**Sunday Night Football - Texans at Chiefs**(-3.5, 41.5) 8:20 (2 Viewers)

[ignatiusjreilly]

You were right and I was wrong. He’s back for this drive

I’m happier just to have him for my playoffs than I’d ever be to be right or wrong.

He's starting to remind me of a young Matt Brieda (whom the podcaster Christopher Harris once dubbed "The Godfather of Troll"). I remember when he first emerged for the 49ers, in circumstances somewhat similar to Marks'. Every game he would go down, and you were sure that this one was going to be the season-ender, but then three plays later he was back on the field

 

[travdogg]

I've been harsh on Kelce and I know he still has game even though his abilities have diminished. Why wait until you're completely washed and useless and not go out when there's still something left in the tank like his brother did. I've watched much of KC all season and Kelce has made several critical mistakes we've rarely seen before. Several drops along with other easy catches he simply bungled into a defenders hands. Look beyond the stats and watch the film on him and you'll see what many others have pointed out including passes where he wasn't in an area Mahomes thought he would be. There's a mental drop off with him well beyond the physical aspect.

Dude has had a HOF type career and his contract expires, there's no need to extend him so just do the right thing and walk away.

I'm honestly confused by this sentiment, and I've seen it a lot. Nothing he does on the field is gonna make him not be a HOFer. Why shouldn't he stick around as long as he wants? On the flip side of that coin, one could easily disagree with the bolded, and say Jason Kelce made a mistake retiring when he did, he could have gotten another ring last year.

Travis Kelce has had some drops, but its worth noting he's had a better catch percentage than Ertz, Gadsden, or Kraft in 2025. His separation has bounced back this year, and his RAC is better than its been since 2021. Its really just been the drops. I'm not even a big Kelce fan or anything, its just really weird to me how much people want to shove guys out the door, just because they aren't at their peak. Its nothing new, its just weird. I remember people wanting the Cardinals to move on from Larry Fitzgerald in 2016, because he was blocking John Brown (remember that guy?) and more recently people thinking Derrick Henry was "washed" (a term that is used correctly at most 10% of the time) because he had a down year in Tennessee and was older.

Its just a weird thing to me, maybe its KC's success, maybe its annoyance with Taylor Swift (though I haven't even noticed her this year) or whatever, but Kelce is still a really good player, and I'd very much argue a top-5ish TE in 2025. He's also still on the of best 7 or 8 players on KC's roster.

 

[crushedspirit]

I respect that take but I'm one of those that doesn't like a team keeping someone around waiting until that players is completely useless due to father time and eventually is an outright liability . Someone like Brees who cost the team any shot in his last playoff game before both parties realised okay this has gone too far now. Like I stated earlier he still has some game in the tank, but has made some very costly errors this season and is obviously not on the same page as Mahomes anymore. He is not the same player mentally more so than physically.

Go out with your head held up high. I've always felt this way about ending a stellar career. Hell, the QB GOAT himself still had game in the tank but walked away before having to be told it's time to go. Barry walked away still at the top of his game. I respect that much more than retiring after becoming an obvious eyesore.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Everything about last night was fun, even though the game sucked. Apologies to my Chiefs’ fan friends - but it was fun to watch that offense look mediocre while on the way to being below .500

And yeah - shame on me for being a hater. Not my best look. Whatever. When Mahomes stops whining for more flags after every play, I’ll stop hating.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I've been harsh on Kelce and I know he still has game even though his abilities have diminished. Why wait until you're completely washed and useless and not go out when there's still something left in the tank like his brother did. I've watched much of KC all season and Kelce has made several critical mistakes we've rarely seen before. Several drops along with other easy catches he simply bungled into a defenders hands. Look beyond the stats and watch the film on him and you'll see what many others have pointed out including passes where he wasn't in an area Mahomes thought he would be. There's a mental drop off with him well beyond the physical aspect.

Dude has had a HOF type career and his contract expires, there's no need to extend him so just do the right thing and walk away.

I'm honestly confused by this sentiment, and I've seen it a lot. Nothing he does on the field is gonna make him not be a HOFer. Why shouldn't he stick around as long as he wants? On the flip side of that coin, one could easily disagree with the bolded, and say Jason Kelce made a mistake retiring when he did, he could have gotten another ring last year.

Travis Kelce has had some drops, but its worth noting he's had a better catch percentage than Ertz, Gadsden, or Kraft in 2025. His separation has bounced back this year, and his RAC is better than its been since 2021. Its really just been the drops. I'm not even a big Kelce fan or anything, its just really weird to me how much people want to shove guys out the door, just because they aren't at their peak. Its nothing new, its just weird. I remember people wanting the Cardinals to move on from Larry Fitzgerald in 2016, because he was blocking John Brown (remember that guy?) and more recently people thinking Derrick Henry was "washed" (a term that is used correctly at most 10% of the time) because he had a down year in Tennessee and was older.

Its just a weird thing to me, maybe its KC's success, maybe its annoyance with Taylor Swift (though I haven't even noticed her this year) or whatever, but Kelce is still a really good player, and I'd very much argue a top-5ish TE in 2025. He's also still on the of best 7 or 8 players on KC's roster.

Jason Kelce retired when he did because he said his body couldn’t take playing the center position anymore. Tight ends don’t take the same kind of beating.

 

[crushedspirit]

Kelce has gone from a dominant game changer to a productive TE that has more duds and costly errors than ever before.

That's what I see anyways.

 

[NewbieJr]

In three games since their bye, Kelce had 18 catches for 180 yards and two touchdowns. He's actually been more productive the second half of the season than he was for the first. Crazy how people are saying he needs to retire because of one bad game. Besides youngsters like Bowers and McBride, he's as productive as any tight end in the league. He's tied with Tyler Warren in receptions and has more yards and touchdowns. Yet I don't hear anyone saying Warren should hang them up. I understand his 'normal' has been the best tight end in the league, but I think slipping to third-best at 36 years-old is pretty impressive. I think he may retire after the season, but it's more because he has so much else going on that he can turn to and not because he's no longer an elite talent.

 

[urbanhack]

That was some pretty good football. Chiefs defense push during Q3 and houston's defense all game were at elite levels.

KC has overlooked Thornton too much he should be getting significantly more targets.

 

[ChiefD]

In three games since their bye, Kelce had 18 catches for 180 yards and two touchdowns. He's actually been more productive the second half of the season than he was for the first. Crazy how people are saying he needs to retire because of one bad game. Besides youngsters like Bowers and McBride, he's as productive as any tight end in the league. He's tied with Tyler Warren in receptions and has more yards and touchdowns. Yet I don't hear anyone saying Warren should hang them up. I understand his 'normal' has been the best tight end in the league, but I think slipping to third-best at 36 years-old is pretty impressive. I think he may retire after the season, but it's more because he has so much else going on that he can turn to and not because he's no longer an elite talent.

He needs to retire.

Kelce has dead eyes, man. You can just see it now.

 

[BoltNlava]

In three games since their bye, Kelce had 18 catches for 180 yards and two touchdowns. He's actually been more productive the second half of the season than he was for the first. Crazy how people are saying he needs to retire because of one bad game. Besides youngsters like Bowers and McBride, he's as productive as any tight end in the league. He's tied with Tyler Warren in receptions and has more yards and touchdowns. Yet I don't hear anyone saying Warren should hang them up. I understand his 'normal' has been the best tight end in the league, but I think slipping to third-best at 36 years-old is pretty impressive. I think he may retire after the season, but it's more because he has so much else going on that he can turn to and not because he's no longer an elite talent.

He needs to retire.

Kelce has dead eyes, man. You can just see it now.

I think he has eyes for thighs. Thick/athletic thighs change lives

 

[northern exposure]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

 

[GrantK]

I'm not sure if this has been covered, but how the @#$% did Rice stay in the game after getting lit up, sent backwards spinning landing like a rag doll? He immediatley grabbed his head, but popped up, where are these spotters who's sole job is to ensure player safety? He never left the game.

 

[Mongidig]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

The Texans had negative two yards in the second half at that point. They had no chance to score the way the chiefs d was playing. Also, they were going for it against a dominant Houston D. The Chiefs had all the momentum and blew it. This is one of the dumbest decisions I’ve seen and I don’t care if the analytics say go for it.

 

[northern exposure]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

The Texans had negative two yards in the second half at that point. They had no chance to score the way the chiefs d was playing. Also, they were going for it against a dominant Houston D. The Chiefs had all the momentum and blew it. This is one of the dumbest decisions I’ve seen and I don’t care if the analytics say go for it.

Once I can see. 4th and 1. But to go for it again at 4th and 4 after you failed the 1st time? Can't understand it.

 

[northern exposure]

I'm not sure if this has been covered, but how the @#$% did Rice stay in the game after getting lit up, sent backwards spinning landing like a rag doll? He immediatley grabbed his head, but popped up, where are these spotters who's sole job is to ensure player safety? He never left the game.

Was he trying to sell a helmet shot and draw a penalty flag? Given the way he went down,it was shocking to see him pop up so quick after no flag was thrown.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

In three games since their bye, Kelce had 18 catches for 180 yards and two touchdowns. He's actually been more productive the second half of the season than he was for the first. Crazy how people are saying he needs to retire because of one bad game. Besides youngsters like Bowers and McBride, he's as productive as any tight end in the league. He's tied with Tyler Warren in receptions and has more yards and touchdowns. Yet I don't hear anyone saying Warren should hang them up. I understand his 'normal' has been the best tight end in the league, but I think slipping to third-best at 36 years-old is pretty impressive. I think he may retire after the season, but it's more because he has so much else going on that he can turn to and not because he's no longer an elite talent.

He needs to retire.

Kelce has dead eyes, man. You can just see it now.

His life is more exciting off the field now than on the field. Good for him!

 

[fatness]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

 

[northern exposure]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Why desperation? The game was tied at 10-10 the first time they tried it and their D was dominating.

 

[fatness]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Why desperation? The game was tied at 10-10 the first time they tried it and their D was dominating.

If they were confident they would have punted.

 

[ChiefD]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

I saw it as pure stupidity.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

 

[Buckna]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

I saw it as pure stupidity.

Bills made similar mistakes against the Texans two weeks ago and cost them the game too. Could have kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th down and it would have made it a 2 pt game on the final drive when they were in FG range but instead they needed 5pts and Allen threw an INT to end the game.

Think some of these powerhouse teams have just gotten too overconfident the last few years and aren't playing smart football

 

[northern exposure]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Hubris or arrogance, it doesn't matter what you call it. Reid AND Mahomes have a ton of it. It worked for them until this season and now they’re paying the price.

 

[rockaction]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Should have they have run the ball behind their terrible offensive line?

I've been making the point on the board that maybe the issues are structural rather than Reid and Mahomes.

I do think Reid made a horrendous decision last night and that he panicked because of pressure due to the problem where he does not have the players because his (I think this is true) hand-picked or highly-recommended GM is actually not very good except for finding two or so decent offensive linemen in middle rounds of the draft (the 3rd comes to mind, but the rest of the league does that also). He also drafted a really good defensive back he traded up for in the first round two or three years ago, plus a DB or two in the later rounds in his time. And that's been about the extent of his successes (Bolton in the second- or third-round, too) and we're talking six years of drafting. Schoen of the Giants, who they were considering firing, had a 2024 draft that has been exponentially better than Veach's entire tenure.

The 2025 first-round rookie LT is really good, but needed a three weeks or a month to resolve family issues (?) and then got hurt. I mean, this is not an excuses league. He'll miss half the year.

 

[Mongidig]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

The Texans had negative two yards in the second half at that point. They had no chance to score the way the chiefs d was playing. Also, they were going for it against a dominant Houston D. The Chiefs had all the momentum and blew it. This is one of the dumbest decisions I’ve seen and I don’t care if the analytics say go for it.

Once I can see. 4th and 1. But to go for it again at 4th and 4 after you failed the 1st time? Can't understand it.

Dan Campbell would have punted on that 4th and one. Why wouldn’t they give it to Hunt who is money in these situations? They didn’t even have an RB in the game. The play call was trash. They had all the momentum and allowed the Texan D to flip the script.

 

[northern exposure]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Should have they have run the ball behind their terrible offensive line?

I've been making the point on the board that maybe the issues are structural rather than Reid and Mahomes.

I do think Reid made a horrendous decision last night and that he panicked because of pressure due to the problem where he does not have the players because his (I think this is true) hand-picked or highly-recommended GM is actually not very good except for finding two or so decent offensive linemen in middle rounds of the draft (the 3rd comes to mind, but the rest of the league does that also). He also drafted a really good defensive back he traded up for in the first round two or three years ago, plus a DB or two in the later rounds in his time. And that's been about the extent of his successes (Bolton in the second- or third-round, too) and we're talking six years of drafting. Schoen of the Giants, who they were considering firing, had a 2024 draft that has been exponentially better than Veach's entire tenure.

The 2025 first-round rookie LT is really good, but needed a three weeks or a month to resolve family issues (?) and then got hurt. I mean, this is not an excuses league. He'll miss half the year.

They could have attempted to run the ball or a quick pass to the RB. They had a better night on the ground than the Texans did.
People have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes (especially WRs) for years and yet they still have succeeded. It was hubris or arrogance from Reid to not realize things have changed this season.

 

[rockaction]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Should have they have run the ball behind their terrible offensive line?

I've been making the point on the board that maybe the issues are structural rather than Reid and Mahomes.

I do think Reid made a horrendous decision last night and that he panicked because of pressure due to the problem where he does not have the players because his (I think this is true) hand-picked or highly-recommended GM is actually not very good except for finding two or so decent offensive linemen in middle rounds of the draft (the 3rd comes to mind, but the rest of the league does that also). He also drafted a really good defensive back he traded up for in the first round two or three years ago, plus a DB or two in the later rounds in his time. And that's been about the extent of his successes (Bolton in the second- or third-round, too) and we're talking six years of drafting. Schoen of the Giants, who they were considering firing, had a 2024 draft that has been exponentially better than Veach's entire tenure.

The 2025 first-round rookie LT is really good, but needed a three weeks or a month to resolve family issues (?) and then got hurt. I mean, this is not an excuses league. He'll miss half the year.

They could have attempted to run the ball or a quick pass to the RB. They had a better night on the ground than the Texans did.
People have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes (especially WRs) for years and yet they still have succeeded. It was hubris or arrogance from Reid to not realize things have changed this season.

Yep. I criticized the decision when it happened. I was just curious what Ghost Rider would have done in Tampa when Damien Williams was the running back. Their roster’s crapitude goes back that far.

The question was really, “that’s odd-how do you plan on running and winning with a **** offensive line? “

As for Mahomes,

you’re not really stating a premise with a valid argument structure that contradicts what I wrote. It’s

A) people say that KC puts nothing around Mahomes
B) they win, therefore

(I’m inferring) Therefore they must have better guys around Mahomes than we think

That’s the informal fallacy of begging the question

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Should have they have run the ball behind their terrible offensive line?

I've been making the point on the board that maybe the issues are structural rather than Reid and Mahomes.

I do think Reid made a horrendous decision last night and that he panicked because of pressure due to the problem where he does not have the players because his (I think this is true) hand-picked or highly-recommended GM is actually not very good except for finding two or so decent offensive linemen in middle rounds of the draft (the 3rd comes to mind, but the rest of the league does that also). He also drafted a really good defensive back he traded up for in the first round two or three years ago, plus a DB or two in the later rounds in his time. And that's been about the extent of his successes (Bolton in the second- or third-round, too) and we're talking six years of drafting. Schoen of the Giants, who they were considering firing, had a 2024 draft that has been exponentially better than Veach's entire tenure.

The 2025 first-round rookie LT is really good, but needed a three weeks or a month to resolve family issues (?) and then got hurt. I mean, this is not an excuses league. He'll miss half the year.

They could have attempted to run the ball or a quick pass to the RB. They had a better night on the ground than the Texans did.
People have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes (especially WRs) for years and yet they still have succeeded. It was hubris or arrogance from Reid to not realize things have changed this season.

Yep. I criticized the decision when it happened. I was just curious what Ghost Rider would have done in Tampa when Damien Williams was the running back. Their roster’s crapitude goes back that far.

The question was really, “that’s odd-how do you plan on running and winning with a **** offensive line? “

As for Mahomes,

you’re not really stating a premise with a valid argument structure that contradicts what I wrote. It’s

A) people say that KC puts nothing around Mahomes
B) they win, therefore

(I’m inferring) Therefore they must have better guys around Mahomes than we think

That’s the informal fallacy of begging the question

I would infer it means Mahomes makes his teammates better.

 

[rockaction]

Pure arrogance by Reid and Mahomes to go for it TWICE on 4th down on your own 30-35 yard line in a tight game that your D is starting to dominate. They deserved to lose based on that alone.

I saw it more as desperation than arrogance.

Hubris is the word I would use, and that has always been Reid's achilles heel. Go back to that to KC/TB Super Bowl where the Chiefs were missing most of their o-line, yet Reid was still convinced that having Mahomes throw all day was the key to victory.

Should have they have run the ball behind their terrible offensive line?

I've been making the point on the board that maybe the issues are structural rather than Reid and Mahomes.

I do think Reid made a horrendous decision last night and that he panicked because of pressure due to the problem where he does not have the players because his (I think this is true) hand-picked or highly-recommended GM is actually not very good except for finding two or so decent offensive linemen in middle rounds of the draft (the 3rd comes to mind, but the rest of the league does that also). He also drafted a really good defensive back he traded up for in the first round two or three years ago, plus a DB or two in the later rounds in his time. And that's been about the extent of his successes (Bolton in the second- or third-round, too) and we're talking six years of drafting. Schoen of the Giants, who they were considering firing, had a 2024 draft that has been exponentially better than Veach's entire tenure.

The 2025 first-round rookie LT is really good, but needed a three weeks or a month to resolve family issues (?) and then got hurt. I mean, this is not an excuses league. He'll miss half the year.

They could have attempted to run the ball or a quick pass to the RB. They had a better night on the ground than the Texans did.
People have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes (especially WRs) for years and yet they still have succeeded. It was hubris or arrogance from Reid to not realize things have changed this season.

Yep. I criticized the decision when it happened. I was just curious what Ghost Rider would have done in Tampa when Damien Williams was the running back. Their roster’s crapitude goes back that far.

The question was really, “that’s odd-how do you plan on running and winning with a **** offensive line? “

As for Mahomes,

you’re not really stating a premise with a valid argument structure that contradicts what I wrote. It’s

A) people say that KC puts nothing around Mahomes
B) they win, therefore

(I’m inferring) Therefore they must have better guys around Mahomes than we think

That’s the informal fallacy of begging the question

I would infer it means Mahomes makes his teammates better.

Yeah. That’s sort of the problem with the structure of his argument, isn’t it? You could read it that way. I inferred what I would conclude from what *he* said.

You would interpret the language differently. Just the position he’s taking and the evidence he marshals for it leaves us only with the certitude that “people have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes for years” but never states an explicit conditional upon which this is concluded vis a vis the decision, “it was hubris or arrogance by Reid,” which was his conclusion following from the language.

Andy Reid acted from hubris or arrogance. Why?

Reason: Because people have been talking for years about the lack of talent around Mahomes but things have changed.

Doesn’t follow at all. It’s actually a non-sequitur, right?

1) Pat could have carried the team but now he can’t because the talent got even worse

2) Andy didn’t realize Pat carried the team and thought it was Andy’s doing and Andy had gotten worse at playcalling

3) Andy thought that the entire team was so good because he picked it even though people had talked about the lack of talent for for years and now Pat had also slipped

(1 and 3 are different than my original postulation. I think mine and yours are the best but my original confusion is laid bare in this post.

And answering Ghost Riders substantive question. Maybe this?

“Fold the simplicity of the running game in with the lack of running back talent, and we get a toothless rushing attack. Kansas City excels in short yardage with the bruising Kareem Hunt and a powerful interior of guards Trey Smithand Kingsley Suamataia and center Creed Humphrey. But the Chiefs fail to create big ground gains at a truly historic rate. The 2025 Chiefs have the lowest explosive rush rate on RB carries among all seasons since 2000 (2.6%). The 2024 Chiefs were third lowest (2.8%). Hunt and Isiah Pacheco(post-injury) break tackles for sure, but they don't run away from anyone.

This is not a new problem. The Chiefs have been lugging a shotgun-heavy, oversimplified, just-get-us-four-yards-on-third-and-3 running game to the Super Bowl for several seasons. Reid built a running game optimized for short-yardage execution and got exactly what he bargained for there. The Chiefs average 3.6 yards per run from the gun (30th) and 1.7 yards before contact per rush (29th).

This is not worthy of a defense's respect. The Chiefs cannot force safeties closer to the line of scrimmage or lure heavier defensive personnel onto the field. They run at a bare minimum to support the passing game and get the bare minimum from their running game as a result.” - ESPN, Ben Solak

 

[northern exposure]

Yeah. That’s sort of the problem with the structure of his argument, isn’t it? You could read it that way. I inferred what I would conclude from what *he* said.

You would interpret the language differently. Just the position he’s taking and the evidence he marshals for it leaves us only with the certitude that “people have been talking about the lack of talent around Mahomes for years” but never states an explicit conditional upon which this is concluded vis a vis the decision, “it was hubris or arrogance by Reid,” which was his conclusion following from the language.

Andy Reid acted from hubris or arrogance. Why?

Reason: Because people have been talking for years about the lack of talent around Mahomes but things have changed.

Doesn’t follow at all. It’s actually a non-sequitur, right?

1) Pat could have carried the team but now he can’t because the talent got even worse

2) Andy didn’t realize Pat carried the team and thought it was Andy’s doing and Andy had gotten worse at playcalling

3) Andy thought that the entire team was so good because he picked it even though people had talked about the lack of talent for for years and now Pat had also slipped

(1 and 3 are different than my original postulation. I think mine and yours are the best but my original confusion is laid bare in this post.

And answering Ghost Riders substantive question. Maybe this?

“Fold the simplicity of the running game in with the lack of running back talent, and we get a toothless rushing attack. Kansas City excels in short yardage with the bruising Kareem Hunt and a powerful interior of guards Trey Smithand Kingsley Suamataia and center Creed Humphrey. But the Chiefs fail to create big ground gains at a truly historic rate. The 2025 Chiefs have the lowest explosive rush rate on RB carries among all seasons since 2000 (2.6%). The 2024 Chiefs were third lowest (2.8%). Hunt and Isiah Pacheco(post-injury) break tackles for sure, but they don't run away from anyone.

This is not a new problem. The Chiefs have been lugging a shotgun-heavy, oversimplified, just-get-us-four-yards-on-third-and-3 running game to the Super Bowl for several seasons. Reid built a running game optimized for short-yardage execution and got exactly what he bargained for there. The Chiefs average 3.6 yards per run from the gun (30th) and 1.7 yards before contact per rush (29th).

This is not worthy of a defense's respect. The Chiefs cannot force safeties closer to the line of scrimmage or lure heavier defensive personnel onto the field. They run at a bare minimum to support the passing game and get the bare minimum from their running game as a result.” - ESPN, Ben Solak

I can expand on my initial comment. I said what I initially posted in the interest of brevity.
I suggest Reid and Mahomes acted out of arrogance (Ghost Rider used the term hubris) because they have made "risky" decisions like this in the past and succeeded. So, they continue to make them, but the results are different this season (see their 6-7 W-L record).Why are the results different? I can't say with 100% certainty because I'm not in the locker room, not on the Chiefs practice field,not in team meetings or the film room. Reid and Mahomes are in all of them and as experienced football men they must see the difference, even if they can't put their finger on the reason for it.
So, to keep making the same risky choices when you see your number of positive outcomes declining smacks of arrogance to me.
You brought up Brett Veach's lack of success in the draft and said the Chiefs' issues were structural. My counter to that was people have been saying for years that the team hasn't surrounded Mahomes with talent and yet they've won 3 Super Bowls in Veach's time as GM. So Reid, Mahomes, etc. have managed to rise above, play the cards they were dealt and succeeded in the past.
So,what's changed now?
Reid has looked at the weapons available to him,come up with a game plan and utilized them to achieve success.
The ingredients to the meal haven't changed, but the results surely have. So, doesn't the blame lie with the Chef (Reid)?

 

[rockaction]

I can expand on my initial comment. I said what I initially posted in the interest of brevity.

Thanks, NE. That wasn't an attack on you and I certainly can understand and even figured it was an issue of brevity or being conversational. No doubt I understand, and thanks for your response.

I do think Reid is at fault for the decision and that it was a poor one. I think it might not have been hubris motivating it but desperation. It's a theory, and I'll never know whether that's true or not. Right now, it looks like hubris and I have no qualms or problem with anybody for saying it. My only thing regarding that is that I try to not say I that I know what is motivating or internal with someone. It's something I learned when somebody was talking about criminal law and saying that in general the last thing a lawyer does in a courtroom is go to motive because all sorts of problems flow therefrom as far as proving it publicly. In the interest of brevity, I won't get into that, but I usually try and refrain from asserting something we might never know. That's how I think and feel, but it wasn't my main point of my comment, really.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.