Still think Edward Snowden is a hero? (1 Viewer)

[Doctor Detroit]

#### the govt, we didn't grant them the right to spy on us. I'm glad snowden leaked

Same guy who is a paranoid delusional about refugees lighting the American countryside on fire doesn't like us spying on possible terrorists domestically. Well that is just so cute.

Then when something happens Tommyboy is the first one in the thread blasting the government for not having intelligence of possible attacks. You know, because he's a ####### hypocrite and all.

show me where i said that bolded part

I never said I don't like or approve of spying on terrorists domestically. I don't like the other part you left out where the gov't just spies on everyone, not just the terrorists.

I've never blasted the gov't for not having intelligence on attacks. We usually have good intelligence, even in the pre 9-11 times.

argue in good faith, or just don't argue at all

You can't have it both ways. If you are monitoring the activities of 20 possible terrorists, they are going to have contacts with hundreds or thousands of people. You have to close the loop on every single one of those sources, you can't just assume because they are Joe Citizen that they aren't assisting in conducting a domestic terror op. All the other stuff is static, no one gives a #### about who is telling their wife they are going to an AA but instead they are going to plow some hookers. No one cares about your shopping list for Christmas you emailed to your wife, your kids dental bill you are #####ing about on the phone, or the meme you texted to your fiend.

Also the whole thing with arguing in good faith, I will if you will. Tell me how Obama has ruined the VA and the military like you said last night. Start there, then we'll see. Otherwise I'm not sure anyone should take you seriously. Over half your posts are anti-Obama rhetoric, your whole life seems to be dedicated to this end. It's really sad when you are dropping Obama hate bombs on an internet message baord while at CFB game. Sick even.

 

[Skoo]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

Been a while since you've read 1984, eh?

They will always take away your freedoms in the name of security.

I find it weird that the people who claim to be all about freedom, the Constitution, and small government are Snowden haters.

 

[The_Man]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

 

[The_Man]

If the 4th Amendment isn't that important to you, is it ok for there to be warrantless searches of mosques, as Trump said today?

Let's talk about the 1st Amendment. Is it important enough to actually uphold, or should we heed Trump's call for faith-based ID requirements? Hey, I have an idea - maybe Muslims can wear some kind of brightly colored patch on their garments as a form of ID.

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, who has called for expanded surveillance of American Muslims, is refusing to rule out extreme measures that include warrantless searches or faith-based identification requirements.

"We're going to have to do things that we never did before. Some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling that security is going to rule,” Trump told Yahoo News in an interview published Thursday. “And certain things will be done that we never thought would happen in this country in terms of information and learning about the enemy. And so we’re going to have to do certain things that were frankly unthinkable a year ago.”

When pressed on whether these measures might include tracking Muslim Americans in a database or noting their religious affiliations on identification cards, Trump would not go into detail -- but did not reject the options.

“We’re going to have to — we’re going to have to look at a lot of things very closely,” Trump said. “We’re going to have to look at the mosques. We’re going to have to look very, very carefully.”

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

 

[tommyboy]

#### the govt, we didn't grant them the right to spy on us. I'm glad snowden leaked

Same guy who is a paranoid delusional about refugees lighting the American countryside on fire doesn't like us spying on possible terrorists domestically. Well that is just so cute.

Then when something happens Tommyboy is the first one in the thread blasting the government for not having intelligence of possible attacks. You know, because he's a ####### hypocrite and all.

show me where i said that bolded part

I never said I don't like or approve of spying on terrorists domestically. I don't like the other part you left out where the gov't just spies on everyone, not just the terrorists.

I've never blasted the gov't for not having intelligence on attacks. We usually have good intelligence, even in the pre 9-11 times.

argue in good faith, or just don't argue at all

You can't have it both ways. If you are monitoring the activities of 20 possible terrorists, they are going to have contacts with hundreds or thousands of people. You have to close the loop on every single one of those sources, you can't just assume because they are Joe Citizen that they aren't assisting in conducting a domestic terror op. All the other stuff is static, no one gives a #### about who is telling their wife they are going to an AA but instead they are going to plow some hookers. No one cares about your shopping list for Christmas you emailed to your wife, your kids dental bill you are #####ing about on the phone, or the meme you texted to your fiend. Also the whole thing with arguing in good faith, I will if you will. Tell me how Obama has ruined the VA and the military like you said last night. Start there, then we'll see. Otherwise I'm not sure anyone should take you seriously. Over half your posts are anti-Obama rhetoric, your whole life seems to be dedicated to this end. It's really sad when you are dropping Obama hate bombs on an internet message baord while at CFB game. Sick even.

Virtually none of what you justed wasted 5 mins writing is true.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

#### the govt, we didn't grant them the right to spy on us. I'm glad snowden leaked

Same guy who is a paranoid delusional about refugees lighting the American countryside on fire doesn't like us spying on possible terrorists domestically. Well that is just so cute.

Then when something happens Tommyboy is the first one in the thread blasting the government for not having intelligence of possible attacks. You know, because he's a ####### hypocrite and all.

show me where i said that bolded part

I never said I don't like or approve of spying on terrorists domestically. I don't like the other part you left out where the gov't just spies on everyone, not just the terrorists.

I've never blasted the gov't for not having intelligence on attacks. We usually have good intelligence, even in the pre 9-11 times.

argue in good faith, or just don't argue at all

You can't have it both ways. If you are monitoring the activities of 20 possible terrorists, they are going to have contacts with hundreds or thousands of people. You have to close the loop on every single one of those sources, you can't just assume because they are Joe Citizen that they aren't assisting in conducting a domestic terror op. All the other stuff is static, no one gives a #### about who is telling their wife they are going to an AA but instead they are going to plow some hookers. No one cares about your shopping list for Christmas you emailed to your wife, your kids dental bill you are #####ing about on the phone, or the meme you texted to your fiend. Also the whole thing with arguing in good faith, I will if you will. Tell me how Obama has ruined the VA and the military like you said last night. Start there, then we'll see. Otherwise I'm not sure anyone should take you seriously. Over half your posts are anti-Obama rhetoric, your whole life seems to be dedicated to this end. It's really sad when you are dropping Obama hate bombs on an internet message baord while at CFB game. Sick even.

Virtually none of what you justed wasted 5 mins writing is true.

I'd ask you to go on, but I know you can't.

 

[The_Man]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

I understand that and am willing to accept the risk, a risk which I believe is minimal. I don't understand why so many people in America today choose to live their lives in such abject fear. Our country has arguably never been safer. There have always been threats to our health and well-being, and somehow we managed to weather them without trashing the Bill of Rights - and the times we wavered from our founding ideals, like with Japanese internment, are now rightfully viewed as shameful episodes in our history.

What is so different today? Did 9/11 truly make us value the promise of security so much that we're willing to give up our principles to pursue it?

I believe that our current era will one day be viewed as a shameful time when we let fear misguide our actions. But I worry we might give into fear so much that we give away so much authority to the state that we never get it back again. That's the beauty - from an authoritarian point of view - of today's global war on terror. Everywhere is a battlefront in a war that never ends, so there's no place that can't be touched and no action that can't be justified in the name of protecting our security.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOM

I'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

 

[Politician Spock]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

I understand that and am willing to accept the risk, a risk which I believe is minimal. I don't understand why so many people in America today choose to live their lives in such abject fear. Our country has arguably never been safer. There have always been threats to our health and well-being, and somehow we managed to weather them without trashing the Bill of Rights - and the times we wavered from our founding ideals, like with Japanese internment, are now rightfully viewed as shameful episodes in our history.

What is so different today? Did 9/11 truly make us value the promise of security so much that we're willing to give up our principles to pursue it?

I believe that our current era will one day be viewed as a shameful time when we let fear misguide our actions. But I worry we might give into fear so much that we give away so much authority to the state that we never get it back again. That's the beauty - from an authoritarian point of view - of today's global war on terror. Everywhere is a battlefront in a war that never ends, so there's no place that can't be touched and no action that can't be justified in the name of protecting our security.

Well I think the fear probably goes both ways. The fear of the government spying is probably akin to the fear we will be attacked by rouge terrorists, but it seems the former is more prevalent.

For me personally National Security is first and foremost, and to that end anything that can be done within reason to ensure it is acceptable to me. I am willing to give a small portion of my personal rights for all U.S. citizens to be safe in the homeland.

You could very well be right that this era will be viewed as shameful in the sense of personal liberties. But I also hope that this era will most importantly ensure the safety and security of Americans and the places we live and breathe.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

I heard some experts this last week talking about how cell phone app/software makers had a duty to give up cell phone encryption technology used in specific programs to friendly governments. Yeah that's gonna happen. Why would anyone give up proprietary technology pattens for "what ifs?" I don't see it.

 

[The_Man]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

I understand that and am willing to accept the risk, a risk which I believe is minimal. I don't understand why so many people in America today choose to live their lives in such abject fear. Our country has arguably never been safer. There have always been threats to our health and well-being, and somehow we managed to weather them without trashing the Bill of Rights - and the times we wavered from our founding ideals, like with Japanese internment, are now rightfully viewed as shameful episodes in our history.

What is so different today? Did 9/11 truly make us value the promise of security so much that we're willing to give up our principles to pursue it?

I believe that our current era will one day be viewed as a shameful time when we let fear misguide our actions. But I worry we might give into fear so much that we give away so much authority to the state that we never get it back again. That's the beauty - from an authoritarian point of view - of today's global war on terror. Everywhere is a battlefront in a war that never ends, so there's no place that can't be touched and no action that can't be justified in the name of protecting our security.

Well I think the fear probably goes both ways. The fear of the government spying is probably akin to the fear we will be attacked by rouge terrorists, but it seems the former is more prevalent.

You really think more people are scared of government spying than fear terrorism? I don't see it that way at all. For example:

June 1, 2015 - A new CNN/ORC poll, which surveyed 1,025 U.S. adults via phone from May 29 to May 31, found that 61 percent of Americans support the Patriot Act's renewal, while just 36 percent of respondents were opposed to renewing the law.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

I heard some experts this last week talking about how cell phone app/software makers had a duty to give up cell phone encryption technology used in specific programs to friendly governments. Yeah that's gonna happen. Why would anyone give up proprietary technology pattens for "what ifs?" I don't see it.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that question. it's not for "what ifs". It's for millions of dollars. It's happened. There's tons of other examples.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The latest I heard is anti-terrorist agencies want Apple, Google and other app makers to allow them "front-door" access to media records based on court orders.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The latest I heard is anti-terrorist agencies want Apple, Google and other app makers to allow them "front-door" access to media records based on court orders.

I like the new approach of "we encrypt everything for security reasons, and can't". Many of these companies already took the black eye for trying to play ball with the NSA 6-10 years ago.

 

[hagmania]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

Who in their right mind blames the government for this? Blame the ####### terrorists for making the bomb.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

I heard some experts this last week talking about how cell phone app/software makers had a duty to give up cell phone encryption technology used in specific programs to friendly governments. Yeah that's gonna happen. Why would anyone give up proprietary technology pattens for "what ifs?" I don't see it.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that question. it's not for "what ifs". It's for millions of dollars. It's happened. There's tons of other examples.

Give up<>sold for profit

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

Who in their right mind blames the government for this?

Everyone tried to find someone to blame for 9/11 or Benghazi, or the Embassy bombings, or any other terrorist attack that ever happened.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

I heard some experts this last week talking about how cell phone app/software makers had a duty to give up cell phone encryption technology used in specific programs to friendly governments. Yeah that's gonna happen. Why would anyone give up proprietary technology pattens for "what ifs?" I don't see it.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that question. it's not for "what ifs". It's for millions of dollars. It's happened. There's tons of other examples.

Give up<>sold for profit

one could argue that taking greasy under-the-table money to break your security while you're selling yourself to the public as a leader in the security field is not really "sold for profit" either. It's borderline criminal and negligent.

 

[hagmania]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

Who in their right mind blames the government for this?

Everyone tried to find someone to blame for 9/11 or Benghazi, or the Embassy bombings, or any other terrorist attack that ever happened.

I never understood any of that tbqf. Why does there have to be someone to blame besides the people that committed the terror?I guess it's just a common response to say, "Why didn't you do something?" to the govt when something goes wrong. They sure do a lot of somethings when things are going right.

 

[hagmania]

Why is the NSA mad? Aren't they a part of the government which is working for the people, and if the people don't want to be spied on, then that's that? Do the best with what you have within the legal limits of our constitution.

Being upset makes me think they are using the data for something other than security.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

No, no they are not. I'm fine with your stance on your right to not have your grocery list subject to monitoring, but you also need to understand that another citizens grocery list might actually include bomb making materials they are going to give to Islamist guy to blow up your grocery store. When that happens, don't point fingers at your government for not doing their all to monitor the activities of suspicious behaviors. Accept that you gave up your grocery store for your individual inviolable rights.

The scary part isn't the government's access to the info. The scary part is government's potential misinterpretation of what they are seeing. I don't want to spend the next ten years of my life trying to get my life back because analysts misinterpreted the list of supplies I needed for three different projects I'm working on as a plot to blow something up, because someone wanting to build a bomb would buy those supplies together. The government doesn't always have the whole story. In fact, they rarely do. And when it comes to terrorism, people are guilty until proven innocent.

The other scary part of it is that the governments leaning on hardware and software manufacturers so that they can have their access to whatever they want with their "TOP SEKRET GOVERNMENT ONLY" backdoors makes security much worse and everyone's information more available to scammers, thieves, and other bad guys.

I heard some experts this last week talking about how cell phone app/software makers had a duty to give up cell phone encryption technology used in specific programs to friendly governments. Yeah that's gonna happen. Why would anyone give up proprietary technology pattens for "what ifs?" I don't see it.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that question. it's not for "what ifs". It's for millions of dollars. It's happened. There's tons of other examples.

Give up<>sold for profit

one could argue that taking greasy under-the-table money to break your security while you're selling yourself to the public as a leader in the security field is not really "sold for profit" either. It's borderline criminal and negligent.

I'm not saying it's right, but at least they are profiting from it. There were people on TV saying these technology producers should be assisting governments. IMO it is up to government to find the answers on their own, with code breaking and other methods used to extract data.

 

[whoknew]

Why is the NSA mad? Aren't they a part of the government which is working for the people, and if the people don't want to be spied on, then that's that? Do the best with what you have within the legal limits of our constitution.

Being upset makes me think they are using the data for something other than security.

You don't say.

(All this surveillance is really being used in the drug war. Illegally.)

 

[whoknew]

Its all about the drug war.

 

[Otis]

Calling someone a "privacy nerd" because he doesn't think the government should be engaged in constant surveillance of its citizens is really creepy.

Which candidate is running on the "Keeping Otis Safe" platform?

What are you hiding?

 

[Otis]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?

That's super different. You know better.

 

[NutterButter]

All I want to know is do I get to choose the corner of my living room the government installs its camera?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?

That's super different. You know better.

Oh, so you do recognize that privacy in communications is a good thing.

The US government has pretty unequivocally made encryption less secure, and is still trying to push more in that direction. So, no, they're not directly using a brute force attack on your local credit union, but in weakening protocols for their own gain they harm all of us.

 

[Politician Spock]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

What's stopping them?

 

[The_Man]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

Now who's being naive?

 

[roadkill1292]

Calling someone a "privacy nerd" because he doesn't think the government should be engaged in constant surveillance of its citizens is really creepy.

Which candidate is running on the "Keeping Otis Safe" platform?

What are you hiding?

I presume this is schtick but the question shows how the presumption of innocence comes under attack when people resist being the subjects of constant surveillance. "If he doesn't want cameras everywhere, he must be hiding something. We'd better watch him more closely."

 

[Joe T]

I think Edward Norton is a hero.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Still a traitor.

 

[flapgreen]

Don't know him

 

[grateful zed]

yeppers

 

[Otis]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

What's stopping them?

If the government starts stealing our money from our bank accounts, we have much bigger problems than the feds mapping out my Twinkie purchasing habits.

 

[Otis]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

 

[SWC]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

maybe just stop brohan you got it handed to you earlier coming back after waiting a wile does not make that unhappen take that to the bank

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

Yes. The freedom to know that you wont be charged and possibly convicted of something... which is irregardless of whether you have done anything wrong.

 

[Politician Spock]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

What's stopping them?

If the government starts stealing our money from our bank accounts, we have much bigger problems than the feds mapping out my Twinkie purchasing habits.

Again, what's stopping them?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

Yes. The freedom to know that you wont be charged and possibly convicted of something... which is irregardless of whether you have done anything wrong.

Like for example?

 

[Statorama]

A discussion of whether or not my private matters are interesting (and they are definitely not) is completely beside the point.

As Americans, we have the inviolable right to be secure in our houses, and our papers, and our conversations, and to not have them searched without a warrant based upon probable cause.

I am not willing to give up one fraction of that right, just because it doesn't seem likely such surrender will result in negative consequences for me. Just like I'm not willing to give up my right to free speech even though I'm unlikely to say anything that will get me in trouble.

Preach brother. Perfectly stated.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

What's stopping them?

If the government starts stealing our money from our bank accounts, we have much bigger problems than the feds mapping out my Twinkie purchasing habits.

They already tell you how much money you are giving them for many of their wasteful programs and you go to jail if you don't pay them.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

Yes. The freedom to know that you wont be charged and possibly convicted of something... which is irregardless of whether you have done anything wrong.

Like for example?

You'll need to finite it yourself.

Just search "wrongfully arrested" or "wrongfully convicted" or "wrongfully searched" and you will find examples if you look hard enough.

Ill I can give you offhand is anecdotal.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

Yes. The freedom to know that you wont be charged and possibly convicted of something... which is irregardless of whether you have done anything wrong.

Like for example?

You'll need to finite it yourself.

Just search "wrongfully arrested" or "wrongfully convicted" or "wrongfully searched" and you will find examples if you look hard enough.

Ill I can give you offhand is anecdotal.

I'll take your word for it.

 

[grateful zed]

If the government starts stealing our money from our bank accounts,

where were you in 2008?

 

[PIK95]

Can we go back to the part where someone explains to me what freedom I give up if someone is watching me?

maybe just stop brohan you got it handed to you earlier coming back after waiting a wile does not make that unhappen take that to the bank

YES!

 

[Otis]

Not a hero. The privacy nerds need to accept the monitoring is for the greater good. Guess what, nobody really cares that you went to Target or worked on your basement finishing project this weekend or that you watched a pron on the web, so stop pretending like you're hiding really important personal stuff from the govrnement.

If monitoring me means a better chance of me and mine not being kilt, have at it. You'll quickly become bored with what you're seeing and move on to the next guy.

I understand completely that the government will abuse this power and I'm cool with it given the end game. When they start popping up on my TV and telling me the pron is going away, then I draw the line.

Yes give away your liberty. Give away your freedoms someone fought and died for. All for the illusion of safety and it is am illusion. Your children will reap what you sow.

What liberty and freedom am I giving away here? So the government wants to listen in on my FaceTime with my kids? K. They wanna see the receipt from my trip to Lowe's? OMG MY FREEDOMI'll never get that sentiment. I guess if you're doing stuff that's illegal and you won't want them to find out, maybe it's an issue. My life isn't that exciting.

Is this more a "slippery slope" concern? Like today they're looking at your Home Depot shopping list, and tomorrow they're not letting you go to Home Depot anymore!

?

You mind posting your SSN and Visa # here, since privacy doesn't matter?

Has the government started hacking Citibank accounts?That's super different. You know better.

What's stopping them?

If the government starts stealing our money from our bank accounts, we have much bigger problems than the feds mapping out my Twinkie purchasing habits.

Again, what's stopping them?

I guess nothing. So is that what you guys are concerned about when you say loss of freedom? Freedom from having the government steal your stuff? Is that really the reason folks don't like government monitoring, is because they think the government is going to steal their PIN code and make some quiet withdrawals?