tombonneau
Footballguy
Results were meh due to inept offense, but I was very pleased with his usage. I think he is possibly #2 target when OBJ comes back. B-Marsh was non-factor.
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TE Evan Engram, JAX (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Conan Troutman
Footballguy
Yeah he looked really good, just Eli sucked and they couldn't get the offense going at all without OBJ or a running game. Still, he put up okay stats, which is very promising as far as his weekly floor is concerned. Hopefully the Giants offense gets back to normal and we get to see what his ceiling might look like.
groin pains
Footballguy
Thoughts on Engram against this Detroit defense tonight?
packer_junkie
Footballguy
I like engram that player ALOT.... but i have no idea what to expect from the NYG offense & Eli in particular. I wouldn't be surprised if they scored 30, I wouldn't be surprised if they scored 9. I wouldn't be surprised if Marshall had 12 targets or 2. Same with OBJ. My rosy classes say 5-71 TD for engram... but if he had 2-13 would I be surprised? Nope.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Came up just short of giving me a miracle win tonight but I'm gettin' HYPED.
Of course, Eli may be dead soon.
Of course, Eli may be dead soon.
BigBlue_RI
Footballguy
Encouraged by what I saw with him, but yeah--Eli may be destroyed by week 6. I'm going to the Charger game Oct 8. I may be witness to Eli's demise.
spider321
Footballguy
If not for an outstanding play by the CB to hit the ball with his helmet just as Engram was securing the pass, he would have had 2 TD's tonight.
On another series, he had a catch on the 3 yard-line, but the safety was right there to make the tackle.
It is very encouraging to see Eli look his way so often near the end zone in only his second NFL game.
If you haven't seen him, he's really a big receiver(6'3, 234, 4.42), not a TE, and once he gets it figured out the LB's will be too slow and the DB's will be too small to cover him.
He is the Giants' #2 receiver right now, and the kid looks like he could be special.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
so in redraft, all these WR injuries a positive or a negative for Engram?
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
Yeah. Seemed odd in second half with all the wr injuries he did nothing. I saw they were so desperate for bodies that he was spread out wide at the end so maybe that was part of the problem.
The Frankman
Footballguy
I'm a Giants fan who was watching the game, so I thought I'd chime in. The Giants were down to 1 WR and had to line up Engram and 3rd TE Jerrell Adams at WR, which meant he was either a) doubled with a LB and safety or b) single covered by top CB Casey Heyward. The fact he couldn't line up at TE or in the backfield (where the Giants can scheme mismatches for him) really hurt him.
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montana_grizzly_bears
Footballguy
What is the general consensus going forward now that they won't have their top2-3 wr's out on the field. Bonanza of targets or waste away in coverage?
Gandalf
Footballguy
I don't know when but I expect Evan Engram to be the #1 overall TE for a couple of years during his career.
Titanium
Footballguy
So Engram did really well against the Denver defense, when they should have known the ball was probably going his way. Engram appears to be poised for a potentially great season now with OBJ and Marshall out. I'm wondering what his performance last night says about his dynasty prospects? Next season, the Giants will probably field OBJ, Shepard and Engram as their 3 top passing options. How is everyone viewing his long-term potential at this stage? He currently sits as TE #5 in my league.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
dcgangstas
Footballguy
The kid looks like the 2nd coming of Jordan Reed. Without the health issues (at least not yet).
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Engram played on 38 offensive snaps (70%) 7 targets 5 receptions 82 yards 1 TD
Rhett Ellison played on 35 offensive snaps (65%) no targets.
Adams played on 11 offensive snaps (20%) 1 target 1 reception 6 yards
LaCosse played on 9 offensive snaps (17%) 1 target 0 receptions
I am guessing that Engram split out as a WR on a lot of these plays while Ellison played more in line TE. Both were on the field for about 1/3 of the offensive plays and two other TE played significant snaps as well.
The Giants were more effective running the ball in this game than they have been in the previous five games and the additional use of TEs may be part of that.
I only saw the end of the game as we had company last night and were watching something else.
Rhett Ellison played on 35 offensive snaps (65%) no targets.
Adams played on 11 offensive snaps (20%) 1 target 1 reception 6 yards
LaCosse played on 9 offensive snaps (17%) 1 target 0 receptions
I am guessing that Engram split out as a WR on a lot of these plays while Ellison played more in line TE. Both were on the field for about 1/3 of the offensive plays and two other TE played significant snaps as well.
The Giants were more effective running the ball in this game than they have been in the previous five games and the additional use of TEs may be part of that.
I only saw the end of the game as we had company last night and were watching something else.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
I watched the game. Giants did alot of 2 TE and even 3 TE in the 1st half. Started running it more conventional after the half.
And yes, Ellison was the blocking TE alot while Engram lined up in the slot and the Y. As the game progressed into the 4th we saw more of Engram at TE. He didn't do terribly when he did block, no whiffs at least.
And yes, Ellison was the blocking TE alot while Engram lined up in the slot and the Y. As the game progressed into the 4th we saw more of Engram at TE. He didn't do terribly when he did block, no whiffs at least.
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tombonneau
Footballguy
Really nice to see my YouTube highlight scouting abilities finally pay off.
To me he looked like a Reed/Hernandez move guy who would flourish on the right team. So far so good. Props to anyone else out there who took him over OJ in dynasty.
According to the ubiquitous Verizon commercials you should have been watching the game on your phone while Chan was on the TV...
I'm surprised there isn't more excitement about this guy. Even before the injuries to the Giants WRs, he was putting up usable back end TE1 numbers, with more consistency (aside from last week) than most options out there. For dynasty, I have him at #3 and I don't see how you can have him lower than #4 if you have Ertz top 3. TE is a wasteland and a player like this who can be an actual difference maker at the position has to be very valuable. I feel like he is still being undervalued - I think on the Dynasty Blueprint podcast last week they were briefly talking about him and someone said that they wouldn't pay a 2018 first rounder for him (I could be wrong but that's my recollection) which seemed weird to me. Owners probably already paid a late first this year, he's already producing well in a terrible landscape for TEs - why would you give him up for just a first rounder (unless you knew it was going to be top 3 or something)?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Can't speak for the DB guys but if they think that, then yeah they are under valuing him.
Perhaps part of it is that the Giants haven't been winning, so less interest in the team and their players.
I was discussing this in dynasty value thread though where someone was talking about trading Ertz for Engram plus 1st round pick and I thought that was selling Engram short. Ertz has played great but I don't really consider him a better TE than Engram at all. He is just further along in his development and in a better situation right now. Wentz really trusts Ertz.
Anyhow I mentioned I wouldn't be looking to trade Engram at all right now with the Giants WR injured and Engram produced good numbers, so yeah my mind hasn't changed at all in regards to how valuable Engram is and can be. Been very high on him even before the draft.
Maybe the blueprint guys discussion was after Engram last week? When a guy puts up a doughnut lots of folks shy away. Not that they should in a dynasty format.
Perhaps part of it is that the Giants haven't been winning, so less interest in the team and their players.
I was discussing this in dynasty value thread though where someone was talking about trading Ertz for Engram plus 1st round pick and I thought that was selling Engram short. Ertz has played great but I don't really consider him a better TE than Engram at all. He is just further along in his development and in a better situation right now. Wentz really trusts Ertz.
Anyhow I mentioned I wouldn't be looking to trade Engram at all right now with the Giants WR injured and Engram produced good numbers, so yeah my mind hasn't changed at all in regards to how valuable Engram is and can be. Been very high on him even before the draft.
Maybe the blueprint guys discussion was after Engram last week? When a guy puts up a doughnut lots of folks shy away. Not that they should in a dynasty format.
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JetMaxx
Footballguy
I’m proud to say that I did!Really nice to see my YouTube highlight scouting abilities finally pay off.
To me he looked like a Reed/Hernandez move guy who would flourish on the right team. So far so good. Props to anyone else out there who took him over OJ in dynasty.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
This seemed like a no-brainer to me on draft day. OJ was never dominant and went to a team with an established TE and Mike Evans already in place. Tack on that he's a good blocker and he's much more likely to kept in when they play 12. I took Engram over OJ in three dynasty leagues and never really considered not doing so.tombonneau said:Really nice to see my YouTube highlight scouting abilities finally pay off.
To me he looked like a Reed/Hernandez move guy who would flourish on the right team. So far so good. Props to anyone else out there who took him over OJ in dynasty.
Conan Troutman
Footballguy
Yeah Howard might have been the better allround NFL prospect, but in fantasy it's about catching passes and Engram was way more polished in that regard. Plus it's not that he can't block, most scouting reports described him as servicable in that regard (and it turned out to be pretty accurate) and he had a crazy 40 time - no idea why there wasn't more hype. Probably because Howard is 6'6" so everybody assumed he would be the next Gronk - which he still can become, but maybe he just ends up a really good player like Bennett but nothing to get excited about for fantasy purposes. But Engram is more like a rich man's Jimmy Graham, which is just as good if not better.
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JFS171
Footballguy
Someone talk me out of considering Engram a sell high. Obviously sell high is relative ... you would want a pretty penny. Engram's on a record setting pace for a rookie TE. He tested extremely well from a metrics perspective, and was a 1st round pick. These are all big check marks in his favor.
However, the Giants are without OBJ right now, who's by far their biggest offensive playmaker. They're also missing their WR2 and WR3 in Marshall and Shepard, the latter of which is due back soon. The RB position for the Giants isn't exactly demanding touches.
It's plausible to me that Engram's market share of the offense is at its peak. Now he's 23, and producing incredibly well, but ... would you entertain sell high offers, or would you hold on for dear life?
However, the Giants are without OBJ right now, who's by far their biggest offensive playmaker. They're also missing their WR2 and WR3 in Marshall and Shepard, the latter of which is due back soon. The RB position for the Giants isn't exactly demanding touches.
It's plausible to me that Engram's market share of the offense is at its peak. Now he's 23, and producing incredibly well, but ... would you entertain sell high offers, or would you hold on for dear life?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, figured I ought to stop in and own up to completely overestimating Marshall and his impact on Engram. I whiffed on that about as badly as one can.
Great call by all those pimping Engram. He’s having an awesome year.
Great call by all those pimping Engram. He’s having an awesome year.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Are you talking from a dynasty perspective? I'd probably hold regardless. Sure, his market share over the past two weeks (31%, 37%) is likely unsustainable in the very long-term but I think he could benefit from someone else drawing attention. I have to assume he's drawing a lot of attention from opposing defenses right now although I don't have the numbers to back that up.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
Its going to totally depend on if they hit with there next qb or not. Him, Odell, & Sheppard will be a huge part of that qbs growth but some quarterbacks just suck.
JFS171
Footballguy
Yeah - that's the flip side of the argument. He's producing now with a huge market share and a lot of defensive attention. The market share likely drops when OBJ returns and the Giants field a competent running game, but Engram could also be more efficient with a smaller share when he's not the focus of the defense.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Hold! I drafted him at the end of the 1st because I wanted him on my team so I could bring home that trophy not to sell.
Tex
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
I have Kelce, ASJ, Eifert, Walker, and Fleener and I still can’t see myself selling. He could have a Gates type of career.
Tex
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flapgreen
Footballguy
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Hilts
Footballguy
Even in a redraft, who would you sell him for? Gronkowski and Ertz are the only clear upgrades. Yes I think he's with Kelce at this point. If you have another good TE, go ahead and sell for another position, but you're probably better off keeping this guy and selling your other option.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hold at all costs.JFS171 said:
Yes the WRs being hurt has accelerated Engrams opportunity but I don't see why that will change because of Shephard returning to the line up. This is a good reason to keep Engram.
Fast forward to next year yes Beckham will be the top receiver there, but Engram will have a year under his belt and be a very big part of the offense, with a little less defensive attention in that scenario.
Every player has a price, but the offer would really have to blow me out of the water to consider moving Engram.
Long term the only things besides injury that could be issues is a coaching change and if Eli gets replaced by another QB. Both are possible negatives, but whoever the new coach is will still use Engram a lot. Its possible this could be a change that works out in Engrams favor. A worse QB than Eli would hurt the entire offense, but it still might not have much effect on Engrams production.
I don't really see any downside or reason to sell.
I own him in dynasty, and I just traded for him in a blockbuster trade in my standard scoring redraft league. Dude is a BALLER and seems pretty much uncoverable on his routes. Very excited to watch him the rest of this year and his career. He's only going to get better. Which is scary...
Biabreakable
Footballguy
What did you pay for him in trade?
Could be ueful for folks thinking about buying or selling.
Standard scoring redraft: I traded michael thomas and mccaffery for Jordan howard and Engram.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Thats pretty strong. Basically McCaffrey or Thomas for him although from your point of view Howard upgrading from McCaffrey and giving up Thomas for Engram as perhaps a downgrade.
