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TE O.J. Howard, Raiders (2 Viewers)

Ok I’m just curious- why is OJH a better pickup than Jesse James. More targets, more yards, more points. I’ll hang up and listen, thanks. 

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok I’m just curious- why is OJH a better pickup than Jesse James. More targets, more yards, more points. I’ll hang up and listen, thanks. 
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My opinion... Vance McDonald was injured and did not play week 1.  They eased him back into action week 2.  I expect him to be more involved moving forward at the expense of James.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok I’m just curious- why is OJH a better pickup than Jesse James. More targets, more yards, more points. I’ll hang up and listen, thanks. 
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OJH's rookie year was better than any year that Jesse James has had, JJ has never had more than 400 yards or 3 TD's in a single season. This could be his year but I would rather bet on OJH than James.

 
Excited to see what OJ does tonight. 

I'd love to see a spike in targets in what should be a shootout. The Steelers seem a little vulnerable against TEs and the secondary will have it's hands full with Evans/DeSean/Godwin. 

 
O.J. Howard caught 6-of-8 targets for 72 yards in the Bucs' Week 3 loss to the Steelers.

Howard out-targeted fellow TE Cameron Brate 8-4 on the night, but it was the latter who was used (and scored) in the red zone. Howard has still recorded at least 50 yards receiving in all three games so far this year and continues to progressively see more usage with every passing week. He's the tight end to own in Tampa Bay.

Sep 25 - 1:22 AM
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I wasn't a big fan of how they used OJ last night.  He was taken out for a lot of the red zone snaps in favor of 4 WRs sets. While his stat line looks good at the end of the night, I was a bit worried going into the 4th quarter when he was stuck at 2rec for 22 yards on 4 targets. Once they started throwing his way, he clearly looked like a top tier TE in this league and I'm just baffled why they didn't try to get the ball in his hands a bit more.

I'm curious to see his snap count vs Brate.  Felt about 50/50 to me.   

 
Max Power said:
I wasn't a big fan of how they used OJ last night.  He was taken out for a lot of the red zone snaps in favor of 4 WRs sets. While his stat line looks good at the end of the night, I was a bit worried going into the 4th quarter when he was stuck at 2rec for 22 yards on 4 targets. Once they started throwing his way, he clearly looked like a top tier TE in this league and I'm just baffled why they didn't try to get the ball in his hands a bit more.

I'm curious to see his snap count vs Brate.  Felt about 50/50 to me.   
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I agree...the announcers (Witten?) were banging the table for more targets for Howard, especially in the red zone, and Fitzpatrick didn't even seem to look his way even though he had a constant mismatch in coverage. Hopefully they'll look at the tape and realize that OJ should be fed. 

 
mjb03003 said:
I agree...the announcers (Witten?) were banging the table for more targets for Howard, especially in the red zone, and Fitzpatrick didn't even seem to look his way even though he had a constant mismatch in coverage. Hopefully they'll look at the tape and realize that OJ should be fed. 
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Agreed.  It looked to me like he was switched out for brate in the red zone a lot. 

 
Max Power said:
I'm curious to see his snap count vs Brate.  Felt about 50/50 to me.   
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OJ Howard 49 offensive snaps 49 (66%) 8 targets 6 receptions 72 yards

Cameron Brae offensive snaps 31 (42%) 4 targets 3 receptions 32 yards 1 TD.

For some reason Brate got the majority of the opportunities in the red zone, which seems strange to me.

Howard got hit in the back on two of his receptions and seemed to be in pain as the first one he was out of the game for awhile. On the second one he reaches to his lower back which clearly was hurt on the hit based on his reaction. 

The Bucs red zone offense didn't make much sense. They were down there without Evans or Howard in the line up, their two biggest weapons.

 
Biabreakable said:
The Bucs red zone offense didn't make much sense. They were down there without Evans or Howard in the line up, their two biggest weapons.
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I was wondering the same thing. Seemed bizarre watching the 6'6 and 6'5 weapons trot off the field akin to 5'9 slot WRs during RZ opps.

 
Max Power said:
I wasn't a big fan of how they used OJ last night.  He was taken out for a lot of the red zone snaps in favor of 4 WRs sets. While his stat line looks good at the end of the night, I was a bit worried going into the 4th quarter when he was stuck at 2rec for 22 yards on 4 targets. Once they started throwing his way, he clearly looked like a top tier TE in this league and I'm just baffled why they didn't try to get the ball in his hands a bit more.

I'm curious to see his snap count vs Brate.  Felt about 50/50 to me.   
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I'm going to go with Dirk Cotter as the issue.

I think Howard outsnapped and out targeted Brate...but not in the Red Zone.

 
It was fun while it lasted but looks like he’s only a desperate, don’t have anyone else to start guy again. Wasn’t keeping that close of a track but didn’t seem like he got a target once Winston was in and of course Winston found his best buddy brate for the TD. 

 
Bfrahm3 said:
It was fun while it lasted but looks like he’s only a desperate, don’t have anyone else to start guy again. Wasn’t keeping that close of a track but didn’t seem like he got a target once Winston was in and of course Winston found his best buddy brate for the TD. 
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He left the game in the 2nd quarter

 
Bfrahm3 said:
It was fun while it lasted but looks like he’s only a desperate, don’t have anyone else to start guy again. Wasn’t keeping that close of a track but didn’t seem like he got a target once Winston was in and of course Winston found his best buddy brate for the TD. 
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Lol

 
Yes, I was clarifying because it seemed like such a bizarre statement that I thought the possibility strong that he misspoke. I can't imagine anyone trading Howard away straight up for any of those guys.

 
FF Ninja said:
Yes, I was clarifying because it seemed like such a bizarre statement that I thought the possibility strong that he misspoke. I can't imagine anyone trading Howard away straight up for any of those guys.
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I would for Kittle but probably not for the others - but that’s just his opinion and I don’t find it too outlandish based on the context he laid out.

TB does have a lot of mouths to feed in their passing game including Brate right now who has a nice rapport with Winston. 

Howard is a physical specimen though and that’s always intriguing.

 
FF Ninja said:
Yes, I was clarifying because it seemed like such a bizarre statement that I thought the possibility strong that he misspoke. I can't imagine anyone trading Howard away straight up for any of those guys.
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I didn't say I would trade him straight up for them, and that wasn't what you asked.  You asked who I liked better long term and those are who I prefer long term straight up - I think (thought at the time?) all will be more productive/valuable long term.  I make my transactions based on economics, however, and I recognize Howard has more market value than most of them, and if I had Howard (I don't) I'd make sure to get something additional in trade if I moved him.

 
Hankmoody said:
I didn't say I would trade him straight up for them, and that wasn't what you asked.  You asked who I liked better long term and those are who I prefer long term straight up - I think (thought at the time?) all will be more productive/valuable long term.  I make my transactions based on economics, however, and I recognize Howard has more market value than most of them, and if I had Howard (I don't) I'd make sure to get something additional in trade if I moved him.
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Um, that's one of the many ways "straight up" can be put into context, and "straight up" is indeed what we were talking about. The hypothetical could be that you are down to your last cut picking b/w two players with no trade partners, or both are available with your last pick, a 1-for-1 trade, or whatever. It is very, very questionable that anyone would select any of those guys "straight up" over Howard. Again, I made context very clear. I said I could understand you feeling like you'd rather spend less draft capital for a cheaper guy (taking value into account rather than making it binary), but I can't imagine you picking any of those guys over Howard if the cost was the same. I get now that Howard is injured and Kittle had a huge game people might be tempted in the moment to go Kittle, but I think after the dust settles that we all know Howard is the better long term choice (and I say this as a Kittle owner - even with the MCL injury I would snap accept if offered Howard for Kittle). 

I think the whole "I care what the team is saying" thing looks a bit sillier after seeing the snap and target distribution through 3 weeks. Brate was playing 30.6% of snaps to Howard's 71.8% and the target split was 14-6 in Howard's favor. 

It would be interesting to revisit this in 15 years and see where  Kittle, Gesicki, Burton, Goedert, Reed, RSJ, and Howard finished from 2018 on. Statistically, betting the field is the safe bet, but I'd be pretty surprised if any of those guys had better fantasy returns than Howard from this season forward. I'll be very surprised if Reed is even playing in 5 years.

I'll be using this MCL injury as a last ditch buying attempt, but I don't think I'm going to be able to get any additional Howard shares unless you're holding him in any of my leagues, Hank.

 
He was dropped in my redraft.  Obviously Brate and Winston put a little damper on him due to past history.

Will his talent eventually overcome the obstacles in what looks to be a pass 1st offense?

I have Rudolph as my #1 but think I'm going to scoop him as the position is so thin this year and dangle him as bait worst case scenario after a good game

 
Been adding him in every league I can. Like Charlie Kelly says "cream always rises to the top and you're about to see that hot white cream of an eighth grade boy"

 
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starks said:
Been adding him in every league I can. Like Charlie Kelly says "cream always rises to the top and you're about to see that hot white cream of an eighth grade boy"
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Yep.  I am a big buyer on Howard, Kittle, and HH as the next guard of elite TEs once the current top guys age out.

Njoku and Engram are sells to me.

 
Full practice Friday. 

Anyone have any inside info on OJ being active or not?

Brate owner who may send him back to dumpsville if OJ is actually active.

 
kyoun1e said:
Full practice Friday. 

Anyone have any inside info on OJ being active or not?

Brate owner who may send him back to dumpsville if OJ is actually active.
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I’d wait until you know for sure, but practicing all week typically means he’s suiting up. I wouldn’t drop Brate though with Winston back. 

 
Grahamburn said:
I’d wait until you know for sure, but practicing all week typically means he’s suiting up. I wouldn’t drop Brate though with Winston back. 
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If the snap breakdown between OJ and Brate stays what it was before OJ got hurt, it wont matter.  OJ was in the field a helluva lot more than Brate and has far more playmaking ability. 

 
Howard active today. I have him and Brate and leaning towards Brate today. I don't want to take the chance that he starts but then can't go and take another goose egg.

 
Brate had 1 target for a TD at the beginning of game then disappeared.  Hopefully Howard can be a top TE moving forward in what looks like an offense that will need to keep up all season.

 
in2win said:
Brate had 1 target for a TD at the beginning of game then disappeared.  Hopefully Howard can be a top TE moving forward in what looks like an offense that will need to keep up all season.
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The talent is obviously there, but I don't think we can count on the volume to sustain him as a top TE from week to week. Winston threw the ball 41 times and Howard saw 4 of those targets. I'm hoping it was because he was coming back from injury, but there are a lot of talented receivers on this team. Going to be hard to keep them all fed.

 
FF Ninja said:
The talent is obviously there, but I don't think we can count on the volume to sustain him as a top TE from week to week. Winston threw the ball 41 times and Howard saw 4 of those targets. I'm hoping it was because he was coming back from injury, but there are a lot of talented receivers on this team. Going to be hard to keep them all fed.
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Howard looked awesome on all his targets. I hope you're wrong, fear you're right. He's become one of the most talented in-line TEs there is, though, and in this year, should be used as such. 

 
rockaction said:
Howard looked awesome on all his targets. I hope you're wrong, fear you're right. He's become one of the most talented in-line TEs there is, though, and in this year, should be used as such. 
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, too. For a glimmer of hope, his snap count was down in week 6 (52%). Prior to his week 4 injury, his snap count had been 65%, 79%, 66%. So maybe with a little more playing time he sees more targets, but there's almost no hope he'll be averaging 7-8 targets a game. For reference, last year Kelce averaged 8.1. Ertz averaged 7.9. Gronk averaged 7.5.

 
FF Ninja said:
I'm hoping I'm wrong, too. For a glimmer of hope, his snap count was down in week 6 (52%). Prior to his week 4 injury, his snap count had been 65%, 79%, 66%. So maybe with a little more playing time he sees more targets, but there's almost no hope he'll be averaging 7-8 targets a game. For reference, last year Kelce averaged 8.1. Ertz averaged 7.9. Gronk averaged 7.5.
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I kept an eye on the game on DIrectTV game mix, so I'm no expert, but every time I looked up, he was doing something awesome. Looks like the stats tell a colder tale, and I'll admit that. Brate was always going to have a role with Winston, as lod001 and Shamrock and others constantly reminded us. He just was. They'll spread them out for him.  Howard's not getting Kelce or Ertz or Gronk targets yet, but you knew that when skipping those guys and drafting him, hopefully. Hopefully you got Howard cheap at an auction draft, frankly. That's really where I roster him.

And he's been worth it. I drafted him and Vance in auction (and one for fun) and got them cheap.   

 
rockaction said:
I kept an eye on the game on DIrectTV game mix, so I'm no expert, but every time I looked up, he was doing something awesome. Looks like the stats tell a colder tale, and I'll admit that. Brate was always going to have a role with Winston, as lod001 and Shamrock and others constantly reminded us. He just was. They'll spread them out for him.  Howard's not getting Kelce or Ertz or Gronk targets yet, but you knew that when skipping those guys and drafting him, hopefully. Hopefully you got Howard cheap at an auction draft, frankly. That's really where I roster him.

And he's been worth it. I drafted him and Vance in auction (and one for fun) and got them cheap.   
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He was actually pretty pricey in my redraft auctions this year. I might have him in one redraft league. I'm mainly watching him from a dynasty standpoint. I'm hopeful he will soon become a 7-8 target guy and when he does, I think he'll be top 3 for a long time. He's not there yet, but he's showing a Gronk-like efficiency with his targets (yards per reception and TDs per reception). 

 
FF Ninja said:
He was actually pretty pricey in my redraft auctions this year. I might have him in one redraft league. I'm mainly watching him from a dynasty standpoint. I'm hopeful he will soon become a 7-8 target guy and when he does, I think he'll be top 3 for a long time. He's not there yet, but he's showing a Gronk-like efficiency with his targets (yards per reception and TDs per reception). 
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Oh, he went late round in a fun draft of mine, late in another main league auction, and was 8 bucks in the subscriber auction. That's what I'm basing it on. That he was pricey in yours speaks to the quality of your auctions, frankly. Good price, good auction.

I think the re-signing of Brate without knowing the full terms of Brate's deal got in the way in less-informed leagues.   

 
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rockaction said:
Oh, he went late round in a fun draft of mine, late in another main league auction, and was 8 bucks in the subscriber auction. That's what I'm basing it on. That he was pricey in yours speaks to the quality of your auctions, frankly. Good price, good auction.

I think the re-signing of Brate without knowing the full terms of Brate's deal got in the way in less-informed leagues.   
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Yeah, YMMV on his auction values and I think a lot of mine were TE premium. I was hoping to get him at around 4%, but I frequently got outbid even at 5%. I think he was $11 in the subscriber contest. I remember because I was debating between him at $11, Kittle at $12, and Njoku at $12. IIRC, I went with Kittle due to the lack of competition. I still like all three of those guys, but Howard is my favorite long term. 

 
FF Ninja said:
Yeah, YMMV on his auction values and I think a lot of mine were TE premium. I was hoping to get him at around 4%, but I frequently got outbid even at 5%. I think he was $11 in the subscriber contest. I remember because I was debating between him at $11, Kittle at $12, and Njoku at $12. IIRC, I went with Kittle due to the lack of competition. I still like all three of those guys, but Howard is my favorite long term. 
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He could very well have been eleven bucks. Him and McDonald were the same, I think. That's all I remember. I thought I got good value for both, and it turned out right, so far. We'll see how that investment carries me further along in this subscriber gig. I go off of feel and don't take draft-only stuff too seriously because of injuries. YMMV with that added construct. But thanks for the Howard info. Nice to know. Brate, I've always thought, was Winston's checkdown wubby, but a TD one. Can pick him up in standard and just roll.  

 
Just traded Edelman to get him, I drafted Reed but just don't like the Washington offense this year.

Was actually incredibly impressed that he came back from an mcl sprain after just one week. Guy must be as tough as nails.

Hoping that he continues to show his talent - this team is going to be playing from behind a lot.

 
The Good: Second on the team with 9 targets and back to playing his normal allotment of snaps. 
The Bad: Winston attempted 52 passes, so that target share is only 17%. Would like to see him playing more than 66% of snaps.

 
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