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Tebow (1 Viewer)

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I think if people only change "The Broncos won several games BECAUSE of Tim Tebow" to "The Broncos won several games IN SPITE of Tim Tebow," then people would have a better understanding of the real situation and why he's having a hard time finding work AS A QUARTERBACK. (Teams have indicated if he were willing to play another position they would consider signing him.)

Yes, Tebow only threw 6 INTs in 2011. But he was so inaccurate that even defenders couldn't make a play on the ball. Lost in the argument that he hardly threw any interceptions is the fact that he FUMBLED 14 times that year.

I realize that Tebow is not Peyton Manning, but with essentially the same personnel, the 2012 Broncos scored 172 more points, had 1300 more yards of offense, and had 2100 more passing yards than the Tebow led team the season before. After scoring 20 or more points in 4 of the 5 games WITHOUT Tebow, Denver scored 20 or more points only 4 times in 13 games WITH Tebow. Put another way, the Broncos defense won those games for Denver . . . Tebow just happened to be on the field at the end of those games. Sure, it was a feel good story that the Broncos were able to overcome the anemic Tebow led offense and he did a decent enough job leading some comebacks, but a lot of the blame for them needing to come back fell squarely on him.

Since then, reports out of the Jets practice was that he was a grossly inadequate QB. That says something when your starter is Mark Sanchez and the Jets opted for Greg McElroy over Tebow. Maybe Tebow deserves a shot at being a back up QB, but based on everything else it doesn't look like any team is willing to give him a shot based on his very poor passing totals (and reports of his inadequacies as a passer).

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Put another way, the Broncos defense won those games for Denver
And maybe if Tebow detractors stopped saying this then people would start listening to them as well.

The Denver defense was not good in 2011. They were 26th in the NFL in points allowed. 24th if you count only the games that Tebow started (and 28th if you count the playoffs). I believe they also led the NFL in most games giving up 40+ points, which they did a whopping FIVE times. For comparison, the average of the rest of the NFL was 0.74 times.

 

Buffaloes

Footballguy
Put another way, the Broncos defense won those games for Denver
And maybe if Tebow detractors stopped saying this then people would start listening to them as well.

The Denver defense was not good in 2011. They were 26th in the NFL in points allowed. 24th if you count only the games that Tebow started (and 28th if you count the playoffs). I believe they also led the NFL in most games giving up 40+ points, which they did a whopping FIVE times. For comparison, the average of the rest of the NFL was 0.74 times.
since we are talking specifically about wins, how did the Denver d perform in the games they won with Tebow?

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Buffaloes said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Anarchy99 said:
Put another way, the Broncos defense won those games for Denver
And maybe if Tebow detractors stopped saying this then people would start listening to them as well.

The Denver defense was not good in 2011. They were 26th in the NFL in points allowed. 24th if you count only the games that Tebow started (and 28th if you count the playoffs). I believe they also led the NFL in most games giving up 40+ points, which they did a whopping FIVE times. For comparison, the average of the rest of the NFL was 0.74 times.
since we are talking specifically about wins, how did the Denver d perform in the games they won with Tebow?
Can't find those numbers already recorded, but via my own math they're at 17.5ppg. From a random sample of a handful of teams I think that would put them somewhere in the middle of the pack, tied with the Giants.

For comparison of a top defense, in 2012 counting only wins the Seahawks allowed 8ppg.

 
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Coeur de Lion

Footballguy
You guys are just haters. It's abundantly clear that the NFL is blackballing Christians based on a massive conspiracy involving our radical President and the liberal media. When Tebow comes out of the closet and his true birth certificate from Kenya comes to light you'll all be singing a different tune and he can take his place in the HOF as the best QB evah...

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).

That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.

 

Buffaloes

Footballguy
Buffaloes said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Anarchy99 said:
Put another way, the Broncos defense won those games for Denver
And maybe if Tebow detractors stopped saying this then people would start listening to them as well.

The Denver defense was not good in 2011. They were 26th in the NFL in points allowed. 24th if you count only the games that Tebow started (and 28th if you count the playoffs). I believe they also led the NFL in most games giving up 40+ points, which they did a whopping FIVE times. For comparison, the average of the rest of the NFL was 0.74 times.
since we are talking specifically about wins, how did the Denver d perform in the games they won with Tebow?
Can't find those numbers already recorded, but via my own math they're at 17.5ppg...
::thumbsupguy::

I agree, they were pretty good in those wins. AS a homer I watched them closely, and honestly the team didn't have a chance unless the d kept them in it.

I feel like this has been covered ad nauseum somewhere already though.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Denver's 2011 record broken down further, based on points allowed:

0-9 points allowed: 0-1

10-19 points allowed: 5-0

20-29 points allowed: 2-0

30-39 points allowed: 1-0

40+ points allowed: 0-4

Loss in the 0-9 range, which should have been an automatic win. Most wins came in the 10-19 range, which should generally be a win about 80% of the time. 2-0 in the 20-29 range which is a toss-up, though it's worth noting one of these was against Pittsburgh who was 8-1 in games where they scored in that range. 1-0 in the 30-39 range which should generally be a loss kind of makes of for the bad loss in the 0-9 range. Most losses came in the 40+ range which most QBs have never won a game in and guys like Rogers/Brady lead the pack at around an 8% winning pct.

 
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Anarchy99

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.

 

hxperson

Footballguy
FreeBaGeL, on 05 Jun 2013 - 15:03, said:That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.
Yeah but in those 5 losses Tebow also threw 5 interceptions and fumbled the ball 8 times, while throwing at a 43% completion rate. Tebow was a huge reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why the defense gave up 40+ points.ETA - also to your second point- the Denver defense did not have a single game last year where they gave up more than 40 points. Do you really think the defense was THAT much better, or do you think maybe the QB change had something to do with this?
 
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FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Yeah, but you're comparing PPG in wins to PPG in total. EVERY team is going to see a huge jump when counting PPG in wins only.

For instance, Seattle gave up 8 points per game in their wins last year, which would have ranked 1st in NFL history.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Yeah, but you're comparing PPG in wins to PPG in total. EVERY team is going to see a huge jump when counting PPG in wins only.

For instance, Seattle gave up 8 points per game in their wins last year, which would have ranked 1st in NFL history.
By my math, the Seahawks allowed 155 points in 12 wins = 12.92 ppg.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).

That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.
Yeah but in those 5 losses Tebow also threw 5 interceptions and fumbled the ball 8 times, while throwing at a 43% completion rate. Tebow was a huge reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why the defense gave up 40+ points.
Only four of those fumbles were lost. That's 9 turnovers in 5 games which, while bad, is not outlandish when looking at only losses. That's 1.8 turnovers per game in losses. By comparison here are the turnovers per game in losses of the elitist of elite QBs last year:

Tom Brady: 1.4

Peyton Manning: 1.7

Drew Brees: 1.78

Aaron Rodgers: 1.0

 
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FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Yeah, but you're comparing PPG in wins to PPG in total. EVERY team is going to see a huge jump when counting PPG in wins only.

For instance, Seattle gave up 8 points per game in their wins last year, which would have ranked 1st in NFL history.
By my math, the Seahawks allowed 155 points in 12 wins = 12.92 ppg.
Ack, sorry, Russell Wilson was 12.9ppg. It was Alex Smith that got 8ppg allowed in his wins. I ran these numbers in the last Tebow thread and mixed those two up in my head.

 

hxperson

Footballguy
That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).

That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.
Yeah but in those 5 losses Tebow also threw 5 interceptions and fumbled the ball 8 times, while throwing at a 43% completion rate. Tebow was a huge reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why the defense gave up 40+ points.
Only four of those fumbles were lost. That's 9 turnovers in 5 games which, while bad, is not outlandish when looking at only losses. That's 1.8 turnovers per game in losses. By comparison here are the turnovers per game in losses of three elite QBs last year:

Tom Brady: 1.4

Peyton Manning: 1.7

Drew Brees: 1.78
But if your QB can't move the chains AND you are turning over the ball more often than normal, then of course your defense is going to give up a lot more points.

 

Two Deep

Footballguy
For the TEBOW LOVERS

Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the gods?
Where's the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and turn and dream
Of what I need

I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And he's gotta be larger than life

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).

That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.
Yeah but in those 5 losses Tebow also threw 5 interceptions and fumbled the ball 8 times, while throwing at a 43% completion rate. Tebow was a huge reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why the defense gave up 40+ points.
Only four of those fumbles were lost. That's 9 turnovers in 5 games which, while bad, is not outlandish when looking at only losses. That's 1.8 turnovers per game in losses. By comparison here are the turnovers per game in losses of three elite QBs last year:

Tom Brady: 1.4

Peyton Manning: 1.7

Drew Brees: 1.78
But if your QB can't move the chains AND you are turning over the ball more often than normal, then of course your defense is going to give up a lot more points.
Denver was 20th in first downs, so 12 teams were worse than them on that front.

Just picking out a few teams...

Arizona had fewer first downs and the same turnovers per loss out of their QB (1.8). They allowed 40+ zero times.

Tampa had fewer first downs and more turnovers per loss out of their QB (2.0). They allowed 40+ twice.

Chicago had fewer first downs and more turnovers per loss out of their QB (2.12). They allowed 40+ zero times.

 
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lod01

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
So we can conclude from this that just having Tebow Tim on the team makes the defense better. The guy is an all-time great.

 
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hxperson

Footballguy
That actually brings up another point. In Denver's five losses with Tebow that year, they gave up 45, 41, 40, 7, and 45 points. Even Drew Brees is 0-6 for his career when his defense gives up 40+ points (5 times with the Saints, once with the Chargers).

That also really puts into perspective just how crazy it is that Denver gave up 40+ points five times that year. That's as many times as the Saints, which are typically a bad defense themselves, have given up 40+ points in Drew Brees' entire tenure there.
Yeah but in those 5 losses Tebow also threw 5 interceptions and fumbled the ball 8 times, while throwing at a 43% completion rate. Tebow was a huge reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why the defense gave up 40+ points.
Only four of those fumbles were lost. That's 9 turnovers in 5 games which, while bad, is not outlandish when looking at only losses. That's 1.8 turnovers per game in losses. By comparison here are the turnovers per game in losses of three elite QBs last year:

Tom Brady: 1.4

Peyton Manning: 1.7

Drew Brees: 1.78
But if your QB can't move the chains AND you are turning over the ball more often than normal, then of course your defense is going to give up a lot more points.
Denver was 20th in first downs, so 12 teams were worse than them on that front.

Just picking out a few teams...

Arizona had fewer first downs and the same turnovers per loss out of their QB (1.8). They allowed 40+ zero times.

Tampa had fewer first downs and more turnovers per loss out of their QB (2.0). They allowed 40+ twice.

Chicago had fewer first downs and more turnovers per loss out of their QB (2.12). They allowed 40+ zero times.
So those teams probably had defenses better than Denver's. That doesn't mean Tebow wasn't a big reason why the Bronco's D gave up a lot of points.

 
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Anarchy99

Footballguy
Lowest completion percentage in a season since the advent of the 16-game schedule in 1978 (minimum 250 passing attempts):

1 Rusty Hilger 1988 0.4122 Doug Williams 1979 0.4183 Jay Schroeder 1988 0.4414 Akili Smith 2000 0.4425 Vince Evans 1981 0.4476 Heath Shuler 1994 0.4537 Steve Deberg 1978 0.4548 Tim Tebow 2011 0.4639 Mark Malone 1987 0.46410 Craig Whelihan 1998 0.466Tebow had the lowest completion percentage since 2000 in a league that is now a pass happy / passing friendly league.

 

humpback

Footballguy
Denver's 2011 record broken down further, based on points allowed:

0-9 points allowed: 0-1

10-19 points allowed: 5-0

20-29 points allowed: 2-0

30-39 points allowed: 1-0

40+ points allowed: 0-4

Loss in the 0-9 range, which should have been an automatic win. Most wins came in the 10-19 range, which should generally be a win about 80% of the time. 2-0 in the 20-29 range which is a toss-up, though it's worth noting one of these was against Pittsburgh who was 8-1 in games where they scored in that range. 1-0 in the 30-39 range which should generally be a loss kind of makes of for the bad loss in the 0-9 range. Most losses came in the 40+ range which most QBs have never won a game in and guys like Rogers/Brady lead the pack at around an 8% winning pct.
This isn't telling the whole story either. They gave up 45 to Detroit, but Tebow had both an INT and a fumble returned for a TD against him (and Detroit had a great offense). They gave up 41 vs. NE, but had 3 turnovers (1 by Tebow) in the 1st half in their half of the field (and, it was NE). They gave up 40 to Buffalo, but Tebow turned it over 4 times, including 2 returned for TDs (and they had a punt return TD). Then they got steamrolled by NE in the playoffs.

Also, while you aren't supposed to win games when your team gives up 40 points, you aren't supposed to get completely destroyed either. They lost those games by an average of 28.5 points.

Basically, they won a bunch of close games with him against mainly mediocre teams, and got destroyed in most of their losses with him.

 

ducktales

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Made even more amazing by the incredible amount of 3 and outs where the got NO rest.

 

lod01

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Made even more amazing by the incredible amount of 3 and outs where the got NO rest.
Those 3 and outs kept the Denver D in a nice rhythm. Credit goes to Tebow Tim.

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
The Denver defense allowed 15, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, an 23 points in their 8 wins with Tebow in 2011. That works out to 17.5 ppg. That would have ranked 5th in fewest points allowed over the entire season.
Made even more amazing by the incredible amount of 3 and outs where the got NO rest.
Those 3 and outs kept the Denver D in a nice rhythm. Credit goes to Tebow Tim.
You got a point there. PLus gave them some extra practice.

 

lod01

Footballguy

ducktales

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.

But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
jason collins says hi

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
:lmao: jason collins says hi
Jason Collins came out to the world and received lots of media attention. Briefly. America is pretty much over it now and he doesn't have millions of fans freaking out about how he shouldn't be a FA, and not only that, but that he should be getting starter minutes.In fact, nearly every metric out there shows why Collins should probably retire, or at best continue to be an end-of-bench type player averaging few minutes per game. And NBA fans understand this and aren't clamoring for him. Miraculously, at the exact same time, nobody is blaming his current unemployment on the fact that he's gay. GASP!Turns out that gay NBA fans are smarter than religious NFL fans when it comes to Collins and Tebow, respectively.
 
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ducktales

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.

But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
jason collins says hi
Jason Collins came out to the world and received lots of media attention. Briefly. America is pretty much over it now and he doesn't have millions of fans freaking out about how he shouldn't be a FA, and not only that, but that he should be getting starter minutes.In fact, nearly every metric out there shows why Collins should probably retire, or at best continue to be an end-of-bench type player averaging few minutes per game. And NBA fans understand this and aren't clamoring for him. Miraculously, at the exact same time, nobody is blaming his current unemployment on the fact that he's gay. GASP!

Turns out that gay NBA fans are smarter than religious NFL fans when it comes to Collins and Tebow, respectively.
the playoffs didn't even end yet, what are you smoking?

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
:lmao: jason collins says hi
Jason Collins came out to the world and received lots of media attention. Briefly. America is pretty much over it now and he doesn't have millions of fans freaking out about how he shouldn't be a FA, and not only that, but that he should be getting starter minutes.In fact, nearly every metric out there shows why Collins should probably retire, or at best continue to be an end-of-bench type player averaging few minutes per game. And NBA fans understand this and aren't clamoring for him. Miraculously, at the exact same time, nobody is blaming his current unemployment on the fact that he's gay. GASP!Turns out that gay NBA fans are smarter than religious NFL fans when it comes to Collins and Tebow, respectively.
the playoffs didn't even end yet, what are you smoking?
There's tons of stuff out there about how he's unlikely to be signed, and how he possibly shouldn't be signed. For on the court reasons. I'd like to see you attempt to address the rest of the post, instead of picking out the least important part. The point was that there are not legions of gay NBA fans, or even just gay casual followers of the NBA, crying out about what an unappreciated stud Collins is, in the face of impending FA.
 

Late225

Footballguy
Is he still glued to being a quarterback? Seems like a perfect guy for a fullback hand off passing option play. That play was good in Madden when you moved Antwan Randle El (or another college quarterback) to running back. Seems like a good fit for a team to carry a third fullback.

It would also give a team an option to have an emergency quarterback and not carry one on the roster. Let's just wait for training camp and fullback injuries.

 

ducktales

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.

But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
jason collins says hi
Jason Collins came out to the world and received lots of media attention. Briefly. America is pretty much over it now and he doesn't have millions of fans freaking out about how he shouldn't be a FA, and not only that, but that he should be getting starter minutes.In fact, nearly every metric out there shows why Collins should probably retire, or at best continue to be an end-of-bench type player averaging few minutes per game. And NBA fans understand this and aren't clamoring for him. Miraculously, at the exact same time, nobody is blaming his current unemployment on the fact that he's gay. GASP!

Turns out that gay NBA fans are smarter than religious NFL fans when it comes to Collins and Tebow, respectively.
the playoffs didn't even end yet, what are you smoking?
There's tons of stuff out there about how he's unlikely to be signed, and how he possibly shouldn't be signed. For on the court reasons. I'd like to see you attempt to address the rest of the post, instead of picking out the least important part. The point was that there are not legions of gay NBA fans, or even just gay casual followers of the NBA, crying out about what an unappreciated stud Collins is, in the face of impending FA.
oh , okay

" He is a free agent, available to all 30 NBA teams. Let's see if the progressive-minded league's actions match its laudable words of support."

http://articles.courant.com/2013-05-09/news/hc-op-simpson-jason-collins-gay-basketball-player--20130509_1_gay-athlete-sports-illustrated-role-player

another words everything you just said was wrong, and people think if old crappy player collins doesn't get signed --when he doesnt deserve to-- the league isn't being progressive.

Even a simple person --even you should get it-- knows that if collins doesn't get signed to a team by august there will be a lot of people crying their eyes out saying he is being discriminated against.

The difference between Collins and Tebow is Tebow is actually young with a lot of potential, not old and crappy.

So when collins gets signed --even with his media circus-- and tebow doesn't, realize its because being a christian isn't popular in the media but being gay is.

 

ConnSKINS26

Footballguy
if only tebow was gay instead of a christian he'd be a starting QB, but at least he doesn't have to deal with a certain pain and a funny walk.
Tebow still would not be a starting caliber passer, and so would not be a starting QB in the NFL.But if he was gay, he probably would not have the manic following he now does and would bring less of a circus with him, so he might at least be on a roster.

But football talent is always the biggest factor. At QB, unfortunately for Tebow that includes being able to throw the ball effectively against NFL defenses.
jason collins says hi
Jason Collins came out to the world and received lots of media attention. Briefly. America is pretty much over it now and he doesn't have millions of fans freaking out about how he shouldn't be a FA, and not only that, but that he should be getting starter minutes.In fact, nearly every metric out there shows why Collins should probably retire, or at best continue to be an end-of-bench type player averaging few minutes per game. And NBA fans understand this and aren't clamoring for him. Miraculously, at the exact same time, nobody is blaming his current unemployment on the fact that he's gay. GASP!

Turns out that gay NBA fans are smarter than religious NFL fans when it comes to Collins and Tebow, respectively.
the playoffs didn't even end yet, what are you smoking?
There's tons of stuff out there about how he's unlikely to be signed, and how he possibly shouldn't be signed. For on the court reasons. I'd like to see you attempt to address the rest of the post, instead of picking out the least important part. The point was that there are not legions of gay NBA fans, or even just gay casual followers of the NBA, crying out about what an unappreciated stud Collins is, in the face of impending FA.
oh , okay " He is a free agent, available to all 30 NBA teams. Let's see if the progressive-minded league's actions match its laudable words of support."

http://articles.courant.com/2013-05-09/news/hc-op-simpson-jason-collins-gay-basketball-player--20130509_1_gay-athlete-sports-illustrated-role-player

another words everything you just said was wrong, and people think if old crappy player collins doesn't get signed --when he doesnt deserve to-- the league isn't being progressive.

Even a simple person --even you should get it-- knows that if collins doesn't get signed to a team by august there will be a lot of people crying their eyes out saying he is being discriminated against.

The difference between Collins and Tebow is Tebow is actually young with a lot of potential, not old and crappy.

So when collins gets signed --even with his media circus-- and tebow doesn't, realize its because being a christian isn't popular in the media but being gay is.
That's one article. And it specifically says that if he's signed, it will be for his locker room presence because his on-court performance doesn't merit it. Which is why its unlikely to happen.You didn't address what I actually said--where are the millions of fans screaming about how unfair it will be if he's not picked up? Saying he should start, much less even be signed when the time comes? I don't see it. I don't see legions of gay NBA fans crying about this.

You know, you still have time to be gay, rather than Christian. Apparently it would make life so much easier for you.

 
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az_prof

Footballguy
You guys are just haters. It's abundantly clear that the NFL is blackballing Christians based on a massive conspiracy involving our radical President and the liberal media. When Tebow comes out of the closet and his true birth certificate from Kenya comes to light you'll all be singing a different tune and he can take his place in the HOF as the best QB evah...
hahaha. I don't know if Tebow could be a great NFL QB or not. I think he did enough in Denver to merit more of a chance than he has been given.

As an agnostic, I am not of the belief that he is blackballed because of his religion, but I do believe he is effectively blackballed. Why?

First, most NFL coaches are risk average and not very creative. Most teams imitate whatever the latest recipe was. Not too many want to be the innovator because if you fail and you do something different, you are toast. On the other hand, if you follow the recipe and you are mediocre, you can hang onto your job for two or three years and even then will get an Asst job with someone else, maybe even another starting job.

So, Tebow is not your stereotypical QB. He will take a creative OC and HC to design an offense for him and then take a chance. Most would rather be mediocre and hope that the cards fall their way.

So, why don't the half a dozen truly great minds take a chance. If they are not on a rebuilding team, and most of the best are not, they don't want Tebow as the backup because of the pressure to start him if the starter is hurt or falters. They may be intrigued by him but it is just easier to have a backup who has lower ceiling, but is more plug and play, and won't require them to rearrange offensive scheme that much, plus they don't have to worry about politics of fans.

That doesn't make him a failed QB as some maintain. No one knows if he is or not. He has played better than most of the backups and at least a half a dozen starters in the league, albeit in limited time. And he has never enjoyed an offseason as the guy, getting the reps and having an offense built specifically for him. Denver did adjust, but it wasn't like that offense was built for him from the start--it was cobbled together on the fly.

 

Buffaloes

Footballguy
First, most NFL coaches are risk average and not very creative. Most teams imitate whatever the latest recipe was. Not too many want to be the innovator because if you fail and you do something different, you are toast.
this is pretty much what Washington did w/ RGIII, SF did with Kaep, and to a lesser degree what Seattle did w/ Russell last year. the difference is those QBs can read defences, make all the throws, and were all more accurate passers that TT.

all that said, it would be fun to watch a team take the chance, but I doubt they would be even as successful as the 8-8 2011 Denver team.

 
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Witz

Footballguy
You guys are just haters. It's abundantly clear that the NFL is blackballing Christians based on a massive conspiracy involving our radical President and the liberal media. When Tebow comes out of the closet and his true birth certificate from Kenya comes to light you'll all be singing a different tune and he can take his place in the HOF as the best QB evah...
hahaha. I don't know if Tebow could be a great NFL QB or not. I think he did enough in Denver to merit more of a chance than he has been given.

As an agnostic, I am not of the belief that he is blackballed because of his religion, but I do believe he is effectively blackballed. Why?

First, most NFL coaches are risk average and not very creative. Most teams imitate whatever the latest recipe was. Not too many want to be the innovator because if you fail and you do something different, you are toast. On the other hand, if you follow the recipe and you are mediocre, you can hang onto your job for two or three years and even then will get an Asst job with someone else, maybe even another starting job.

So, Tebow is not your stereotypical QB. He will take a creative OC and HC to design an offense for him and then take a chance. Most would rather be mediocre and hope that the cards fall their way.

So, why don't the half a dozen truly great minds take a chance. If they are not on a rebuilding team, and most of the best are not, they don't want Tebow as the backup because of the pressure to start him if the starter is hurt or falters. They may be intrigued by him but it is just easier to have a backup who has lower ceiling, but is more plug and play, and won't require them to rearrange offensive scheme that much, plus they don't have to worry about politics of fans.

That doesn't make him a failed QB as some maintain. No one knows if he is or not. He has played better than most of the backups and at least a half a dozen starters in the league, albeit in limited time. And he has never enjoyed an offseason as the guy, getting the reps and having an offense built specifically for him. Denver did adjust, but it wasn't like that offense was built for him from the start--it was cobbled together on the fly.
Let's say a team takes a chance on Tebow. They design an offense specifically to suit his specific skill set - now this is an offense that none of the other teams in the league are running (or have run) because they've geared it specifically for Tebow. They practice it in all of the mini-camps, through pre-season and they start the season and Tebow gets hurt in week 2.

Now what? What happens now? Maybe you also picked up a QB that could somewhat mirror what Tebow did but most likely, you'll have to revamp your offense in a shortened period of time to configure to the skill sets that all other QB's in the league have.

No team in their right mind is going to do this. It's not that teams aren't creative or want to be the innovator or do something different - the fact is that injuries happen and are part of the game. Why risk your entire season on the skill set of a single individual that based on your stance no one else has?

 

Witz

Footballguy
Also - not sure why a new thread on Tebow was needed when there was already one (and one that contained most of the arguments already being made above).

 

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