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SUV shopping - looking for ideas where to start... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KarmaPolice
- Start date
belljr
Footballguy
We were going to replace our traverse with another traverse but we couldn't find one that wasn't bare Bones
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The 2016 Lexus RX350 I bought recently is surely the nicest car I've ever owned.
MTskibum
Footballguy
You can get most vehicles at MSRP if you order them. Vehicles are only over MSRP if you want to go into a dealership and buy them same day.
I would rank the 3 row unibody SUV's in the below order:
Highlander
Telluride
Subaru Ascent
Sorrento
Pilot - What we have
Explorer
Mazda CX-9
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Pathfinder
VW Atlas
Durango
Big gap to the below two
GM/Chevy - whatever they call their current crap SUV
Jeep Grand Cherokee
I’ve got the 2015 F-Sport model and I still love it. Have about 90k on it now and bought it used at 2 years and 19k miles. August is my final payment on my 5 year note so looking forward to no payments for a while.
It’s funny how the original owner paid for 1/3 of it and had it for 2 years and 19k and I paid 2/3 of it and had it for 5 years and 71k. I also get this weird benefit of keeping it and passing it on to one of my boys in a few years. Buying used wasn’t a bad idea back when they didn’t cost the same as new.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Curious where said Toyota dealer is.moleculo said:
Jobber
Footballguy
I’ve got a VW ID4 RWD in Minnesota (right next to ND). The range gets cut 30% or so in the real cold, a little less if you take it easy on the cabin heat and rely more on the heated seats. If you do highway driving, you’ll get a little less range - regardless of temperature. City driving with lots of stop signs and breaking, you barely use any battery at all.
The stock EV tires this particular car came with have bad treads for snow. So I picked up some Blizzaks for winter and the difference was night and day. It handles phenomenally in snow and ice with those on. Just my opinion, but I think a person buying an SUV that runs on gas is out of their damn mind. Certainly there are a lot of use cases where gas at this time may make sense (frequent long road trips, constantly hauling trailers). But for a mall crawler and commuter vehicle, yeah go electric.
I will note that I pay .048 per KWh - where a KWh gets me about 3 miles. Extrapolate that out and it’s damn near like filling a gas tank with a garden hose cost-wise. Of course there are costs up front to get into an EV (electrician, EVSE) but once you do that you’re set for life on that stuff.
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moleculo
Footballguy
I've done some math on this. I could buy an EV motorcycle for my commute for ~$6k. The weather here is generally nice enough that I could ride it most of the time, and my commute is like 1/2 the range on these things. I don't drive on the highway, and very little on busy surface streets. It's a totally doable proposition. My daily commute would cost like $0.18 in electricity, and I could easily charge over night on 120V (no electrician needed).
Assuming I get 19 mpg in my 4runner, gas was $5/gal, and I ride the EV motorcycle 75% of the time, the break even period is about 4 years.
Put differently, I don't think a plug-in EV makes financial sense if it costs $6k more than ICE.
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matttyl
Footballguy
They are more than anyone wants to spend, I get it. Had one quoted, over $80k. Wanted something that isn’t a truck that will tow a 5k pound camper - and that would actually fit in my garage. My options were limited.
The one thing I learned on this last page is that I have much difference tastes and priorities than some of you all when it comes to SUVs. We looked at a lot of SUVs and the Traverse was the right choice for us. The good news is we have lots of options in this space. I'm probably in the minority, but I'll just pretend I'm normal and the rest of you are the weirdos.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
My Maverick Hybrid has tires built for gas mileage, not weather. Couple storms in February in Iowa had me a bit nervous. GF has a Leaf, heater kills the battery by probably 40%. Same issue with tires. Lightning on order for hopefully early 203.
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
Thanks! I’m driving a 2010 Subaru Forrester and love it but thinking of upgrading some time soon. I want to go electric or hybrid but the winters up here are serious business. Add middling to poor road conditions and I’m a little nervous making the switch.
My Durango has been awesome, but much like the GM models, it is aged and in need of some updating.
Love the Kia's. but wife not a fan. Explorer my best option as they are available and I can get the X plan off MSRP.
MTskibum
Footballguy
Even recently there was a time that buying dodge made sense. Historically they were heavily discounted off of MSRP and finding a new one marked down 10-20k off MSRP was not a huge surprise. This made the cost of ownership lower than brands such as Toyota even though Dodge's tend to have a higher repair cost.
However, now that all vehicles are selling at MSRP and at some point the car market will correct they will have a much larger drop in residual value compared to other manufacturers. This is on top of that the fact that you will have a higher expected repair cost compared to many SUV's that I ranked higher.
I would strongly recommend against a Dodge in today's market, and I fairly recently was driving a 2019 RAM 1500. I am not biased against the manufacturer in the correct circumstances.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I’ve always viewed dodge as you’re getting a cool looking (subjective), overpowered car that is good for 80k miles.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
I was the 2nd reservation at my dealership, but I passed on the 2022 Lightning as I couldn’t get the Pro model. I’m first for 2023, so I’m cautiously optimistic. I have pretty good connections. Ordering reopens for the next MY in August. I also don’t want to take delivery until 2023 to optimize my taxes.
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Completely agree.MTskibum said:
We bought a new Dodge Ram 1500 in 2018/2019 for roughly $35k. It was much better priced than a comparable Silverado by about $10k IIRC. It has been nothing short of a money pit. Something blew out on the freeway the first year. The transmission died around year 4 and was a $13k repair factoring in a rental work truck. The Dodge dealership took over a month to actually complete the repair. This has been a nightmare truck purchase and I would highly advise against a Dodge Ram at nearly any cost.
Gopher State
Footballguy
I purchased more new cars then I should of over the past 40 years, I never paid over MSRP or even MSRP. The last vehicle that I purchased two years ago (truck) I paid 15k under sticker. I think two years from now we look back at paying MSRP as a mistake as production will exceed demand, and demand will be less for gas powered vehicles. That being said we need a three seat suv for hanging out with our grandchildren, but I don’t think I can pull the trigger at full sticker.
Agree. So glad my wife isn’t patient and we bought her Jeep at the end of 2020 even though we were just looking. I remember looking months ago to see how much more I would have paid and it was like $8k. We got the Jeep since my middle son would need a car later in 2021. Luckily won’t need another car for my youngest for a couple years. Hopefully, we time it perfectly!
MTskibum
Footballguy
I have been flipping cars recently and am about ready to purchase my 3rd car in 3 years and 4th in 5.
It does not matter that you are paying msrp because used cars are inflated so highly. I have actually made 2500 dollars on these car purchases.
I currently am driving a 2022 Tacoma purchased for msrp and I expect to only lose 500-1000 on it after putting 12,000 miles on it.
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Gopher State
Footballguy
Agreed used cars are worth more, maybe 5k more, but when you pay over sticker it’s gone. The point I am making will used car prices be evaluated two years from now, most likely not, and if you buy outright without trading you are definitely setting up a potential negative situation. I usually buy trucks, always been about 15k under sticker, buy in December. But now it’s sticker, so if the dealer offers me 4k over what I paid for my current truck,(recent offer) and no discount on the new one, I don’t think it is a good deal. So many unknowns, interest rates, possible recession, vehicles could drop quickly. I get it if you need a vehicle now you have to pull the trigger. In my humble opinion I going to try wait out the dealer for vehicles to drop.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
That's about a 1.5 mile drive for me. 50 years from now, when you might possibly need a new 4Runner, stop in and have a cold beer.
I think the 4Runner could be best vehicle ever made. A couple weeks ago, one was for sale around here on FB Marketplace that was a '96 with 400K miles on it. They were asking $6K. I have no doubt they got it.
jhib
Footballguy
Toyota salesperson we talked to a few days ago was describing the whole situation with limited allocations from the company vs the way it was before and said Toyota has told them to figure it will be like this at least through 2025.
Gopher State
Footballguy
I never owned a Toyota the closest was a Lexus which was not all that I thought it should be. Getting back on topic, my son wanted a new frontier the dealer had two in stock 5k over sticker, the dealer said they don’t know if we get any more this year. Fast forward 30 days the dealer has 25 frontiers in stock, my son called the salesman, he told my son we never know when these vehicles will come in. LOL. Still offered at 5k over the salesman told him we have to keep the lights on. Tesla is on pace for over a million vehicles this year and an increase of 40 to 50 percent next year in new vehicles. Lot of things can change in one year, recession etc. like the housing market the builder in my community was 18 months out on new homes, now he has three new homes available right now, the increase in interest rates caused people to cancel and give up their 10k deposit on new home orders.
Car dealers will say what they have to and want you to pay as much as they can get, their in business to make money. Again, buying a new vehicle now at sticker or over may not look so good two years from now. But if your flush in cash who cares.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
According to the video and comments they just break the steering column and the car can then be started with a USB charger
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Unless you live in Milwaukee, then don't get either of these unless you want the Kia Boys to steal it.
Is that you in the video - Tommy G?
gruecd
Footballguy
Yep, it's a design flaw. They break a window to gain entry, and then they're gone in less than 30 seconds.
gruecd
Footballguy
Or the DA should consider, ya know, actually prosecuting and punishing the kids who keep on stealing the cars...
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jhib
Footballguy
Yeah, I get that, and there's a good chance you're right. FWIW, talking to dealers lately seems a lot different then it did years ago for me. I get the feeling they don't have the pressure to say anything special to make the sales - if you don't buy what's available, someone else will tomorrow. The stories they tell feel more like venting of their frustration vs trying to get your business. Of course, maybe that's just part of their strategy.
Unfortunately, we're not in the situation where we're flush at all, but rather in need of a car. And while buying new now vs two years from now may not look too good, buying new now vs used now still can make a lot of sense seeing as used cars seem even more inflated in price at the moment.
MTskibum
Footballguy
I disagree with your premise, I think the supply chain had been disrupted to the point that it will take years before we start seeing new vehicles discounted.
The problem is that we had ~70% of the expected vehicle production of the last year, even when production catches up there will still be higher than normal demand because much of the public is holding out.
I think this is a great market for cash buyers that want to drive brand new cars. The low supply of new cars makes 1 year old vehicles sell for the same price as a new car.
Now I just have to wait for the 2023 model year vehicles to be released so I can do car shopping again.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
We may have lucked out as the youngest child has zero desire to drive. She said she’ll get her license so she has the ability to drive but would rather others drive her places.
belljr
Footballguy
Meh I'm less concerned on redesigns than if it's a new model all together......
It's based off the civic
Now if this was the 2016 hrv then I'd be more concerned
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MTskibum
Footballguy
The point is that I am trying to help by providing guidance on the new/used car market based on your previous responses to this thread.
If your previous responses do not indicate what you are looking at then I am sorry.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Found the exact Kia plug in hybrid suv that we want. But the dealer wants $6,500.00 over sticker. He is the only dealer with one and actually has three. But the price
gruecd
Footballguy
I was at a client of mine today (a Ford dealer). Sales guy said they're routinely getting $5K and sometimes up to $11-12K over sticker. Their lot is damn near empty. Some of these dudes are having career-best years despite selling half as many vehicles.Found the exact Kia plug in hybrid suv that we want. But the dealer wants $6,500.00 over sticker. He is the only dealer with one and actually has three. But the price
Nugget
Footballguy
I highly recommend ordering. Depending on the model, many dealers will sell near invoice.
Nugget
Footballguy
Ordered the Lightning this afternoon. Hoping to take delivery in January. I’m pretty excited.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Did you get the personal cash offer for deferring your 2022 order? I'm re-thinking the Lightning purchase now after the 2023 price increase and the exclusion from the tax rebate. It's about a 15k net price increase for me. On the fence now about doing a "binding agreement" with Rivian today to lock in a rebate for late 2023 delivery. But not sure I 100% buy their tax rebate logic and the "binding" is one-way.
Nugget
Footballguy
I did get the offer. So my sticker price is around $53, but I should get the $7000 certificate, plus the $7500 tax credit. I also am guessing around $2K for A-plan. Delivery might not be until late 2023 though. Not sure.
