Tatum Bell Not Satisfied With RBBC (1 Viewer)

[Couch Potato]

Broncos | Bell wants starting opportunity

Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:09:35 -0800

Frank Schwab, of the Colorado Springs Gazette, reports Denver Broncos RB Tatum Bell wants to be the team's 2006 starting running back. "Once I get that chance, I feel like I'll prove myself," said Bell. "I don't want to do the rotating thing. I want to be the man. The committee thing worked this year and it was good for the team, but I learned a lot in my playing time and I want the chance to get more."

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Interesting comments in light of the recent Dayne signing, the assumptions by many that Dayne will start in 2006, and that Bell can't handle the full load.

 

[bumpman]

And grass is green. What's new?

 

[Couch Potato]

And grass is green. What's new?

Good input, smartass. EDIT: Let me add a smilie to this so you know I'm not annoyed.

 

[Ozymandias]

I understand WalMart is hiring, full time.

 

[TheFanatic]

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

In all seriosuness, what's the likelihood that Shanny actually gives him a shot to earn the starting job outright? How many chances does the guy get?

 

[Kub]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking. There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft.

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers). Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets. If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

 

[Blackjacks]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking. There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft.

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers). Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets. If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How do you really think.

 

[Blackjacks]

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

In all seriosuness, what's the likelihood that Shanny actually gives him a shot to earn the starting job outright? How many chances does the guy get?

How many shots has he had? His rookie year he got hurt and last year they had a great 1 2 option, I think releasing Anderson is showing him that this is his shot. By the way I traded him so that means he will be a top ten back this year."THOUGHT" Scotty

 

[Couch Potato]

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

You expected him to bust off 1500 yards with the 173 carries they gave him? He averaged 5.3 YPC and scored 8 times. I'm not sure what it is people wanted him to do with his opportunities last year if that was insufficient.

 

[Blackjacks]

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

You expected him to bust off 1500 yards with the 173 carries they gave him? He averaged 5.3 YPC and scored 8 times. I'm not sure what it is people wanted him to do with his opportunities last year if that was insufficient.

I'm a big Tatum fan but alot of those yards were in the second half of games after Anderson wore them down. 3 of his 8 td's were in one game where he had 57 yards rushing and 2 were late in the second half against I believe NE. His yards, yards per carry and td's are alittle misleading. Now, I still believe he could be a fantastic rb if he got the job based on his speed and surprisely good patience. He waits for the cutback and goes and that is what Denver wants their rb's to do.

 

[AnonymousBob]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking. There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft.

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers). Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets. If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How is what he's doing "squawking"? He's a guy saying Gimme a chance and I'll be your man. What in the world is wrong wtih that? Would you rather him say "You know, I really couldn't hold up if you gave me more carries. I prefer sharing the job. I'm not good enough to have the starting job to myself." Seriously, WTF?

 

[JohnnyU]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking.  There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft. 

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers).  Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets.  If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How is what he's doing "squawking"? He's a guy saying Gimme a chance and I'll be your man. What in the world is wrong wtih that? Would you rather him say "You know, I really couldn't hold up if you gave me more carries. I prefer sharing the job. I'm not good enough to have the starting job to myself." Seriously, WTF?

I like that.

 

[Blackjacks]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking. There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft.

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers). Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets. If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How is what he's doing "squawking"? He's a guy saying Gimme a chance and I'll be your man. What in the world is wrong wtih that? Would you rather him say "You know, I really couldn't hold up if you gave me more carries. I prefer sharing the job. I'm not good enough to have the starting job to myself." Seriously, WTF?

How many dynasty leagues do you have him in?

 

[AnonymousBob]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking.  There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft. 

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers).  Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets.  If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How is what he's doing "squawking"? He's a guy saying Gimme a chance and I'll be your man. What in the world is wrong wtih that? Would you rather him say "You know, I really couldn't hold up if you gave me more carries. I prefer sharing the job. I'm not good enough to have the starting job to myself." Seriously, WTF?

How many dynasty leagues do you have him in?

None. Nor do I plan on acquiring him in any unless he can be had ridiculously cheaply. I just think all Tatum was saying was he wanted a shot at being the starter. We're now attacking guys for stating their desire to improve?

 

[joffer]

This isn't the best time for marginal RBs to be squawking.  There aren't many vacancies around the league(Colts are the only team with an obvious need), and there are 3-4 blue chippers on the way in the draft. 

If there is a market for RBs out there, it seems like it would be more for the bruising style to compliment the speed back teams already have(Eagles, Steelers, Falcons, Panthers).  Other than that, there are a few teams likely looking for someone to slot behind or compete with aging RBs(Patriots, Jets)

I'd say Tatum is better off shutting his mouth and making the most of the opportunity he gets.  If he does that, some team will give him what he is looking for.

How is what he's doing "squawking"? He's a guy saying Gimme a chance and I'll be your man. What in the world is wrong wtih that? Would you rather him say "You know, I really couldn't hold up if you gave me more carries. I prefer sharing the job. I'm not good enough to have the starting job to myself." Seriously, WTF?

reporter asks him if he wants the starting job, what's he supposed to say.....no?

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

As a Bell owner, I like this. He's got a fire in his little belly. Maybe he'll work harder this off-season and beat out the great Ron Dayne.

 

[acefootball]

Broncos | Bell wants starting opportunity

Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:09:35 -0800

Frank Schwab, of the Colorado Springs Gazette, reports Denver Broncos RB Tatum Bell wants to be the team's 2006 starting running back. "Once I get that chance, I feel like I'll prove myself," said Bell. "I don't want to do the rotating thing. I want to be the man. The committee thing worked this year and it was good for the team, but I learned a lot in my playing time and I want the chance to get more."

----

Interesting comments in light of the recent Dayne signing, the assumptions by many that Dayne will start in 2006, and that Bell can't handle the full load.

Maybe this is why we heard the rumors of Denver shopping Bell. Perhaps Tatum doesn't want to be the "role" player Shanny wants.

 

[Kub]

It may have been the subject line of the post or simply a knee-jerk reaction from reading a lot of "I want this or I won't be happy" articles that made me assume he was complaining. Reading it again, it looks like that wasn't the intention of the quote. My bad.

 

[bumpman]

Wow. This thread is still going? How does this statement warrant any analysis? Every NFL back that is not a feature back will say they want more opportunities when asked by the press. So what?

We should be talking about why Denver wanted to bring Jamal Lewis in. That fact is much more relevant to the FF RB situation in Denver.

 

[broncofan13000]

As a Bell owner, I like this. He's got a fire in his little belly. Maybe he'll work harder this off-season and beat out the great Ron Dayne.

i'm hoping the same thing

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bell is too weak in picking up blitzes and such on passing downs to be an every down back. Until he improves drastically in that area, I think Shanahan will be reluctant to make him their indisputed go-to RB.

 

[SSOG]

The fluff pieces are beginning early this year. This is entirely meaningless. Every single backup or situational RB in the league is going to say that he wants the full-time job, and is going to bust his butt to get it. Every single one of them.

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

In all seriosuness, what's the likelihood that Shanny actually gives him a shot to earn the starting job outright? How many chances does the guy get?

I'd say the likelihood is 100% that Shanahan gives him a shot to earn the job outright. Shanahan has a very long history of letting his best players play, regardless of things like tenure or salary. As long as Bell isn't rocking the boat and causing problems (a la Daryl Gardner), he'll be given as much chance to win the starting job as Dayne or whatever rookie Denver drafts.

 

[Garts]

The fluff pieces are beginning early this year. This is entirely meaningless. Every single backup or situational RB in the league is going to say that he wants the full-time job, and is going to bust his butt to get it. Every single one of them.

My though on this is, "Hey Tatum, how about earning that starting job. If you can't bust off 1500 behind that line then you're a chump."

In all seriosuness, what's the likelihood that Shanny actually gives him a shot to earn the starting job outright? How many chances does the guy get?

I'd say the likelihood is 100% that Shanahan gives him a shot to earn the job outright. Shanahan has a very long history of letting his best players play, regardless of things like tenure or salary. As long as Bell isn't rocking the boat and causing problems (a la Daryl Gardner), he'll be given as much chance to win the starting job as Dayne or whatever rookie Denver drafts.

I like Bell a lot, I am a Denver homer....but Bell isperfect in the role that he has. Better in moderation.

 

[msommer]

The off season must have arrived - another Denver RB thread - there will be many more...

 

[P Boy]

As soon as Bell shows that he can be anywhere nearly as productive in his second 12 carries as he is in his first 12 carries in games, he'll get the nod. So far, all he's shown is that his production falls off the table after he has 12 carries.

That's why he'll be a RBBC or changeup RB as long as he plays in DEN.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

As soon as Bell shows that he can be anywhere nearly as productive in his second 12 carries as he is in his first 12 carries in games, he'll get the nod. So far, all he's shown is that his production falls off the table after he has 12 carries.

That's why he'll be a RBBC or changeup RB as long as he plays in DEN.

I think it may be a little early to pigeon hole him as a guy whose production falls off after 12 carries. The sample size is quite small for those carries and could easily be quite skewed by the fact that the Broncos were frequently playing with the lead when those carries occured. Given that, he was probably reminded to protect the ball, stay in bounds, and just get the first down. Not circumstances nornmally associated with a R.B. doing their best statistical work. That said we do have both some statistical evidence of his lessened production as well as Shanahan's subjective opinion, so it is incumbent on Bell to show otherwise. Thus far he has only promised he is that guy, he has not shown it. Time to let his production do the talking and not his mouth.

As a Bell owner I do have doubts about his ability to be Shanahan's undisputed full time back. He may be better suited to a coach like Gruden who likes scat backs, but he would need to improve his pass catching. At this point as a Bell owner I am no longer hoping for an increased roll for him. I am accepting he will be a very productive change of pace guy who will be a great #3 R.B. on my roster capable of great bye week production and spot duty as an injury fill in, but little more.

 

[Family Matters]

For those bashing Bell, you are misguided. First off, he should want to be the starter. Like many have posted, why would a team want a guy that didn't want to be the starter? Criticizing him make you look like a Bell hater.

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself. So to make statements that he needs to prove himself are silly. Droughns didn't prove himself before he was given an opportunity. Give him the ball and see what he can do. Then make your analysis. But to date we've only seen a few heavy carries games in limited form. Any good RB needs to be given the ball 20+ on a week in week out basis before you can say they can or can't handle the load. Bell has never been given that chance.

Lastly, for those that think the Broncos are feeling Dayne is their guy, look at the contract he just signed. It's back up money. It's not the type of deal that says "you're our guy". So either they are going to give Bell a real chance or they plan on making another move in FA or the draft.

With the success he's had in limited carries it's clear he's an explosive runner. Not allowing such a talent the chance to show what he can do is crazy IMO. You at least give him a chance and then decide. You always want to see what guys can do in "game situations". Some guys don't perform until the lights are on and you've got to see what they're made of then.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

For those bashing Bell, you are misguided. First off, he should want to be the starter. Like many have posted, why would a team want a guy that didn't want to be the starter? Criticizing him make you look like a Bell hater.

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself. So to make statements that he needs to prove himself are silly. Droughns didn't prove himself before he was given an opportunity. Give him the ball and see what he can do. Then make your analysis. But to date we've only seen a few heavy carries games in limited form. Any good RB needs to be given the ball 20+ on a week in week out basis before you can say they can or can't handle the load. Bell has never been given that chance.

Lastly, for those that think the Broncos are feeling Dayne is their guy, look at the contract he just signed. It's back up money. It's not the type of deal that says "you're our guy". So either they are going to give Bell a real chance or they plan on making another move in FA or the draft.

With the success he's had in limited carries it's clear he's an explosive runner. Not allowing such a talent the chance to show what he can do is crazy IMO. You at least give him a chance and then decide. You always want to see what guys can do in "game situations". Some guys don't perform until the lights are on and you've got to see what they're made of then.

To an extent I agree, but Bell has to realize that for him "the lights are on" during minicamps and camp. He needs to forge a new impression in the mind of his head strong head coach.

 

[Family Matters]

For those bashing Bell, you are misguided. First off, he should want to be the starter. Like many have posted, why would a team want a guy that didn't want to be the starter? Criticizing him make you look like a Bell hater.

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself. So to make statements that he needs to prove himself are silly. Droughns didn't prove himself before he was given an opportunity. Give him the ball and see what he can do. Then make your analysis. But to date we've only seen a few heavy carries games in limited form. Any good RB needs to be given the ball 20+ on a week in week out basis before you can say they can or can't handle the load. Bell has never been given that chance.

Lastly, for those that think the Broncos are feeling Dayne is their guy, look at the contract he just signed. It's back up money. It's not the type of deal that says "you're our guy". So either they are going to give Bell a real chance or they plan on making another move in FA or the draft.

With the success he's had in limited carries it's clear he's an explosive runner. Not allowing such a talent the chance to show what he can do is crazy IMO. You at least give him a chance and then decide. You always want to see what guys can do in "game situations". Some guys don't perform until the lights are on and you've got to see what they're made of then.

To an extent I agree, but Bell has to realize that for him "the lights are on" during minicamps and camp. He needs to forge a new impression in the mind of his head strong head coach.

I know what you mean but some guys just do well in game situations while not so much in practice. The signs are there however and to ignore them is what I find puzzelling by Shanny. Clearly there is something else going on. I wonder if there's something we haven't heard about?

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

If you can't produce in Denver, then where can you produce?

 

[Banger]

If you can't produce in Denver,  then where can you produce?

he has produced in denver 173-921-5.3 8 tds.

 

[Kirby]

If you can't produce in Denver, then where can you produce?

Canada

 

[Bri]

If you can't produce in Denver, then where can you produce?

If he didn't whine I'd almost feel bad for him. He's probably been dying to start/ "be the man" since he was drafted.

 

[SSOG]

I like Bell a lot, I am a Denver homer....but Bell isperfect in the role that he has. Better in moderation.

I absolutely agree, but if he goes out and outperforms all the other RBs in training camps and preseason, then he'll be the starter. Shanny's very equitable about that sort of thing.

For those bashing Bell, you are misguided. First off, he should want to be the starter. Like many have posted, why would a team want a guy that didn't want to be the starter? Criticizing him make you look like a Bell hater.

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself. So to make statements that he needs to prove himself are silly. Droughns didn't prove himself before he was given an opportunity. Give him the ball and see what he can do. Then make your analysis. But to date we've only seen a few heavy carries games in limited form. Any good RB needs to be given the ball 20+ on a week in week out basis before you can say they can or can't handle the load. Bell has never been given that chance.

Lastly, for those that think the Broncos are feeling Dayne is their guy, look at the contract he just signed. It's back up money. It's not the type of deal that says "you're our guy". So either they are going to give Bell a real chance or they plan on making another move in FA or the draft.

With the success he's had in limited carries it's clear he's an explosive runner. Not allowing such a talent the chance to show what he can do is crazy IMO. You at least give him a chance and then decide. You always want to see what guys can do in "game situations". Some guys don't perform until the lights are on and you've got to see what they're made of then.

Ummm... Denver's last two thousand-yard rushers both made the veteran minimum salary. Denver's last THREE leading rushers were all let go rather than increase their pay, and were replaced by backs making "backup money". Ron Dayne's salary is CARTOON money by recent Denver standards.

I know what you mean but some guys just do well in game situations while not so much in practice. The signs are there however and to ignore them is what I find puzzelling by Shanny. Clearly there is something else going on. I wonder if there's something we haven't heard about?

Tatum Bell *doesn't* do well past 10-12 carries in game situations, though. He averaged 6.16 ypc on his first 10 carries of games last year, and 2.93 ypc on every carry after that. IN GAME SITUATIONS. These are the signs that are there, and trust me, Shanahan isn't ignoring them.

 

[mbuehner]

This offense doesnt run well without a bruising back. As of now they dont have one. Buyer beware.

 

[Banger]

I like Bell a lot, I am a Denver homer....but Bell isperfect in the role that he has. Better in moderation.

I absolutely agree, but if he goes out and outperforms all the other RBs in training camps and preseason, then he'll be the starter. Shanny's very equitable about that sort of thing.

For those bashing Bell, you are misguided. First off, he should want to be the starter. Like many have posted, why would a team want a guy that didn't want to be the starter? Criticizing him make you look like a Bell hater.

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself. So to make statements that he needs to prove himself are silly. Droughns didn't prove himself before he was given an opportunity. Give him the ball and see what he can do. Then make your analysis. But to date we've only seen a few heavy carries games in limited form. Any good RB needs to be given the ball 20+ on a week in week out basis before you can say they can or can't handle the load. Bell has never been given that chance.

Lastly, for those that think the Broncos are feeling Dayne is their guy, look at the contract he just signed. It's back up money. It's not the type of deal that says "you're our guy". So either they are going to give Bell a real chance or they plan on making another move in FA or the draft.

With the success he's had in limited carries it's clear he's an explosive runner. Not allowing such a talent the chance to show what he can do is crazy IMO. You at least give him a chance and then decide. You always want to see what guys can do in "game situations". Some guys don't perform until the lights are on and you've got to see what they're made of then.

Ummm... Denver's last two thousand-yard rushers both made the veteran minimum salary. Denver's last THREE leading rushers were all let go rather than increase their pay, and were replaced by backs making "backup money". Ron Dayne's salary is CARTOON money by recent Denver standards.

I know what you mean but some guys just do well in game situations while not so much in practice. The signs are there however and to ignore them is what I find puzzelling by Shanny. Clearly there is something else going on. I wonder if there's something we haven't heard about?

Tatum Bell *doesn't* do well past 10-12 carries in game situations, though. He averaged 6.16 ypc on his first 10 carries of games last year, and 2.93 ypc on every carry after that. IN GAME SITUATIONS. These are the signs that are there, and trust me, Shanahan isn't ignoring them.

These #'s past 10-12 carries that people keep throwing around are HIGHLY misleading. The # of times that Bell exceeded 12 carries last year was 7 and the totals were, 13, 15, 13, 14, 16, 17 and 17. So of 173 carries, 27 were the greater than 12 variety which is 15% of the overall carries. It's not as if he runs for 26 times a game and the 1st 12 are outstanding and the last 14 duds. He never had more than 17 carries in a game (those were the last two games) the entire year last year so this stat is being way overblown due to the statistical insignifigance (he could be kneeling on the ball at the end of the game on a couple of those carries).Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry. It's meaningless. What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

 

[joffer]

If you can't produce in Denver,  then where can you produce?

If he didn't whine

link?

 

[P Boy]

Secondly, when has he been given the chance to be the man? Two years ago he played with Droughns. Last year with Anderson. But he has never been given the chance to be the man himself.

You don't wait to be given the chance to be the man in DEN, you take the chance. The reason he was behind Droughns (aside from injuries his rookie year) and Anderson is that both those guys showed Shanahan that they could be dependable productive RBs. Don't you think if Bell had just shown that he could be as productive - not more productive - and by productive, that means in all phases of the game including blocking & receiving - but just as good, that he wouldn't have the job in his pocket right now? He's younger, has great speed, and was signed for a longer committment than the other 2. That he couldn't displace either of those guys ought to be worrying any Bell owner.

 

[P Boy]

Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry. It's meaningless. What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

You may take that. Shanahan won't with his featured RB. A dropoff of over 3 ypc is immense - almost unfathomable, regardless of how many carries it is and what the situation is.

 

[Banger]

Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry.  It's meaningless.  What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

You may take that. Shanahan won't with his featured RB. A dropoff of over 3 ypc is immense - almost unfathomable, regardless of how many carries it is and what the situation is.

My point is that people are focusing on this "dropoff" but I don't think that's the real issue. I think the issue is that he is totally feast or famine and the 12+ run stat is meaningless. I went through his carries last year and he carried for negative yards 13 times, 0 yards 18 times and 1-2 yards 54 times. So for 85 of 173 carries (49%) he got 2 yards or less. MA's % was 37% and I think anyone that watched the Bronc's know that MA was the short yardage guy and the guy that teams were looking to stop on 1st/2nd and Bell often came in on 3rd and long which made it easier to break a long one. So for 1/2 of Bell's carries to get 2 yards or less when the down/distance were often in situations where he could succeed is appallling. The # of times Bell carried between 3-5 yards was 38 which equates to only 22% of his carries contrast this with Anderson 87/239 (36%). This I believe is the issue that Shanny has with him. If you look at the box scores these 0, 1, -1 carry stats are all throughout the game it just happens that on the 7th or 9th run he runs for 32 yards and the YPC looks great but as a coach who is looking for a back to consistently move the chains and pick up 4 yards on 1st, 4 yards on 2nd to leave the team in a 3rd and short, he's not your guy. Until he proves that he can grind out consistent positive yards he will not be the solo back.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The thing that amazes me here is that to get his carries Bell is usually only in 20 to 25 plays to get his 13 or so carries. How can a young, incredibly trained athlete tire with so few plays? The tireing explanation just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry.  It's meaningless.  What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

You may take that. Shanahan won't with his featured RB. A dropoff of over 3 ypc is immense - almost unfathomable, regardless of how many carries it is and what the situation is.

My point is that people are focusing on this "dropoff" but I don't think that's the real issue. I think the issue is that he is totally feast or famine and the 12+ run stat is meaningless. I went through his carries last year and he carried for negative yards 13 times, 0 yards 18 times and 1-2 yards 54 times. So for 85 of 173 carries (49%) he got 2 yards or less. MA's % was 37% and I think anyone that watched the Bronc's know that MA was the short yardage guy and the guy that teams were looking to stop on 1st/2nd and Bell often came in on 3rd and long which made it easier to break a long one. So for 1/2 of Bell's carries to get 2 yards or less when the down/distance were often in situations where he could succeed is appallling. The # of times Bell carried between 3-5 yards was 38 which equates to only 22% of his carries contrast this with Anderson 87/239 (36%). This I believe is the issue that Shanny has with him. If you look at the box scores these 0, 1, -1 carry stats are all throughout the game it just happens that on the 7th or 9th run he runs for 32 yards and the YPC looks great but as a coach who is looking for a back to consistently move the chains and pick up 4 yards on 1st, 4 yards on 2nd to leave the team in a 3rd and short, he's not your guy. Until he proves that he can grind out consistent positive yards he will not be the solo back.

I tend to give greater credence to this explanation than to the tireing one. I suspect the ypc after 12 is a statistical anomoly, but that Shanahan just does not like this inconsistency you and others have pointed to. Pony Boy made a very similar observation about Quentin Griffen not so long back. At the time many were predicting his ascendence, but Pony pointed out this problem and predicted Q-dog would have to become Barry Sanders someplace other than in Denver. Shanny hates negative yards. Makes his veins pop and his little Touche` Turtle shaped head go all red.

 

[Bri]

If you can't produce in Denver,  then where can you produce?

If he didn't whine

link?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=230841

 

[cstu]

Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry. It's meaningless. What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

You may take that. Shanahan won't with his featured RB. A dropoff of over 3 ypc is immense - almost unfathomable, regardless of how many carries it is and what the situation is.

My point is that people are focusing on this "dropoff" but I don't think that's the real issue. I think the issue is that he is totally feast or famine and the 12+ run stat is meaningless. I went through his carries last year and he carried for negative yards 13 times, 0 yards 18 times and 1-2 yards 54 times. So for 85 of 173 carries (49%) he got 2 yards or less. MA's % was 37% and I think anyone that watched the Bronc's know that MA was the short yardage guy and the guy that teams were looking to stop on 1st/2nd and Bell often came in on 3rd and long which made it easier to break a long one. So for 1/2 of Bell's carries to get 2 yards or less when the down/distance were often in situations where he could succeed is appallling. The # of times Bell carried between 3-5 yards was 38 which equates to only 22% of his carries contrast this with Anderson 87/239 (36%). This I believe is the issue that Shanny has with him. If you look at the box scores these 0, 1, -1 carry stats are all throughout the game it just happens that on the 7th or 9th run he runs for 32 yards and the YPC looks great but as a coach who is looking for a back to consistently move the chains and pick up 4 yards on 1st, 4 yards on 2nd to leave the team in a 3rd and short, he's not your guy. Until he proves that he can grind out consistent positive yards he will not be the solo back.

I tend to give greater credence to this explanation than to the tireing one. I suspect the ypc after 12 is a statistical anomoly, but that Shanahan just does not like this inconsistency you and others have pointed to. Pony Boy made a very similar observation about Quentin Griffen not so long back. At the time many were predicting his ascendence, but Pony pointed out this problem and predicted Q-dog would have to become Barry Sanders someplace other than in Denver. Shanny hates negative yards. Makes his veins pop and his little Touche` Turtle shaped head go all red.

Ok, I just pulled up the Data Dominator and sorted rushing yards on 1st and 2nd down outside of the opponent's 10 yard line. Here's what I got:

Mike Anderson - 180 for 872 yards (4.84), 3 TD

Tatum Bell - 128 for 692 (5.41), 2 TD

On 3rd downs outside the opponent's 10 yard line, Bell did very well with 5+ yards to go (9 for 117 (13.0 YPC), 3 TD) but not with 4 or less yard to go (16 for 40 (2.5 YPC), 0 TD).

Now before you rush off and say how terrible Bell is on 3rd and short compared to Anderson, Mike was only 14 for 37 (2.64) 0 TD.

Both MA and Bell has 9 first downs, MA on 16 carries and Bell on 14.

Where MA excelled was inside the 10 yard line with 4 or less yards to go where he was 25 for 48 (1.92 YPC) and 10 TD's and 4 first downs. Bell only carried the ball 6 times for 3 yards with 2 TD's.

However, inside the 10 yard line with 5 or more yards to go, Bell was actually better than MA:

Bell - 10 for 28 (2.8 YPC), 1 TD

MA - 9 for 17 (1.89), 0 TD

 

[Banger]

Hey I'll take a guy that runs at a 6.X clip for 12 carries and gets 2 yards on the 13th carry.  It's meaningless.  What's more relevant to me is the number of positive or 4+ ypc runs as opposed to running for 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 32 which is equiv to a 6.3 average.

You may take that. Shanahan won't with his featured RB. A dropoff of over 3 ypc is immense - almost unfathomable, regardless of how many carries it is and what the situation is.

My point is that people are focusing on this "dropoff" but I don't think that's the real issue. I think the issue is that he is totally feast or famine and the 12+ run stat is meaningless. I went through his carries last year and he carried for negative yards 13 times, 0 yards 18 times and 1-2 yards 54 times. So for 85 of 173 carries (49%) he got 2 yards or less. MA's % was 37% and I think anyone that watched the Bronc's know that MA was the short yardage guy and the guy that teams were looking to stop on 1st/2nd and Bell often came in on 3rd and long which made it easier to break a long one. So for 1/2 of Bell's carries to get 2 yards or less when the down/distance were often in situations where he could succeed is appallling. The # of times Bell carried between 3-5 yards was 38 which equates to only 22% of his carries contrast this with Anderson 87/239 (36%). This I believe is the issue that Shanny has with him. If you look at the box scores these 0, 1, -1 carry stats are all throughout the game it just happens that on the 7th or 9th run he runs for 32 yards and the YPC looks great but as a coach who is looking for a back to consistently move the chains and pick up 4 yards on 1st, 4 yards on 2nd to leave the team in a 3rd and short, he's not your guy. Until he proves that he can grind out consistent positive yards he will not be the solo back.

I tend to give greater credence to this explanation than to the tireing one. I suspect the ypc after 12 is a statistical anomoly, but that Shanahan just does not like this inconsistency you and others have pointed to. Pony Boy made a very similar observation about Quentin Griffen not so long back. At the time many were predicting his ascendence, but Pony pointed out this problem and predicted Q-dog would have to become Barry Sanders someplace other than in Denver. Shanny hates negative yards. Makes his veins pop and his little Touche` Turtle shaped head go all red.

Ok, I just pulled up the Data Dominator and sorted rushing yards on 1st and 2nd down outside of the opponent's 10 yard line. Here's what I got:

Mike Anderson - 180 for 872 yards (4.84), 3 TD

Tatum Bell - 128 for 692 (5.41), 2 TD

On 3rd downs outside the opponent's 10 yard line, Bell did very well with 5+ yards to go (9 for 117 (13.0 YPC), 3 TD) but not with 4 or less yard to go (16 for 40 (2.5 YPC), 0 TD).

Now before you rush off and say how terrible Bell is on 3rd and short compared to Anderson, Mike was only 14 for 37 (2.64) 0 TD.

Both MA and Bell has 9 first downs, MA on 16 carries and Bell on 14.

Where MA excelled was inside the 10 yard line with 4 or less yards to go where he was 25 for 48 (1.92 YPC) and 10 TD's and 4 first downs. Bell only carried the ball 6 times for 3 yards with 2 TD's.

However, inside the 10 yard line with 5 or more yards to go, Bell was actually better than MA:

Bell - 10 for 28 (2.8 YPC), 1 TD

MA - 9 for 17 (1.89), 0 TD

Interesting stuff but how those YPC are acheived differ greatly and it's why you need to look inside the stats. If you look at the game logs for the 2 like I posted above Bell has many more carries for little or no yards while MA has more consistent 3+ yard runs but not the homerun 30+ yarders. So while Bells stats look solid the actual carries of 1, 0, 2, -2, 2, 0, 35 are masked by the solid looking 5.43 ypc. To me the 5.43 ypc doesn't look nearly as impressive when looking at the way he goes about getting it. I believe this lack of consistency is a big reason why the job is not Bell's even though you'd look at his gaudy YPC and think he should have the job hands down.

 

[cstu]

Interesting stuff but how those YPC are acheived differ greatly and it's why you need to look inside the stats. If you look at the game logs for the 2 like I posted above Bell has many more carries for little or no yards while MA has more consistent 3+ yard runs but not the homerun 30+ yarders. So while Bells stats look solid the actual carries of 1, 0, 2, -2, 2, 0, 35 are masked by the solid looking 5.43 ypc. To me the 5.43 ypc doesn't look nearly as impressive when looking at the way he goes about getting it. I believe this lack of consistency is a big reason why the job is not Bell's even though you'd look at his gaudy YPC and think he should have the job hands down.

It's tough to compare any RB to Mike Anderson, who is just about the most solid guy in the NFL at getting positive yardage. I think to some extent Bell is unfairly compared to MA and that he looks like more of an all-or-nothing guy than he actually is.

 

[Garts]

Interesting stuff but how those YPC are acheived differ greatly and it's why you need to look inside the stats. If you look at the game logs for the 2 like I posted above Bell has many more carries for little or no yards while MA has more consistent 3+ yard runs but not the homerun 30+ yarders. So while Bells stats look solid the actual carries of 1, 0, 2, -2, 2, 0, 35 are masked by the solid looking 5.43 ypc. To me the 5.43 ypc doesn't look nearly as impressive when looking at the way he goes about getting it. I believe this lack of consistency is a big reason why the job is not Bell's even though you'd look at his gaudy YPC and think he should have the job hands down.

It's tough to compare any RB to Mike Anderson, who is just about the most solid guy in the NFL at getting positive yardage. I think to some extent Bell is unfairly compared to MA and that he looks like more of an all-or-nothing guy than he actually is.

I think Rudi Johnson is the best in the NFL and getting SOME yards on every carry.

 

[cstu]

Interesting stuff but how those YPC are acheived differ greatly and it's why you need to look inside the stats. If you look at the game logs for the 2 like I posted above Bell has many more carries for little or no yards while MA has more consistent 3+ yard runs but not the homerun 30+ yarders. So while Bells stats look solid the actual carries of 1, 0, 2, -2, 2, 0, 35 are masked by the solid looking 5.43 ypc. To me the 5.43 ypc doesn't look nearly as impressive when looking at the way he goes about getting it. I believe this lack of consistency is a big reason why the job is not Bell's even though you'd look at his gaudy YPC and think he should have the job hands down.

It's tough to compare any RB to Mike Anderson, who is just about the most solid guy in the NFL at getting positive yardage. I think to some extent Bell is unfairly compared to MA and that he looks like more of an all-or-nothing guy than he actually is.

I think Rudi Johnson is the best in the NFL and getting SOME yards on every carry.

Droughns and Ronnie Brown are up there as well.

 

[Da Guru]

Bell is too frail to be a 20-25 carry RB.

Denver has documented that Bells wears down the more carries he gets. That is why Shanny limtis his carries.

 

[Couch Potato]

From KFFL January 24 of this year, quoting Shanahan:

Broncos | Shanahan discusses Bell

Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:23:40 -0800

Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan was asked Tuesday, Jan. 24, if RB Tatum Bell was not the team's every-down running back and he replied, "I'm not going to say not. We played him in that role because we thought it was best for our football team. If he proves he can carry it 25 times a game and still be productive, I'd love to have him in that role because he does have a lot of ability."