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Teachers and Police are upper middle class...I tried to warn you (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Friends, before this shoots in nine different directions I would simply like to point out that this is obviously a report designed to cause fighting and finger pointing among a fairly large section of the population. So before someone with a bleeding heart tries to turn the upper middle class into the next Rockefellers, let's have a real talk about this report

They have the upper middle class claiming almost 30% of the population, how is that possible? They have a rather large window of $100,000-$350,000 and I remind you that the actual middle middle class and lower middle class and whatever sections of the lower class all must fit under the $100,000 ceiling. So please take a moment to examine this bullspit report.

The number of Americans who make over $150,000 per year is less than 3% of the population. So what this report did was turn a police officer and teacher who combine for $100,000 a year and turned them into $350,000 a year upper middle class citizens...can you not see the major problem here? Socialist type views and wanting to redistribute wealth is leaking into the average common worker. 

I find this report revolting. It manages to do exactly what I have been warning folks about for years in terms of how people view others who obtain success or simply want to try and see just how far they can make it in this life. They took a fairly good chunk of people who live in households where the combined income is $100k-$150k, I imagine that hits home for many on this board. But when you break that down between husband and wife or couples of any gender and you see that we are really talking about people making $50,000 a year and that is not viewed as upper middle class when you have 2 of them living in 1 house which could just be a 1 bedroom apartment in many big cities. 

This report makes me vomit in my mouth. It perverts the reality. If you doubt me in any way go watch Inequality for All which shows the horrific path of the avg American worker in this country. This report wants folks who make $35,000-$40,000 a year to turn on their co-workers making $60k or to suddenly view them as rich or upper middle class if they happen to be married to someone else making $40,000 a year. The social engineering to make people think that regular working folks are rich is just incredible to me. We cannot allow this to go unnoticed. These reports would make people think that times are rolling right now and they simply are not for most people.  

$100,000-$350,000? I want to see the real numbers of the middle class which IMO $100,000-$150,000 a year for a family of 3+ is pretty solid middle class, how is that 1 step from a wealthy cat? They took a small fraction of the population and thrust that into the middle class to make it appear like there is a huge upper middle class that is thriving in this country and I simply disagree with that nonsense. This is more BS to make working class citizens feel guilty for wanting to have a decent life.   

 
"Still, the rich and upper middle class have gotten a disproportionate share of the income gains."

Those ******* teachers married to other ******* teachers, we gotta fight those SOBs to get what's ours, who's with me?

 
WTF is your point? Why the hell would you assume that this report was designed to create a riot and make people turn on each other?

If you disagree with the numbers, show how they are wrong. I know plenty of upper middle class families that are in fact doing quite well. They were able to buy nice homes when the housing prices dropped and plenty of other expenses have stayed very reasonable. Technology has advanced a ton so there are no shortage of electronic goodies that were unfathomable many years ago. Why is that a bad thing again?

 
WTF is your point? Why the hell would you assume that this report was designed to create a riot and make people turn on each other?

If you disagree with the numbers, show how they are wrong. I know plenty of upper middle class families that are in fact doing quite well. They were able to buy nice homes when the housing prices dropped and plenty of other expenses have stayed very reasonable. Technology has advanced a ton so there are no shortage of electronic goodies that were unfathomable many years ago. Why is that a bad thing again?
Maybe your friends were like my family and waited for the better part of 10 years of our marriage before we finally were able to buy something after the market crashed. It was a 1940s fixer upper in the heart of Miami, semi-rough neighborhood, we put 3% down on a $170,000 purchase in a big metro, were we upper middle class?

Your view of things already seems a little skewed. Also I never said there were going to be riots, the report simply is a false snapshot of what is really happening. They lumped a lot of folks who have household incomes of $100,000-$150,000 a year into the same income category as the lawyer making $350,000 a year, who I in no way begrudge but the school teacher should not be in the same income class, sorry but this report is a serious perversion of numbers and stats. 

Let's take aim at the upper middle class, that's the narrative here. We can't get any more money from the truly wealthy so we need to try and squeeze the folks who actually punch a clock and go to work everyday, we need to try and milk those folks for all we can.

 
Sometimes facts get in the way of opinions. 
The fact is the number of folks out of the $100k-$350k who make over $150k in that category is very small, they might as well extended it out to everyone who make up to $1 Million because the numbers are being twisted. Less than 3% of the population earns more than $150k, so let's back the spread to $100,000-$150,000 but a jump in spread of almost a 1/4 million when we try to take a snapshot of the middle class is just ridiculous. It's class warfare at it's worst IMO based on facts I am gathering. 

 
Down with teachers!!!  They're living high on the hog and they get summers off?!?!?  Screw those glorified babysitters! :rant:

 
The fact is the number of folks out of the $100k-$350k who make over $150k in that category is very small, they might as well extended it out to everyone who make up to $1 Million because the numbers are being twisted. Less than 3% of the population earns more than $150k, so let's back the spread to $100,000-$150,000 but a jump in spread of almost a 1/4 million when we try to take a snapshot of the middle class is just ridiculous. It's class warfare at it's worst IMO based on facts I am gathering. 
Not sure what to tell you. In many parts of the country, 100K a year is a pretty good living. Some might call it, upper middle class. 

 
You should probably take a break from reading and watching and listening to politics for a while.  


And writing about.   How did I forget "writing about".
Did you not watch John Oliver this week? No rest, that's what the other side wants. Of course you want me to take a break, this doesn't gel with your Socialistic views, of course you want folks who can analyze the bullspit reports to shut up. 

Your passive aggressiveness only enrages me more  :rant:

 
The worst losers in American society are those who complain that other people are earning too much money. 
I'm not sure what you mean but I am not begrudging of anyone who earns more, I encourage folks to earn as much as they can. What I don't like is being labeled as a target for going out and working.

$30k a year is really just a step up from minimum wage and this report would have you feeling 2 folks from that section are middle class combined, that's just silly. And 2 minimum wage workers would likely scrape up $30k a year, that's lower middle class in this report. Outrageous!!!

 
"The upper middle class grew to 29.4% of the population in 2014, up from 12.9% in 1979, according to a new Urban Institute report. It defines this group as having household income of between $100,000 and $350,000 for a three-person family"

http://www.urban.org/about/contact-us

There you go. Go talk to them about how they segment their class system and make the case for why it should start/end at whatever numbers you believe it shouuld. 

 
"The upper middle class grew to 29.4% of the population in 2014, up from 12.9% in 1979, according to a new Urban Institute report. It defines this group as having household income of between $100,000 and $350,000 for a three-person family"

http://www.urban.org/about/contact-us

There you go. Go talk to them about how they segment their class system and make the case for why it should start/end at whatever numbers you believe it shouuld. 
Thanks for the info and link. They say the middle class grew but they are not being honest about the numbers. And going back to 1979, let's factor inflation into things and see what the true numbers are. The American worker hasn't gotten much of a raise when you go back all the way to the 1970s.

$50k teacher + $50k gov't employee = Upper Middle Class citizen, keep telling yourselves that.  

 
Valid point but I'm not talking about Hoboken, WI. 
Perhaps the 100K mark is upper Middle class in Hoboken WI. In Hoboken NJ, however, you may need to be closer to 200K. That would explain the hug gap between 100-350K. You cant "one size fits all" when talking about incomes. 

 
Perhaps the 100K mark is upper Middle class in Hoboken WI. In Hoboken NJ, however, you may need to be closer to 200K. That would explain the hug gap between 100-350K. You cant "one size fits all" when talking about incomes. 
None of it changes the fact they have regular working moms and dads suddenly in the uber wealthy category and I think it's a sign of the changing times, not something I agree with and am speaking out against by using these boards to sound off. 

 
Did you not watch John Oliver this week? No rest, that's what the other side wants. Of course you want me to take a break, this doesn't gel with your Socialistic views, of course you want folks who can analyze the bullspit reports to shut up. 

Your passive aggressiveness only enrages me more  :rant:
I am not talking about your views. I'm talking about you posting in all the politics threads, watching cnn and John Oliver to find things to disagree with them about, then starting even more new threads about them.  

 
So,  "rich" =2%, "upper middle" = 29% (They used 5 times the poverty level for a family of 3 as their bar.), "middle" = 32%, "lower middle" = 17% and "poor" = 20%. Is that really that extreme? Rich + upper middle = 31%; lower middle + poor = 37%.  It's a slightly skewed bell curve, but nothing that startling.  Would you feel a lot better if they changed their classification so that upper middle was 26% and middle was 35%?  Sure, it's arbitrary, but using 7 times the poverty level would be just as arbitrary.  As long as the same methodology is used for setting the limits for the years being compared, how does it matter? Besides, is it now an insult to be called upper middle class? You can just as easily argue that this study is rigged to "give hope" to those with lower incomes--it shows them that upward movement is not only possible, but happening quite a bit. 

 
:tinfoilhat:

After reading the "report" I get your point even without the angst.  It's meaningless imo when they use "stats" like In 1979, the upper middle class would have brought in between $36,500 and $127,700 a year.  What is the value of that statement?  

[SIZE=17.6px]I'm not big on labels but where do they put a family of 7 making  $125k?[/SIZE]

 
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I am not talking about your views. I'm talking about you posting in all the politics threads, watching cnn and John Oliver to find things to disagree with them about, then starting even more new threads about them.  
Ignoring the problems doesn't make them go away. 

In all honesty BF, life for MOP is pretty GD good and when you factor in I have no real physical ailments other than an increasingly lighter constitution  :D  I'm extremely lucky. But I see a lot of folks who do not have it as good and I want others to succeed, not get a huge government handout but come up thru the system and achieve and succeed but many are being socially engineered to become victims in our society, that's a horrible outlook and way to walk thru life and you know I speak the truth, I live it on an almost daily basis. 

It's painful to see honest hard working people labeled as potentially wealthy or unjustly getting too much money, that's UnAmerican to me. 

 
Mop, it seems you are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How does it change your life if you are labeled Upper middle class, according to statistics? Do you have to put a bumper sticker on the Subaru so everyone knows? People make income guesses based on your house, car and appearance anyways, so whats the difference? In the end, it all meaningless. 

 
Thanks for the info and link. They say the middle class grew but they are not being honest about the numbers. And going back to 1979, let's factor inflation into things and see what the true numbers are. The American worker hasn't gotten much of a raise when you go back all the way to the 1970s.

$50k teacher + $50k gov't employee = Upper Middle Class citizen, keep telling yourselves that.  
Here's a lawyer who considers himself upper middle class, and I make less than that teacher and gov't employee combination.  In fact, even with my wife's salary added to mine, we're just barely above that combination (and are under the $150,000 level). Are you telling me, I'm not doing as well as I thought? 

 
Im not sure I get the point. I have been teaching for 16 years. I live in NY in a very highly taxed community (based on the thread here a few months ago- property taxes=14,000). I also have a beach condo in OCMD in a very nice area. How on earth would I be able to do this if I was not upper middle class

:confused:

 
Im not sure I get the point. I have been teaching for 16 years. I live in NY in a very highly taxed community (based on the thread here a few months ago- property taxes=14,000). I also have a beach condo in OCMD in a very nice area. How on earth would I be able to do this if I was not upper middle class

:confused:
It's painful to see honest hard working people labeled as potentially wealthy.

 
So,  "rich" =2%, "upper middle" = 29% (They used 5 times the poverty level for a family of 3 as their bar.), "middle" = 32%, "lower middle" = 17% and "poor" = 20%. Is that really that extreme? Rich + upper middle = 31%; lower middle + poor = 37%.  It's a slightly skewed bell curve, but nothing that startling.  Would you feel a lot better if they changed their classification so that upper middle was 26% and middle was 35%?  Sure, it's arbitrary, but using 7 times the poverty level would be just as arbitrary.  As long as the same methodology is used for setting the limits for the years being compared, how does it matter? Besides, is it now an insult to be called upper middle class? You can just as easily argue that this study is rigged to "give hope" to those with lower incomes--it shows them that upward movement is not only possible, but happening quite a bit. 
If you haven't been paying attention to my themes and posts, I am trying to unite the folks who make $50,000-$200,000 a year, believe it or not a lot of young doctors and attorneys fall into this band so it helps unite Joe the Plumber with Stu the Dentist, instead of creating class warfare, I want to unite a large working class of folks. Nothing against the minimum wage workers, want to help them too but we need for the middle class working folks who drive the economy and pretty much life itself for both classes above them and below them to unite and not be broken apart into upper/middle/lower, the lifestyles are very similar...put on pants, go work, pay for car/house/bills, granted the cars are a little nicer for the folks making $200k but the lifestyles are very similar. 

Less fighting, more uniting, less Left/Right, more worker centered. The Labor Party for lack of originality. 

 
Maybe your friends were like my family and waited for the better part of 10 years of our marriage before we finally were able to buy something after the market crashed. It was a 1940s fixer upper in the heart of Miami, semi-rough neighborhood, we put 3% down on a $170,000 purchase in a big metro, were we upper middle class?

Your view of things already seems a little skewed. Also I never said there were going to be riots, the report simply is a false snapshot of what is really happening. They lumped a lot of folks who have household incomes of $100,000-$150,000 a year into the same income category as the lawyer making $350,000 a year, who I in no way begrudge but the school teacher should not be in the same income class, sorry but this report is a serious perversion of numbers and stats. 

Let's take aim at the upper middle class, that's the narrative here. We can't get any more money from the truly wealthy so we need to try and squeeze the folks who actually punch a clock and go to work everyday, we need to try and milk those folks for all we can.
You realize that probably less than 3% of lawyers make 350k/year or more?

 
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I thought I had the whole day off, just got a call for some substitution in a Miami summer camp but we're going to Marlins Park so no way I say no. Tonight it's Fernandez and then 12:00 game tomorrow, love me some free government work. Time to go take advantage of the system and then complain about it to everyone, have to pick this back up on...what day is today? Thursday I guess.

I had the day planned here, little Socialism #####fest, BBQ Tofu/Beach walk, fish at Pier later. My work is never done I tell you.  

 
Wait, so if your household combined makes more the 150k your in the top 3% and are considered rich?  I must have missed that memo, time to trade in my 09 Honda Fit I guess.  

 
You realize that probably less than 3% of lawyers make 350k/year or more?
I appreciate that Zow, living in LosAng//Miami the last 15 years has clouded my income perception for many of them but you're right. That's my point on a Labor Party, I want to include doctors and lawyers but we are socially engineered to think those folks are mega wealthy and working against folks with lower incomes. 

 
Where you live plays such a huge part in all of this. Making X amount of money in NYC and comparing that same X amount of money to living in Wichita. Kansas, would give you much different results in terms of buying power. Solely looking at income is very misleading. 

 
Don't you know what it means to become an upper middle class guy? It changes

everything. I'd have to dress different. I'd have to act different. I'd have to

grow a mustache and get all kinds of robes and lotions and I'd need a new

bedspread and new curtains I'd have to get thick carpeting and weirdo lighting.

I'd have to get new friends. I'd have to get upper middle class friends.

... Naw, I'm not ready for it.

 
My wife and i fall into the 100-150 area and it feels upper middle class to me. We have a nice house, lease nice new cars, go on multiple vacations every year, eat/drink out regularly. I have large TVs with 200 channels and high speed internet for the 7 different devices I own that can connect to it.  I was able to pay for my masters degree im without borrowing. Michigan has a reasonable cost of living and I don't have kids. But think about all the things we own and pay for that many of our parents didn't. Cable, multiple cars, Internet, multiple TVs, iPads, computers, etc. 

 
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My wife and i fall into the 100-150 area and it feels upper middle class to me. We have a nice house, lease nice new cars, go on multiple vacations every year, eat/drink out regularly. I have large TVs with 200 channels and high speed internet for the 7 different devices I own that can connect to it.  I was able to pay for my masters degree im without borrowing. Michigan has a reasonable cost of living and I don't have kids.
Without kids you might as well be megarich. 

 
My wife and i fall into the 100-150 area and it feels upper middle class to me. We have a nice house, lease nice new cars, go on multiple vacations every year, eat/drink out regularly. I have large TVs with 200 channels and high speed internet for the 7 different devices I own that can connect to it.  I was able to pay for my masters degree im without borrowing. Michigan has a reasonable cost of living and I don't have kids. But think about all the things we own and pay for that many of our parents didn't. Cable, multiple cars, Internet, multiple TVs, iPads, computers, etc. 
The "x" factor in that statement is that you don't have kids.  That's where all the money goes.  If you're in the $100k-$150K range and are DINKS then, yeah, you're living high on the hog most likely. 

My wife and I are in that category and we do fine.  We have a couple friend who are, funny enough, a cop and a teacher and they have one child and their life couldn't be more opposite.

 
Median national income: $29,000

Median national salary for police officer: $54,000
Median national salary for teacher: $45,000

 
Maybe your friends were like my family and waited for the better part of 10 years of our marriage before we finally were able to buy something after the market crashed. It was a 1940s fixer upper in the heart of Miami, semi-rough neighborhood, we put 3% down on a $170,000 purchase in a big metro, were we upper middle class?

Your view of things already seems a little skewed. Also I never said there were going to be riots, the report simply is a false snapshot of what is really happening. They lumped a lot of folks who have household incomes of $100,000-$150,000 a year into the same income category as the lawyer making $350,000 a year, who I in no way begrudge but the school teacher should not be in the same income class, sorry but this report is a serious perversion of numbers and stats. 

Let's take aim at the upper middle class, that's the narrative here. We can't get any more money from the truly wealthy so we need to try and squeeze the folks who actually punch a clock and go to work everyday, we need to try and milk those folks for all we can.
Seems odd to call that range upper middle class when it covers three tax brackets.

 
The "x" factor in that statement is that you don't have kids.  That's where all the money goes.  If you're in the $100k-$150K range and are DINKS then, yeah, you're living high on the hog most likely. 

My wife and I are in that category and we do fine.  We have a couple friend who are, funny enough, a cop and a teacher and they have one child and their life couldn't be more opposite.
Couples choose to have kids. It's an expense just like buying property. Also many parents choose to indulge their kids. They might not feel upper middle class, but how much are they spending on organic baby food, cell phones for the kids, expensive video games, constant new clothes, hundreds of dollars worth of Xmas and birthday presents. All kinds of money to play soccer and get dance lessons. 

 
So the assertion of this thread is that we should use the same "middle" bucket for families making the median income and families making twice the median income?

 

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