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Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Back to divisional round for 3rd time in 4 years (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The last two years is really just because the division was so down. But, they did win 6 of their last 8 games this year.
They’re doing something right.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
They're the best of the mediocre teams in the NFC South. Hard to scare teams when you're dead last in rushing for the last couple years.
gump
Footballguy
Liam Coen Bucs new OC…coached Baker in LA.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Baker at the Pro Bowl says he expects contract talks to pick up now that the OC is in place.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That about locks up Baker coming back to TB
I do hope the Bucs find a QB prospect to groom long term
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I was sitting in La Teresita the morning after the Bucs lost to Detroit and I had a fellow across from where I was sitting in the back cafe and he was decked out head to toe in Bucs
I asked him how much would you be comfortable with paying Baker next year and he spit out $25M so fast it made my head spin
I posed the same scenarios a few more times around some of the TB Breweries like Magnanimous, my new favorite.
They all seem comfortable wanting him back and somewhere in the $20-$25M range seems normal to most fans
Because it never is exactly how fans think it will go...would 2 yrs $40M fully guaranteed get it done?
My guess is Baker might get $30-$35M, something like 3 yrs/$100M that starts at $25M and escalates up but has no guaranteed money in '25/'26
Just my take
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I mean, if I’m Baker’s agent I just say “Daniel Jones.”
Maybe the early base salaries are lower, but I’d want the same amount of guaranteed money.
Baker will have suitors.
Maybe the early base salaries are lower, but I’d want the same amount of guaranteed money.
Baker will have suitors.
Capella
Footballguy
My favorite restaurant. Went to West Tampa Sandwich Shop the other day though and got the Honey Cuban. Extremely hard to beat sandwich.
Capella
Footballguy
They were mediocre until December and then pretty good afterwards with the exception of the Saints game. Winning a playoff game and being one drive away from the NFC title game is better than mediocre.
Capella
Footballguy
I think the Bucs would be well served to be careful here. I want him back but they are building the outline of another really good team and handing this guy 40M could blow it up.
However, Licht is really good at his job and I suspect he’s willing to let him walk if it gets anywhere near that price.
My guess is 3 years at 28M per with the guaranteed money being in the 50s. Let’s say 58.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I don’t disagree and would be thrilled with that. I just don’t think he’ll be a Buc in that scenario. His numbers were better than Jones’. Both won a playoff game.
Our other options are Trask and a rookie.
I’d have trouble doing it too though. Bakers typical play looked a lot better at only $4M last year than than it would have if he was making $40M.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And that folks just about sums it up for me...I'm not sure I'm comfortable giving him $25M a year even for just 1-2 years but the reality is most teams have a fairly large budget for QB
-Penix might very well be on the board or at least a guy the Bucs could move up a little bit in the 1st Rd if they really thought he was worth the risk. I'll let you all debate whether Penix is good or not, I like the way he spins and throws the football but he has flaws like any one.
I would prefer the Bucs load up on Draft picks and get a new wave of energy moving thru the team. Even if they don't make it 5 yrs in a row Playoffs but were much stronger going into 2025.
Teams that are good in the NFL typically have the HC and QB nailed down. All we do in here is go round and round waiting for Bowles to leave and wondering if Baker is truly a plan.
The history and track record of both Baker and Bowles = NFL or Not For Long
IMHO, the only reason Bucs fans are OK with Baker is that there isn't another guy on the roster better than him presently
Licht has to change that. There's no way he thought paying Baker $4M was going to get the Bucs to the Division Rd of the NFC Playoffs
Licht record prior to Brady is rough, I've posted it before but it's 34-62 from 2014 thru 2019, a full 6 seasons and the Bucs had double digit losses 4 of those 6 years.
43-70 in non Brady years overall, folks don't give Coach Bill Belichick much credit outside of Brady, why should Bucs fans think differently with Licht?
Licht-Bowles-Baker...hate to be the wet rag of the group, however I'm not sold that's the winning formula long term or perhaps even short term in '24.
But the good news is the off season and a few player moves and draft picks, things can change quickly.
Russ? I hate him but he likely will be available
Capella
Footballguy
Licht built the team that attracted Brady. It’s disingenuous to suggest anything otherwise. That team in 2019 would have won at least 10 games without a QB throwing 30 picks.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, that team was in place and ready to roll once Brady got there. The only other major addition, IIRC, was Gronkowski—and he was borderline superfluous.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
3 years $75M; $60M guaranteed and I’d feel pretty comfortable. Short term window. Build on 2023.
Use draft picks to solidify other weak areas of the team.
Baker is only 29 though. Maybe Licht has pulled off a franchise QB coup here without using draft capital whatsoever.
The Bucs went 6-2 in their last 8 games and if it weren’t for some defensive injuries they were knocking on the door of the NFCCG. Letting the QB that accomplished that go over money seems asinine.
I want to see if they can build on that continuity and late season growth as a team so I’d pay him, within reason.
I don’t think I’d go Daniel Jones, but I think that’s the asking price. Who balks first and can he get it from someone else?
Mayfield showed the NFL he’s a top 15 starter, and that carries value for teams that think they’re a QB away. Pittsburgh, Atlanta. The Bucs aren’t getting him back on some cheap hometown discount. Atlanta just inked a bunch of Rams coaches too, and they’d be scary with a real QB, all those weapons, and a top 15 pick.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Brady had no place to go
Miami got caught tampering, lost a 1st and a 3rd and SF wouldn't take his phone calls
Let's keep it real
-I'm cool with watching what he does to morph the team from Brady to a new era, we're not there yet.
I love your unbridled support of the Bucs, it's inspiring and I love the photo you put out of yourself the night of the Bucs-Philly playoff game, you're a true fan.
I'm just being the media skeptic for the mot part, forgive me
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Gronk and Antonio Brown caught all the TDs in the Super Bowl IIRC
31-9 and Brady did make the offense better and they also drafted an OL named Tristan Whirfs that year
I'd say the Bucs did a lot and were not just ready to roll but I get where you all are coming from and I don't want to play tug of war, my view of it is somewhat different
rockaction
Footballguy
Good point about Brown. I'd forgotten the nuttiness. He certainly contributed. But Gronk seemed like he was a stuck-on appendage for them when they already had a functioning one.
Capella
Footballguy
Ok who drafted Tristan Wirfs lol
Licht drafted Godwin, Evans, Winfield, Vea, Dean and David, Marpet, Cappa, signed Jensen and Shaq Barrett and of course recruited Brady and then when Brady left they made the divisional round. Guy is a top quarter GM.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I know most of you are way more advanced than the average Bucs fan but I wanted to share a direct link to free PFF grades, sometimes folks can't find info they want
If you pull up an NFL roster on PFF, you can pull up most of the players individually and see where PFF ranks them, not saying it's the end all be all.
www.pff.com
That link should take you directly to where you can click on starters and see where they ranked amongst their peers in the NFL
If you pull up an NFL roster on PFF, you can pull up most of the players individually and see where PFF ranks them, not saying it's the end all be all.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers | NFL roster by position | PFF
The current NFL roster for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers listed by position on Pro Football Focus.
www.pff.com
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I meant to say that. Licht is actually a solid drafter and I can go thru all of his draft picks
Much of the 2020 team as I recall, was paying rookie deals to talented DBs. Maybe his draft picks early on were up n down but mostly of late he's been pretty good.
-I would like to see the Bucs turn a 1st 2nd and 3rd into multiple picks in the 50-100 range since this draft is not totally loaded.
Grier runs the Phins down here, he is not a very good drafter, he really isn't. And i don't think many Miami fans would defend him as such
What he is good at is trading picks for proven talent but you gotta pay primo for that
There's a balance
And I can be rational. most teams would be happy to win a Super Bowl once a decade
I've gotten to experience 2 of them with the Bucs and gotten my money's worth for buying season tickets at the Sombrero way back in the early-mid 90s.
I understand why some might question what my knowledge really is with the Bucs
I feel strongly that this game I am about to link was the turning point for Tampa Bay
I am a Tony Dungy disciple, understand why the Bucs had to move on, the NFCC vs the Rams almost killed me.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't disagree at all but Gronk was a Brady disciple and he could bring the message to others on the team that maybe Brady couldn't reach at first
Most guys that played with Gronk loved him and the energy he brought whenever he entered the building
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
LG-Center-RG
What is the plan for the starting IOL, many of you think Mauch will advance next season
Mauch was ranked 74th of 79 rated starting Guards in the NFL, that has to change drastically.
Robert Hainsey at Center was 32nd out of 36 rated Centers or close to dead last
-This has me wondering if perhaps White might be a better RB or ability to gain between the Tackles than I give him credit for.
Stinnie was rated 47th out of the same 79 rated Guards according to PFF
That 3 man Island in the middle has to get ironed out
Baker needs a strong running game to operate behind
What is the plan for the starting IOL, many of you think Mauch will advance next season
Mauch was ranked 74th of 79 rated starting Guards in the NFL, that has to change drastically.
Robert Hainsey at Center was 32nd out of 36 rated Centers or close to dead last
-This has me wondering if perhaps White might be a better RB or ability to gain between the Tackles than I give him credit for.
Stinnie was rated 47th out of the same 79 rated Guards according to PFF
That 3 man Island in the middle has to get ironed out
Baker needs a strong running game to operate behind
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Pretty good for a month except one week? Okay. Dead last two years running needs major improvement imo.
They did win a playoff game and finished with a winning record. That was good. Maybe a little better than mediocre? 8-10 in the last year with Brady, 10-9 with Baker. That's a .500 team. They're probably 5-12 without Baker, so they need to sign him ASAP. If you don't like the word mediocre, I'll say they were the best team in the worst division. If they keep Evans and Baker, they still look like the best team in that division.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I didn't bother to watch the Super Bowl until the 4th quarter, just in time to watch a great ending and the Titans coming up a couple yards short.I meant to say that. Licht is actually a solid drafter and I can go thru all of his draft picks
Much of the 2020 team as I recall, was paying rookie deals to talented DBs. Maybe his draft picks early on were up n down but mostly of late he's been pretty good.
-I would like to see the Bucs turn a 1st 2nd and 3rd into multiple picks in the 50-100 range since this draft is not totally loaded.
Grier runs the Phins down here, he is not a very good drafter, he really isn't. And i don't think many Miami fans would defend him as such
What he is good at is trading picks for proven talent but you gotta pay primo for that
There's a balance
And I can be rational. most teams would be happy to win a Super Bowl once a decade
I've gotten to experience 2 of them with the Bucs and gotten my money's worth for buying season tickets at the Sombrero way back in the early-mid 90s.
I understand why some might question what my knowledge really is with the Bucs
I feel strongly that this game I am about to link was the turning point for Tampa Bay
I was there, some of you were there, this put the NFL on notice the Bucs could not be pushed around any more
I am a Tony Dungy disciple, understand why the Bucs had to move on, the NFCC vs the Rams almost killed me.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Jensen has now officially retired.
The iOL for sure needs work as @Ministry of Pain has pointed out. Mauch is a Licht special at RG. Converted OT from a small school kicked inside to guard. The track record on these guys, at least for the Bucs, has been a big positive leap in their second years. We’ll see.
They need upgrades at LG and center as well. However, I’d expect they give Hainsey another year there or move him to fill the LG spot if they draft a center early on.
Rachaad White could use a running mate. Don’t know if Sean Tucker will emerge? The hype on him fizzled out quickly. Ray Davis from Kentucky may be a target now with Coen on board as OC.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Penix needs to be the goal in the 1st Rd of the Draft, it's time to invest in a QB for the next 3-4 years that won't cost an arm and a leg.
25-3 last 2 seasons for the Huskies
4,600 31/8
4,900 36/11 over 15 games including a deep playoff run, think they lost to Michigan in the Finals
What else do you need to see? I felt the same way about Stroud coming out and he went 2nd overall
The Bucs would be handed a gift if this guy is on the board when they pick, my gut says he will rise a lot higher than what he's been projected at
The kid can throw the football into tight windows, I know he has baggage off the field and almost quit football, some of the greats almost throw it all away
He would be landing on a team that is not a bare cupboard. I thought rebuild but a good QB prospect would have me rethinking all that
The issue is Rookie-QB and Todd Bowles, that's gonna be a problem
25-3 last 2 seasons for the Huskies
4,600 31/8
4,900 36/11 over 15 games including a deep playoff run, think they lost to Michigan in the Finals
What else do you need to see? I felt the same way about Stroud coming out and he went 2nd overall
The Bucs would be handed a gift if this guy is on the board when they pick, my gut says he will rise a lot higher than what he's been projected at
The kid can throw the football into tight windows, I know he has baggage off the field and almost quit football, some of the greats almost throw it all away
He would be landing on a team that is not a bare cupboard. I thought rebuild but a good QB prospect would have me rethinking all that
The issue is Rookie-QB and Todd Bowles, that's gonna be a problem
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Mike Evans is back for $26M per year
Only 2 years, no problem with the Bucs paying him, he's still a Top 10-15 WR in the NFL
Rookie Qb should walk right in and find success
Only 2 years, no problem with the Bucs paying him, he's still a Top 10-15 WR in the NFL
Rookie Qb should walk right in and find success
Capella
Footballguy
why do you keep saying this
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Because I don't believe in Baker Mayfield
Just because the Bucs avoided hitting an iceberg, they were 4-7 at one point?
Nobody thought Baker was very good at that moment, they win an easy Division, use their playoff experience to easily put down the Eagles, get close vs Detroit...
-Cap, look at other teams that have veteran leadership and can draft a rookie and use that set price tag at QB to build a great team around them
Look at what SF did, Houston with CJ Stroud, you can do a lot when you hit on the rookie QB and I feel this Draft class is going to have multiple arms for teams to pick over.
There's talent at the Mid-Back end of the 1st/early 2nd, it's time to push Trask off the team and get a big arm to propel the Bucs forward.
That's how I feel, I'm not arguing with any of you or trying to be right, just offering my POV, and it's totally cool if we don't see it the same way.
I'm happy Evans is back, we all agree on the IOL needing a big boost or lift, maybe the Draft will help with some of that.
Capella
Footballguy
I see where you are coming from but the team cooked pretty well the last 9 games. Some grace period was expected.
Either way there is practically zero chance Evans comes back to play with a rookie. Maybe I’ll give you the 5% chance they trade for Justin Fields but otherwise it’s pretty clear Baker is coming back. It will not be a rookie.
Either way there is practically zero chance Evans comes back to play with a rookie. Maybe I’ll give you the 5% chance they trade for Justin Fields but otherwise it’s pretty clear Baker is coming back. It will not be a rookie.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I'd be all for it if they had a top 5 pick, but when you pick 26th you kind of need to go with the girl that brought you to the dance. A 5 year deal for Baker with 2.5 of it guaranteed so that he's playing with Mike and then focus on future for 2026 IF Baker isn't the answer. If he plays the way he did last year they can certainly win with him.
I still think they should draft someone this year with some upside as Trask only has one more year on his deal. Would love Spencer Rattler in round 3-4.
I still think they should draft someone this year with some upside as Trask only has one more year on his deal. Would love Spencer Rattler in round 3-4.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It sure seems like the Atlanta Falcons could be big trouble ahead
I'm rational, Cousins is not a HoF QB and he's coming off an achilles tear, if you have ever seen this guy, over 6 feet I'd be shocked.
But the fact is Atlanta has a lot of young weapons and hasn't been able to use them properly, that might change.
I still think the Bucs are better than New Orleans and Carolina, but it does feel like all the teams are getting better around the Bucs
Maybe 8-9/9-8 won't take the Division this year.
Did you all see where Shaq Barrett landed? I can't believe the Phins gave him $9M
That guy is cooked, is he not? And he had 1 great season, yes/no? Bucs win the Super Bowl, kind of forced to pay him after 19 sacks,
Injuries a big part of his recent decline, I can't see him doing a lot for Miami
I'm rational, Cousins is not a HoF QB and he's coming off an achilles tear, if you have ever seen this guy, over 6 feet I'd be shocked.
But the fact is Atlanta has a lot of young weapons and hasn't been able to use them properly, that might change.
I still think the Bucs are better than New Orleans and Carolina, but it does feel like all the teams are getting better around the Bucs
Maybe 8-9/9-8 won't take the Division this year.
Did you all see where Shaq Barrett landed? I can't believe the Phins gave him $9M
That guy is cooked, is he not? And he had 1 great season, yes/no? Bucs win the Super Bowl, kind of forced to pay him after 19 sacks,
Injuries a big part of his recent decline, I can't see him doing a lot for Miami
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
1.26 Graham Barton, IOL and could play Guard or Center
A lot of folks liked him coming into the Draft, Bucs needed OL help, seems like a solid pick
Week 1 starter?
2.57 Chris Braswell, Edge
I was high on this guy, I wouldn't call him a steal but he has a lot of potential on this Bucs' D
Getting stronger along the OL and adding an Edge rusher that can compete for a starting spot as a rookie, these were good picks overall.
Still a 3rd round pick later tonight.
A lot of folks liked him coming into the Draft, Bucs needed OL help, seems like a solid pick
Week 1 starter?
2.57 Chris Braswell, Edge
I was high on this guy, I wouldn't call him a steal but he has a lot of potential on this Bucs' D
Getting stronger along the OL and adding an Edge rusher that can compete for a starting spot as a rookie, these were good picks overall.
Still a 3rd round pick later tonight.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Two thirds, super fan.
hamsterdam
Footballguy
Really liking the Bucs picks so far.
