The Frankman
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
TE Jonnu Smith, MIA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
Tanner9919
Footballguy
kick him to the curb. he's toast. NE offense is toast. I'll bet the Mac Attack gets grounded, benched for a backup. he's another of these not ready for primetime QBs.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Jonnu is a great blocker and that limits his chances in the offense. He's not getting gameplanned looks at other position and Henry is the MOVE TE so right now Henry is dominating the snaps/routes run.
Personally I dropped him several weeks ago. I was able to pick up Ertz when he was traded, but there have also been multiple other options I would prefer (such as Arnold, Conklin, Uzumah, Freiermuth, etc.) that should be/should have been available.
It is still so confusing how Jonnu production can be so minimal after the Pats gave him such a big free agent contract.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I mostly agree, but it's not totally his fault they have opted to make him more of a blocking TE and Henry more of a receiving TE the last few weeks. Smith hasn't run many routes (admittedly, maybe if he performed better he'd be more involved). As you said, based on what they are paying him, I bought into the hype that NE was going to up his usage and find ways to get the ball in his hands. Except his usage rate is the same as it was with the Titans . . . but without the red zone targets. The scuttlebutt to start the seasons was Smith was going to be McDaniels' wildcard in the deck, and that obviously hasn't happened. Maybe they start figuring ways for him to get more involved if the OL consistently plays better, but for now Smith does seem to be overpaid for what he is giving them / how they are using him.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Obviously Smith was disappointing this year, but I don’t think it was all his fault. I saw some game film in his time with the Titans, and he ran good routes, made some tough catches, was a red zone threat, and did well after the catch.
The Pats didn’t utilize him the same way the Titans did, and I don’t know if Tennessee’s skill position players or offensive sets played better to Jonnu’s strengths than NE.
If the Pats bring back O’Brien as OC, he was there when they installed the two TE concepts with Gronk and he who shall not be named. I don’t think Henry or Smith will ever be confused with Gronk and Hernandez, but it’s possible O’Brien could get more out of them than Josh did.
The Pats didn’t utilize him the same way the Titans did, and I don’t know if Tennessee’s skill position players or offensive sets played better to Jonnu’s strengths than NE.
If the Pats bring back O’Brien as OC, he was there when they installed the two TE concepts with Gronk and he who shall not be named. I don’t think Henry or Smith will ever be confused with Gronk and Hernandez, but it’s possible O’Brien could get more out of them than Josh did.
Boston
Footballguy
He looked lost out there and there were instances where he was a detriment to the team whether it was a drop or a penalty...now, I am not gonna exonerate the coaching staff but it was very obvious they had no faith in him...also, he never dominated in Tennessee...he definitely flashed in a big way but in 4 years he never had more than 450 yards receiving, only had 1 year with more than 35 receptions and one with more than 3 TDs...he looks the part and with his contract he's probably not going anywhere so hopefully they can get him squared away but as for this year he was a complete waste of a very big contract.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s weird. He looked good in TEN, and is a physical specimen. Coming into the season with Henry/Smith looked like the Pats would be absolutely dominant at the TE position, causing many to harken back to the Gronk/Hernandez days. Also seemed like the perfect recipe for a rookie passer to have not one, but two reliable move-TE who could both block in the run game.
I was among those people - Smith seemed like he was primed for a breakout season.
And instead it was
Last edited by a moderator:
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
That's fair. I guess I want to remain on optimist re: the potential value he represents in 2022.
Boston
Footballguy
I hear ya...I was fired-up when they signed him and thought he would thrive but it was a rocky year...hopefully they figure it out because he's not going anywhere with that contract.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Any guess as to what a “buy low” value purchase might be?
The Smith owner in my league was complaining about him recently - that’s usually a good indicator they’d be willing to move him. Maybe a 3rd? Or would that be a lowball?
Boston
Footballguy
Any guess as to what a “buy low” value purchase might be?
The Smith owner in my league was complaining about him recently - that’s usually a good indicator they’d be willing to move him. Maybe a 3rd? Or would that be a lowball?
I would go after Henry...he looks legit and IMO he was underutilized this past season...he went for 50-603-9 on only 75 targets...he should stay Mac's red zone guy but if he adds another couple of targets a game, he could be a far more reliable fantasy TE.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I had heard whispers of them trying to get creative to move him . . . ie throwing in a draft pick as sweetner to try to get someone to take on his contract. Something like Smith and a 2nd for the other team's 4th and a 6th. Who knows if that has any merit, if BB would actually consider it, and if NE might have to pay some of his salary to get rid of him. I still think they can get more out of him, but not low end WR1 money out of him.
Boston
Footballguy
I heard that as well...depending on how much salary cap it clears up it could be worth it but not sure anyone would be in a big rush to obtain him after that season...hopefully they can get him squared away...don't think he will ever be worth that contract but with his athleticism hopefully they can get something out of him other than jet sweeps.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I would too. But the Henry owner in my league is very happy with him. I asked him if he’d be interested in moving him last week & he said no. :(
I have Pitts, so it would be a purely depth move. Also thinking if Smith has a better year in ‘22 I could flip him.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am hoping there are more receiving options on the roster next year. But we say that every year. I think the receivers they have should realistically be fighting for playing time, not every down starters. They need a game changing receiver. Look at what Chase, Kupp, Hill, Deebo were doing to see how much impact they have. They either missed on, misused, or were not a great fit for Agholor. No one is going to take Agholor of their hands. Maybe he should be an outside guy to go along with the mystery WR1 that never seems to be on the roster. Borne and Meyers really should be WR3 and WR4 types. So Hunter probably shouldn't get the amount of targets some people are hoping for.
There are a couple of issues in ramping up the passing game. Even with McDaniels leaving, whoever the replacement is will not be bringing in a new playbook. The Pats will be using the existing playbook and having the OC pick from what's on the menu . . . not adding new recipes. The other issue is the team needs help in other areas. OT, CB, LB, S all come to mind. The defense got old and slow in a hurry, and against speedy receivers, RBs, and QBs, they looked borderline unable to stop those types at times. Hightower, Van Noy, and Collins didn't look like they did several years ago. Even Judon showed he doesn't have a great skill set beyond getting into the backfield . . . he doesn't play the run well, doesn't tackle all that well, often gives up the edge, and isn't great in coverage. Not sure what that makes him overall.
So while we might think a glaring need is a WR1, BB will likely look at those other areas as being more important than drafting an early round receiver. They don't have a ton of cap room, so not sure they will have much money to work with and may have to go dumpster diving for help at some of those spots.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
We would all like WR #1 but unless they figure out a way to trade for Ridley my guess is they add two more solid and affordable WRs (with one being a slot) for this year and address the other holes with high picks...looking at free agency there are some intriguing names in Chark, Crowder, Fuller, Cedric Wilson, Pringle, McKenzie, Kirk (probably a stretch moneywise), James Washington, MVS, Gage, Noah Brown and Berrios that may be a short-term and not expensive fix for 2022 and then you can try to score big in 2023 when they have a ton of cap space and/or are in a better position to use a #1 on WR...regardless of how they do it they do need to give Mac more weapons as what they have now is not acceptable.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That's probably the approach they will take, but I am not sure they will have any more success than they did with the guys currently on the roster. None of those guys listed are really true #1's (maybe Fuller could be a more reliable deep threat). The point being, they will stunt Mac's growth if they don't bring in more talented guys that can consistently get open and get separation. As far as getting a slot receiver, both Meyers and Bourne did a decent jab in underneath routes and in the slot, so I don't think that is a position of need (compared to other positions).
As I see it, since they don't have a go to receiver and a reliable deep threat, teams can play short zones, take away the middle of the field, or play man because they didn't take a ton of downfield shots. They can also stack the box more to attack the run game. Getting another receiver or two that duplicates the guys they already have does little to open up the defense. If they had an upgrade at receiver for mid to deep routes and outside the numbers, that would open up routes underneath and in the middle . . . meaning the Meyers / Bournes / Henrys / Smiths of the world could potentially be more effective.
RE: 2023 cap space. Yes, at the moment they have a lot of cap space, but they don't have a lot of players signed beyond this year. Only 25 players have contracts for 2023 . . . and they have about $110 million to work with to fill the roster.
Given their abysmal record for drafting receivers, I am not sure if the solution is burning an early draft pick or taking a guy in the middle rounds. They haven't had much success with either in many years (if ever). They have been able to find mid to late round guys (or undrafted players) that have become starters and key contributors at other positions. Maybe they should try again at an early WR pick (although BB would probably reject that idea).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not that this is the best spot to post this, but I have heard some talk on the boards and in the media that NE doesn't have a chance against the high-octane offenses in the league these days. That may or may not be true, but since 2000, 20 of the last 21 teams that scored 500 points in a season DID NOT win the SB that year (including the past 16). The last team that won it all scoring 500 or more points was the 2009 Saints. Maybe that means something, maybe it doesn't. But for the last decade+, the highest scoring teams generally don't go the distance.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Tom Curran (who I feel is as good as you get) was on the radio last week and said slot WR is what they need most on offense...he said both Bourne and Meyers don't fill that role and he felt for the Pats offense to work at its best they need a true slot...and I agree with this...one issue with regard to this is not only do you need a true slot but you need someone who can take an incredible amount of punishment as that is an off-shoot of how the Pats use that position...Welker and Edelman took more than their share of big time hits.
Boston
Footballguy
Short-term thinking...right now they probably don't but that is with a rookie QB and limited weapons...Mac will continue to develop and they will get more weapons...
As an aside I find more and more analysis (not yours) about the Pats based on short-term thinking and much of it is borderline foolish...it is as if the expectation was they were just gonna come out of post-Brady and continue to win titles or judged by that that level...they are rebuilding and headed in the right direction but there is still a way to go until they get to that level.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree that they would benefit from having a Welker or Edleman . . . but they probably could get by with who they have if they target other positions of need with their picks, dollars, and roster spots. Crowder would be a decent option, but he's going to be 29 and has been beat up 3 of the past 4 years. As you said, they need someone to sign up to be abused for not a lot of money. Those guys aren't easy to find.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I was pleasantly surprised how Mac did as a rookie. In general, they have some good young pieces moving forward. Another good draft and a couple of decent free agent signings and they should continue to improve. That being said, I can't see how they can let Jackson walk (not a lot of depth at CB), the LBers need to be faster, more dynamic, and much better sideline to sideline. McCourty played well but will be on his way out soon. Barmore should be a beast moving forward. No way to sugar coat it, the defense was a bit of a mirage . . . nowhere near as good against real teams at full strength. They beat up on bad teams with key players missing.
Offensively, the line could be a strength . . . or it could be a problem. They can probably get Brown back at a reasonable number. I have seen talk of them potentially trying to trade Wynn, with the motivation getting off his contract to free up space and getting Onwenu into the starting lineup. But there needs to be a longer-term plan at both tackle positions.
I think the offense they were running was good against certain teams but not a great match up against others. They couldn't really hand the keys to Mac and let him air it out and expect to win that way. Rookies shouldn't be put in that position in the first place, but their so-so talent at WR held the team back. Having White go down early didn't help, as Bolden played above his head for a while but came back down to earth.
Lazar keeps comparing Mac to Burrow in terms of college stats, pedigree, and upside. I didn't see a ton of either in college, but Burrow looked like he had a little more zip on his fastball and threw a good deep ball. I agree that too many people are already saying all the things Jones can't do and not enough people are discussing what he's already done in limited time and what he could become. I chuckle at people who have suggested he's already hit his ceiling.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
$25 million spent on Henry and Smith this year and 12-99-0 to show for it through 4 games. To add insult to injury, the offense played much better AFTER Smith went out and they played Cannon as a 6th lineman at TE.
