Starting QB in Chicago (1 Viewer)

[PatsWillWin]

How strong is Grossman's hold on the starting gig in Chicago? I didn't see the game, but the numbers tell an interesting tail with Grossman going 3-11 and two fumbles and Griese going 6/7 134, 1 TD.

It's sorta "overreacting" I guess, but Grossman's the QB by HC decree only, and hasn't done much in the NFL to justify a definate hold on the job, no matter how much better than he Griese plays. The Bears, after all, should have a walk in the NFC North, and are contenders.

 

[kevthegrad]

How strong is Grossman's hold on the starting gig in Chicago? I didn't see the game, but the numbers tell an interesting tail with Grossman going 3-11 and two fumbles and Griese going 6/7 134, 1 TD.It's sorta "overreacting" I guess, but Grossman's the QB by HC decree only, and hasn't done much in the NFL to justify a definate hold on the job, no matter how much better than he Griese plays. The Bears, after all, should have a walk in the NFC North, and are contenders.

I don't think you're over reacting. The first week Griese was signed there were a lot of reports that he'd be the starter. He looked great last year in Tampa before going down to injury, and I just think this team needs more poise and leadership than Grossman has been able to develop riding the pine the last 2 seasons...or is it 3? Poor brittle guy.

 

[jbird5150]

Regardless of his spotty performances and oft-injured history, the Bears absolutely LOOOOOVE Rex. For some unknown reason, they are 100% convinced he's going to lead them to the promised land.

So knocking him off his perch will be a tough job. But if Grossman does like he did last night in the next 2 pre-season games, I don't think they have any choice but to hand the ball to Griese.

Personally, I thought they'd probably release Rex after his injury last year. I mean, how many times does a guy have to go on IR to convince you that he's always going to be hurting somewhere?

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I don't think this is an overrreaction at all either. The Bears were a playoff team last year and have a very good shot at going deep in the playoffs this season. However, they won't get that far without improved play at the QB spot, as I think the Bears defense won't be as great scoring off of turnovers as they were last season. The Bears didn't really blow teams away last season, and their margin for error is pretty slim. Rex needs to step up and show he is worth that #1 pick spent last year. I wasn't too thrilled to read today that he had trouble calming down, but I'll be ready to dismiss that if he is able to in the next preseason game.

I have no problem with Lovie squashing any QB controversy as no team needs that distraction, but I will have a problem if Rex keeps performing as he did and still maintains the starting spot. I think Griese will end up being the starting QB, but if not, hopefully it is due to Grossman's play and not some need to justify the pick spent on Rex (and I don't think Lovie would do that anyway). Grossman has to feel the pressure as Griese isn't some scrub who has never produced in the NFL, and I think that pressure will really tell Bears fans whether or not Rex is really the answer at QB, as I think this is the first time that Grossman has really had a true challenger.

 

[MLBrandow]

How strong is Grossman's hold on the starting gig in Chicago? I didn't see the game, but the numbers tell an interesting tail with Grossman going 3-11 and two fumbles and Griese going 6/7 134, 1 TD.

It's sorta "overreacting" I guess, but Grossman's the QB by HC decree only, and hasn't done much in the NFL to justify a definate hold on the job, no matter how much better than he Griese plays. The Bears, after all, should have a walk in the NFC North, and are contenders.

I don't think you're over reacting. The first week Griese was signed there were a lot of reports that he'd be the starter. He looked great last year in Tampa before going down to injury, and I just think this team needs more poise and leadership than Grossman has been able to develop riding the pine the last 2 seasons...or is it 3? Poor brittle guy.

No, he looked horrendous. Guys like me were calling for him to be injured or benched for Simms last season because he single-handedly almost lost the four of their first five games last season. The Bucs were winning in spite of him, not because of him.

Grossman is a winner, and although he is more of the McNair/Dilfer breed than the Palmer/Manning breed, he is the much better QB option IMO.

Realize that Grossman was playing without both of his running backs (maybe more? Didn't watch the game). While Griese also was, do realize he was playing against backups and he's a starting-caliber QB. He should be expected to shred defenders on the bubble.

 

[Chaos]

How strong is Grossman's hold on the starting gig in Chicago? I didn't see the game, but the numbers tell an interesting tail with Grossman going 3-11 and two fumbles and Griese going 6/7 134, 1 TD.It's sorta "overreacting" I guess, but Grossman's the QB by HC decree only, and hasn't done much in the NFL to justify a definate hold on the job, no matter how much better than he Griese plays. The Bears, after all, should have a walk in the NFC North, and are contenders.

Didn't Griese have 2 TDs?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Griese has long been one of the underrated QBs in the NFL. His career #'s (63%, 7.1 ypa, 108 TDs to 78 INts) slot between guys like marc Bulger and Elvis Grbac.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Griese has long been one of the underrated QBs in the NFL. His career #'s (63%, 7.1 ypa, 108 TDs to 78 INts) slot between guys like marc Bulger and Elvis Grbac.

 

[CalBear]

I think it's a fair bet that someone who has not managed to play more than 3 games in a season, and also has just 4 TDs in 195 attempts (with 6 INTs) and completes less than 54% of his passes, will not be the long-term starter anywhere.

 

[BassNBrew]

Grossman is a winner,

 

[Tau837]

Grossman is a winner

Based on what? He has played in 9 NFL games, and the Bears' record in those games is 5-4, including 0-1 in postseason.He was 24-9 as a starter at Florida, not bad but not great either, when you consider that Florida can be a national title contender every year with their talent. And he was 1-2 in bowl games as a college starter.Griese's teams are 39-33 in games in which he played... pfr.com doesn't list starts, so I'm not sure if he started all of those. (I'm ignoring two games with 3 attempts or less.) That is a fairly similar winning percentage.I'm not arguing for Griese, just not sure I would say Grossman should be the starter over Grossman because Grossman is a better winner.

 

[SSOG]

Griese has long been one of the underrated QBs in the NFL. His career #'s (63%, 7.1 ypa, 108 TDs to 78 INts) slot between guys like marc Bulger and Elvis Grbac.

You know me Colin, and you know I'm generally a very big stats guy, but in Griese's case, the stats lie. He's been run off of three different teams in the past 4 years now. He's been let go in favor of Jake Plummer (who I happen to think is a top-10 QB, but at the time was a very unknown quantity), Gus Frerotte/AJ Feeley, and now Chris Simms. These coaches are very smart guys, so I think it's safe to say they're on to something.Griese has no leadership skills. He performs small in big moments. He has a gift for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. He has little pocket presence, and takes a lot of sacks. Sometimes he hears footsteps when there are none there and throws picks when he has plenty of time.Mike Shanahan always said that he loved Griese's 60% completion percentage... it was just his 50% winning percentage that he had a problem with- and he had a point. Look at the QBs before and after Griese- for the most part, they haven't put up such lofty passing numbers, but John Elway was the winningest QB of all time, and Jake Plummer has more wins since he came to Denver than anyone but Brady or Peyton Manning.To go off of DVOA, in the last 5 years Griese has finished 30th, 11th, 42nd, 15th, and 25th- establishing him as a guy who'll get you some decent seasons, but who is firmly entrenched in the "mediocre at best" category. I view him, at this point, sort of like a Kurt Warner- a guy who'll get you some solid seasons while you're grooming a better option, but not the kind of guy who's going to carry you to the promised land. He's a bottom 50% starter, but probably the best backup in the NFL this year.

 

[Colin Dowling]

At present, I will not disagree that he a "bottom 50% starter and probably the best backup in the league." My assertion for 2006 is he's better than the guy ahead of him.

 

[SSOG]

At present, I will not disagree that he a "bottom 50% starter and probably the best backup in the league." My assertion for 2006 is he's better than the guy ahead of him.

Dunno about that. Remember, Grossman's only played in... what, nine games? He was a first round draft pick and Chicago's "quarterback of the future". I think it's fully understandable for them to start him over Griese- just like when Cincinatti started Palmer over Kitna, even though they were trying to compete for a playoff spot.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I look at it this way...

Rex is Angelo's 'Golden Child'

He says ALL the right stuff to the media - and they love him

He is very friendly with the fans - and they love him

Personally, I feel the Bears defense (when unlike last night - they try) our a championship caliber defense. I also feel the Bears O-Line is a Top 10 Oline. and I feel when Cedric Benson and Thomas Jones are back, along with Adrian Peterson, are probably a Top 10 RB trio in the NFL. Rex Grossman is not the answer. It will take him time to develop. He's nothing more than a glorified rookie, with 4 TDs in three seasons. Griese is experienced, and won 5 of 6 games last year as a starter with the Bucs.

With that said... unless Grossman gets hurt, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that Griese will start.

 

[nflguru]

Being a chi town homer, I see grossman year over year and to be honest I would bet dollars that griese becomes the starter within the first 5 weeks.

Griese has the experience and talent to out play grossman and IMO its just a matter of time before he gets the starting nod.

 

[Jason Wood]

Anyone that thinks Brian Griese can't win this job outright doesn't understand that Lovie Smith, not Jerry Angelo, makes that call.

 

[Local303]

Griese's post-game interview doesn't sound like he thinks he's the starter.

Griese seemed less interested in his eye-popping numbers—6-for-7 for 134 yards, two touchdowns and a perfect passer rating of 158.3—and more pleased with just competing again.

"When something you've done your entire life that you love and you're passionate about is taken away from you, it's difficult," Griese said. "So it felt very good to be back."

I would understand this guy being gun shy about "assuming control", I live in Denver they freaking hated this guy by the time he left. Then coming off an injury.But, I do kind of wonder if he hasn't matured, after all this, for the better.

The link to the whole quote

 

[wannabee]

Published Sun Aug 13 12:38:00 a.m. ET 2006

(KFFL) K.C. Johnson, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears QB Rex Grossman is still the team's starting quarterback, according to head coach Lovie Smith. QB Brian Griese played well in his preseason game and fueled talk of a quarterback controversy. However, Griese isn't even thinking about it and added, "I'm thinking about trying to get better as a player, learning this offense, getting used to (offensive coordinator Ron Turner) and the way he calls plays, and really proving myself to the guys on the team."

 

[nflguru]

Published Sun Aug 13 12:38:00 a.m. ET 2006 (KFFL) K.C. Johnson, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears QB Rex Grossman is still the team's starting quarterback, according to head coach Lovie Smith. QB Brian Griese played well in his preseason game and fueled talk of a quarterback controversy. However, Griese isn't even thinking about it and added, "I'm thinking about trying to get better as a player, learning this offense, getting used to (offensive coordinator Ron Turner) and the way he calls plays, and really proving myself to the guys on the team."

If Grossman stumbles within the first few weeks the city will be up in arms about Griese getting a chance... By week 5 if grossman hasnt been on his game Griese will be starting...From what I have seen over several years, Griese should be the starter out right... Grossman is unproven and when he has been in, i haven't been that impressed.

 

[mcjc4]

Well after this game against the 49ers, let the QB controversy BEGIN! As a Vikings fan, i am rooting for Rex to start, he is unproven, and has little experience. give him 10-12 weeks!

 

[FreeBaGeL]

All I know is that in the regular season and playoffs whenever Grossman has been in there the offense has looked a whole lot better than with him not in there.

All the other guys can win as many preseason games as they want.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

All I know is that in the regular season and playoffs whenever Grossman has been in there the offense has looked a whole lot better than with him not in there.All the other guys can win as many preseason games as they want.

Thanks for pointing out that Grossman is better than rookie Kyle Orton and Steve Hutchinson/Craig Krenzel the year prior. Jeff Blake looked better than BOTH of them last year - yet you don't see Blake back as the starter. Look at last year's QB rankings again..

 

[SSOG]

Published Sun Aug 13 12:38:00 a.m. ET 2006 (KFFL) K.C. Johnson, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears QB Rex Grossman is still the team's starting quarterback, according to head coach Lovie Smith. QB Brian Griese played well in his preseason game and fueled talk of a quarterback controversy. However, Griese isn't even thinking about it and added, "I'm thinking about trying to get better as a player, learning this offense, getting used to (offensive coordinator Ron Turner) and the way he calls plays, and really proving myself to the guys on the team."

If Grossman stumbles within the first few weeks the city will be up in arms about Griese getting a chance... By week 5 if grossman hasnt been on his game Griese will be starting...From what I have seen over several years, Griese should be the starter out right... Grossman is unproven and when he has been in, i haven't been that impressed.

The city may be up in arms, but that's because the city needs a little bit of perspective. Griese has been run out of town three times in four years. I don't think any fan base has been sad to see him go.Also, as a Denver fan, from personal experience... Griese is a preseason hero. He *always* looks good in the preseason. Always has, probably always will.

 

[TommyGilmore]

The Bucs were winning in spite of him, not because of him.Grossman is a winner, and although he is more of the McNair/Dilfer breed than the Palmer/Manning breed, he is the much better QB option IMO.

You say Grossman is a winner, yet Griese has a higher winning %. You can't say that Griese's teams win "in spite of him" without saying the same about Grossman. They're both very similar QBs -- mediocre talents who do just enough to win.

 

[kevthegrad]

How strong is Grossman's hold on the starting gig in Chicago? I didn't see the game, but the numbers tell an interesting tail with Grossman going 3-11 and two fumbles and Griese going 6/7 134, 1 TD.

It's sorta "overreacting" I guess, but Grossman's the QB by HC decree only, and hasn't done much in the NFL to justify a definate hold on the job, no matter how much better than he Griese plays. The Bears, after all, should have a walk in the NFC North, and are contenders.

I don't think you're over reacting. The first week Griese was signed there were a lot of reports that he'd be the starter. He looked great last year in Tampa before going down to injury, and I just think this team needs more poise and leadership than Grossman has been able to develop riding the pine the last 2 seasons...or is it 3? Poor brittle guy.

No, he looked horrendous. Guys like me were calling for him to be injured or benched for Simms last season because he single-handedly almost lost the four of their first five games last season. The Bucs were winning in spite of him, not because of him.

Grossman is a winner, and although he is more of the McNair/Dilfer breed than the Palmer/Manning breed, he is the much better QB option IMO.

Realize that Grossman was playing without both of his running backs (maybe more? Didn't watch the game). While Griese also was, do realize he was playing against backups and he's a starting-caliber QB. He should be expected to shred defenders on the bubble.

I'm telling you, Griese being 5 -1 before he went down to injury last year....PLUS strong performances here while Grossman stumbles will = QB controversy. Besides, Grossman's biggest challenge isn't from Griese, it's trying not to slip on a banana peel and breaking his ankle for the 14th time.

 

[MLBrandow]

I'm telling you, Griese being 5 -1 before he went down to injury last year....PLUS strong performances here while Grossman stumbles will = QB controversy. Besides, Grossman's biggest challenge isn't from Griese, it's trying not to slip on a banana peel and breaking his ankle for the 14th time.

You think the 44.6 4thQ QB rating is the reason the Bucs were 5-1?The fans might think there's a controversy, but I guarantee you Smith and Angelo don't.

 

[TommyGilmore]

I'm telling you, Griese being 5 -1 before he went down to injury last year....PLUS strong performances here while Grossman stumbles will = QB controversy. Besides, Grossman's biggest challenge isn't from Griese, it's trying not to slip on a banana peel and breaking his ankle for the 14th time.

You think the 44.6 4thQ QB rating is the reason the Bucs were 5-1?

No, it was probably his 87.8 QB rating for the other 3 quarters. Which, by the way, is higher than any QB rating that Grossman has ever posted in his 3 seasons.

 

[MLBrandow]

I'm telling you, Griese being 5 -1 before he went down to injury last year....PLUS strong performances here while Grossman stumbles will = QB controversy. Besides, Grossman's biggest challenge isn't from Griese, it's trying not to slip on a banana peel and breaking his ankle for the 14th time.

You think the 44.6 4thQ QB rating is the reason the Bucs were 5-1?

No, it was probably his 87.8 QB rating for the other 3 quarters. Which, by the way, is higher than any QB rating that Grossman has ever posted in his 3 seasons.

That's like saying "I'd rather have a QB that I can depend on in the regular season than one who will win me playoff games."Not to say Grossman is the latter QB, because we certainly don't know. But what we do know is what Griese can do. And that's not win playoff games.

 

[TommyGilmore]

But what we do know is what Griese can do. And that's not win playoff games.

Brian Griese has a better playoff record than Rex Grossman. HTH.

 

[FairWarning]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

 

[CalBear]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Problem is, Griese is better than Grossman in all the other football stats, too.

 

[FFFIEND]

Griese or Grossman

Griese or Grossman

Sounds like a night at the Waffle House...

Probably the best last name 2 QB combo in NFL history.

What Grossman has in moxy, he LACKS in tallent.

I vote Griese by week 5 or whenever Grossman gets hurt again.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Problem is, Griese is better than Grossman in all the other football stats, too.

Yeah, because QB rating for a guy with 50 starts is fair to compare to a QBs first 7 starts. Heck, Griese's QB rating is better than Peyton Manning's was through 7 games, and through his first 2 years. I'm surprised Indy didn't make a push for him this offseason.

 

[CalBear]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Problem is, Griese is better than Grossman in all the other football stats, too.

Yeah, because QB rating for a guy with 50 starts is fair to compare to a QBs first 7 starts. Heck, Griese's QB rating is better than Peyton Manning's was through 7 games, and through his first 2 years. I'm surprised Indy didn't make a push for him this offseason.

Grossman has had three years in the system. It's true that he has been so pathetically fragile that he hasn't gotten much game experience in that time frame, but consider that in his last 120 attempts (5 games over 2 years), he's thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs with a 54% completion rating, and now in the pre-season of his fourth year he's still playing poorly. What has this guy done to merit a starting job?

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Problem is, Griese is better than Grossman in all the other football stats, too.

Yeah, because QB rating for a guy with 50 starts is fair to compare to a QBs first 7 starts. Heck, Griese's QB rating is better than Peyton Manning's was through 7 games, and through his first 2 years. I'm surprised Indy didn't make a push for him this offseason.

Grossman has had three years in the system. It's true that he has been so pathetically fragile that he hasn't gotten much game experience in that time frame, but consider that in his last 120 attempts (5 games over 2 years), he's thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs with a 54% completion rating, and now in the pre-season of his fourth year he's still playing poorly. What has this guy done to merit a starting job?

Ron Turner has been the Bears offensive coordinator for ONE year, so how in the hell has Grossman been in his 'system' for three years?If Griese's knee is recovered, and Grossman continues to spit the bit, I see no reason why Lovie Smith doesn't pull the trigger and make a change. He knows this team is poised for something special - and his agent was thumping for a bump in pay last year - but it fell on deaf ears (and I agree on that by the Bears management team). So basically, Lovie Smith is playing for a new contract in addition to trying to progress in the playoffs. He's currently the 34th highest paid coach in the NFL - I'll let you brainiacs figure that one out....

 

[Jason Wood]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Hmmm, and here I thought a QB's job was to win football games. Glad someone clarified that for me.

 

[ericttspikes]

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Hmmm, and here I thought a QB's job was to win football games. Glad someone clarified that for me.

I actually think Orton should of gotten MVP consideration for winning. Fire away.

 

[SSOG]

Grossman has had three years in the system. It's true that he has been so pathetically fragile that he hasn't gotten much game experience in that time frame, but consider that in his last 120 attempts (5 games over 2 years), he's thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs with a 54% completion rating, and now in the pre-season of his fourth year he's still playing poorly. What has this guy done to merit a starting job?

Grossman got injured last preseason because a 300 pound man fell on his ankle. First off, that's not a chronic injury. Second off, that's not an injurey that's indicative of future injuries, like pulls, strains, sprains, and the like.If a 300 pound man fell on Brett Favre's ankle, I guarantee you it would break. Fragility has nothing to do with it. Luck has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The most overrated football stat is the starting qb's W/L record. By this thinking, Kyle Orton should have had MVP consideration last year.

Hmmm, and here I thought a QB's job was to win football games. Glad someone clarified that for me.

You know what my favorite part about Rod Smith is? He's pissed off that people don't track Winning% for WRs like they do for QBs. He'd give up the yards and the catches and everything, the only stat he cares about is his winning percentage. That's the kind of guy that I want playing for my team.For the record, it's over 69%, higher than Jerry Rice's and even John Elway's (Elway's the winningest QB of all time in terms of total wins and percentage).