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Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (2 Viewers)

tommyboy said:
casino scene actually introduces a new character and an idea, which is integral to the overarching battle of light and dark.   The weapons sales to both bad and good guys.   there is no "team" just two sides to the same coin.  Count me in on this concept.  
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Really?  We have one side who builds planet killers and shows no empathy as they wipe out millions of people just because they can?  They built the death stars themselves.  This is Nazi Germany in steroids and Disney is trying to push some bleeding heart message about there is really no evil except capitalism.  Could be the most out of place political message in cinema history.  

 
tommyboy said:
So after some thought. The story arc seems to be that Rey and kylo are in love. Kylo sees that she will join him eventually, but she sees that he will turn to the good. They are both right, but her vision is more powerful as she could see everything in their connection but he can't.

This is why Yoda says we must not lose Rey.

The other unresolved story is where did Rey come from. She is not a nothing, there's more there.
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Insein said:
I agree. Her parents don't have to be from the lore but they didn't just abandon her on Jakku. Kylo feels like he is either lying to her about being no one to manipulate her or he doesnt really know himself but still needs to manipulate her. However he underestimates her ability to sway him. Probably his first female interaction his age in his life. He has no idea how to handle it. Same goes for Rey. 

Their love story is a million times more believable than Anakin and Padme and actually is one of the few things I can have hope for being interesting in 9.
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One possibility is that they are using the same trick as when telling the Luke/Kylo temple story.

Every time we were told that story we got the literal truth, with a little less omitted.

Kylos story could be correct in that Reys parents appear (to his vision) to be no one he has ever heard of - that they are indeed buried in a pauper's grave on Jakku, but that there is much more to the story than that, which we will get revealed in the next installment.

The cave/mirror scene could be similar - who is responsible for Rey being the person that she is? Well, with no parents around, she is. This doesn't explain her innate afinity for and control over the force - so her parents/genetics may matter after all.

I forget if there was a prophecy that foretold Luke (IIRC I think there was) - but prophecies are sometimes wrong (and clearly the jedi religion failed its mission, why would it not be able to fail in the interpretation of a vision?)

 
tommyboy said:
First time Thurs night, alone. Second time with 11 yr old son Friday matinee. Third time with 13 and 15 yr old daughters Saturday matinee. Today with 8 yr old daughter and the son went again. I've eaten more popcorn in the last 4 days than I have in the last 6 months. 
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I'll never understand. 

 
jon_mx said:
Really?  We have one side who builds planet killers and shows no empathy as they wipe out millions of people just because they can?  They built the death stars themselves.  This is Nazi Germany in steroids and Disney is trying to push some bleeding heart message about there is really no evil except capitalism.  Could be the most out of place political message in cinema history.  
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They probably should have included a scene where someone at the casino was negotiating to buy up most of the world’s media for $52.4 space billion. 

 
Before seeing it I was thinking I'd take my son to see it a second time during the Christmas break but after seeing it I'm good. 

 
Even if you have beef with Rey's parents being "nobodies" it's not like there's a CHANCE that Kylo was lying.*

* The idea that the piece of the map to find Luke was on the same planet as Rey always seemed to be too much of a coincidence to me.......but I'm fine with her parents being white trash. 

 
After more reflection, these last two movies (VII & VIII) have a very bland story. There is no mysticism or adventure feel to them. Dare I say that George Lucas wrote “better” stories around his characters. Even the prequels have a sense of myth, a deeper meaning. Dare I say it but these last two episodes feel like they were written and directed by Michael Bay. These are not the Star Wars I was looking for. 

 
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Dedfin said:
It's easy to imagine the bombs may have an internal switch that engages a magnetic propulsion system accelerating the bombs as they leave the spacecraft, then disengaging them when the field would slow them down relative to the target.  So the bombs aren't necessarily falling, but given an initial velocity leaving the spacecraft.  Additional guidance modules could easily be incorporated to the bomb based on other aspects of the target.  I could be wrong, since I didn't see the blueprints on the rebel bombers or how their bombs work.  I don't see why we need to get this granular though, is everyone OK with lightsabers?  Hyperspace?  Can we just accept that this galaxy has possession of technology that we find to be fantastical.  We should, it's a fantasy movie. (don't mean to get preachy to you in particular bigbottom)

It's a long time ago in a galaxy far away.  It's not a documentary.
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Yeah yeah we know we know.

Movie was still weak even suspending all disbelief (like I do with every Star Wars film) in comparison with at minimum The Force Awakens and Rogue One.

We are just having some fun tounge and cheek talk here.

I went ahead an watched TFA last night. Wow so much better and a lot more fun. That movie captured the old Star Wars magic really well. Rogue One tonight for even more old school magic. 

Watching TFA again reinforces my thoughts of TLJ. A big meh overall it is.

 
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Mario Kart said:
After more reflection, these last two movies (VII & VIII) have a very bland story. There is no mysticism or adventure feel to them. Dare I say that George Lucas wrote “better” stories around his characters. Even the prequels have a sense of myth, a deeper meaning. Dare I say it but these last two episodes feel like they were written and directed by Michael Bay. These are the Star Wars I was looking for. 
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That's fair. For his many, many shortcomings as a director and writer, there definitely was a "feel" to the Lucas movies that the new ones don't have. Still, I think the problems I had with the prequels were so large as to overcome that. The Abrams era may not have the "aw shucks" factor but I think they are objectively better movies.

 
I wonder how long time fans would feel about the new films if Abrams had made the decision to not include any of the OT cast at all.

 
I've been hearing from numerous people who saw the movie a second time and felt much better about it afterwards.  All the questions they had from the first viewing seemed to have been answered or just made more sense the second time viewing it.  It also sounds like kids are really enjoying it which is great for the future of the franchise.

 
Autumn Wind said:
I wonder how long time fans would feel about the new films if Abrams had made the decision to not include any of the OT cast at all.
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I guess it just depends. Is the story interesting? Are we still talking about TFA being a soft reboot? I don't really feel like any of the new characters are compelling so it probably wouldn't matter either way. 

 
I think my main dislike with 7 and 8 is the music. It just doesn't sound like Star Wars. I know that they don't want to rehash the tried and true, iconic Williams music but I just don't get the same connection as I did with the original score. Maybe it's because of the movies that are tied to it but I could be reduced to a blubbering mess with a few well placed chords of the old tunes. This new stuff is just background noise. No feeling.

 
culdeus said:
So how do they stop a Jedi from cleaning them out on craps?
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The Jedi eschew material possession, so it's a non-issue.  I'd be more concerned with a Wookie rolling snake eyes on the come out roll and just growling/menacing the croupier until they pay his weighty pass line bet anyway.

 
Todem said:
Yeah yeah we know we know.

Movie was still weak even suspending all disbelief (like I do with every Star Wars film) in comparison with at minimum The Force Awakens and Rogue One.

We are just having some fun tounge and cheek talk here.

I went ahead an watched TFA last night. Wow so much better and a lot more fun. That movie captured the old Star Wars magic really well. Rogue One tonight for even more old school magic. 

Watching TFA again reinforces my thoughts of TLJ. A big meh overall it is.
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I have been thinking about this more, and the too much Finn aside, I think a sticking point for me was that it felt like the people telling these stories weren't quite on the same page with the overall story as was apparent in the originals.  I know people are on board with some of the twists and turns but they didn't click with me.  Combining that with what felt like a lack of consistency of what the characters are or what can be done in these worlds.  I mean some of us nerds were #####ing that all of a sudden in Ep 1, Jedis can sprint at light speed.

Examples:

  • building up Snoke, but nope - we didn't need to bother much with him.  Phasma was another one that seemed to be all over all the ads but was a 2 second character.
  • so many new things like Rey and Kylo linked like Voldemort and Harry, Luke's image being able to full on battle with Kylo, Leia using the force to save herself in space etc..  
  • buildup and let down of other things like evidently the island holds a force that is really dark that has the power to draw Jedi's in, but it's just a mirror that doesn't tell you who your parents are?  Luke's dead, nope he's not, Oh I guess he really is.  


I know we are being a bit tongue in cheek and going all GoT thread in here a bit, but I guess for me overall the humor felt out of place, I felt like it was more inconsistent in how it fit into the the world, and it was about 40 mins too long as we watched Finn and Rose bumble around.  Also felt more Lucas-y than the last two with needing to have cutesy animals at every location. Felt like the studio told Johnson that he could do whatever as long as there are X number of cute new characters to sell merch to the kids with.  

There are great moments for sure - ie taking out a ship by flying through it at light speed, and I think that 's what kept it from dipping into the Episodes 1-2 level for me, but I am not sure how many time I will want to rewatch this one.   I do like that they gave Johnson the keys to the next set of 3 movies, so maybe that will have more of a consistent feel through the three moives.  

 
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It really seems like the original trilogy is completely blocking the ability for anyone to truly enjoy another Star Wars movie.  Let go of the past and you may start enjoying things more.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
It really seems like the original trilogy is completely blocking the ability for anyone to truly enjoy another Star Wars movie.  Let go of the past and you may start enjoying things more.
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The ironic thing about this is that the originally trilogy was plenty flawed.   If people would see Return of the Jedi today for the first time for example, I think they would be shocked at how silly and kiddish it was.

 
JJ should have done them all.  Just so there was a path and consistency  

I am curious about what outline Lucas had that was trashed though as well. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
The ironic thing about this is that the originally trilogy was plenty flawed.   If people would see Return of the Jedi today for the first time for example, I think they would be shocked at how silly and kiddish it was.
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Yep.  That's the problem when you have movies like Star Wars, people will always compare it to the original.  It's hard to compare things that are so apart in time.  Seeing a movie like Star Wars for the first time when you're a kid in the 80's has to be completely different to watching the new movies as an adult now.  It's not going to be the same so it's just best to not compare them.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Yep.  That's the problem when you have movies like Star Wars, people will always compare it to the original.  It's hard to compare things that are so apart in time.  Seeing a movie like Star Wars for the first time when you're a kid in the 80's has to be completely different to watching the new movies as an adult now.  It's not going to be the same so it's just best to not compare them.
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Indeed. I still love ROTJ just because of my sentimental attachment, but watching it now it's clear that the franchise had already run out of gas. Most of the cast (particularly Harrison Ford) looks totally bored, and a lot of the story just rehashes beats from the first movie. But most egregiously, we can clearly see the seeds of bad humor and sterilization that infected the prequels.

 
I can see it that Rey's parents are nobodies.

Taking that last scene into account, with the stable boy using the force to grab the broom. I have a feeling they are setting us up for an X-men type story when the rebels are reconstructed b/c they call all of these people from around the galaxy who have these 'unique gifts' but are untapped b/c the Jedi training programs died, and recreate the jedi order. 

If thats the case, Rey having no true family lineage fits

 
glvsav37 said:
I can see it that Rey's parents are nobodies.

Taking that last scene into account, with the stable boy using the force to grab the broom. I have a feeling they are setting us up for an X-men type story when the rebels are reconstructed b/c they call all of these people from around the galaxy who have these 'unique gifts' but are untapped b/c the Jedi training programs died, and recreate the jedi order. 

If thats the case, Rey having no true family lineage fits
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My takeaway from that last bit with the kid wasn't that it was a setup for the next generation of Jedi being shown on film, but merely to show that their legacy will live on and serve as an inspiration throughout the galaxy. Much in the same way that Luke himself was inspired by stories of the Rebellion.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Yep.  That's the problem when you have movies like Star Wars, people will always compare it to the original.  It's hard to compare things that are so apart in time.  Seeing a movie like Star Wars for the first time when you're a kid in the 80's has to be completely different to watching the new movies as an adult now.  It's not going to be the same so it's just best to not compare them.
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It's too easy to dismiss people's unlove for this movie as that, so we probably shouldn't do that.  I grew up with this stuff and adore the first movies.  That said, I think TFA and R0 are the 3rd and 4th best movies and can fully admit to the flaws in original trilogy (like how we bag on how annoying Jar Jar is, but go back and watch the originals and see that C3PO is damn near as annoying and we already saw Lucas' "humor" on full display).  

I am not too old to feel like a kid at the movies sometimes, so IMO all these movies have to do is capture a little bit of that magic for me again.  TFA did that for me, and it wasn't just the old stuff like seeing the Falcon or X-Wings again.  I thought that opening scene was badass with the Kylo stopping the blast, I liked seeing the lightsaber fly across the screen and end up with Rey, stuff like that.  Rogue One had those moments for me as well, and I don't remember being bored for a bit during those two.  I didn't have that feeling much during this movie and was fighting the urge to check my phone to see how much time was left a couple spots during the movie.  My son said he didn't like it as much either which surprised me.  I'm glad it lit that spark for people in here and their kids, I am just saying it didn't for me this time around.  

 
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bagger said:
Because general hux specifically did not want them isolated without support from the Capital ships. How else can I help you?
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The same General Hux that fell for a crank call as an excuse to not destroy the resistance to start the movie? Yea I'm not buying his decisions.

 
I made the mistake of wearing my Darth Vader GALAXY'S GREATEST DAD t-shirt to the grocery store on Sunday and some random nerd (looked to be mid 40's) starting talking to me about Star Wars and decided to recite an entire Robot Chicken Star Wars soliloquy to me

Sadly not the weirdest encounter I've ever had in that store (one time some guy asked me how much the crab cakes I just grabbed cost and then pulled out a bible and started furiously thumbing through it and whispering scripture to himself)

 
KarmaPolice said:
It's too easy to dismiss people's unlove for this movie as that, so we probably shouldn't do that.  I grew up with this stuff and adore the first movies.  That said, I think TFA and R0 are the 3rd and 4th best movies and can fully admit to the flaws in original trilogy (like how we bag on how annoying Jar Jar is, but go back and watch the originals and see that C3PO is damn near as annoying and we already saw Lucas' "humor" on full display).  

I am not too old to feel like a kid at the movies sometimes, so IMO all these movies have to do is capture a little bit of that magic for me again.  TFA did that for me, and it wasn't just the old stuff like seeing the Falcon or X-Wings again.  I thought that opening scene was badass with the Kylo stopping the blast, I liked seeing the lightsaber fly across the screen and end up with Rey, stuff like that.  Rogue One had those moments for me as well, and I don't remember being bored for a bit during those two.  I didn't have that feeling much during this movie and was fighting the urge to check my phone to see how much time was left a couple spots during the movie.  My son said he didn't like it as much either which surprised me.  I'm glad it lit that spark for people in here and their kids, I am just saying it didn't for me this time around.  
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This movie had more flaws than the last two but it still had plenty of "WOW" moments for me.  It seemed like maybe they were too spread out though.  I agree with everyone that says there were parts that could've been cut out completely.  I look forward to seeing it again with some friends so we can critique it together.

 
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