Tatum Bell running with first team (1 Viewer)

[lord_helmet]

This report appears to be a fake. No one else on any of the denver boards who saw training camp, also including Cecil Lammey, say Bell did anything spectacular. I question the validity of this report seriously.

I posted a similar doubt yesterday, somehow my post has disappeared

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I talked to both Jeff and Lee today and neither had heard the "ready to rush for 1,600 yards?" comment. Doesn't mean it wasn't said, just means the 2 main guys covering the Broncos for the RMN hadn't heard it.

 

[broncofan13000]

<---- Tatum Bell Keeper league owner, who got excited with yesterday's reports.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Comments from the denverbroncos.com forum for the Saturday AM practice.

RB - Tatum Bell still running into the backs of his blockers. Ive been watching him do this since he got here and its really getting old. Everything i saw from him was pretty unimpressive. He does not seem to practice to hard either, which i have heard complaints about in the past.Ron Dayne had a few decent runs, but did not stand out either. Had a cutback across the field run where he lost his shorts! IMO Dayne is still gonna be the guy though.Mike Bell looked pretty good, stood out more than anyone else i would say today. Had some decent runs when he got the chance.Cecil Sapp still running with the first team offense most of the time.Cedric Cobbs didnt stand out once.

Running Backs in general- None of these guys are special. Khan remarked that a camp scrub who we had not heard of before, #36 Marty Johnson, was the best of the bunch. As I remarked earlier when talking about the front seven against the run, none of these guys really consistently made plays in the run game. Mike Bell had nice cutback where he correctly read the DE playing wide. Tatum and Ron also each had like 1 nice play each where you could see them make a good decision. But on the whole, neither showed vision. Both of them were hesitant. There was a play where Dayne tried to cut back across the entire field and in a real game he would have lost big yardage. Just didnt see any vision or any quality play from this group this morning. Just wasnt there. Burnsie had some nice hits on these guys in the 9 on 7 run plays.

 

[Football Jones]

Welp, looks like Dayne had the first turn with the starters, afterall. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut it stays that way thru the first play of the regular season, as well (barring injury). What happens after that, though, is anybody's guess.

For what it's worth, I believe Dayne will be a top-10 RB this season. I used to be high on Bell, but I just don't think Shanny believes he can be a feature back (regardless of what he says/might say). Bell could be a decent starter for somebody else, however, IMO.

 

[Jack Ham & Eggs]

I don't think the original report was "fake". However, it is generally not a wise move to get too optimistic (or pessimistic for that matter) over any single report. The varying eyewitness accounts of Dayne and both Bells referenced in this thread alone illustrate the danger of putting too much stock into an individual source.

 

[qimqam]

This sucks! ...There is no way  that Bell will fall to late 2nd early 3rd now.

i agreeWith reports like this I can see owners drafting Bell early 2nd, late first.

Reports like this make Dayne a better value on draft day. Don't jump on the Bell wagon yet. Give it a few more practices first.

Listen ...I am a Giants and I don't care if dayne runs foe 200yds and 3 TDs a game in preseason (He always looks good when it doesn't count)I wouldn't waste a 10th round pick on this guy.

We are not talking about a small sampling here ... This guy has sucked for 6 years why is this all of a sudden going to change? I know it's the Broncos but the Giants have always been pretty good at running the ball and Dayne still did nothing.

As far as Cecils report on Dayne ...He mentioned Dayne was stumbling over his own 2 feet ...THIS IS A RON DAYNE TRADEMARK PEOPLE!!!!!!! If he is not going down on first contact it's only because he already went down before contact. He also mentioned Dayne Fumbled! So if this is a good day wait until you to see his bad days.

You obviously don't have to talk my word for it but why take the word of some hopeful Denver fans that haven't already been through the Ron Dayne Experience. Take a poll Giant Fans Only and save yourself a wasted pick.

 

[OneEastRiver]

This sucks! ...There is no way  that Bell will fall to late 2nd early 3rd now.

i agreeWith reports like this I can see owners drafting Bell early 2nd, late first.

Reports like this make Dayne a better value on draft day. Don't jump on the Bell wagon yet. Give it a few more practices first.

Listen ...I am a Giants and I don't care if dayne runs foe 200yds and 3 TDs a game in preseason (He always looks good when it doesn't count)I wouldn't waste a 10th round pick on this guy. We are not talking about a small sampling here ... This guy has sucked for 6 years why is this all of a sudden going to change? I know it's the Broncos but the Giants have always been pretty good at running the ball and Dayne still did nothing.

As far as Cecils report on Dayne ...He mentioned Dayne was stumbling over his own 2 feet ...THIS IS A RON DAYNE TRADEMARK PEOPLE!!!!!!! If he is not going down on first contact it's only because he already went down before contact. He also mentioned Dayne Fumbled! So if this is a good day wait until you to see his bad days.

You obviously don't have to talk my word for it but why take the word of some hopeful Denver fans that haven't already been through the Ron Dayne Experience. Take a poll Giant Fans Only and save yourself a wasted pick.

Dayne rarely fumbles the ball, so slow down. I'm a giants fan, and couldn't be more disgusted with Dayne's role while with the giants. He continued to be used in short yardage situations, with every run up the middle. In Denver, he wasn't used a "short yardage" back, and he actually found some success. Additionally, he has a competent offensive line in Denver that can keep the defense out of the backfield for at least a few seconds.Using Dayne's history with the Giants, to forecast his success with the Broncos is just silly.

Lastly, do you think Shannahan isn't aware of what Dayne accomplished (or didn't accomplish) with the Giants? The season is much too important to take a gamble on a guy who was a collegiate superstar, and then a complete bust for 5 years in the NFL. I would argue Shanny's opinion of Dayne couldn't be further from what you mention in your post above. We'll see whose right in a few short months.

 

[SSOG]

Hi SSOG,

I know you follow this closely. And I agree that one practice does not a star make.

But let's be hypothetical here and talk about Shanahan, not the players. Let's assume things stay pretty much like this with Bell looking good and Dayne just ok. What's your feel on which way Shanahan will go if things continue to look like they do today?

Do you think he'll make Bell a carry the load primary guy? Or do you think Dayne will still steal carries and maybe goalline stuff?

J

If Bell keeps looking good and Dayne keeps looking average all the way through the first couple games of the preseason, then I think Bell's getting the full load until he demonstrates he can't handle it. Whether Dayne gets goal-line looks is going to depend on who performs better in Goal-line drills in TCs and the preseason. If Dayne outperforms Bell, Dayne gets the touches. If not, Bell gets first crack at those, too, until he demonstrates in-season that he's not up to the task.

And 3 TD game Bell had was with Dayne in RBBC with him that day. Bell 3 Dayne 0 in RBBC last year.

Misleading. That wasn't an RBBC. That was the final game of the season, and Bell was going for 1,000 yards, so he was the #1, #2, and #3 option early in the game until it became readily apparent that he wasn't going to get his 1,000 yards, at which point Dayne started seeing some action. While it's encouraging that Bell got some short-yardage TDs, the fact that it was 3-0 is more a reflection on when Denver got into the red zone and not on the fact that they think that Bell was a better short yardage runner.

"Maybe Tatum (becomes) the No. 1 guy," Sundquist said. "I absolutely do (think he can). I think he runs with a little bit more power than people give him credit for. I've seen him turn his shoulder and take on a safety along the sidelines. No question about it -- he's got big-play, breakaway speed. He's got the vision and understands the cutback lanes, that sort of thing."

LINK

15 yards for one-sided quoting.

From the same article:

"I think we can rush the football really well again with Ron Dayne filling Mike Anderson's role, Tatum Bell coming in a rotational (role) or even those two battling it out," General Manager Ted Sundquist said.

It's a fluff piece from the team's official website. I don't know about on other teams, but the Broncos official site is always extremely complimentary of all players. The only way you're going to get some useful information from it is when it discusses what players *WILL* do, rather than what they might do. Or when it compares players to each other.

Different report per KFFL:

Broncos | Dayne receiving majority of reps

Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:11:24 -0700

Jeff Legwold, of the Rocky Mountain News, reports Denver Broncos RB Ron Dayne lined up most often with the starters during practice Friday, July 28, with RB Tatum Bell finding himself a step down the depth chart.

That's confusing, but my official stance is Jeff Legwold is the single best Broncos source ever. If every single reporter on the planet said Bell looked good and Dayne looked like rubbish, and Legwold said the opposite, I'd still believe Legwold.

This sucks! ...There is no way that Bell will fall to late 2nd early 3rd now.

i agreeWith reports like this I can see owners drafting Bell early 2nd, late first.

Reports like this make Dayne a better value on draft day. Don't jump on the Bell wagon yet. Give it a few more practices first.

Listen ...I am a Giants and I don't care if dayne runs foe 200yds and 3 TDs a game in preseason (He always looks good when it doesn't count)I wouldn't waste a 10th round pick on this guy. We are not talking about a small sampling here ... This guy has sucked for 6 years why is this all of a sudden going to change? I know it's the Broncos but the Giants have always been pretty good at running the ball and Dayne still did nothing.

As far as Cecils report on Dayne ...He mentioned Dayne was stumbling over his own 2 feet ...THIS IS A RON DAYNE TRADEMARK PEOPLE!!!!!!! If he is not going down on first contact it's only because he already went down before contact. He also mentioned Dayne Fumbled! So if this is a good day wait until you to see his bad days.

You obviously don't have to talk my word for it but why take the word of some hopeful Denver fans that haven't already been through the Ron Dayne Experience. Take a poll Giant Fans Only and save yourself a wasted pick.

While we're at it, let's ask some Arizona Fans if Thomas Jones will ever amount to anything, too.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Until this changes:

BellATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10   128 - 789 - 6.2ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20   45 - 132 - 2.9DayneATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10   50 - 244 - 4.9ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20   3 -  26 - 8.7

it's RBBC. Dayne's 11-20 stat isn't significant but Bell's is.

 

[qimqam]

While we're at it, let's ask some Arizona Fans if Thomas Jones will ever amount to anything, too.

Thomas Jones played 3 years in Arizona and his problem was injuries. Nobody can run in Arizona. Dayne had 5 years on a very good running team and averaged under well under 4 yds per carry

 

[SSOG]

Thomas Jones played 3 years in Arizona and his problem was injuries. Nobody can run in Arizona. Dayne had 5 years on a very good running team and averaged under well under 4 yds per carry

First off, the Giants aren't a "very good running team". In the time Dayne was there, they ranked 11th, 15th, 14th, 28th, and 11th in rushing. I'd call that a "barely above average" rushing team. And "barely above average" is pretty bad when you have one of the top-5 RBs in the entire NFL in Tiki Barber. Also, interesingly enough... the season that they ranked 28th in rushing was ALSO the season they deactivated Dayne for every game.If you want to see what a "very good running team" looks like, I could pull up the rankings of another team. One that resides in the AFC West and has a horse on its helmet.

Gee, doesn't Ron Dayne play in the AFC West for a team with a horse on its helmet? What a coincidence.

Second off, the Giants never put Dayne in a position to succeed. It's more than just miscasting him as a runner, it's completely misutilizing him and playing him in the stupidest way possible. They ran him straight into the line on short yardage carries, and never gave him a time to establish a rhythm. They emphasised the weak points of his games rather than playing to his strong suits. Their worst sin of all, though, was that they involved him in such a small percentage of their playbook. They'd only have 4 or 5 plays that they'd run when Dayne was on the field (as opposed to hundreds with Tiki Barber). Giants players have told stories about how the opposing team would frequently call New York's play *BY NAME* when they sent Ron Dayne onto the field. I don't care who you are- if the other team knows with close to 100% certainty what play you are going to be running, you will fail.

Seriously, though, what it comes down to is this. Mike Shanahan saw the exact same thing that you saw on the film from Ron Dayne- and then some, since he has access to far more film than you do. He also saw everything Dayne did last year, both in practices and in games. He also knows a heckuva lot more about football than anyone on this site. And he let his leading rusher walk while giving Dayne a 3-year contract that pays a million a year. It's too bad he doesn't read the FBGs.com message board, so that he could see your posts and realize what a huge mistake that contract was.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

SSOG wrote:

Seriously, though, what it comes down to is this. Mike Shanahan saw the exact same thing that you saw on the film from Ron Dayne- and then some, since he has access to far more film than you do. He also saw everything Dayne did last year, both in practices and in games. He also knows a heckuva lot more about football than anyone on this site. And he let his leading rusher walk while giving Dayne a 3-year contract that pays a million a year. It's too bad he doesn't read the FBGs.com message board, so that he could see your posts and realize what a huge mistake that contract was.

Best post of the thread.These Bell honks and Dayne haters can't seem to assimlate what you discerningly laid out in a short paragraph. RBs come and go in Denver, but Shanahan is the constant. And he knows who fits his system.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

A million per year is back up money. Doesn't mean much.

 

[SSOG]

A million per year is back up money. Doesn't mean much.

Not in Denver. If I'm recalling correctly, a million per year is more than any featured RB in Denver has made since Terrell Davis signed his huge contract in... 1997 or 1998. It's more than Clinton Portis made (minimum salary + $2 million bonus over 4 years = about $800,000 per year), it's more than Mike Anderson made (he played for the veteran minimum last year, and was cut because his cap hit "jumped" to just over $2 million this season), it's more than Reuben Droughns made (veteran minimum again), it's more than Olandis Gary made (I believe he never signed anything other than his rookie contract- which wasn't much for a 4th round pick in 1998). It's also, if I recall correctly, more than Tatum Bell is making (although it'd be pretty close, either way).A million per year in Denver means EVERYTHING. It's not the money that's important- it's the fact that they let their leading rusher go and made resigning Dayne one of their biggest priorities this offseason.

 

[ProdigyofParcells]

I was just going to do the same thing ...

From the Blogger:

July 29, 2006, 08:38

Broncos :: RB

Broncos Counting On RB Dayne To Revive Career

Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News - FULL ARTICLE

Ron Dayne, the 11th pick in the 2000 draft, was labeled a major disappointment during five seasons with the New York Giants. Dayne's first real chance at reviving his pro career finally appears to be at hand. The release of Mike Anderson during the offseason has opened a spot in the Broncos backfield. And while much of the attention nationally has been focused on Tatum Bell's breakaway ability, it's Dayne who consistently has been getting the first turns with the No. 1 offense, including Friday during the initial two-a-day practices of training camp.

July 29, 2006, 08:47

Broncos :: RB

Bell Is Ready To Be No. 1 Back

Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News - FULL ARTICLE

While the plan at the moment is Tatum Bell and Ron Dayne will divide the carries, it is Dayne who lined up most often with the starters during offseason camps as well as Friday. Tatum would like to be the one playing on first down, second down and sometimes on third down. During the offseason he said, "I feel like I am the man, I just have to keep showing them. When my chance comes, I'll be able to prove it to them." But Bell, whom coach Mike Shanahan said has an "urgency about him right now," again finds himself a step down the depth chart.

Tatum Bell + Mike Anderson exit = Ahman Green and Levens exit in GB?

 

[wannabee]

Broncos | Shanahan discusses running back competition

Published Sat Jul 29 9:11:00 p.m. ET 2006

(KFFL) Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan discussed the team's running back competition after the team's afternoon practice Saturday, July 29. "With the running backs, you really can't tell until you put the players in live situations or try to get them a lot of reps, everybody is getting some work. A young kid I saw you guys recognizing (was) Bell RB Mike Bell) out there. He looked pretty impressive today for a young kid coming in. He made a few cuts that impressed some of the veterans, and you always like to see that."

 

[ChampBailey24]

This is fake. XY9 sports doesn't exist and I found nothing about a sport writer named Jay Lufkin on google.

 

[Jack Ham & Eggs]

This is fake. XY9 sports doesn't exist and I found nothing about a sport writer named Jay Lufkin on google.

That's obviously a strong allegation, but I can find no corroboration of their existence either. Strange indeed.

 

[Armando]

If you believe Bell will be the starter, please specify whether you mean Tatum or Mike. Or even Tinker. TIA

 

[Joe Bryant]

Putting this on hold here until we find out more on the source.

I've PM'd BDK and I'm sure he'll get back to us.

J