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Tennis - Sinner accepts three month ban - won't miss Roland Garros (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Master of Past and Present
- Start date
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Nice shot of Ken Rosewall picking his nose
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I agree with the latter. The tech made the game worse imo.
These guys are doing things with the ball that shouldn't be possible.
I don't see how you go back tho
Guess it is about who pays the tour more. Racket companies or networks?
Surprised racket companies could transform a sport. Would be like Louisville Slugger convinced MLB to go with aluminum bats.
Very short-sighted.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Baseball is a good comparison. If the style of bat wasn't regulated there are clearly better sticks. Corked bats, aluminum, etc. Regulation kept the game in check. Tennis has probably allowed rackets and strings to be too good
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I imagine if you're a fan of anyone but djoker that this is what it was like if you were a fan of someone besides Federer from 04 to 07. Djoker hasn't strung all the seasons consecutively like Roger, but the dominance is similar.
It sucks to feel like your guy had no shot. You resort to hoping the alpha dog gets hurt, which is kinda Richard ish.
It sucks to feel like your guy had no shot. You resort to hoping the alpha dog gets hurt, which is kinda Richard ish.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The chance was there. I know cilic was on fire, but losing to him in the 14 uso semi was the big chance. Obviously when you are making sf and finals still, any tournament outside clay is an opportunity. But much like Rogers path to the 09 fo title, he needs a little help now.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Roger could still win one (or maybe more) if Joker gets injured - not rooting for that, but just saying it is possible as I think he's essentially the 2nd best player still after all these years. I don't think these losses to Djokovic really hurts Federer's GOAT status. And if he somehow managed to win one of these against him it probably cements things.
dino259
Footballguy
Bowling is just like this. The new bowling balls are so powerful. There is a series of junior tournaments where they are only allowed to use the same 2 low power balls to emphasis the shot making aspect. The pros had a couple of these tourneys as well. It would be interesting to have a one off tennis tourney where they have to all use the same racket from 20 to 30 years ago.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
As an actual tennis player, I grew up in the early to mid 80s, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl, Wilander, then Becker, Edberg, Agassi...
Men's tennis has been in decline for some time. I felt like back in the day any of the top 5 or 10 could take down a toruney. You even had guys on the perimeters who could show up like a young Michael Chang, Yannick Noah, Aaron Krickstein, you never knew when you got to the round of 16 what might happen.
Now it's all 1 or 2 guys and has been for some time. I appreciate Sampress but other than Agassi who wasn't that good(sorry to burst your bubble) nothing to push him. Who did he beat for all those titles on grass? Agassi wasn't that good when he was young when some of the other names I mentioned were still playing. Once they all retired he was last man standing with Pete. Was there ever a more vanilla athlete at the top than Sampress? Ruined men's tennis for a while.
Djokovic 2nd all time? You all have short memories.
Men's tennis has been in decline for some time. I felt like back in the day any of the top 5 or 10 could take down a toruney. You even had guys on the perimeters who could show up like a young Michael Chang, Yannick Noah, Aaron Krickstein, you never knew when you got to the round of 16 what might happen.
Now it's all 1 or 2 guys and has been for some time. I appreciate Sampress but other than Agassi who wasn't that good(sorry to burst your bubble) nothing to push him. Who did he beat for all those titles on grass? Agassi wasn't that good when he was young when some of the other names I mentioned were still playing. Once they all retired he was last man standing with Pete. Was there ever a more vanilla athlete at the top than Sampress? Ruined men's tennis for a while.
Djokovic 2nd all time? You all have short memories.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Maybe I have a short memory but best of my life is federer, Sampras, Joker, and Nadal on clay.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
History really doesn't support your post. Let's look at the number of different men that won at least 1 grand slam in each decade:
80s : 12
90s : 15
00s : 15
10s : 6 (obviously just a little over half the decade complete)
The tour was much deeper in the 90s & 00s than it was in the 80s. It is definitely top loaded so far in the 10s but unfair to completely judge the decade since who knows what the next couple of years bring.
You mention Noah, Chang & Krickstein...a total of 2 Grand Slams between the 3 of them and both at the French. Noah never made another GS final and only one other time ever made the SFs. Krickstein never made a GS final and only reach a GS SF twice in his career. Chang did make 4 GS finals on multiple surfaces and definitely had the best career out of the three but I would put him on par career wise with someone like Del Potro.
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Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Don't like the baseball comparison, safety is an issue there, pitchers could be killed if they let major leaguers use stuff with bigger pop. There is no fear of killing someone in tennis with more racket power or the ability to add more spin.
Agassi wasn't that good? He was really unfocused for a lot of his career but he had tons of talent. He certainly didn't max it out. Guy cared more about his fake hair staying attached then winning matches at times.
I think mens tennis is in much better shape than it used to be. At one point you had different tours where this group would play these sponsors tournies and that group another. Guys would rack up tons of wins over nobodies except the finals when the few big names at the tourney would finally meet.
Today, it is much more focused. 4 majors, 9 Master 1000 events, World Tour Final, and then a crap load of 500 and 250 to round out your schedule.
Don't worry, in a few years when Djokovic and Murray are on the downside of their career, it looks like you'll have plenty of variety of who will win. There doesn't seem to be a new big 2,3, or 4 on the horizon.
But just because then there might be 5-10 guys who could win any single major, doesn't mean the tennis will be better, just the result more unpredictable. In the 8 majors from Wimbledon 2001 to French 2003, you had 7 different winners and 4 guys win their only major. Extend that a year long to French 2004 and you have 10 different winners in 12 majors, 6 guys winning their only major. I can't think of a time I've heard anyone say that was some great stretch of tennis though.
Agassi wasn't that good? He was really unfocused for a lot of his career but he had tons of talent. He certainly didn't max it out. Guy cared more about his fake hair staying attached then winning matches at times.
I think mens tennis is in much better shape than it used to be. At one point you had different tours where this group would play these sponsors tournies and that group another. Guys would rack up tons of wins over nobodies except the finals when the few big names at the tourney would finally meet.
Today, it is much more focused. 4 majors, 9 Master 1000 events, World Tour Final, and then a crap load of 500 and 250 to round out your schedule.
Don't worry, in a few years when Djokovic and Murray are on the downside of their career, it looks like you'll have plenty of variety of who will win. There doesn't seem to be a new big 2,3, or 4 on the horizon.
But just because then there might be 5-10 guys who could win any single major, doesn't mean the tennis will be better, just the result more unpredictable. In the 8 majors from Wimbledon 2001 to French 2003, you had 7 different winners and 4 guys win their only major. Extend that a year long to French 2004 and you have 10 different winners in 12 majors, 6 guys winning their only major. I can't think of a time I've heard anyone say that was some great stretch of tennis though.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Great list and if you are around 30 yrs old give or take I would understand this list. I was getting into tennis right as Borg-McEnroe was cooling down. Johhny Mac in his prime was a force. He had Borg to push him early, Connors in his prime.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Maybe American men's tennis had more players. Also I am not just speaking of Grand Slams. Regular tennis players will tune in and watch a lot of these tourneys that fill up the in between time of the Slams which really is a big 2-3 month push in summer and then nothing until the Aussie in the winter time here.
If you want to simply focus on the Slams, have at it. I am saying there was more competition and I disagree with you taking the Slam numbers as the only comparison. Nobody challenged Sampress at Wimbledon. Navratilova is considered perhaps the greatest, unfortunate many in here never saw her play, but she had Chrissy to push her in every one of those. In fact women's tennis got a lot more interesting in the 90s and 00s when the field widened out beyond just 2 players. I understand Serena has dominated but there has also been a bevy of really good female players she has kicked butt against. I think Serena might be the greatest of all time, man or woman just because of the level of competition and how truly great she is.
Serena vs Steffi Graf in a grand slam final, just once, it would have been something. They did meet twice in '99, one at Indian Wells, a notch below the grand slams but Serena beat her at 17 years of age.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I use grand slams as a basis point because they are the tourneys that have the best, most complete field of players. As Master of Past And Present pointed out a few posts earlier there used to be two tours (Grand Prix & World Championship) until the ATP was formed in 1990. I was a tennis junkie growing up, if I wasn't playing myself I was spending a lot of free time watching the pros.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
How much weight is the off court aspect between today and the 80's? By all accounts the big named guys in the 80's loved to party. Compare that to the big 4 of today and it seems quite the opposite. So if you want to compare the variety of winners between the two eras, it would seem you are punishing today's top guys for not harming their chances and giving a pass to the 80's because they liked to have late nights and might not be in the best mental or physical shape the next match.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Bjorn loved to party, here is what his ex-wife wrote about him:
Italian singer Loredana Berté, Björn Borg's wife between 1988 and 1992, paints a withering portrait of the tennis legend in her new memoirs, which shed light on theSwede's drug abuseand cavorting with prostitutes.
"His obsession with cocainehad become irremediable. He had become a danger to society. In Milan, Borg would go out on to the street and ask passers-by for drugs. He needed his fix. Hedidn't care about anything, not his reputation or the consequences", Berté recounts.
"He'd ask me for 5 million lire in cash and then I'd hear that he'd taken a whole pack of Rohypnol, the date-rape drug. He never changed, it was always the same old story. In 1989he tried to commit suicideand was only saved by having his stomach pumped", she goes on.
Berté admits that she helped egg Borg on: "We'd play strange games, dares between two crazy people, which is what we'd become. Once he stuck a gun in my mouthto play Russian roulette".
As well as drugs,sex became a problemfor the former world number 1: "To rekindle the spark erotically, Bjorn said I should try having sex with him and other people at the same time. He wanted to have an orgy, but the mere thought of it disgusted me".
"He rented out the whole second floor of a hotel to fill it withprostitutes. He personally called reception and asked them to bring him very whorish girls. It made me sick. Several of them turned up wearing fur coats and with whips in their hands. He came over to me and tried to convince me to join in. 'You have to take a step forward, Loredana, a mental leap', he told me. I was blunt. 'You're a fool, I'll smash your head in', I replied. Then I left".
I think MIlos wins tonight. He's been playing great, and best of all, he's winning without tie breakers. Tennis players all seem to have big jumps when they find the right coach. A little tweak here and there, confidence soars, and eventually winning leads to more winning. I think Moya will lead Milos to a few majors. I believe the improvement in his return game will be similar to the improvement in Joker's service game. Good chance he separates himself from the second tier and sets up shop with the best. Don't think he can beat Novak though.
Side note, during one of his previous matches, they mentioned that he beat Nadal and Stan in a non ATP event in Dubai or something. Did I hear that right? If so, that's Fed, Stan x2 and Nadal without a lose. Pretty impressive.
Side note, during one of his previous matches, they mentioned that he beat Nadal and Stan in a non ATP event in Dubai or something. Did I hear that right? If so, that's Fed, Stan x2 and Nadal without a lose. Pretty impressive.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
This is interesting. I believe JMac was exposed to drugs, not sure how much he took although I am pretty sure it ended his marriage with Tatum quickly once he discovered she was all about the drugs at the time.
Jimmy Connors like to drink, that was pretty widely known.
But Agassi used drugs at certain points.
I think the lack of competition these days makes it easier for the top players to dominate. When I was a kid I was around a lot of tennis even though we were at best lower middle class, and now I have to really seek out tennis and I live in a very pro-tennis state in Florida. You can play year round although summers more after sunset.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Looks like he beat Stan and Kevin Anderson, lost to Nadal in the final of Abu Dhabi exo tourney.
I'd take Murray to win but can't argue with the reasoning behind Milos taking it.
tdoss
Footballguy
It IS an oddity to me.I grew up in the 70's and 80's in Southern Virginia...in what is now the poorest county in VA. I grew up broke as a joke...and even I played tennis pretty regularly.
But I'm now in sunny Socal and I'm seeing the same thing...the tennis courts are sometimes hard to find and when you do...they're empty.
It's so strange to me. Kids just don't seem to have the same interest level anymore.
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Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Raonic continuing to hit bombs this tournament.
His first and definitely second serves are massive.
Looking like a top 4 player.
His first and definitely second serves are massive.
Looking like a top 4 player.
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Average second serve so far... 111 mph 
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
Ended up being the only break Raonic would get in the match. Has to be a disappointing loss for him.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I tend to agree although not sure it will be that much of a bloodbath. Nole having an extra day and the easier SF obviously helps him though. I don't believe the other GS events stagger their SFs on different days, is there a reason the Australian does?
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The answer is probably money.. then again it might not be... tennis can be weird... Wimbledon turns down huge bucks having that stupid first sunday rule
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
My best guess is the Aussie is just keeping the schedule constant until it can't. When the first day schedule is set, you know exactly what days each player is going to play. Half play on day 1, half on day 2, and if you started odd you stay odd and even stays even. Only the Final can't continue this so they decide to sync it up then.
I think it would make more sense for them to get it synced up on SF so two players are playing each other with 1 day rest and two others with 2 days. Then the finals would be both players would have 1 day before he Final.
Maybe it could be the fact they think/want to have a mens match each day until the women's final. Maybe they don't think the women alone would be a good singles card so they keep a mens SF.
I think it would make more sense for them to get it synced up on SF so two players are playing each other with 1 day rest and two others with 2 days. Then the finals would be both players would have 1 day before he Final.
Maybe it could be the fact they think/want to have a mens match each day until the women's final. Maybe they don't think the women alone would be a good singles card so they keep a mens SF.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Kerber was match point down in round one.
What an effort to win it all.
What an effort to win it all.
His serve never came back after the injury. Speed fell off a cliff, and the match changed completely. It's too bad we're not watching him tonight, but doubt anyone is beating Novak tonight.
