T.O.'s crying again (1 Viewer)

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

J,If I decided to lie to protect murders, I would say the same thing about myself. Im not saying I would not make the same decision Ray-Ray made, I am saying I would need to live with the same stigma he is getting from me. Just because somepeople would make the same decision, doesnt make it right or forgivable.JAA

Ok...I can agree with that. But please understand these two things:1.Doing that(lying to protect close friends) is not nearly the equivalent of murder. Moreover, its not that terrible of a thing to do, and some could argue that loyalty is more important than justice. 2.I think that Ray did go through getting that 'stigma' from everyone initially, but after a while of repentance, isn't it time to let it go? We all make mistakes. Even if you think that he made a mistake, he has be apologetic and has done actions to right his wrongs.

 

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

It doesn't really matter what "some people" might call it....the government calls it a felony.

And he paid the price for committing it....All I"m saying is that he doesn't deserve the bad rap hes getting now because most of us would probably do the same thing and he has been very repentant.

 

[jwvdcw]

Oh, and to sorta paraphrase T.O:  "If you don't like people talking about your double murder case, don't get involved with double-murder!"

This is classic!!!! It's almost as if Ray Lewis apologizing for the incident and his part in it makes it okay, after all, it was only double-murder.Terrell Owens is the Dennis Rodman of the NFL. If you don't get that Terrell Owens just wants his name to be as big as it can be, and that is all he wants, then you are probably trying too hard to act naive. I know he cares about winning because no one cares about losers, and he knows that greatness often is associated with winning. Terrell is as smart as they come. He has a plan for himself, and he is sticking with it. He'll do whatever it takes to make it into the Hall of Fame, and be considered one of the best WRs ever. Shoot, he replaced the great Jerry Rice and you don't expect him to have some sort of "God-complex".One thing about what Terrell says, looking at what is quoted from him, you can almost see how a reporter must have "led" him to an answer. REPORTER: "Terrell, even Jerry Porter thinks that Ray Lewis's persona gets special treatment, even though he was involved in a double-murder case. How is that fair for you when all you do is do a little dance?"TERRELL: "Yeah, that is what I'm saying. I don't want to bring any of these things up about other people. That is their problems and I want to leave it at that, but I do think that in comparison to Ray Lewis being involved with a double-murder case and people still loving him, and myself just doing a dance and getting torched by the media, it just isn't right."HEADLINES: "TERRELL OWENS SAYS IMITATING RAY LEWIS' DANCE IS INCONSEQUENTIAL COMPARED TO RAY LEWIS BEING INVOLVED IN DOUBLE-MURDER."TERRELL: "You Press-guys must hate me!!!"REPORTER POOL: "What do you mean Terrell? We LOVE you!!!"In any case, all you guys complaining about Terrell Owens are sheep and he is your shepard whether you realize it or not. Of course you don't....that is why you are sheep. Watch the game for it entertainment purposes. If you had held your elected officials up to the same scrutiny, we might have better government. But you all don't, so shut up and watch the game....and just cheer for your team without commentary about someone's character because you aren't a psychologist, are you?

Once again....if you cannot see the difference between murder and lying to the cops to protect your best friends(and then a day later, going back and telling the truth) then you are a fool....sorry if thats harsh, but thats the way I see it.

 

[placeholder10391]

I love jwvdcw's sig. And I'm so glad T.O. did what he did. Genius.

 

[jwvdcw]

If anyone's a coward in this its Lewis! He had his chance to do something about it on the field but doesn't.

The Ravens offense and special teams gave the Eagles amazing field position all day long(I think their first 3 drives started on the Ravens side of the field!). Yet they only scored 15 points.Yes the Eagles won the game, but lets not act like the Eagle's offense got the better of the Raven's defense. The Eagles were the better TEAM. However, I think Ray Lewis did 'do something'- Him and his defense outplayed the Eagle's offense.

 

[jwvdcw]

I think Ray Lewis is a dink in all of this. He is the first person to get up after a play and start flapping his lips. Also, that idiotic dance he does when coming out of the runway before a game is laughable. So what does TO do, he imitates it it. Big deal. Maybe if Lewis was a bit more of a humble person himself I could see his side but he as big of an ### as their is in the game.

Ray Lewis plays with emotion...the reasoin his dance looks so 'idiotic' and 'laughable' is because its all just made up as it goes...hes just doing whatever gets him pumped up.TO, on the other hand, looks really cool when he dances(not idiotic like RL)...thats because he practices all these dances and celebrations...hes not doing it based on emotion.Moreover, look at RL when the Raven's offense is on the field and look at TO when the Eagle's defense is on the field....who do you think regularly cheers on his team more? Its RL...because he only cares about his team- thats why he celebrates.

Way to completely ignore every good point made in the post that you are responding to.

I'm sorry. I'll respond to 'every good point.'"I think Ray Lewis is a dink in all of this."Ummmm...ok."He is the first person to get up after a play and start flapping his lips."Yes, he talks trash and encourages his teamates. If you notice- hes also 'flapping his lips' when the offense is on the field or when his teamates make a good play. Hes not doing it to stand out or promote himself; He is doing it to help fire up his team. He plays with emotion and that comes through in how excited he is after making a play. However, he does not pre plan silly celebrations to make himself stand out among his teamates."Also, that idiotic dance he does when coming out of the runway before a game is laughable"I agree completely. It looks silly and stupid.....because he doesn't rehearse it in front of a mirror all week! He just does what naturally pumps him up and gets him ready to play football. He doesn't care about 'looking good.' He just wants to be excited and play football.'So what does TO do, he imitates it it. Big deal. "Its a big deal because TO obviously wasn't doing it out of pure emotion. TO had pre planned it. TO wanted attention....and now hes getting it. "Maybe if Lewis was a bit more of a humble person himself I could see his side but he as big of an ### as their is in the game. "You and I don't know Ray or TO, so neither of us can really say how humble or arrogant he is. But ask any of Ray's former teamates or current teamates what they think of him. I doubt the word 'arrogant' will come up. But now ask some of TO's current or former teamates and I bet you'll get some different responses.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

No I dont feel for saying anything because I didn't say anything absurb or inappropriate. If a player wants to celebrate and act like a jackass, so be it. He doesn't have a DUI or murder rap or beat his wife or do drugs or anything else wrong. He talks trash, he makes a fool of himself and celebrates. So what??? it doesn't hurt anyone.

Likewise, hating TO and wanting him to fall on his face isnt hurting anyone either. So what if people hate TO? So what if we chat about that on a forum or two? So what if there's a bunch of threads about why TO is a punk? It doesnt hurt anyone, right?So why do you feel the need to defend TO in the first place?

Regardless of what you think of him, he's not a distraction to the team nor is he malicious... anyone who can't see this is obviously jealous that he isn't on your team...E-A-G-L-E-S-Eagles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He hasnt been a distraction to the Eagles yet. He was a major distraction to the Niners. I think he will eventually wear on the Eagles. They arent going to go undefeated and if they accumulate a few losses in a row his me-first attitude will corrupt that team.

 

[jwvdcw]

Sheesh - FF ain't everything, folks.  Get a clue.

Sheesh - football ain't everything either. Whenever I see Ray-Ray I think back to how he looked in the courtroom in his orange jump-suit. Ray-Ray is as big of "self-promoter" as there is in the NFL. Turn on ESPN and that's all you ever see - Ray-Ray bein' a thug.I would worry more that young kids would want to emulate his behavior than I would worry about them emulating TO. At least TO's infractions only effect the game - Ray-Ray's have spilled over into society!Willie

Ray's friends killed somebody and he lied to cops to protect them....Do you really think a lot of kids actually thought to themselves: "Wow, Ray Lewis is really cool. If my friends ever get in trouble with the law, I'm definitely going to lie at first but then tell the truth the very next day just to be like Ray"?But a lot of kids probably emulate TO.Ray is actually a good role model imo. He isn't perfect, as evidenced by his mistakes. But he has admitted his mistakes and made ammends. Moreover, hes very active in the community and one of the best leaders in all of sports. I wouldn't mind at all if my future kids grow up to be similar to Ray Lewis...I'll never say the same about TO.And ask yourselves that very question: Would you rather your kids grow up to be great leaders and community figures but they are so loyal to friends that they'd even lie to get them out of trouble OR would you rather they grow up to be arrogant and obnoxious like TO? Honestly, I can't imagine many fathers would choose TO.

 

[jwvdcw]

I live in Philly, but am a Steeler fan so I automatically dislike Ray Lewis and TO from the word GO. I have to admit, I loved it when TO mocked Lewis for 2 reasons...1 - I always thought him imitating Joey Porter was the bottom of the barrelland 2 - I knew it would piss him off to no endWhat comes around goes around Ray-Ray...eat it.and the dude defending Lewis like he's some sorta saint (you have his freakin pic as your avatar), do us a favor and stop trying to rationalize his actions. You don't know him personally, you're a Baltimore Homer upset his icon has egg all over his face... and deservedly so...Just live with the fact he's a fantastic Linebacker and a ##### human being...

1.You're completely right that if Ray mocked somebody else, then what goes around comes around. I have no problem with TO's dance.2.There is nothing wrong with Ray as a human being. I've asked this a myriad of times but I'll say it again: Can you name one current or former teamate, coach, friend, family member, or anyone thats actually close to him that has anything bad to say about Ray Lewis? You're right, I don't know him personally....but neither do you! So all we have to go off of is what others say about him.

 

[cstu]

Watching TO handle himself this year, I think he's:A) Hardly a master of public decorumB) Supremely self motivatingC) Able to deflect attention/criticism from the rest of the teamD) Truthful, to a faultI don't think the comments re: Ray Lewis were necessary by any means, but I agree with others who have mentioned that he really didn't say anything that isn't 100% true. We look the other way when players beat their wives (oh, they are doing anger management classes...they're "all better"); or when someone like Leonard Little gets a DUI after swearing he would never drink again because he actually killed someone in a drunk driving accident a few years ago; but somehow players like TO and Chad Johnson are labeled as malcontents and indicative of "everything that's wrong with the game today."It's just crazy. I would MUCH rather have my team's best player be a loudmouth on the field (who backs it up I might add) and a model citizen off the field than someone who is morally bankrupt but because he dominates on Sunday, he's painted as a great man.

Jason brings up a good point. With the amount of attention TO brings on himself, very little else gets discussed about the Eagles. The amazing thing is that the Eagles are 7-0 and aren't getting the "72 Dolphins" pressure yet and I think a lot of that has to do with the TO distraction. The team just seems to go out there and win games and nobody seems to notice because TO is doing dances, tearing down signs and saying outlandish things about other players. I can just see the Eagles going 16-0 but the front page story being about something TO did after a TD.

 

[P Boy]

If you need T.O. dancing like a sissy to make the NFL "fun and interesting", you're watching the wrong sport.

This may be the truest statement in this whole thread.

Hmmm...While we're here, was Lewis' dance a sissy dance?

Yes.Why are people under the misguided notion that I'm propping up Lewis while raking Owens? I specifically stated that I am no fan of Lewis. His behavior on the field is almost as bad as Owens (not to mention his idiotic involvement of his posse's murders) - though he doesn't go whining to the press periodically about how badly everyone treats him for no justifiable reason.

 

[jwvdcw]

TO is fast becoming the NFL's equivalent of the NBA's Kobe Bryant.  An absolutely amazing, once in a lifetime talent who the other players in the league have no respect for off the field.

You have to be kidding me! Kobe was accused of rape! You cannot put those players in the same zipcode.JAA

Being accused of something means nothing! Why do we continue to fault people who were acquitted of things(OJ aside because hes obviously an exception)?

I've been reading your posts in this thread and I've come to some conclusions.They way you are defending Ray Lewis makes me believe that you are actually Ray (who else could know these "insights" you provide) or his mother (because nobody else so blindly defends).Since when did every perp who is accused get convicted? Especially the connected and wealthy in our society. I don't know all of the facts Ray's case but I'll bet some nobody would be sitting in jail if they had been accused of what Ray was accused of. The lesser charge was all the prosecution could make stick. That doesn't mean he didn't do it or had nothing to do with it. Get real.Our society is funny. We want a loud mouth like TO to fall on his face. I think it just burns people up to no end that he continues to back it up. His constant refusal to "back down" or adjust his behavior has people incensed. Meanwhile others like Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Leonard Little, etc.... do their worst but keep a more "appropriate" demeanor in the public eye and they are forgiven? It makes no sense.Anybody that wastes time or TO while ZERO outcry is raised about somebody who was convicted of vehicular homocide and who continues to drive and drink and get DUI's and who is allowed to continue to make bank is just absurd and a crying shame.

LOL...no I just feel strongly about things. People have accused me in the past of 'being' an NFL player(someone recently said that I was Artose Pinner).You're completely right that its easy to get off when you're rich. Some cases are obviously wrong(OJ) and some are not really known(Tyson). However, it was completely clear in this case that Ray did not kill those men. His defense was so strong that they didn't go to trial at all. Go search for some articles about the case...it really was obvious that he didn't do it(just as obvious as it was that OJ did do it).

 

[jwvdcw]

Well, it's pretty much been said that TO isn't the greatest guy in the world, but I do agree with him on this issue. He is branded as a "bad" seed, some of it his own doing, and meanwhile Lewis is embraced by the NFL and he does as much trash talking and hot dogging as TO. It is a double standard IMO.

I agree with you here that people in the NFL don't like TO and they do like Ray. Do you think that might have something to do with how nice of a person they are? If Ray is well liked by all his teamates and management and guys in the NFL offices because hes a great teamate and good guy, then they are going to try to make him seem like a good guy. TO on the other hand has offended countless teamates, coaches, coordinators, and NFL officials. They just don't like him and it shows in how they promote him as the villian.

 

[jwvdcw]

TO has never learned anything from his criticism. You all keep bringing up Ray's murder case...but he has learned from that and its in the past. Ray Lewis no longer has any problems with that and he has more than made ammends for his actions. TO continues to do stupid stuff, which is why he(and not RL) is the target of the media.

i 100 percent agree with you on ray lewis. he lived it and he learned from it. i respect him 100%. he is the best linebacker in the NFL today and maybe ever.

but look at it from TO's standpoint. you are saying he hasn't learned from the criticism he has received? basically the criticism for TO is STOP HAVING FUN. he goes out there and has fun with the GAME. remember that, it is a GAME. the controversy doesn't start until someone brings up THEIR problem with his TD celebrations. then he does what anyone would do, defend his actions. he may do it in the wrong way sometimes, but dont pawn it off as its always TO's fault. thats a bit unjust.

if ya dont like it, fine dont like it, you have every right not to, but its not going to stop him. The guy is out there producing well beyond expectations and having fun with the game... being an eagles homer, i love it.

oh ya, and those who say its all about TO... i watch every eagles game on the ticket. TO is out there on the sidelines cheering the defense on. maybe not every single play, but if the defense is on a long series, he is up on his feet rooting them on. He may not have had any team unity on the niners, but he does have it with the eagles and he knows it.

Very good post.

You're right. And I really don't have a problem with TO's dances at all. I do have a problem with how he treats some current/former teamates, though. And I will always defend Ray Lewis.

So Ray Lewis mocking Jerry Porter's dance (pre-planned I might add) and mocking him sitting out after he was shot last season is ok but TO mocking Ray Lewis's dance is wrong. I get it now.

I honestly don't recall that, but if thats the case, then yes Ray Lewis went to far.

Although let me once again make it clear that I don't have a problem with TO's dance(so I don't really have a huge problem with Ray's mocking either).

 

[P Boy]

Ray is actually a good role model imo.And ask yourselves that very question: Would you rather your kids grow up to be great leaders and community figures but they are so loyal to friends that they'd even lie to get them out of trouble OR would you rather they grow up to be arrogant and obnoxious like TO? Honestly, I can't imagine many fathers would choose TO.

Well, actually, I'd rather not have my kids running with a crowd that thinks nothing of shivving a couple of people who happened to disagree with them, then partying it up while those knived lie bleeding to death.Stop making Lewis sound so noble about lying to protect his posse. What he did was aid & abet murderers. There is nothing you can say that can paint that picture any other way.

 

[jwvdcw]

who would you rather have considering all other things equal...A player who is involved in a murder case trialorA player who talks too much and stirs it up with his dances and trash talk within the NFL

Which one is going to take my team to the Super Bowl faster???LoL... who cares what they do and say? It don't matter! Like the great Lombardi said once, "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."I am a Philly homer for sure, but I would say this for any player-- TO is GREAT and can do whatever the hell he wants because he helps his team win.E-A-G-L-E-S-Eagles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, I totally agree that I'd love to have either on my team. But you can't tell me that you'd rather have an ####### on your team than a good guy. And if you aren't a fan of the team,then you're more apt to hate them if they have a lot of jerks.

 

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?Law breaker > ###?You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

 

[riverrat]

I have to agree that the hotdogging TO does is not criminal. However, as to the hotdog antics of these two: I don't like it. It detracts from the game. Just like an NBA player hitting a simple jump shot and then acting like he made a game winner. I don't want to see the NFL fall to the level of the NBA or WWF.

 

[jwvdcw]

Regardless of what you think of him, he's not a distraction to the team nor is he malicious... anyone who can't see this is obviously jealous that he isn't on your team...E-A-G-L-E-S-Eagles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you realize that he is not a distraction as long as the Eagles are winning. Otherwise, I guarantee you that Owens WOULD BE a distraction.

Exactly..Ask some of his old SF temates or coaches if he was a hinderance to their team.

 

[jwvdcw]

Ray is actually a good role model imo.And ask yourselves that very question: Would you rather your kids grow up to be great leaders and community figures but they are so loyal to friends that they'd even lie to get them out of trouble OR would you rather they grow up to be arrogant and obnoxious like TO? Honestly, I can't imagine many fathers would choose TO.

Well, actually, I'd rather not have my kids running with a crowd that thinks nothing of shivving a couple of people who happened to disagree with them, then partying it up while those knived lie bleeding to death.Stop making Lewis sound so noble about lying to protect his posse. What he did was aid & abet murderers. There is nothing you can say that can paint that picture any other way.

He had a rough childhood. He had friends from his youth that had been with him all along- he wasn't going to abondon them because he became rich. You can't hold his friends actions against him.

 

[jwvdcw]

Look, heres the bottom line:TO is a great player. Ray is a great player.I don't like TO ON THE FIELD because he doesn't play for my team(and I wish he did). I like Ray ON THE FIELD because he does play for one of my teams.From what I know of them, I don't like TO OFF THE FIELD because several of his former teamates have nothing but bad things to say about him. I like Ray OFF THE FIELD because everyone that knows him well says nothing but good things about him.As for morality, I don't think TO is doing anything morally wrong but dancing or celebrating, and I appluad the fact that hes never been in any legal trouble. With Ray, I think he made one mistake and then quickly righted it the very next day. He then went on to make further ammends by serving his penalty and volunteering to talk to NFL rookies so that they don't make the same mistakes. I obviously don't know either man, but I don't find anything morally wrong with either of them- Yes, they have made mistakes, but they seem like good guys.Can everyone at least agree with me on that?

 

[P Boy]

He had a rough childhood. He had friends from his youth that had been with him all along- he wasn't going to abondon them because he became rich. You can't hold his friends actions against him.

That, my friend, is a smoke screen full of B.S. You can't paint someone as a truly admirable person when the fact is that rather than helping 2 people who his buddies had run through with knives, he instead aided their escape and proceeded to party afterward. A real hero would have at a minimum abondoned his buddies to their own escape & tried to apply first aid to those who lie mortally wounded.To think otherwise either shows that you are subject to tunnel visioned hero worship or your value are so skewed that you honestly don't know any better. I'm not holding his buddies actions against him, I'm holding Lewis' own actions against him.Since we are talking about kids, how exactly would you feel if one of your kids were the victim of Lewis' buddies, and then you ran into someone who thought that Lewis was above reproach and a saint despite being involved as he was in your kid's death?

 

[ravnzfan]

After game Ray calls TO a coward.

Ray-ray's problem is that he is loyal, to a fault...not smart, loyalThe whole Atlanta situation stemmed from his backing his friends, no matter what...smart?...no...loyal?....yesNo question he screwed the pooch w/this---he'll tell you that himselfThe comment Ray made about TO---"he's a coward"---is in reference to TO's book, and calling Ray's GM Ozzie Newsome "a racist"--what did you guys think he was referring to?While I'm not a fan of the gig he dances to open the game, I am a fan of the friend Ray is to those around him...again, not the smartest guy, but loyal like no one I know--we could do worse than call a guy like this our friend......flame away

 

[jwvdcw]

He had a rough childhood. He had friends from his youth that had been with him all along- he wasn't going to abondon them because he became rich. You can't hold his friends actions against him.

That, my friend, is a smoke screen full of B.S. You can't paint someone as a truly admirable person when the fact is that rather than helping 2 people who his buddies had run through with knives, he instead aided their escape and proceeded to party afterward. A real hero would have at a minimum abondoned his buddies to their own escape & tried to apply first aid to those who lie mortally wounded.To think otherwise either shows that you are subject to tunnel visioned hero worship or your value are so skewed that you honestly don't know any better. I'm not holding his buddies actions against him, I'm holding Lewis' own actions against him.Since we are talking about kids, how exactly would you feel if one of your kids were the victim of Lewis' buddies, and then you ran into someone who thought that Lewis was above reproach and a saint despite being involved as he was in your kid's death?

How old are you? I'm curious because you sound like youre an older guy.Look, I'm a Christian and I generally consider myself to be a moral person. But say I'm out at a bar, and I look over and see my friends in a fight with some others. I'm up and in there defending my friends in an instant. Now lets say that as I'm running over there to help out, my buddy pulls out a knife and stabs them. I'm not going to suddenly care about these guys that were trying to fight my friends. I'm going to help my friends get out of there ASAP. Sure I'd be shocked and disappointed in my friends' actions, but I'd still stand by him and support him. Its loyalty. It exists among friends and family.

 

[jwvdcw]

After game Ray calls TO a coward.

Ray-ray's problem is that he is loyal, to a fault...not smart, loyalThe whole Atlanta situation stemmed from his backing his friends, no matter what...smart?...no...loyal?....yesNo question he screwed the pooch w/this---he'll tell you that himselfThe comment Ray made about TO---"he's a coward"---is in reference to TO's book, and calling Ray's GM Ozzie Newsome "a racist"--what did you guys think he was referring to?While I'm not a fan of the gig he dances to open the game, I am a fan of the friend Ray is to those around him...again, not the smartest guy, but loyal like no one I know--we could do worse than call a guy like this our friend......flame away

 

[JohnnyTitan]

Once again....if you cannot see the difference between murder and lying to the cops to protect your best friends(and then a day later, going back and telling the truth) then you are a fool....sorry if thats harsh, but thats the way I see it.

OK. So Ray Lewis is not a murderer. He's just best friends with murderers. Still worse than shaking pom-poms if you ask me.Also, we've really turned this into a T.O. vs Ray Lewis thread. The main point many posters are trying to get across is that T.O. is not a societal evil. He is not a criminal, acused or convicted. It doesn't matter if Ray is innocent or guilty, there are plenty of thugs in the NFL (and NBA) and in general they should be the focal point of fans disgust....not a football signing WR.

 

[jwvdcw]

Once again....if you cannot see the difference between murder and lying to the cops to protect your best friends(and then a day later, going back and telling the truth) then you are a fool....sorry if thats harsh, but thats the way I see it.

OK. So Ray Lewis is not a murderer. He's just best friends with murderers. Still worse than shaking pom-poms if you ask me.Also, we've really turned this into a T.O. vs Ray Lewis thread. The main point many posters are trying to get across is that T.O. is not a societal evil. He is not a criminal, acused or convicted. It doesn't matter if Ray is innocent or guilty, there are plenty of thugs in the NFL (and NBA) and in general they should be the focal point of fans disgust....not a football signing WR.

I see nothing wrong with being friends with people who go on to do bad things. Jesus was 'friends' with the prostitues and tax collectors(the worst kind of people in those days). Ray grew up with these people- When he was a kid and becomming friends with them, was he supposed to know that they would grow up to be murderers??"T.O. is not a societal evil. He is not a criminal, acused or convicted. It doesn't matter if Ray is innocent or guilty, there are plenty of thugs in the NFL (and NBA) and in general they should be the focal point of fans disgust....not a football signing WR."I agree completely. TO is not a bad guy when it comes to morals. However, he is a jerk that many former teamates have bad things to say about. Personally, I don't like his arrogance. The thing is this: ARROGANCE, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE INCLUDING MORAL ACTIONS, IS WHAT CAUSES FANS TO DISLIKE CERTAIN ATHLETES IMO.

 

[JohnnyTitan]

The thing is this: ARROGANCE, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE INCLUDING MORAL ACTIONS, IS WHAT CAUSES FANS TO DISLIKE CERTAIN ATHLETES IMO.

Surely Keyshawn has to be the least liked athlete in the world then.10x more arrogant than anyone else in the league, and unlike T.O. can not back it up.(Bad week to make this arguement, I know. But seriously, when was the last time this guy was even top-15 at his position?)

 

[blue&silver]

This was the greatest touchdown dance I have ever seen. It did exactly what TO wanted it to do, it got the Ravens off their game. Beautiful.

 

[jwvdcw]

Oh and btw........Many here have said Ray Lewis committed a 'felony.'Ray Lewis was charged with a misdemeanor- obstruction of justice.A misdemeanor!

 

[jwvdcw]

The thing is this: ARROGANCE, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE INCLUDING MORAL ACTIONS, IS WHAT CAUSES FANS TO DISLIKE CERTAIN ATHLETES IMO.

Surely Keyshawn has to be the least liked athlete in the world then.10x more arrogant than anyone else in the league, and unlike T.O. can not back it up.(Bad week to make this arguement, I know. But seriously, when was the last time this guy was even top-15 at his position?)

Yes, Keyshawn is pretty hated.

 

[jwvdcw]

This was the greatest touchdown dance I have ever seen. It did exactly what TO wanted it to do, it got the Ravens off their game. Beautiful.

It got them off their game? Their terrible offense which hadn't moved the ball all game scored a touchdown on the very next drive. Then they forced the Eagles to go 3 and out. Then they moved the ball about 30-40 yards before turning the ball over on downs to end the game.Score before the dance: Eagles 15, Ravens 3Score after the dance: Eagles 0, Ravens 7So how exactly did it get 'the Ravens off their game'?

 

[ko-jack]

this is an apples to oranges comparison. what lewis does OFF the field has no bearing on how the NFL receives him. truth is, lewis is a consumate professional, a great leader, and a great football player ON the field. OFF the field he was convicted of an obstruction charge, fulfilled his sentence, thus rehabiliting him.TO on the other hand is un-likeable in every sense. when his team loses, he crys like a baby, throws temper tantrums on the sidelines and is a distraction. when he wins, he is a flamboyant, cocky , #####. he rips down signs, dances with pom poms, authograpghs footballs and is a distraction. bottom line, TO wants all the attention, until he gets the attention, then he cant understand why people dont let things go

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

Little kills a woman while driving drunk, then gets busted for DUI while on probation.Pittman smashes his Hummer into his ex-wife's car with their young child inside while on probation for domestic abuse.R. Lewis conspires to keep murderers away from the police. Friends or no friends, it's morally bankrupt.J. Lewis pleads guilty to federal drug trafficking charges.T.O. does Ray-Ray's dance.Hmmm, where's the problem here?

 

[glock]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

 

[glock]

If you need T.O. dancing like a sissy to make the NFL "fun and interesting", you're watching the wrong sport.

This may be the truest statement in this whole thread.

Hmmm...While we're here, was Lewis' dance a sissy dance?

Point?

Just curious as to wether or not he thought Ray-Ray's version was a sissy dance as well. I thought that was obvious, no?

 

[The Commish]

He had a rough childhood. He had friends from his youth that had been with him all along- he wasn't going to abondon them because he became rich. You can't hold his friends actions against him.

That, my friend, is a smoke screen full of B.S. You can't paint someone as a truly admirable person when the fact is that rather than helping 2 people who his buddies had run through with knives, he instead aided their escape and proceeded to party afterward. A real hero would have at a minimum abondoned his buddies to their own escape & tried to apply first aid to those who lie mortally wounded.To think otherwise either shows that you are subject to tunnel visioned hero worship or your value are so skewed that you honestly don't know any better. I'm not holding his buddies actions against him, I'm holding Lewis' own actions against him.Since we are talking about kids, how exactly would you feel if one of your kids were the victim of Lewis' buddies, and then you ran into someone who thought that Lewis was above reproach and a saint despite being involved as he was in your kid's death?

How old are you? I'm curious because you sound like youre an older guy.Look, I'm a Christian and I generally consider myself to be a moral person. But say I'm out at a bar, and I look over and see my friends in a fight with some others. I'm up and in there defending my friends in an instant. Now lets say that as I'm running over there to help out, my buddy pulls out a knife and stabs them. I'm not going to suddenly care about these guys that were trying to fight my friends. I'm going to help my friends get out of there ASAP. Sure I'd be shocked and disappointed in my friends' actions, but I'd still stand by him and support him. Its loyalty. It exists among friends and family.

Then you know a sin is a sin is a sin...stop trying to say one is lesser than another. I do admire your tenacity in fighting for your boy, but I can't help but feel sorry for you. I mean...you have been in here all day defending Ray Lewis. Do you think he cares?? Why do you care so much?? Is it because you have to have everyone agree with you?? I am just curious...trying to understand where you are coming from and why such a STRONG feeling on the subject..

 

[glock]

Sheesh - FF ain't everything, folks.  Get a clue.

Sheesh - football ain't everything either. Whenever I see Ray-Ray I think back to how he looked in the courtroom in his orange jump-suit. Ray-Ray is as big of "self-promoter" as there is in the NFL. Turn on ESPN and that's all you ever see - Ray-Ray bein' a thug.

I would worry more that young kids would want to emulate his behavior than I would worry about them emulating TO. At least TO's infractions only effect the game - Ray-Ray's have spilled over into society!

Willie

Ray's friends killed somebody and he lied to cops to protect them....Do you really think a lot of kids actually thought to themselves: "Wow, Ray Lewis is really cool. If my friends ever get in trouble with the law, I'm definitely going to lie at first but then tell the truth the very next day just to be like Ray"?But a lot of kids probably emulate TO.

Ray is actually a good role model imo. He isn't perfect, as evidenced by his mistakes. But he has admitted his mistakes and made ammends. Moreover, hes very active in the community and one of the best leaders in all of sports. I wouldn't mind at all if my future kids grow up to be similar to Ray Lewis...I'll never say the same about TO.

And ask yourselves that very question: Would you rather your kids grow up to be great leaders and community figures but they are so loyal to friends that they'd even lie to get them out of trouble OR would you rather they grow up to be arrogant and obnoxious like TO? Honestly, I can't imagine many fathers would choose TO.

Great leaders and community figures don't sell youth the idea that lying out of sense of loyalty to protect pals to get them out of trouble is admirable!Where do you get this crap?

T.O. is a self absorbed dicque with the talent, imagination, and a stage to put it on- the NFL. Relatively harmless.

Ray Lewis is a liar who runs with the sort of people who pack knives, and models the tough guy image for youth. Another wrong message, don't you think?

Is either one what I would consider a great role model for youth?

If Ray Lewis made a point of reaching out to youth in an effort to teach them that what he did was wrong, and that there is no circumstances under which it would be acceptable, then he would be taking steps towards becomming a leader and community leader. That would make him a big man in my book.

Otherwise save it.

 

[jwvdcw]

Look, heres the bottom line:TO is a great player. Ray is a great player.I don't like TO ON THE FIELD because he doesn't play for my team(and I wish he did). I like Ray ON THE FIELD because he does play for one of my teams.From what I know of them, I don't like TO OFF THE FIELD because several of his former teamates have nothing but bad things to say about him. I like Ray OFF THE FIELD because everyone that knows him well says nothing but good things about him.As for morality, I don't think TO is doing anything morally wrong but dancing or celebrating, and I appluad the fact that hes never been in any legal trouble. With Ray, I think he made one mistake and then quickly righted it the very next day. He then went on to make further ammends by serving his penalty and volunteering to talk to NFL rookies so that they don't make the same mistakes. I obviously don't know either man, but I don't find anything morally wrong with either of them- Yes, they have made mistakes, but they seem like good guys.Can everyone at least agree with me on that?

Let me just bump this again.....I really have no problem at all with TO. I suspect(none of us know for sure) that he may be a jerk to his teamates, but there are plenty of jerks in this world, so I don't hold that against him.

 

[jwvdcw]

Little kills a woman while driving drunk, then gets busted for DUI while on probation.Pittman smashes his Hummer into his ex-wife's car with their young child inside while on probation for domestic abuse.R. Lewis conspires to keep murderers away from the police. Friends or no friends, it's morally bankrupt.J. Lewis pleads guilty to federal drug trafficking charges.T.O. does Ray-Ray's dance.Hmmm, where's the problem here?

I don't have a big problem with TO....And who does? Who in this thread is saying that they have a big problem with TO? I'm not understanding. I think hes probably a jerk as a teamate, but that doesn't cause me to root against him. I do root against him, but thats only because he doesn't play on my team.I agree that several of those things you listed are terrible. I don't think Ray's doings were all that bad- it was just a misdemeanor for goodness' sake! And I think that hes apologized enough and put it behind him.

 

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?Ray Lewis committed a misdemeanor. I'm no law student, but isn't going a certain speed over the speed limit also a misdemeanor? Isn't getting into a fight also a misdemeanor?

Its a small charge...Its nothing major at all. Hence the term: Misdemeanor.

You have no doubt that you'd do the right thing? What if it were your son or daughter? Would you turn them in for a life behind bars? What if Ray Lewis was so close to his friends that he thought of them in that light(as close as a son or daughter). I'm just saying- It isn't that far fetched to think that many of us would've acted in the same way. And since hes apologized and gone way out of his way to make ammends, I don't think he should still be heavily critisized for committing a misdemeanor.

 

[jwvdcw]

He had a rough childhood. He had friends from his youth that had been with him all along- he wasn't going to abondon them because he became rich. You can't hold his friends actions against him.

That, my friend, is a smoke screen full of B.S. You can't paint someone as a truly admirable person when the fact is that rather than helping 2 people who his buddies had run through with knives, he instead aided their escape and proceeded to party afterward. A real hero would have at a minimum abondoned his buddies to their own escape & tried to apply first aid to those who lie mortally wounded.To think otherwise either shows that you are subject to tunnel visioned hero worship or your value are so skewed that you honestly don't know any better. I'm not holding his buddies actions against him, I'm holding Lewis' own actions against him.Since we are talking about kids, how exactly would you feel if one of your kids were the victim of Lewis' buddies, and then you ran into someone who thought that Lewis was above reproach and a saint despite being involved as he was in your kid's death?

How old are you? I'm curious because you sound like youre an older guy.Look, I'm a Christian and I generally consider myself to be a moral person. But say I'm out at a bar, and I look over and see my friends in a fight with some others. I'm up and in there defending my friends in an instant. Now lets say that as I'm running over there to help out, my buddy pulls out a knife and stabs them. I'm not going to suddenly care about these guys that were trying to fight my friends. I'm going to help my friends get out of there ASAP. Sure I'd be shocked and disappointed in my friends' actions, but I'd still stand by him and support him. Its loyalty. It exists among friends and family.

Then you know a sin is a sin is a sin...stop trying to say one is lesser than another. I do admire your tenacity in fighting for your boy, but I can't help but feel sorry for you. I mean...you have been in here all day defending Ray Lewis. Do you think he cares?? Why do you care so much?? Is it because you have to have everyone agree with you?? I am just curious...trying to understand where you are coming from and why such a STRONG feeling on the subject..

Yes, a sin is a sin...whats that matter?'one is lesser than another'....I'm not sure what you're saying here. I've said several times that I don't mind TO's dances, so what exactly am I saying is lesser than another?Don't feel sorry for me...I'm just here having fun. I play online poker for a living, so I have tons of time in front of the computer. Ray Lewis is my favorite player and I enjoy a good spirited debate about football...thats all. I'm just having fun and debating. I've actually been accused of this many times(Artose Pinner debate, Vick debate, and several others)- I just argue strongly because I love football and enjoy debating it here(that and I have a lot of time at the computer). I don't leave the computer and think about this all day- its really not all that important to me, football is just a hobby that I enjoy discussing.

 

[jwvdcw]

Sheesh - FF ain't everything, folks.  Get a clue.

Sheesh - football ain't everything either. Whenever I see Ray-Ray I think back to how he looked in the courtroom in his orange jump-suit. Ray-Ray is as big of "self-promoter" as there is in the NFL. Turn on ESPN and that's all you ever see - Ray-Ray bein' a thug.

I would worry more that young kids would want to emulate his behavior than I would worry about them emulating TO. At least TO's infractions only effect the game - Ray-Ray's have spilled over into society!

Willie

Ray's friends killed somebody and he lied to cops to protect them....Do you really think a lot of kids actually thought to themselves: "Wow, Ray Lewis is really cool. If my friends ever get in trouble with the law, I'm definitely going to lie at first but then tell the truth the very next day just to be like Ray"?But a lot of kids probably emulate TO.

Ray is actually a good role model imo. He isn't perfect, as evidenced by his mistakes. But he has admitted his mistakes and made ammends. Moreover, hes very active in the community and one of the best leaders in all of sports. I wouldn't mind at all if my future kids grow up to be similar to Ray Lewis...I'll never say the same about TO.

And ask yourselves that very question: Would you rather your kids grow up to be great leaders and community figures but they are so loyal to friends that they'd even lie to get them out of trouble OR would you rather they grow up to be arrogant and obnoxious like TO? Honestly, I can't imagine many fathers would choose TO.

Great leaders and community figures don't sell youth the idea that lying out of sense of loyalty to protect pals to get them out of trouble is admirable!Where do you get this crap?

T.O. is a self absorbed dicque with the talent, imagination, and a stage to put it on- the NFL. Relatively harmless.

Ray Lewis is a liar who runs with the sort of people who pack knives, and models the tough guy image for youth. Another wrong message, don't you think?

Is either one what I would consider a great role model for youth?

If Ray Lewis made a point of reaching out to youth in an effort to teach them that what he did was wrong, and that there is no circumstances under which it would be acceptable, then he would be taking steps towards becomming a leader and community leader. That would make him a big man in my book.

Otherwise save it.

Ray Lewis has talked to several of the last few rookie crops about the mistakes he made(about choosing your friends and situations wisely). Also, he has served his sentence from the law without one complaint. He made one small mistake(a misdemeanor), he served his sentence, then went above and beyond and reached out to NFL rookies to make sure they don't make the same mistake. He is very active among the Baltimore community, and yes he works with kids often. He is one of the best leaders in the game, and all his teamates love him. What else do you want him to do?

 

[glock]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?Ray Lewis committed a misdemeanor. I'm no law student, but isn't going a certain speed over the speed limit also a misdemeanor? Isn't getting into a fight also a misdemeanor?

Its a small charge...Its nothing major at all. Hence the term: Misdemeanor.

You have no doubt that you'd do the right thing? What if it were your son or daughter? Would you turn them in for a life behind bars? What if Ray Lewis was so close to his friends that he thought of them in that light(as close as a son or daughter). I'm just saying- It isn't that far fetched to think that many of us would've acted in the same way. And since hes apologized and gone way out of his way to make ammends, I don't think he should still be heavily critisized for committing a misdemeanor.

Personal? You basically called me a liar.Ray Lewis plead to a misdemanor. He got offered a deal.

Please tell me then, just how has he gone way out of his way to make amends?

 

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?Ray Lewis committed a misdemeanor. I'm no law student, but isn't going a certain speed over the speed limit also a misdemeanor? Isn't getting into a fight also a misdemeanor?

Its a small charge...Its nothing major at all. Hence the term: Misdemeanor.

You have no doubt that you'd do the right thing? What if it were your son or daughter? Would you turn them in for a life behind bars? What if Ray Lewis was so close to his friends that he thought of them in that light(as close as a son or daughter). I'm just saying- It isn't that far fetched to think that many of us would've acted in the same way. And since hes apologized and gone way out of his way to make ammends, I don't think he should still be heavily critisized for committing a misdemeanor.

Personal? You basically called me a liar.Ray Lewis plead to a misdemanor. He got offered a deal.

Please tell me then, just how has he gone way out of his way to make amends?

I didn't specifically call you a liar. I said if 'anyone is 100% sure that they'd do this..." then they're a liar. Sorry if that offended you, but I really don't think that warranted your calling me a loser.What has he done to make ammends? I feel like I've covered this already: He served his sentence, he publicly apologized, he offered to speak at NFL rookie camps so that rookies wouldn't make the same mistakes he did, he does a ton of charity work in the Baltimore area. Honestly...what else would you like him to do?

 

[jwvdcw]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?Ray Lewis committed a misdemeanor. I'm no law student, but isn't going a certain speed over the speed limit also a misdemeanor? Isn't getting into a fight also a misdemeanor?

Its a small charge...Its nothing major at all. Hence the term: Misdemeanor.

You have no doubt that you'd do the right thing? What if it were your son or daughter? Would you turn them in for a life behind bars? What if Ray Lewis was so close to his friends that he thought of them in that light(as close as a son or daughter). I'm just saying- It isn't that far fetched to think that many of us would've acted in the same way. And since hes apologized and gone way out of his way to make ammends, I don't think he should still be heavily critisized for committing a misdemeanor.

Personal? You basically called me a liar.Ray Lewis plead to a misdemanor. He got offered a deal.

Please tell me then, just how has he gone way out of his way to make amends?

Oh yeah, and my question again:I'm not sure if you're married or have kids...but take the closest person to you in your life whether it be your wife, son, daughter, mom, dad, or whomever...if they told you they killed somebody but the cops had no clue about it...would you rat them out? If you say yes, then you're a better man than I(and 99% of the people in the world). If you say no, then you'd be guilty of the same crime as Ray Lewis.

 

[glock]

But other than sticking up for his best friends by not ratting them out to the cops...what has Ray Lewis ever done to show that hes such a bad person?

Lieing to protect murderers

So if your best friend, mom, son, etc. murdered somebody, you'd be first in line to tell the cops?Some people would call that loyalty.

I'm not necessarily defending it as the right thing to do, but its not such a terrible thing as you're making it out to be.

Moreover, he has apologized numerous times and now he helps out in rookie camps to let everyone know how to avoid making those same mistakes...I'd say hes earned his retribution.

So lets see...T.O. does what YOU would love to be in the position to do...and he is an ###.

Lewis doesn't "rat out" his murdering pals- read: breaking the law himself- and manages to cop a deal, largely thanks to his position...and T.O. is an ###.?

Law breaker > ###?

You my freind and "the hood" share a slightly skewed take on reality...

Ray Lewis' first thought was to protect his friends, so he lied the first time he was questioned. THE VERY NEXT DAY, he went back and told the truth and ratted out his friends. He was put in a very tough position and he quickly made a decision. A day later, he changed his mind and did the right, albeit very hard, thing.

I still fail to see whats so wrong with all that.

I would definitely lie to cops to protect my best friend or family members. And if you say that you're 100% sure that you wouldn't and that in that split second you have to make a decision you would rat your friends/family out, then you're a liar.

Listen up, Ray Lewis' beeyotch- don't go projecting your sadly misguided sense of ghetto justice and morality in my direction simply because your hero worshipping head is so far up your ***! You stand up tall and proud to state that you would definitely lie to the police as if that is some noble act. You put loyalty and lieing together in the same sentence and don't see anything wrong with that.

You admit that you fail to see what is wrong with that.

Not I.

I don't doubt for one minute that I would do the right thing under those circumstances- cooperate with the police because those really put in a "tough position"- though dead -deserve that.

Roll that up in your authentic Ray Lewis jersey and smoke it- Loser.

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?Ray Lewis committed a misdemeanor. I'm no law student, but isn't going a certain speed over the speed limit also a misdemeanor? Isn't getting into a fight also a misdemeanor?

Its a small charge...Its nothing major at all. Hence the term: Misdemeanor.

You have no doubt that you'd do the right thing? What if it were your son or daughter? Would you turn them in for a life behind bars? What if Ray Lewis was so close to his friends that he thought of them in that light(as close as a son or daughter). I'm just saying- It isn't that far fetched to think that many of us would've acted in the same way. And since hes apologized and gone way out of his way to make ammends, I don't think he should still be heavily critisized for committing a misdemeanor.

Personal? You basically called me a liar.Ray Lewis plead to a misdemanor. He got offered a deal.

Please tell me then, just how has he gone way out of his way to make amends?

Oh yeah, and my question again:I'm not sure if you're married or have kids...but take the closest person to you in your life whether it be your wife, son, daughter, mom, dad, or whomever...if they told you they killed somebody but the cops had no clue about it...would you rat them out? If you say yes, then you're a better man than I(and 99% of the people in the world). If you say no, then you'd be guilty of the same crime as Ray Lewis.

Dude. These guys were m-u-r-d-e-r-e-r-s.

Is your justice scale that far off that you have loyalty to murdering freinds outweighing your own sense of honesty and dignity.

I said I would do the right thing. You don't appear able to recognize what that is. And I think you are selling people way to short in thinking that 99% of the populace would aid and abet a murderer- any murderer.

So, how ABOUT Ray-Rays going far out of his way to make amends for his deeds?

 

[placeholder10391]

You're making this way too personal. Why the hatred towards me?

We're making this personal, or you're making it personal by posting on this thread literally, what, 50 times??To hell with Ray Lewis, he got every bit of what he deserved, and I hope more of it follows.

 

[JohnnyU]

No I dont feel for saying anything because I didn't say anything absurb or inappropriate. If a player wants to celebrate and act like a jackass, so be it. He doesn't have a DUI or murder rap or beat his wife or do drugs or anything else wrong. He talks trash, he makes a fool of himself and celebrates. So what??? it doesn't hurt anyone.

Likewise, hating TO and wanting him to fall on his face isnt hurting anyone either. So what if people hate TO? So what if we chat about that on a forum or two? So what if there's a bunch of threads about why TO is a punk? It doesnt hurt anyone, right?So why do you feel the need to defend TO in the first place?

Regardless of what you think of him, he's not a distraction to the team nor is he malicious... anyone who can't see this is obviously jealous that he isn't on your team...E-A-G-L-E-S-Eagles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He hasnt been a distraction to the Eagles yet. He was a major distraction to the Niners. I think he will eventually wear on the Eagles. They arent going to go undefeated and if they accumulate a few losses in a row his me-first attitude will corrupt that team.

You screwed up the quote. I didn't say those thingsI said - All it would take to shut up TO, is Ray Lewis or someone like him to bust him in the mouth. Catch him out at some nightclub and beat the living crap out of him. That will shut him up (some). I also said -Nope, not from PennsylvaniaI also said -Dont you feel for saying that? I also said -I hope you realize that he is not a distraction as long as the Eagles are winning. Otherwise, I guarantee you that Owens WOULD BE a distraction.

 

[ravnzfan]

back on point...TO wrote a book...called Newsome 'a racist', based on what his agent told him, not by any direct conversation TO had directly w/Ozzie...this came to light shortly before the gameRay said he was 'a coward'....'ya think?maybe it's a case of but one would hope the 'celebrations' wouldn't involve stomping on an opponents logo @ midfield...or slinging slurs at a GM that tried to trade for you...