fired after he goes down? The threat has been eliminated. Also, is it SOP to handcuff someone you just shot? Shouldn't the main concern be getting medical attention?

Totally fair questions but I think standard procedure is that, if you're going to use deadly force, use it until you know 100% that the guy is not a danger

He wasn't a danger to them, Randal. They are supposed to be trained to deal with situations like this. When they show up, he wasn't an immediate threat to anyone other than them. (The police could SEE bystanders milling about not feeling threatened). And they are paid to deal with a little bit of threat.

He WAS a danger to them. They are trained to deal with situations like this and I think they probably followed that training here. Bystanders weren't threatened because he wasn't coming at bystanders with a knife yelling "shoot me!" They are paid to deal with the threat and they did.

It's really sad that an obviously severly mentally ill man was shot and killed, but I don't think our hindsight now changes the fact that this went down in a couple seconds and a clearly deranged man with a knife, who the police had been called to deal with because he was scaring people, came at the police, refused to heed their commands to stop and drop his weapon, yelled at them to shoot him, and began quickly moving towards them.

If the cops hadn't shot when they did, what happens a half second later when the guy gets to one of the cops with a knife? Probably a cop gets badly injured and the guy is dead anyway.

I have no problem with them shooting him. I think they were acting in their own defense and it was warranted here. But after you and your partner hit the guy multiple times, and he hits the ground, it seems wrong to continue shooting him and then roll his lifeless body over and handcuff him.

I don't disagree with you but I'm guessing it was probably just adrenaline. I don't know what types of weapons they were shooting, but doubtful that they emptied the magazines on the guy.

 

[Clifford]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If they are scared ####less and act as any of us amateurs would, then they should not be in law enforcement and trusted with a gun.

If the standard was "not frightened when personally threatened with violent death" you'd have like 1000 people to staff your entire national police fire and military, and they'd all be sociopaths

Fair enough - though I'd posit that we are wasting billions on training if this is acceptable protocol. Let's get rid of 80% of police training if the answer is to mow down mentally ill folks when they are off their meds.

 

[butcher boy]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

 

[matttyl]

If they are scared ####less and act as any of us amateurs would, then they should not be in law enforcement and trusted with a gun.

If the standard was "not frightened when personally threatened with violent death" you'd have like 1000 people to staff your entire national police fire and military, and they'd all be sociopaths

Fair enough - though I'd posit that we are wasting billions on training if this is acceptable protocol. Let's get rid of 80% of police training if the answer is to mow down mentally ill folks when they are off their meds.

Yup, lets make our police even less well equipped to protect the public.

 

[Henry Ford]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

My understanding is that he was there.

 

[jon_mx]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

My understanding is that he was there.

Yes, but he seemed like he was oblivious to what was going on until after the fact.

 

[butcher boy]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

My understanding is that he was there.

Still don't buy it. When he first sees the cops pull up, he obviously sees them and backs up before advancing on them when they get out of the car. He's then looking directly at them aiming a gun at him for about 5 seconds. At that point, it doesn't matter if you can hear them or not. It's clear they want you on the ground. I can buy the mentally ill argument, but not this one.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

 

[butcher boy]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Because its not like in the movies where the good guys have pinpoint precision in their accuracy. Going for the legs on an advancing target like that is a low percentage shot. Also consider that this all took place in a matter of seconds.

 

[RUSF18]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

My understanding is that he was there.

Still don't buy it. When he first sees the cops pull up, he obviously sees them and backs up before advancing on them when they get out of the car. He's then looking directly at them aiming a gun at him for about 5 seconds. At that point, it doesn't matter if you can hear them or not. It's clear they want you on the ground. I can buy the mentally ill argument, but not this one.

You're talking about a different case. The story quoted above isn't the same video posted at the top of the thread. Taylor in the quote/Powell in the subject.

edit: At least, I think you are.

 

[butcher boy]

Cops seem to be under the impression that:

Any American citizen is immediately compelled to do anything they say whether that applies to a law on the books or not

Not doing exactly what they say when they say it is actually a crime that people can be arrested for. If someone shows the slightest problem with being arrested they then tack on "resisting arrest" to whatever the first crime they think the person committed.

If a person does not immediately follow orders and resists being arrested for such, use of force is justified.

If the officer feels frightened or threatened for any reason, use of deadly force is justified.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor. “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Saying its ok for them to do this only reinforces their notion of immunity from the law. Lately it seems like "he looked threatening" is license for cops to kill people. Not cooperating immediately with what they say is license to kill people. This #### is totally out of control and something needs to be done to restore law and order.

How the hell would his brother even know this?

My understanding is that he was there.

Still don't buy it. When he first sees the cops pull up, he obviously sees them and backs up before advancing on them when they get out of the car. He's then looking directly at them aiming a gun at him for about 5 seconds. At that point, it doesn't matter if you can hear them or not. It's clear they want you on the ground. I can buy the mentally ill argument, but not this one.

You're talking about a different case. The story quoted above isn't the same video posted at the top of the thread. Taylor in the quote/Powell in the subject.

Oh ok. Oops.

 

[El Floppo]

I would agree that a tazer is more logical, but it was a man with a weapon, and I do think shooting is justified...but I don't understand why you've got to unload a clip into the guy. I feel like in a situation with a knife, the first shot should be to the leg or to wound. Just turning the guy into a sieve seems like overkill.

Is there some police code that basically states that when you make the decision to shoot, you should shoot to kill?

Pretty much this. Using a firearm is using deadly force. You only use deadly force when necessary to counter potentially deadly force. In that situation there's no reason to "go for the leg," which is non-sense to anyone who has ever trained with a firearm. This isn't the movies, you don't aim to "clip" someone and try not to shoot them too much. If you've made the decision that using a firearm is necessary, you aim center mass.

Thanks. Makes sense, but I wasn't sure if this was the case in all situations. I get if someone has a gun, but I just wondered if there was a different take when someone has a knife and you would have time for multiple shots. It just seemed like one shot to the leg (or even ONE shot anywhere) might drop the guy and reduce the threat without killing him...but I get why the training is that way.

Agree. I have no issue with what they did in this case and only brought up "taking him out at the knees" as an option. It makes sense that if you decide to pull the trigger, you are doing it to kill. Training them another way might lead to more problems.

I'm sure it's already been answered, but...

I served civil jury duty here in NYC on a fatal cop-shooting of a bankrobber and his hostage. They brought in the guy who literally wrote the book on police-hostage negotiations as a defense witness... what he, and other experts said was this: these are police officers, not snipers. The training required to have these guys shoot at somebody's knees is far beyond what is expected for a beat-cop. I'm not a gun guy, and I always wondered the same thing; these guys are trained to shoot at maximum mass- ie: torso.

 

[[icon]]

I served civil jury duty here in NYC on a fatal cop-shooting of a bankrobber and his hostage. They brought in the guy who literally wrote the book on police-hostage negotiations as a defense witness... what he, and other experts said was this: these are police officers, not snipers. The training required to have these guys shoot at somebody's knees is far beyond what is expected for a beat-cop. I'm not a gun guy, and I always wondered the same thing; these guys are trained to shoot at maximum mass- ie: torso.

Exactly.

Pistols have very short barrels and are simply VERY difficult to shoot accurately at any distance, even under ideal circumstances.

At 5 meters, being off by a lousy 3 DEGREES will have your miss your intended target by around a foot. Think about that for a second.

Even in perfectly calm range scenarios, I'd wager most officers would not be able to deliver accurately head-shots at 10 meters with more than 5-6x out of 10 shots... if that. Now add in adrenaline, tons of peripheral noise/distraction... a moving target, etc. There's a reason people frequently get in gunfights at surprisingly close ranges without anyone getting seriously wounded... and a reason officers are trained to shoot for center mass.

The problem is, every armchair **** Tracy in here has watched too many movies.

 

[NCCommish]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

He wasn't shot for stealing two sodas. He was shot for approaching cops with a weapon in a threatening manner.

They always are.

Remind me how long you were a cop.

And getting mugged leaving your checkers tournament doesn't count.

My father in law was a cop for 24 years. Never seemed to have to kill anyone. But then that was when cops were cops not paramilitary wannabe's who think deadly force is the go to.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

We need more original ideas like this one.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

 

[Henry Ford]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

Hypnosis.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

Hypnosis.

Play them some country music? In all seriousness there has got to be a better way. Shooting a person with a knife seems silly when given the opportunity to use another method.

 

[Henry Ford]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

Hypnosis.

Play them some country music? In all seriousness there has got to be a better way. Shooting a person with a knife seems silly when given the opportunity to use another method.

I think pepper spray may have been a good idea.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I bet if they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

 

[Henry Ford]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I bet if they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

And the bullet will disintegrate once it reaches 1000 feet.

 

[Fennis]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I bet if they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

And the bullet will disintegrate once it reaches 1000 feet.

ice bullets

 

[Limp Ditka]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I bet if they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

Pretty sure cops aren't in the business of firing off warning shots.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not just shoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I bet if they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

Pretty sure cops aren't in the business of firing off warning shots.

Nope but these ones were in the business of killing a kid that was approaching them. I've watch the video a bunch of times and have figured out if they didn't shoot the kid would have reached them in 2 minutes at his current pace towards them.

 

[msommer]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not justshoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I betif they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

Pretty sure cops aren't in the business of firing off warning shots.

Nope but these ones were in the business of killing a kid that was approaching them. I've watch the video a bunch of times and have figured out if they didn't shoot the kid would have reached them in 2 minutes at his current pace towards them.

What if he was a 'change of pace' b(l)ack?

(Ok, that probably sounded funnier in my head)

 

[[icon]]

Nope but these ones were in the business of killing a kid that was approaching them. I've watch the video a bunch of times and have figured out if they didn't shoot the kid would have reached them in 2 minutes at his current pace towards them.

OH COME ON

 

[Limp Ditka]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not justshoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I betif they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

Pretty sure cops aren't in the business of firing off warning shots.

Nope but these ones were in the business of killing a kid that was approaching them. I've watch the video a bunch of times and have figured out if they didn't shoot the kid would have reached them in 2 minutes at his current pace towards them.

Me thinks you need to turn the super slow mo off.

 

[[icon]]

Fair enough - though I'd posit that we are wasting billions on training if this is acceptable protocol. Let's get rid of 80% of police training if the answer is to mow down mentally ill folks when they are off their meds.

Is there any actually evidence of this guy having a history of mental illness or is this pure conjecture at this point?

 

[Henry Ford]

Fair enough - though I'd posit that we are wasting billions on training if this is acceptable protocol. Let's get rid of 80% of police training if the answer is to mow down mentally ill folks when they are off their meds.

Is there any actually evidence of this guy having a history of mental illness or is this pure conjecture at this point?

Thus far only his neighbors describing him as mentally ill, as far as I know.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

So his actions in that video aren't enough to suggest he has some mental problems?

The video first shows him pacing back and forth over the two soda he set on the sidewalk like a guard dog. Then when the police arrive he walks towards them saying shooting "Just shoot me."

Seems stable to me.

 

[jamny]

So his actions in that video aren't enough to suggest he has some mental problems?

The video first shows him pacing back and forth over the two soda he set on the sidewalk like a guard dog. Then when the police arrive he walks towards them saying shooting "Just shoot me."

Seems stable to me.

Might have been on drugs.

 

[gianmarco]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet, but I think I just heard on our local news here that the officers involved in this shooting have been placed on UNpaid leave.

 

[Fennis]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet, but I think I just heard on our local news here that the officers involved in this shooting have been placed on UNpaid leave.

I suspect the local news made a mistake.

 

[parrot]

Seems to me that the cops were a little quick

with the trigger but I guess my bigger problem with the police action is why couldn't they take him out at the knee instead of handing him a death blow?

Even better, why not justshoot the knife out of his hand and than spin his revolver around really cool-like before putting it back into the holster.

The tiny pocket knife the kid held at his side? Fine, for some reason these cops couldn't aim lower. I betif they just fired a shot up in the air the kid hits the ground and the situation is handled.

Pretty sure cops aren't in the business of firing off warning shots.

Nope but these ones were in the business of killing a kid that was approaching them. I've watch the video a bunch of times and have figured out if they didn't shoot the kid would have reached them in 2 minutes at his current pace towards them.

Why do you keep calling him a "kid"? He was 25 years old.

 

[lod01]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

Foam that turns into Styrofoam seconds after shooting onto loser. Of course there is always the problem that he may suffocate but I can live with that. - Demolition Man.

 

[parrot]

Gotta be a better way to subdue someone? Giant net? Sandbags? Non Lethal projectiles? I dunno, just gotta be a better way.

Hypnosis.

Play them some country music? In all seriousness there has got to be a better way. Shooting a person with a knife seems silly when given the opportunity to use another method.

I didn't see where the cops were given much of an opportunity. I guess they could have asked him politely to stop moving towards them while they went ahead and switched their service weapons out for some non-lethal alternative, but he didn't seem to be in a real compliant mood.

 

[humpback]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

He wasn't shot for stealing two sodas. He was shot for approaching cops with a weapon in a threatening manner.

They always are.

Remind me how long you were a cop.

And getting mugged leaving your checkers tournament doesn't count.

My father in law was a cop for 24 years. Never seemed to have to kill anyone. But then that was when cops were cops not paramilitary wannabe's who think deadly force is the go to.

So he was like most cops who don't kill anyone.

 

[Sheriff66]

Cops are out of damn control these days, getting gestapo-like, they need to all wear cameras that they cannot turn off for any reason

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

L.A. PD oopsies

now THAT is an impossible situation for the police.

 

[Sinn Fein]

L.A. PD oopsies

now THAT is an impossible situation for the police.

they shot both people - wouldn't you at least assume one was a victim before you lit him up?

This just goes back to that shoot first mentality, that we need to work around somehow.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I'm not sure why the cops wouldn't use their tasers. Can somone explain?

Wasn't like a standoff. This escalated immediately. He was screaming shoot me and was coming at the cops. Got within 5 feet.The "overhand grip" did not happen but I don't know what you would expect the cops to do in this instance.

I couldn't tell if he was holding a knife.

Subdue him without using deadly force.

Their was an incident I think in California recently. Maybe New Mexico. Schizo guy was standing 25 feet from the cops holding a knife. Spouting off incoherent ramblings. He was surrounded by cops. Was a standoff. They shot him dead when he didn't cooperate. It was the video where they were handcuffing him as he bleed out. They could have subdued him without deadly force.

This was nothing like that incident. This popped off right away.

This one??? shot 40 times while holding a knife

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So his actions in that video aren't enough to suggest he has some mental problems?

The video first shows him pacing back and forth over the two soda he set on the sidewalk like a guard dog. Then when the police arrive he walks towards them saying shooting "Just shoot me."

Seems stable to me.

He wanted the cops to kill him and they did

 

[FBALLGUY]

This outcome could've been avoided...if the ####### acted like a civilized human being and not a threatening psycho. You go looking for trouble, you usually find it. That neighborhood just got safer if you ask me.

 

[Sinn Fein]

This is a link to a long-read 74+ page report from NYPD - 2012 Annual Firearm Discharge report. I can't cut and paste, but it highlights the laws permitting deadly force, and the restrictions put on officers before using deadly force - mostly common sense type rules.

It also has a detailed procedures for how any officer-realted shooting will be investigated from the initial report through the internal affairs investigation.

Interestingly, adversarial conflict discharges are down little bit from 2002 to 2012.