Student Debt Protests (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

Why would one go into that level of debt for those degrees?

 

[RnR]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

The best solution is for people not to borrow more money than they can afford to repay.

 

[Gawain]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

Pretty valid analogy:

People who did X the right way get no help from Govt and people who did X the financially irresponsible way get help from Govt.

Please try to differentiate these.

 

[Brony]

The best solution is for people not to borrow more money than they can afford to repay.

well that's just crazy talk.

 

[RnR]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

Pretty valid analogy:

People who did X the right way get no help from Govt and people who did X the financially irresponsible way get help from Govt.

Please try to differentiate these.

OK, so let's say you're right. What's your point exactly? People won't be upset? It's all good?

ETA: I suppose I should clarify that I believe eventually the "silent majority" of people that work hard and pay their bills will turn on this matter. And when it does, that's going to be a problem for this country. In that regard, I suppose the mortgage crisis of '08 is fair to include in the discussion. Everyone takes their swing at a life in America based on the promise that good things can happen to those that follow the basic rules of society. When that stops being the case, people stop acting rationally. We continue to reward bad financial behavior, and eventually it is going to catch up with us one way or the other.

 

[Brony]

With both healthcare and education, there is a perception that it is something of great value that you can't put a price tag on. As long as the general public holds on to this ideology and continues to pay the inflated prices, those in charge of setting the prices will continue to raise them.

 

[Gawain]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

Pretty valid analogy:

People who did X the right way get no help from Govt and people who did X the financially irresponsible way get help from Govt.

Please try to differentiate these.

OK, so let's say you're right. What's your point exactly? People won't be upset? It's all good?

Nothing about the situation is good.

The kids demanding free college are somewhere between woefully naive and blindly stupid.

College debt is a problem. How to fix it with the minimum of disruption is going to have to be addressed at some point.

Some people will probably benefit and others won't. I agree such a solution isn't fair. The way TARP was rolled out wasn't fair either. There are a lot of programs that are only applicable to the struggling members of society.

Whenever I get frustrated that my sister-in-law gets her insurance paid by the government or is given money for food, I just ask myself if I'd be willing to switch places with her for the benefits she gets. The answer is always no. I'll take what I have over what she is given eight days a week. I try to remind myself of this when I get upset over welfare fraud or the woman buying groceries on a benefit card while she talks on an iphone 6.

I think a reasonable solution is to allow student loans to be discharged during a Chapter 7 bankruptcy (maybe reversion to a 5+ or 7+ year after loan origination is warranted) and to tie federal student loan rates to the Prime interest rate.

I also think that the outflow of money should be tightened up, either by only allowing govt money to be used by govt schools (fed-->State) or capping the amt borrowed and tying the cap to the inflation rate.

As for me, any change would likely only affect me slightly if at all. While I am 100K in debt, I'm too current on payments to gain any benefit.

 

[RnR]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

Pretty valid analogy:

People who did X the right way get no help from Govt and people who did X the financially irresponsible way get help from Govt.

Please try to differentiate these.

OK, so let's say you're right. What's your point exactly? People won't be upset? It's all good?

Nothing about the situation is good.

The kids demanding free college are somewhere between woefully naive and blindly stupid.

College debt is a problem. How to fix it with the minimum of disruption is going to have to be addressed at some point.

Some people will probably benefit and others won't. I agree such a solution isn't fair. The way TARP was rolled out wasn't fair either. There are a lot of programs that are only applicable to the struggling members of society.

Whenever I get frustrated that my sister-in-law gets her insurance paid by the government or is given money for food, I just ask myself if I'd be willing to switch places with her for the benefits she gets. The answer is always no. I'll take what I have over what she is given eight days a week. I try to remind myself of this when I get upset over welfare fraud or the woman buying groceries on a benefit card while she talks on an iphone 6.

I think a reasonable solution is to allow student loans to be discharged during a Chapter 7 bankruptcy (maybe reversion to a 5+ or 7+ year after loan origination is warranted) and to tie federal student loan rates to the Prime interest rate.

I also think that the outflow of money should be tightened up, either by only allowing govt money to be used by govt schools (fed-->State) or capping the amt borrowed and tying the cap to the inflation rate.

As for me, any change would likely only affect me slightly if at all. While I am 100K in debt, I'm too current on payments to gain any benefit.

I don't think we're far off. See my edit. I agree, this sucks.

 

[sbonomo]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

100% of what i was thinking as well. Can you imagine with this generation - the BK would be the financing mechanism for school. They just don't care.

Then why doesn't this happen with credit cards? If you look at the age ranges published by the Justice Dept, individuals account for just 5.4% of filings.Credit cards are thrown at college age kids and most don't take the "fresh start." (Which isn't, declaring BK sucks and has a myriad of impacts from the apartments you can get, to the jobs you can get)

We have figures from when student debt could be discharged. It was under 1% of all student loans.

Because even the shadiest credit card company won't loan a bad credit enough money to make filing for BK make sense on the basis of the principal debt on that credit card alone.

and no credit card company is giving an 18 100k limit -500-1000.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I will say this: If they start forgiving loans like they never happened, there's going to be some bad things go down.

People that worked their asses off to pay for school and then pay off what loans they had to take in the first year or two out of college rather than dumping money into a new car, house, etc. that they couldn't afford instead are likely to riot in the streets over this.

You don't have to graduate so deep in debt.

I vividly remember the rioting of all the folks that were current on their mortgages back in 08.

Please tell me more.

Apples to oranges. Tell me more?

Pretty valid analogy:

People who did X the right way get no help from Govt and people who did X the financially irresponsible way get help from Govt.

Please try to differentiate these.

OK, so let's say you're right. What's your point exactly? People won't be upset? It's all good?

Nothing about the situation is good.

The kids demanding free college are somewhere between woefully naive and blindly stupid.

College debt is a problem. How to fix it with the minimum of disruption is going to have to be addressed at some point.

Some people will probably benefit and others won't. I agree such a solution isn't fair. The way TARP was rolled out wasn't fair either. There are a lot of programs that are only applicable to the struggling members of society.

Whenever I get frustrated that my sister-in-law gets her insurance paid by the government or is given money for food, I just ask myself if I'd be willing to switch places with her for the benefits she gets. The answer is always no. I'll take what I have over what she is given eight days a week. I try to remind myself of this when I get upset over welfare fraud or the woman buying groceries on a benefit card while she talks on an iphone 6.

I think a reasonable solution is to allow student loans to be discharged during a Chapter 7 bankruptcy (maybe reversion to a 5+ or 7+ year after loan origination is warranted) and to tie federal student loan rates to the Prime interest rate.

I also think that the outflow of money should be tightened up, either by only allowing govt money to be used by govt schools (fed-->State) or capping the amt borrowed and tying the cap to the inflation rate.

As for me, any change would likely only affect me slightly if at all. While I am 100K in debt, I'm too current on payments to gain any benefit.

Tying student loans to the Prime Rate while also allowing bankruptcy discharge of those loans doesn't really work. That is a massive new subsidy.

 

[Gawain]

Tying student loans to the Prime Rate while also allowing bankruptcy discharge of those loans doesn't really work. That is a massive new subsidy.

Again, my question is why not? We do the same for mortgages.

Yes, the bank can foreclose on a mortgage, but there were numerous examples of people who were underwater to the tune of 4 years at a private university.

There was a cottage industry that popped up guiding folks through strategic default.

The reason why strategic default was available was because the mortgage could be discharged.

Lenders realized this and worked with those whose only option was strategic default.

Or, they didn't and are still sitting on these properties.

What is the variable that makes student loans debt so different to all other types?

It can't be amount, people discharged paper losses equal or greater to the student loan numbers.

It can't be age of debtor, we allow 18 year-olds BK protection from all other debts.

To make matters worse, these loans are through the fed, which got into the game because education is supposed to be a public good.

If there's loss, maybe the answer is the feds need to treat student loan debt as a public good and not peddle the debt off or get out of the game all together.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Tying student loans to the Prime Rate while also allowing bankruptcy discharge of those loans doesn't really work. That is a massive new subsidy.

Again, my question is why not? We do the same for mortgages.

Yes, the bank can foreclose on a mortgage, but there were numerous examples of people who were underwater to the tune of 4 years at a private university.

There was a cottage industry that popped up guiding folks through strategic default.

The reason why strategic default was available was because the mortgage could be discharged.

Lenders realized this and worked with those whose only option was strategic default.

Or, they didn't and are still sitting on these properties.

What is the variable that makes student loans debt so different to all other types?

It can't be amount, people discharged paper losses equal or greater to the student loan numbers.

It can't be age of debtor, we allow 18 year-olds BK protection from all other debts.

To make matters worse, these loans are through the fed, which got into the game because education is supposed to be a public good.

If there's loss, maybe the answer is the feds need to treat student loan debt as a public good and not peddle the debt off or get out of the game all together.

I am not really interested in providing more new subsidies to a class of people who have ####ed up enough to need help because they misused the previous subsidies.

Not to mention that lowering the lending rate on student debt will only make higher ed cost inflation worse.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

Almost nobody has $50K - $100+K of credit card debt in their early 20s. In the rare cases that it happens, I bet a BK filing follows most of the time.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I'm curious about this. Where did they attend school? You can just describe the general kind of school (e.g. public flagship, public regional, private SLAC, for-profit, whatever) if you don't want to get into specifics.

The reason why I ask is that universities that certify teachers and sports managers generally aren't the Michigans and Northwesterns ($$$) of the world. If these two grads went to Minnesota, for example, they must have borrowed for pretty much every dime of their education to run up a $100K tab.

Edit: Having re-read this, let me clarify that that isn't intended as a crack at Minnesota, which my son is very likely to attend in fall 2017. Just that it's the most expensive public in your state but still half that of the other schools I mentioned.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I'm curious about this. Where did they attend school? You can just describe the general kind of school (e.g. public flagship, public regional, private SLAC, for-profit, whatever) if you don't want to get into specifics.

The reason why I ask is that universities that certify teachers and sports managers generally aren't the Michigans and Northwesterns ($$$) of the world. If these two grads went to Minnesota, for example, they must have borrowed for pretty much every dime of their education to run up a $100K tab.

Edit: Having re-read this, let me clarify that that isn't intended as a crack at Minnesota, which my son is very likely to attend in fall 2017. Just that it's the most expensive public in your state but still half that of the other schools I mentioned.

The teacher either went to St Thomas or Johns and the other went to Northwestern Bible College (University of Northwestern, I guess it's called).Minnesota students have 5th most college debt in the country.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I'm curious about this. Where did they attend school? You can just describe the general kind of school (e.g. public flagship, public regional, private SLAC, for-profit, whatever) if you don't want to get into specifics.

The reason why I ask is that universities that certify teachers and sports managers generally aren't the Michigans and Northwesterns ($$$) of the world. If these two grads went to Minnesota, for example, they must have borrowed for pretty much every dime of their education to run up a $100K tab.

Edit: Having re-read this, let me clarify that that isn't intended as a crack at Minnesota, which my son is very likely to attend in fall 2017. Just that it's the most expensive public in your state but still half that of the other schools I mentioned.

The teacher either went to St Thomas or Johns and the other went to Northwestern Bible College.

A lot of really pedestrian private colleges, especially religious ones, are stupid expensive. I chose that wording for a reason.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

Saving accounts, homes, cars, assets, and other possessions that a recent college graduate doesn't have.

 

[Gawain]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I'm curious about this. Where did they attend school? You can just describe the general kind of school (e.g. public flagship, public regional, private SLAC, for-profit, whatever) if you don't want to get into specifics.

The reason why I ask is that universities that certify teachers and sports managers generally aren't the Michigans and Northwesterns ($$$) of the world. If these two grads went to Minnesota, for example, they must have borrowed for pretty much every dime of their education to run up a $100K tab.

Edit: Having re-read this, let me clarify that that isn't intended as a crack at Minnesota, which my son is very likely to attend in fall 2017. Just that it's the most expensive public in your state but still half that of the other schools I mentioned.

The teacher either went to St Thomas or Johns and the other went to Northwestern Bible College.

A lot of really pedestrian private colleges, especially religious ones, are stupid expensive. I chose that wording for a reason.

Here's a horse-trading question for you:

Would you take student loans eligible for BK discharge 7 years from origination and tied to Prime+.25 for federal aid only available to those who attend state schools?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I'm curious about this. Where did they attend school? You can just describe the general kind of school (e.g. public flagship, public regional, private SLAC, for-profit, whatever) if you don't want to get into specifics.

The reason why I ask is that universities that certify teachers and sports managers generally aren't the Michigans and Northwesterns ($$$) of the world. If these two grads went to Minnesota, for example, they must have borrowed for pretty much every dime of their education to run up a $100K tab.

Edit: Having re-read this, let me clarify that that isn't intended as a crack at Minnesota, which my son is very likely to attend in fall 2017. Just that it's the most expensive public in your state but still half that of the other schools I mentioned.

The teacher either went to St Thomas or Johns and the other went to Northwestern Bible College (University of Northwestern, I guess it's called).Minnesota students have 5th most college debt in the country.

Ouch. If you're going to a small private college and aren't getting a heavy discount (most students do, but obviously not these guys), those bills run up fast.

We're fortunate in that we can cover U of M no problem for our kids, thanks to reciprocity. There are less expensive alternatives, but our son really liked it when we visited, and my wife and I very strongly believe that he would benefit from living in a metropolitan environment given that we currently live in Mayberry, so we're willing to spend for that, within reason.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

Saving accounts, homes, cars, assets, and other possessions that a recent college graduate doesn't have.

Yeah, I should have added earlier that I'm also fine with a waiting period of 5 or 7 or 10 years before you can do this. I want to provide relief for serious hardship cases, not just set up a system for people to game.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think the U of MN is a terrific school - depending on the program chosen - that is on the upper end of affordability.

I think the private liberal arts schools colleges are bordering on stealing from people. A year at Carleton has a sticker price close to $60k annual.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think the U of MN is a terrific school - depending on the program chosen - that is on the upper end of affordability.

I think the private liberal arts schools colleges are bordering on stealing from people. A year at Carleton has a sticker price close to $60k annual.

Yeah, but I doubt that most students who go to Carleton pay that. (I'm not super-familiar with Carleton personally, but it's my go-to example of a super-expensive private school). I went to a school very similar to Carleton in Indiana, and the net price was only a little more than what Purdue or IU would have cost. Those sorts of schools set a really high sticker price and then discount deeply based on your academics, not just financial need.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm typiclly an Independent, but more and more I'm hating the left - Don't get me wrong, I hate the right as well, but who the #### do these entitled ####wads think they are?

1000's of students march across the country for free college

I mean really, #### off. Glad my kids will have a leg up on all these self entitled doucchebags.

A few hundred students rallied on the campus of the historically progressive University of California Berkeley, and posted placards on the outside of a class building showing their individual student debt loads, ranging from just several thousand dollars to more than $100,000.

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/13/us-usa-college-protests-idUSKCN0T116W20151113#iB2614VplCU3jkfU.99

Huge shocker here... Let me give you something for free, I'll call it advice; Go to a local junior college for 2 years, transfer into a state school, work while you do it, and you can have a four year degree with almost no debt when you graduate.

Oh, you want to go to Cal Berkley? Great, I want a $3.5M brownstone - I won't buy one because the mortgage will have me on suicide watch, so I'll look at something that fits my budget, you #######s should do the same.

:rantover: Good luck with life idiots. The more moron proof we make the world, the bigger the moron we create!

Berkeley is a state school.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Tying student loans to the Prime Rate while also allowing bankruptcy discharge of those loans doesn't really work. That is a massive new subsidy.

Again, my question is why not? We do the same for mortgages.

Yes, the bank can foreclose on a mortgage, but there were numerous examples of people who were underwater to the tune of 4 years at a private university.

There was a cottage industry that popped up guiding folks through strategic default.

The reason why strategic default was available was because the mortgage could be discharged.

Lenders realized this and worked with those whose only option was strategic default.

Or, they didn't and are still sitting on these properties.

And how did mortgage-backed securities perform when the housing bubble burst?

 

[Gawain]

Tying student loans to the Prime Rate while also allowing bankruptcy discharge of those loans doesn't really work. That is a massive new subsidy.

Again, my question is why not? We do the same for mortgages.

Yes, the bank can foreclose on a mortgage, but there were numerous examples of people who were underwater to the tune of 4 years at a private university.

There was a cottage industry that popped up guiding folks through strategic default.

The reason why strategic default was available was because the mortgage could be discharged.

Lenders realized this and worked with those whose only option was strategic default.

Or, they didn't and are still sitting on these properties.

And how did mortgage-backed securities perform when the housing bubble burst?

Not well, but I'm not sure the point you're trying to make unless you want to make mortgage debt immune from BK discharge.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think the U of MN is a terrific school - depending on the program chosen - that is on the upper end of affordability.

I think the private liberal arts schools colleges are bordering on stealing from people. A year at Carleton has a sticker price close to $60k annual.

Yeah, but I doubt that most students who go to Carleton pay that. (I'm not super-familiar with Carleton personally, but it's my go-to example of a super-expensive private school). I went to a school very similar to Carleton in Indiana, and the net price was only a little more than what Purdue or IU would have cost. Those sorts of schools set a really high sticker price and then discount deeply based on your academics, not just financial need.

That's the company line here anf while it's true that people don't pay full price it's not true that is competitive with the state schools.My daughter goes to a MN state school and pays about $10k less than what private Concordia offered her after discounts.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

Saving accounts, homes, cars, assets, and other possessions that a recent college graduate doesn't have.

Yeah, I should have added earlier that I'm also fine with a waiting period of 5 or 7 or 10 years before you can do this. I want to provide relief for serious hardship cases, not just set up a system for people to game.

This would make more sense.

 

[Johnny Rock]

Maybe if the government didn't give out loans for fake schools, ala online only, there would be more for real colleges.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think the U of MN is a terrific school - depending on the program chosen - that is on the upper end of affordability.

I think the private liberal arts schools colleges are bordering on stealing from people. A year at Carleton has a sticker price close to $60k annual.

Yeah, but I doubt that most students who go to Carleton pay that. (I'm not super-familiar with Carleton personally, but it's my go-to example of a super-expensive private school). I went to a school very similar to Carleton in Indiana, and the net price was only a little more than what Purdue or IU would have cost. Those sorts of schools set a really high sticker price and then discount deeply based on your academics, not just financial need.

That's the company line here anf while it's true that people don't pay full price it's not true that is competitive with the state schools.My daughter goes to a MN state school and pays about $10k less than what private Concordia offered her after discounts.

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm not that familiar with Minnesota's private colleges. I do know that Carleton is excellent, but I also wholeheartedly agree that it's not more-than-twice-as-good as U of M.

 

[cstu]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

 

[cstu]

Andy Dufresne, on 13 Nov 2015 - 1:54 PM, said:

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I still have close to $100k in student loans after getting my MBA - well worth the $500 a month I'll be paying for 30 years.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

Who is giving out the 0% loan ava what's the incentive to pay it back?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Andy Dufresne, on 13 Nov 2015 - 1:54 PM, said:

In the last month I've run into two recent grads with over $100k in debt - one is a teacher and the other has a sports management degree.

Pretty sure they're both financially screwed.

I still have close to $100k in student loans after getting my MBA - well worth the $500 a month I'll be paying for 30 years.

Note the difference between an MBA and a sports management degree.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

Who is giving out the 0% loan ava what's the incentive to pay it back?

 

[The Z Machine]

How much did they THINK it was going to cost to go to Berkeley?

Now excuse me while I go protest the high prices of Ferraris.

It's a state school, and I paid a little over $4k/year when I went there in 1998 - 2002.That's undergrad in-state though. Out-of-state and graduate schools are much pricier. Plus, the cost of living is VERY high in the bay area with rents in Oakland and Berkeley way above most other major metro areas in the country.

Finally, protest is a pastime at Cal. People always be rallying about something.

 

[sbonomo]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

no way on the zero, definitely on the real schools.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

Probably the single worst idea proffered in this whole thread.

It is a great way to make college costs expand even more quickly and further inflate the college debt bubble. Plus it is an enormous new entitlement to be borne by whom, exactly?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

If you make student loans dischargeable, it will make financial sense for many new grads to file immediately after graduation. Bankruptcy attorneys would have a field day.

This is my thought exactly. File at 22, by 29 you've got a fresh start and no debt.

What would prevent this?

What prevents people from doing this with credit card debt?

Saving accounts, homes, cars, assets, and other possessions that a recent college graduate doesn't have.

Yeah, I should have added earlier that I'm also fine with a waiting period of 5 or 7 or 10 years before you can do this. I want to provide relief for serious hardship cases, not just set up a system for people to game.

For what it's worth, there is an "undue hardship" exception to the nondischargeability rule under current law. It's pretty rare, but it does get approved when the test is met. Anecdotally, I'd say most frequently involving for-profit school debt.

 

[RnR]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

Wait, wait. You're proposing this and you have an MBA? Did you sleep through your ECON classes?

 

[Chadstroma]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

Probably the single worst idea proffered in this whole thread.

It is a great way to make college costs expand even more quickly and further inflate the college debt bubble. Plus it is an enormous new entitlement to be borne by whom, exactly?

Exactly.

Liberals seem to focus in on the cost of financing education and somehow skip the fact that the cost of education is the actual real problem. Nevermind that they never seem to grasp that the thing that has fueled the ridiculous increase in cost of education over the years is cheap financing given to anyone who wants it upon demand.

 

[Soonerman]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

Probably the single worst idea proffered in this whole thread.

It is a great way to make college costs expand even more quickly and further inflate the college debt bubble. Plus it is an enormous new entitlement to be borne by whom, exactly?

Exactly.

Liberals seem to focus in on the cost of financing education and somehow skip the fact that the cost of education is the actual real problem. Nevermind that they never seem to grasp that the thing that has fueled the ridiculous increase in cost of education over the years is cheap financing given to anyone who wants it upon demand.

Exactly. The best thing we could do to make college and health care more affordable is for the government to quit trying to make them more affordable.

 

[sports_fan]

Huge shocker here... Let me give you something for free, I'll call it advice; Go to a local junior college for 2 years, transfer into a state school, work while you do it, and you can have a four year degree with almost no debt when you graduate.

I did exactly that. My high school had a postsecondary program that I took part in as well. My parents also set up a college savings accounts for me of about 20k. I had over half of it left when I finished my four year degree.

 

[Courtjester]

I say make them able to be discharged as well. But then when the court grants the discharge, your degree is invalidated--seems pretty simple. If the whole argument is that "I didn't make as much as I thought I would when I graduated," then that is fair. You get a do over, loan is discharged, degree is gone. You can go back and start over.

I mean I come at this from two sides: my wife went to a private school, had good scholarships, but still ended up paying for her senior year. She went back to get her masters at a more affordable school and took some lesser student loans. She graduated 16 years ago and we still have a student loan payment. My wife was a special ed teacher in a low economic school and under some of the programs, she could have gotten her debt forgiven after 10 years, but because my wife took a certain type of loan, it couldn't be. It sucks, but we cut that $450.00 check every month and will be doing this for a long time. She took the money, she got the benefit of it and that enabled her to get the administrative job she has now. We owe the money. Plain and simple.

My daughter is 16 (I have written about her before), incredibly bright, #3 in a class of almost 600. 4.7 GPA--taking mostly AP/advanced course that will enable her to get enough college credits to qualify for almost 2 years of total college credit when she graduates HS. She is looking at schools. CU at Colorado Springs and CSU will basically give her enough grants and with scholarships, she will attend almost for free. CU is like 18K a year. She has her heart set on Colorado College--they will not honor as many of the credits and we are uncertain about the grant situation ( I have a meeting in January with them), but they require her to stay on campus (even though we live 15 minutes away). Total cost per year 68k. I am doing my best to steer her to CU because she will have little to no debt and a 4 year degree. Going her route will net her close to 6 figures in debt after two years.

She doesn't "have" to go to CC, she wants to. And I would guess a lot of the students that are complaining are finding themselves in the same situation. They "want" to go to a certain school and disregard the price tag when they could have gone to another school and paid less. No one made the protesters go to Berkley, they made a choice to go there.

My caveat is the people that were duped by the "for profit" schools that got a worthless degrees, I believe there should be some form of relief offered to them.

Now get off my lawn......

 

[eoMMan]

I say make them able to be discharged as well. But then when the court grants the discharge, your degree is invalidated--seems pretty simple. If the whole argument is that "I didn't make as much as I thought I would when I graduated," then that is fair. You get a do over, loan is discharged, degree is gone. You can go back and start over.

I mean I come at this from two sides: my wife went to a private school, had good scholarships, but still ended up paying for her senior year. She went back to get her masters at a more affordable school and took some lesser student loans. She graduated 16 years ago and we still have a student loan payment. My wife was a special ed teacher in a low economic school and under some of the programs, she could have gotten her debt forgiven after 10 years, but because my wife took a certain type of loan, it couldn't be. It sucks, but we cut that $450.00 check every month and will be doing this for a long time. She took the money, she got the benefit of it and that enabled her to get the administrative job she has now. We owe the money. Plain and simple.

My daughter is 16 (I have written about her before), incredibly bright, #3 in a class of almost 600. 4.7 GPA--taking mostly AP/advanced course that will enable her to get enough college credits to qualify for almost 2 years of total college credit when she graduates HS. She is looking at schools. CU at Colorado Springs and CSU will basically give her enough grants and with scholarships, she will attend almost for free. CU is like 18K a year. She has her heart set on Colorado College--they will not honor as many of the credits and we are uncertain about the grant situation ( I have a meeting in January with them), but they require her to stay on campus (even though we live 15 minutes away). Total cost per year 68k. I am doing my best to steer her to CU because she will have little to no debt and a 4 year degree. Going her route will net her close to 6 figures in debt after two years.

She doesn't "have" to go to CC, she wants to. And I would guess a lot of the students that are complaining are finding themselves in the same situation. They "want" to go to a certain school and disregard the price tag when they could have gone to another school and paid less. No one made the protesters go to Berkley, they made a choice to go there.

My caveat is the people that were duped by the "for profit" schools that got a worthless degrees, I believe there should be some form of relief offered to them.

Now get off my lawn......

1. 16 years out of school and your wife is still paying $450/month? Is it a crazy high interest rate or something? How much debt did she start out with?

2. Honestly, I wouldn't let my daughter go to a college that is 68k/year. That is just insane. Setting herself up for years and most likely decades of financial misery.

 

[NutterButter]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

- only give student loans to people going to real colleges

Anyone got a problem with either of these?

i'd make it a 0% government subsidized loan for certain degrees. get a major in something that's in demand and you'll have no problem paying off your loans.

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

One thing I havent seen mentioned (although I mostly scanned the 5 pages) is that a lot of this debt students these days are taking arent even for school. I graduated from University of Chicago with my MBA in 2011 and over $165k in debt. Classes should have only totaled about $110k, but they would give me more, so I took it since I like drinking, snowboarding trips and high rise apartments with city views. I was a moron. I knew what I was doing and figured "it will all work out eventually!" Lucky for me it did and I paid off my student loans in full earlier this year, but for most others it hasnt. There needs to be a better system that limits your borrowing to actual school costs. It sounds ridiculous, but we need to protect these students from themselves.

As for student loan forgiveness, I'm not sure where I stand on that. When I graduated with those loans I started off on income based repayment because I most certainly couldnt afford the $2500+ a month payments they wanted for the next 10 years. I just went on IBR and didnt complain because it was my choice to borrow. The sad thing is I dont think everyone has that self awareness and realizes its their choice. We need to help them make better choices by not making it so easy to get these large loans.

And people need to realize not everyone needs to go to college. My little brother got a 4 year degree and then decided he didnt like what he was doing. He then entered the trades as a teamster and is doing great. He wishes he would have went in the trades right out of high school like some of my friends. All my friends in the trade unions make plenty of money for themselves and their families and have no debt. 75%+ of students taking out loans shouldnt be and should be looking into other careers they can earn a fantastic living in.

 

[cstu]

Two things I would do:

- make student loans 0% interest

Probably the single worst idea proffered in this whole thread.

It is a great way to make college costs expand even more quickly and further inflate the college debt bubble. Plus it is an enormous new entitlement to be borne by whom, exactly?

The U.S. government, who stands to make a lot more money in taxes by having a more educated population.

Don't understand why it means college costs would go up because of it.

 

[cstu]

One thing I havent seen mentioned (although I mostly scanned the 5 pages) is that a lot of this debt students these days are taking arent even for school. I graduated from University of Chicago with my MBA in 2011 and over $165k in debt. Classes should have only totaled about $110k, but they would give me more, so I took it since I like drinking, snowboarding trips and high rise apartments with city views. I was a moron. I knew what I was doing and figured "it will all work out eventually!" Lucky for me it did and I paid off my student loans in full earlier this year, but for most others it hasnt. There needs to be a better system that limits your borrowing to actual school costs. It sounds ridiculous, but we need to protect these students from themselves.

As for student loan forgiveness, I'm not sure where I stand on that. When I graduated with those loans I started off on income based repayment because I most certainly couldnt afford the $2500+ a month payments they wanted for the next 10 years. I just went on IBR and didnt complain because it was my choice to borrow. The sad thing is I dont think everyone has that self awareness and realizes its their choice. We need to help them make better choices by not making it so easy to get these large loans.

And people need to realize not everyone needs to go to college. My little brother got a 4 year degree and then decided he didnt like what he was doing. He then entered the trades as a teamster and is doing great. He wishes he would have went in the trades right out of high school like some of my friends. All my friends in the trade unions make plenty of money for themselves and their families and have no debt. 75%+ of students taking out loans shouldnt be and should be looking into other careers they can earn a fantastic living in.

Who going to be in a position if they aren't able to physically do their trade job anymore - your little brother or your friends?