Student Debt Protests (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

I say make them able to be discharged as well. But then when the court grants the discharge, your degree is invalidated--seems pretty simple. If the whole argument is that "I didn't make as much as I thought I would when I graduated," then that is fair. You get a do over, loan is discharged, degree is gone. You can go back and start over.

I mean I come at this from two sides: my wife went to a private school, had good scholarships, but still ended up paying for her senior year. She went back to get her masters at a more affordable school and took some lesser student loans. She graduated 16 years ago and we still have a student loan payment. My wife was a special ed teacher in a low economic school and under some of the programs, she could have gotten her debt forgiven after 10 years, but because my wife took a certain type of loan, it couldn't be. It sucks, but we cut that $450.00 check every month and will be doing this for a long time. She took the money, she got the benefit of it and that enabled her to get the administrative job she has now. We owe the money. Plain and simple.

My daughter is 16 (I have written about her before), incredibly bright, #3 in a class of almost 600. 4.7 GPA--taking mostly AP/advanced course that will enable her to get enough college credits to qualify for almost 2 years of total college credit when she graduates HS. She is looking at schools. CU at Colorado Springs and CSU will basically give her enough grants and with scholarships, she will attend almost for free. CU is like 18K a year. She has her heart set on Colorado College--they will not honor as many of the credits and we are uncertain about the grant situation ( I have a meeting in January with them), but they require her to stay on campus (even though we live 15 minutes away). Total cost per year 68k. I am doing my best to steer her to CU because she will have little to no debt and a 4 year degree. Going her route will net her close to 6 figures in debt after two years.

She doesn't "have" to go to CC, she wants to. And I would guess a lot of the students that are complaining are finding themselves in the same situation. They "want" to go to a certain school and disregard the price tag when they could have gone to another school and paid less. No one made the protesters go to Berkley, they made a choice to go there.

My caveat is the people that were duped by the "for profit" schools that got a worthless degrees, I believe there should be some form of relief offered to them.

Now get off my lawn......

1. 16 years out of school and your wife is still paying $450/month? Is it a crazy high interest rate or something? How much debt did she start out with?

2. Honestly, I wouldn't let my daughter go to a college that is 68k/year. That is just insane. Setting herself up for years and most likely decades of financial misery.

1. You can pay over 30 years. My loan is ~$100k and the payment is ~$500 for 30 years.

2. Agree, unless it's for an in-demand, specialized degree.

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

One thing I havent seen mentioned (although I mostly scanned the 5 pages) is that a lot of this debt students these days are taking arent even for school. I graduated from University of Chicago with my MBA in 2011 and over $165k in debt. Classes should have only totaled about $110k, but they would give me more, so I took it since I like drinking, snowboarding trips and high rise apartments with city views. I was a moron. I knew what I was doing and figured "it will all work out eventually!" Lucky for me it did and I paid off my student loans in full earlier this year, but for most others it hasnt. There needs to be a better system that limits your borrowing to actual school costs. It sounds ridiculous, but we need to protect these students from themselves.

As for student loan forgiveness, I'm not sure where I stand on that. When I graduated with those loans I started off on income based repayment because I most certainly couldnt afford the $2500+ a month payments they wanted for the next 10 years. I just went on IBR and didnt complain because it was my choice to borrow. The sad thing is I dont think everyone has that self awareness and realizes its their choice. We need to help them make better choices by not making it so easy to get these large loans.

And people need to realize not everyone needs to go to college. My little brother got a 4 year degree and then decided he didnt like what he was doing. He then entered the trades as a teamster and is doing great. He wishes he would have went in the trades right out of high school like some of my friends. All my friends in the trade unions make plenty of money for themselves and their families and have no debt. 75%+ of students taking out loans shouldnt be and should be looking into other careers they can earn a fantastic living in.

Who going to be in a position if they aren't able to physically do their trade job anymore - your little brother or your friends?

Is there a missing word in here somewhere? Not sure what you are asking?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

 

[RnR]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

 

[cstu]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

You should look up the Paradox of Subsidies.

 

[cstu]

You should look up the Paradox of Subsidies.

These things stand out as to why college costs are increasing:

- Between 1987 and 2012, in real dollars, government support has declined from $8,497 to $5,906 per student

- Increasing administration costs, including large salaries for administrators

- Increased amenity spending (including athletics)

- Increased number of tenured professors who spend more time researching than teaching

As for the 'Bennett Hypothesis' you're referring to, there appear to be two types of schools raising costs due to increases in financial aid - for-profit schools and expensive non-profit schools:

https://kelchenoneducation.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/new-evidence-on-the-bennett-hypothesis-and-federal-student-aid/

Two recent studies have pushed the research frontier forward by estimating the relationship between small changes in federal aid and colleges’ pricing strategy. The first is a job market paper by Christopher Lau, a recent economics PhD graduate from Northwestern. Using a rather complicated analytic strategy (read the methods section and see for yourself!), he estimated that for-profit colleges captured approximately 57 cents of each additional dollar of federal grant aid and 51 cents of each additional dollar of federal loan aid. Community colleges captured a smaller portion of federal aid dollars (37% of grant aid and 25% of loan aid), which is unsurprising given that the maximum Pell Grant is larger than community college tuition in nearly all states. Additionally, states often limit the amount that public colleges can increase tuition, reducing the opportunity for strategic behavior.

The second examination of the Bennett Hypothesis is a newly released report from three economists at the New York Fed. They used increases to federal subsidized and unsubsidized loan limits in 2007 as well as maximum Pell Grant awards to see whether colleges responded by increasing tuition. They found that colleges did increase posted tuition (not necessarily net tuition) at a higher rate after loan limits increased, with the magnitude being approximately 55 cents for each dollar of additional Pell Grant aid and 65 cents for each dollar of subsidized loan aid. These effects were largest for the most expensive private nonprofit colleges, where the maximum amount of federal loans ($5,500 for a first-year student) only covers a small portion of tuition.

An even more interesting finding from the Fed paper is that shareholders in for-profit colleges responded favorably to the passage of legislation that increased federal financial aid amounts. They concluded that across three pieces of legislation, the cumulative increase in stock prices was about 10% above what would have been expected without an increase. Given the high (at the time) public valuations of large publicly traded for-profits, this represented a large increase in valuation. It is also worth noting that because for-profits have to get at least 10% of their revenue from non-federal sources or veteran’s benefits, some colleges may have had to increase tuition in order for students to take out private loans to stay clear of the so-called ‘90/10’ rule.

 

[RnR]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

I picked a program that was economically prudent, saved up in advance, cut expenses during school, worked extra hours, and paid my grad degree off before the six month grace period was over after graduation.

If these folks get their way, you'll get the equivalent of a mortgage pardoned and I'll be given a pat on the back for doing the right thing. Pardon me if I'm bitter.

 

[cstu]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

I picked a program that was economically prudent, saved up in advance, cut expenses during school, worked extra hours, and paid my grad degree off before the six month grace period was over after graduation.

If these folks get their way, you'll get the equivalent of a mortgage pardoned and I'll be given a pat on the back for doing the right thing. Pardon me if I'm bitter.

With no help from your parents? if that's the case.

I'm not in favor of pardoning loans - if you borrowed the money you should pay it back. I don't necessarily think you did the 'right' thing - it was a financial decision you made.

 

[RnR]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

Considering he agreed to pay $500/month for 30 years to finance it, that's not surprising.

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

I picked a program that was economically prudent, saved up in advance, cut expenses during school, worked extra hours, and paid my grad degree off before the six month grace period was over after graduation.

If these folks get their way, you'll get the equivalent of a mortgage pardoned and I'll be given a pat on the back for doing the right thing. Pardon me if I'm bitter.

With no help from your parents? if that's the case.

I'm not in favor of pardoning loans - if you borrowed the money you should pay it back. I don't necessarily think you did the 'right' thing - it was a financial decision you made.

Yeah, this was not a consecutive degree attempt. I went back into school after being in the workforce.

Right, it was a financial decision. I probably shouldn't have singled your situation out as though you're asking for a handout or anything. My apologies for that.

I just get frustrated by the sense of entitlement that seems to growing in our young folks. No one is owed a college degree. If someone decides to go for post-secondary education, there are 1,000 different ways to pick a school that is the right fit for your personal situation, and then pay for it without ruining your financial future. It takes a little research, some sacrifice and hard work.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

You should look up the Paradox of Subsidies.

These things stand out as to why college costs are increasing:

- Between 1987 and 2012, in real dollars, government support has declined from $8,497 to $5,906 per student

- Increasing administration costs, including large salaries for administrators

- Increased amenity spending (including athletics)

- Increased number of tenured professors who spend more time researching than teaching

As for the 'Bennett Hypothesis' you're referring to, there appear to be two types of schools raising costs due to increases in financial aid - for-profit schools and expensive non-profit schools:

https://kelchenoneducation.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/new-evidence-on-the-bennett-hypothesis-and-federal-student-aid/

Two recent studies have pushed the research frontier forward by estimating the relationship between small changes in federal aid and colleges’ pricing strategy. The first is a job market paper by Christopher Lau, a recent economics PhD graduate from Northwestern. Using a rather complicated analytic strategy (read the methods section and see for yourself!), he estimated that for-profit colleges captured approximately 57 cents of each additional dollar of federal grant aid and 51 cents of each additional dollar of federal loan aid. Community colleges captured a smaller portion of federal aid dollars (37% of grant aid and 25% of loan aid), which is unsurprising given that the maximum Pell Grant is larger than community college tuition in nearly all states. Additionally, states often limit the amount that public colleges can increase tuition, reducing the opportunity for strategic behavior.

The second examination of the Bennett Hypothesis is a newly released report from three economists at the New York Fed. They used increases to federal subsidized and unsubsidized loan limits in 2007 as well as maximum Pell Grant awards to see whether colleges responded by increasing tuition. They found that colleges did increase posted tuition (not necessarily net tuition) at a higher rate after loan limits increased, with the magnitude being approximately 55 cents for each dollar of additional Pell Grant aid and 65 cents for each dollar of subsidized loan aid. These effects were largest for the most expensive private nonprofit colleges, where the maximum amount of federal loans ($5,500 for a first-year student) only covers a small portion of tuition.

An even more interesting finding from the Fed paper is that shareholders in for-profit colleges responded favorably to the passage of legislation that increased federal financial aid amounts. They concluded that across three pieces of legislation, the cumulative increase in stock prices was about 10% above what would have been expected without an increase. Given the high (at the time) public valuations of large publicly traded for-profits, this represented a large increase in valuation. It is also worth noting that because for-profits have to get at least 10% of their revenue from non-federal sources or veteran’s benefits, some colleges may have had to increase tuition in order for students to take out private loans to stay clear of the so-called ‘90/10’ rule.

Okay, let me put this in the simplest possible terms for you:

Any time you make financing more widely available via government action or make money cheaper it is inflationary.

 

[Christo]

Turns out Keely lived in a million dollar home growing up and went to a high school that cost $34k/yr.

 

[Henry Ford]

Turns out Keely lived in a million dollar home growing up and went to a high school that cost $34k/yr.

I can't believe she makes enough money to afford that house at her age. Crazy.

 

[sbonomo]

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

Then you didn't get very much for your money in your MBA.

 

[mr roboto]

Turns out Keely lived in a million dollar home growing up and went to a high school that cost $34k/yr.

I can't believe she makes enough money to afford that house at her age. Crazy.

You read the part where she claimed she grew up needing govt subsidies, right?

 

[Quez]

I'm sure it's not the entire problem, but for profit universities are a big part of it.

The lawsuit said the company had collected about $11 billion 90 percent of it in federal student aid through these aggressive tactics from 2003 to 2011. The federal government intervened in the lawsuit in 2011 under the False Claims Act.

In resolving the federal and state complaints, Education Management, which is owned partly by Goldman Sachs

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/us/for-profit-college-operator-edmc-will-forgive-student-loans.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

And yet many countries manage to not bankrupt a generation for an education more than one with completely free college. We compete with those countries but we will be losing if we are not producing the educated people we need. And lastly it would cost less for the US to just pay for it then the way we do it now.

How do we pay for everyone to go to school for free?

Do you even listen to yourself? It's free! That means we don't have to pay for it!

 

[Peyton Marino]

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

nice! 

 

[one time]

I know this is an old subject, but I went for my doctorate in pharmacy and received it 3.5 year ago. I had no assistance from anyone. I had virtually no loans from undergrad. After graduating, I had well over 200k in debt. Most of this debt is unsubsidized 8.6% loans that built up while I was in school.

The interest rate is RIDICULOUS on these unsubsidized student loans. Make it a more respectable number and I would be OK with it. The government is raking in money with people like me. It is to the point where if you don't come from money, you don't have the option to go to school for a myriad of different professions.

The school I went to has increased tuition for pharmacy almost 20,000$ since I first started there about 8 years ago (an increase of over 50%)

I would never be able to go to school for pharmacy if I was looking to apply this year in the same situation i was in 8 years ago.

TLDR: Lower the ridiculous rates

 

[MAC_32]

8.6%? I thought it was in the 5's?

 

[RnR]

I know this is an old subject, but I went for my doctorate in pharmacy and received it 3.5 year ago. I had no assistance from anyone. I had virtually no loans from undergrad. After graduating, I had well over 200k in debt. Most of this debt is unsubsidized 8.6% loans that built up while I was in school.

The interest rate is RIDICULOUS on these unsubsidized student loans. Make it a more respectable number and I would be OK with it. The government is raking in money with people like me. It is to the point where if you don't come from money, you don't have the option to go to school for a myriad of different professions.

The school I went to has increased tuition for pharmacy almost 20,000$ since I first started there about 8 years ago (an increase of over 50%)

I would never be able to go to school for pharmacy if I was looking to apply this year in the same situation i was in 8 years ago.

TLDR: Lower the ridiculous rates

You're taking an unsecured loan on something which they cannot repossess if you don't pay. What rate do you expect to pay on that, exactly?

 

[one time]

You're taking an unsecured loan on something which they cannot repossess if you don't pay. What rate do you expect to pay on that, exactly?

Considering there is no way out of paying it (bankruptcy) other than death and the interest accrues no matter what? A lot better than over double what it costs for a house. 

 

[mquinnjr]

I'm typiclly an Independent, but more and more I'm hating the left - Don't get me wrong, I hate the right as well, but who the #### do these entitled ####wads think they are?

1000's of students march across the country for free college

I mean really, #### off. Glad my kids will have a leg up on all these self entitled doucchebags.

Huge shocker here... Let me give you something for free, I'll call it advice; Go to a local junior college for 2 years, transfer into a state school, work while you do it, and you can have a four year degree with almost no debt when you graduate.

Oh, you want to go to Cal Berkley? Great, I want a $3.5M brownstone - I won't buy one because the mortgage will have me on suicide watch, so I'll look at something that fits my budget, you #######s should do the same.

:rantover: Good luck with life idiots. The more moron proof we make the world, the bigger the moron we create!

Where are we at for the Treasury possibly purchasing and firgiving 1.4B in student loan debt as it tapers from bond purchasing, letting interest rates rise back up naturally? Personally, I'm not at all a proponent for this. I feel the same way as I do towards an NFL player who holds out for an extension - you signed a legally binding contract, maybe go ahead and honor it?

WP Article on Door Opening to Potentially Extinguish Student Debt?

 

[stlrams]

Here's a novel idea - start saving for college when the kid is born and only go to a college you can afford....

 

[captain_amazing]

I believe this is the first year for students to submit for federal debt forgiveness under the federal student loan forgiveness program for students working at nonprofits... I could be wrong, it might be next year.  Curious to see how many people submit for that program.

 

[dickey moe]

So much wisdom in here. Sadly, a lot of dumbassery too.

 

[Max Power]

Here's a novel idea - start saving for college when the kid is born and only go to a college you can afford....

This is the plan for my kids.  Scholarships or armed services would be great.  Otherwise I'd like them to do two years at a CC and then transfer to a University for their Bachelor's degree. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Here's a novel idea - start saving for college when the kid is born and only go to a college you can afford....

I love the absolutes on this board.  You guys always make it sound so easy. 

 

[Insein]

Here's a novel idea - start saving for college when the kid is born and only go to a college you can afford....

If you can save an extra $100k-$200k in less than 18 years while paying all your other bills, salud.

 

[jonessed]

If you can save an extra $100k-$200k in less than 18 years while paying all your other bills, salud.

It's ####### impossible for most people.  The solution isn't to forgive debt, it's to cap loan amounts based on earning potential and push schools to fix their cost inflation.

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's ####### impossible for most people.  The solution isn't to forgive debt, it's to cap loan amounts based on earning potential and push schools to fix their cost inflation.

Agree 100%, but I also do think that it's ####ed up that this is about the only thing that people can't get out of if something catastrophic happens to them. 

I do like the idea that you posted, but not sure how that would work either.  Are you saying that each major would cost different based on expected life income?  So a teachers education would cost $40K, but and engineer $120K?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

If you can save an extra $100k-$200k in less than 18 years while paying all your other bills, salud.

There are lots of colleges that don't cost close to that amount.

Local to me is a world class university that costs $11,500/year full-time. I don't particularly want my kids to live at home while they go to college, but they could, and it would make the total cost of their education quite manageable. Admissions is pretty competitive though.

There is also a former Community College that recently converted to a four year college nearby. The costs are virtually the same as the world class university, but admissions is basically automatic.

We also have an acceptable in-state option where tuition is under $8,000/year, but it isn't within commuting range. It is in a small town with a far lower cost of living than our metro area has, but living expenses and fees still make the total cost ~$20,000/year.

Not every local area or state has the same options, I realize, but there are lots of ways for a student to get a college education for much less than $100K+.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Agree 100%, but I also do think that it's ####ed up that this is about the only thing that people can't get out of if something catastrophic happens to them. 

I do like the idea that you posted, but not sure how that would work either.  Are you saying that each major would cost different based on expected life income?  So a teachers education would cost $40K, but and engineer $120K?

I think he was proposing that the amount a student could borrow would be capped based on earnings potential. That isn't a crazy idea at all. It probably wouldn't result in radically different tuition for different majors, but it would be a step towards rationalizing the flow of money into higher education in a way that would probably force some change.

It would also help protect idiots from themselves. If borrowing was capped based on future earnings potential, there would be a lot fewer stories of people graduating from Northeastern Liberal Arts schools with six figures of student debt and the earnings prospects of somebody with a French Lit degree. 

 

[Buckna]

4% interest and I get to write off $2500 a year in interest.

No wonder he couldn't make good on all those bets.

 

[glock]

Not sure if it's been posted up in here yet, but Cuomo and NY have been receiving both cheers and raspberries while putting through the "free tuition" program for SUNY schools in time for the fall semester. Students coming from families making south of $100K make the cut this year, and its supposed to work it's way up to $125K within the next couple of years.

That's TUITION free. Students living on campus tuition free will still walk away spending $60-$70K over 4 years with room and board outpacing tuition 3:1. RA's can knock a lot off those numbers, but there are only so many RA positions on a campus. If college campus' need students living on them in order to build a thriving community and learning environment, then schools need to take a look at this.   

 

[Bronco Billy]

I wonder what would happen if universities stopped teaching relevant stuff like Gender Studies of 9th Century Pottery or White Oppresion of Glaciers and got back into the actual education business.

.

 

[glock]

I wonder what would happen if universities stopped teaching relevant stuff like Gender Studies of 9th Century Pottery or White Oppresion of Glaciers and got back into the actual education business.

.

Hmmm, the "only teach what I think is relevant or important" school of thought?

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hmmm, the "only teach what I think is relevant or important" school of thought?

How about teaching something that might make the students successful in their vocation after graduating?  Leave the hate filled rhetoric classes aimed at gearing up social warriors and the costs associated on the sidelines.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think he was proposing that the amount a student could borrow would be capped based on earnings potential. That isn't a crazy idea at all. It probably wouldn't result in radically different tuition for different majors, but it would be a step towards rationalizing the flow of money into higher education in a way that would probably force some change.

It would also help protect idiots from themselves. If borrowing was capped based on future earnings potential, there would be a lot fewer stories of people graduating from Northeastern Liberal Arts schools with six figures of student debt and the earnings prospects of somebody with a French Lit degree. 

I wonder what would happen if universities stopped teaching relevant stuff like Gender Studies of 9th Century Pottery or White Oppresion of Glaciers and got back into the actual education business.

.

Gotcha - so arts degree and the business degree would still both cost $100K, but the arts major could only borrow $50K?  (just throwing examples and #s around). 

I guess I am just artsy fartsy Lib, but I would also not be for going down that road of squeezing more and more arts and literature out of our lives and educational system, which is basically what this is getting at.  It would be really boring to just churn out engineers and business majors.  God forbid if somebody doesn't have the aptitude or interest in the science and math.  I am not saying there are majors that will struggle a lot more than others to pay off their debts than others or only have 1 or 2 paths to success, but I am not sure about this idea either. 

 

[E Street Brat]

So proud of my son who worked his way through college with very little debt and no help from pops.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How about teaching something that might make the students successful in their vocation after graduating?  Leave the hate filled rhetoric classes aimed at gearing up social warriors and the costs associated on the sidelines.

What if they are going to be a sociology major, a teacher, reporter, or researcher in these topics?  Or should these things just not be taught at all?

 

[Bronco Billy]

What if they are going to be a sociology major, a teacher, reporter, or researcher in these topics?  Or should these things just not be taught at all?

You mean those professions didn't exist before the universities started getting into the social justice business?  Huh.

 

[KarmaPolice]

There are lots of colleges that don't cost close to that amount.

Local to me is a world class university that costs $11,500/year full-time. I don't particularly want my kids to live at home while they go to college, but they could, and it would make the total cost of their education quite manageable. Admissions is pretty competitive though.

There is also a former Community College that recently converted to a four year college nearby. The costs are virtually the same as the world class university, but admissions is basically automatic.

We also have an acceptable in-state option where tuition is under $8,000/year, but it isn't within commuting range. It is in a small town with a far lower cost of living than our metro area has, but living expenses and fees still make the total cost ~$20,000/year.

Not every local area or state has the same options, I realize, but there are lots of ways for a student to get a college education for much less than $100K+.

I don't see a lot of these options as "much less than $100K", but we are probably just picking nits.   First option has the kids living at home, which doesn't include room and board, so that would easily be over that range.  the last one is still $80K, which is a ton of money and still around what we are talking about. 

I know it's been a long time, but just since I have gone to the state school here, I have seen the cost of going jump up by a factor of 8 to 10.  I am willing to guess that 0 careers have seen that same rate of increase in their salaries.  I am not sure what the answer is, but I just think it's sad that it feels like the only options for not saddling our kids with insane debt is staying at home for college, going to a CC, or hopefully they are really good at sports. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

You mean those professions didn't exist before the universities started getting into the social justice business?  Huh.

When did they get into the social justice business, and there weren't teachers/reporters/sociologists before that time?

I am guessing you are just annoyed the university systems don't churn out more people that think and vote like you do? 

 

[Bronco Billy]

When did they get into the social justice business, and there weren't teachers/reporters/sociologists before that time?

I am guessing you are just annoyed the university systems don't churn out more people that think and vote like you do? 

You would be guessing incorrectly.  Are you seriously going to pretend that the mission of the universities hasn't changed and that many of them haven't dedicated themselves to the social engineering of the students?  Do you believe that is the proper mission of a publicly funded university?

.

 

[Insein]

http://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/

Penn State University

$30-33k for Main Campus

$25-30k for any of the satellite campuses

That's a state school.  This is a problem.

 

[glock]

How about teaching something that might make the students successful in their vocation after graduating?  Leave the hate filled rhetoric classes aimed at gearing up social warriors and the costs associated on the sidelines.

Do you consider being a college professor successful? 

 

[Bronco Billy]

Do you consider being a college professor successful? 

What an odd question.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

You would be guessing incorrectly.  Are you seriously going to pretend that the mission of the universities hasn't changed and that many of them haven't dedicated themselves to the social engineering of the students?  Do you believe that is the proper mission of a publicly funded university?

.

No, that is not a proper mission of a public funded university, and no I don't believe that is the mission of a single public funded university. 

I have no doubt that you can find classes and profs riling people up one way or the other, but I think you need a tinfoil hat if you think that is the overall goal of a university or the system as a whole. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Gotcha - so arts degree and the business degree would still both cost $100K, but the arts major could only borrow $50K?  (just throwing examples and #s around). 

I guess I am just artsy fartsy Lib, but I would also not be for going down that road of squeezing more and more arts and literature out of our lives and educational system, which is basically what this is getting at.  It would be really boring to just churn out engineers and business majors.  God forbid if somebody doesn't have the aptitude or interest in the science and math.  I am not saying there are majors that will struggle a lot more than others to pay off their debts than others or only have 1 or 2 paths to success, but I am not sure about this idea either. 

I am a supporter of liberal arts as an educational pursuit. My undergrad degree was in communications, with a secondary focus on sociology (of course, in my case that was because I was a terrible student my first two years of college and couldn't get into competitive concentrations, but that is neither here nor there).

This is really a consumer protection proposal to stop young people who are not thinking practically or who are just bad at the maths from running up an unsustainable debt load to fund a degree with a very low ROI. 

I also think there should be massive limits placed on student debt provided to students at for-profit colleges, since that is the source of a huge amount of the bad student debt and most of those schools either deliver a pathetic ROI (despite most of them being pitched as career-enhancers) or are just plain scams.