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Texans Interested in Bruce (1 Viewer)

David Yudkin

Footballguy
LINK

I guess several teams are interested in Bruce, but the Texans seem to be verbalizing it. Could an offense with Johnson, Bruce, Bush, Carr, and Davis (with better playcalling) evolve and post decent fantasy numbers?

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
LINK

I guess several teams are interested in Bruce, but the Texans seem to be verbalizing it. Could an offense with Johnson, Bruce, Bush, Carr, and Davis (with better playcalling) evolve and post decent fantasy numbers?
yes
 

Mr. Vegas

Footballguy
LINK

I guess several teams are interested in Bruce, but the Texans seem to be verbalizing it. Could an offense with Johnson, Bruce, Bush, Carr, and Davis (with better playcalling) evolve and post decent fantasy numbers?
Stop that, if He goes there He's better off retiring.
 

PsychoMan

Footballguy
pssst bruce --- go to chicago! you would love it! c'mon, u gots to have love for orton, baby!

:D

 
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coolnerd

Footballguy
Unless Bruce can block at the line and give Carr more time to pass, what's the point?
It about the Texans literally don't have WR not name Andre Johnson who has ever been a clear number 3 (actual NFL) on thier roster, much less a starter.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
LINK

I guess several teams are interested in Bruce, but the Texans seem to be verbalizing it.  Could an offense with Johnson, Bruce, Bush, Carr, and Davis (with better playcalling) evolve and post decent fantasy numbers?
good point, david...sometimes if a team can even improve one key variable, if it is the right kind, it can have a big impact & ripple through to make others on the team better...

the texans could have three fairly sizeable events that could send shockwaves through their landscape next season, that you cited (plus some others)...

1 - bush... arguably greatest college RB ever & best pro prospect since barry sanders...

2 - bruce... runs some of best intermediate routes & gets open in traffic better than about 95% of the league's WRs...

3 - kubiak... scheme could be better at putting playmakers in position to make more plays...

also,

4 - with the salary cap boost, they might have extra money to shore up interior OL & RT (pitts is a solid young LT, & i think they just reupped with center)... i'm guessing they will be viewed as an up 'n coming tem by vet FAs... plus there is draft after round 1... in round 2, it is very possible they could get OG like jean-gilles or second tier RT... probably not mcneil but maybe kid from texas...

5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...

* bruce is a professional & the veteran influence on a young, inexperienced team about how to work & prepare to be a pro could be incalculable... the rams will regret losing him if he gets away... another idiotic move by zygmunt & shaw (among a litany of them) in recent seasons in failing to re-sign core players...

if bruce teaches a physical specimen with a good work ethic like andre johnson a thing or two about route running... setting up DBs, changing speeds, identifying soft spots in zone & other WR-skills arcana... 'dre could soon be scaring the bejeezus out of opposing DCs & terrorizing secondaries for most of the next decade... get used to it, opposing afc south fans... :)

 
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Bri

Footballguy
4 - with the salary cap boost, they might have extra money to shore up interior OL & RT (pitts is a solid young LT, & i think they just reupped with center
mckinney
 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
Unless Bruce can block at the line and give Carr more time to pass, what's the point?
It about the Texans literally don't have WR not name Andre Johnson who has ever been a clear number 3 (actual NFL) on thier roster, much less a starter.
English teacher?
 

diesel7982

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
 

Bri

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
kickoffs aren't caught?
 
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coolnerd

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
kickoffs aren't caught?
Mathis had trouble fielding punts and did not show good WR skills except for straightline speed.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
put him in the slot... hand it to him... roll it to him... :)
 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
Hmmm...now that sounds like an idea that makes some sense. :)

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=4433372
Good call dawg, but you listed 1/3 of the league. ;)
How is that remotely a good call? He even said that was the team he was most reluctant to include. Sweet Jesus, does everybody around here have to link to obscure threads where they briefly mentioned one name? Tell you what-I'm going to start twenty or so threads tossing out general predictions-If one comes vaguely true I'm going to bump it to show how clever I was.

:rolleyes: :yucky:

 

Bri

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
kickoffs aren't caught?
Mathis had trouble fielding punts and did not show good WR skills except for straightline speed.
I "beat up" rookies as much or more than anyone. I think you guys are too hard on him.
 

coolnerd

Footballguy
5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...
Having the speed to get downfield doesnt matter when you cant catch or find the ball in the air.
kickoffs aren't caught?
Mathis had trouble fielding punts and did not show good WR skills except for straightline speed.
I "beat up" rookies as much or more than anyone. I think you guys are too hard on him.
To be fair, he had hamstring trouble for much of the year. The previous administration wanted to get his raw speed on the field so Mathis practiced very little at WR for much of the season. This paid off in terms of kick-off returns, but he was taken out the role of PR and his development as a WR was put on hold. That said, when he was in @ WR (small sample), Mathis did not look natural catching the ball nor ran good routes.
 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
AJ has a very long way to go before his production comes anywhere near equaling his fantasy hype. I think the Texans will be much improved (how can they not be?) but right now I still think Andre will be drafted too early in most leagues.

 

SoloMatisse

Footballguy
Bruce is trying to win...he'll never go to Houston. Retiring with dignity and not getting killed by taking awful passes from an awful QB are Im sure NOT what he has in mind. If you draft him, you'll be drafting him as a St Louis Ram.

 

Bri

Footballguy
Bruce is trying to win...he'll never go to Houston. Retiring with dignity and not getting killed by taking awful passes from an awful QB are Im sure NOT what he has in mind. If you draft him, you'll be drafting him as a St Louis Ram.
KC
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
Unless Bruce can block at the line and give Carr more time to pass, what's the point?
As a season ticket holder who can watch what's going on downfield as well as watching the QB and line like the TV shows you, I'd say the Texan's passing game woes were a glorious combination of just about everything that could go wrong. Sort of a Perfect Storm of Sacking if you will. Amongst the problems were:* The line sucks at pass blocking.

* Carr is fast, but not elusive, and sometimes displayed a deer-in-headlights mentality and bailed when he could have bought more time.

* Carr needs to make faster decisions.

* The receivers other than AJ weren't getting open consistently, and AJ was getting double-covered.

* Palmer was calling routes that often had no realistic chance given how short a time the O-line was lasting... the routes were deep enough that Carr often had pressure already when the WR was making their cut. Last year they did a lot of short slants and WR screens to AJ to alleviate this, but teams learned to sit on them and Palmer didn't adjust. Pendry came in and he at least started throwing short outs and curls that Carr had time to get the ball off, but then he never built on that.

* When the Texans line was getting beat, Palmer seemed to not make adjustments to the protection. Though I don't remember Freeney doing as much this year, last year he was just schooling them play after play, yet the Texans weren't chipping him with a RB or TE or the other things you would expect. I think Pendry improved things there too, but obviously still short of NFL standards.

* The coaching staff lost the team the last game of 2004 and never got them back in 2005.

Signing Bruce will help with one of the parts, about receivers not getting open. The new coaching staff I can only hope will go a long way to alleviating the latter 3 problems. In short, the line is a problem, but it isn't the only problem. The Texans do need another weapon in the passing game. That is also one reason that people can support getting a Reggie Bush even when we do need line help... he can help given how many think he can be Marshal Faulk-like in his ability to be split out as a WR.

 

psychobillies

Footballguy
LINK

I guess several teams are interested in Bruce, but the Texans seem to be verbalizing it.  Could an offense with Johnson, Bruce, Bush, Carr, and Davis (with better playcalling) evolve and post decent fantasy numbers?
good point, david...sometimes if a team can even improve one key variable, if it is the right kind, it can have a big impact & ripple through to make others on the team better...

the texans could have three fairly sizeable events that could send shockwaves through their landscape next season, that you cited (plus some others)...

1 - bush... arguably greatest college RB ever & best pro prospect since barry sanders...

2 - bruce... runs some of best intermediate routes & gets open in traffic better than about 95% of the league's WRs...

3 - kubiak... scheme could be better at putting playmakers in position to make more plays...

also,

4 - with the salary cap boost, they might have extra money to shore up interior OL & RT (pitts is a solid young LT, & i think they just reupped with center)... i'm guessing they will be viewed as an up 'n coming tem by vet FAs... plus there is draft after round 1... in round 2, it is very possible they could get OG like jean-gilles or second tier RT... probably not mcneil but maybe kid from texas...

5 - mathis is one of fastest players in NFL (along with bennett... he was gaining ground on deangelo hall in the short spring at pro bowl) & could be a dangerous WR3 in the slot...

* bruce is a professional & the veteran influence on a young, inexperienced team about how to work & prepare to be a pro could be incalculable... the rams will regret losing him if he gets away... another idiotic move by zygmunt & shaw (among a litany of them) in recent seasons in failing to re-sign core players...

if bruce teaches a physical specimen with a good work ethic like andre johnson a thing or two about route running... setting up DBs, changing speeds, identifying soft spots in zone & other WR-skills arcana... 'dre could soon be scaring the bejeezus out of opposing DCs & terrorizing secondaries for most of the next decade... get used to it, opposing afc south fans... :)
Don't forget that they have the first two picks in the third round as well. Plenty of good linemen come out of the third round.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
...

* bruce is a professional & the veteran influence on a young, inexperienced team about how to work & prepare to be a pro could be incalculable... the rams will regret losing him if he gets away... another idiotic move by zygmunt & shaw (among a litany of them) in recent seasons in failing to re-sign core players...

if bruce teaches a physical specimen with a good work ethic like andre johnson a thing or two about route running... setting up DBs, changing speeds, identifying soft spots in zone & other WR-skills arcana... 'dre could soon be scaring the bejeezus out of opposing DCs & terrorizing secondaries for most of the next decade... get used to it, opposing afc south fans... :)
Don't forget that they have the first two picks in the third round as well. Plenty of good linemen come out of the third round.
I think Bob brings up a very valid point that you don't hear as much as you should when talking about the Texans. This is a team without a lot of veteran leadership. They got rid of Sharper and Glenn. Dunta is emerging as a leader, but he's still young. They haven't had what I would call a legitimate veteran presence in the receiving corp other than Marc Bruener. I think what Bruce could bring to the team in that respect is something that is easy to gloss over, but that could pay big dividends for the team.
 
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Rozelle

Moderator
The Texans will be much better on offense thanks primarily to the hiring of Kubiak, IMO
Absolutley! quote from GregR Carr is fast, but not elusive, and sometimes displayed a deer-in-headlights mentality and bailed when he could have bought more time.

* Carr needs to make faster decisions.

This is because Carr is shelled shocked, but Kubiak will fix that. Then as Bob suggested, add a Reggie Bush and maybe a Issac Bruce (and everything he can bring) and this offense could really be something special. Kubiak is no dummy, he know he needs to address the O-line. I look for Houston target Putzier and give Carr another option in the passing game, obviosly he is familar with Kubiak's system.

The Defense may not need as much work as meets the eye, a scheme better suited for the talent may be a good place to start. But I expect it to be a liability for the next couple of years until they can get better talent.

If they can have a good draft, pick up some key FA's, this team will make increadable strides.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
The Texans will be much better on offense thanks primarily to the hiring of Kubiak, IMO
Absolutley! quote from GregR Carr is fast, but not elusive, and sometimes displayed a deer-in-headlights mentality and bailed when he could have bought more time.

* Carr needs to make faster decisions.

This is because Carr is shelled shocked, but Kubiak will fix that. Then as Bob suggested, add a Reggie Bush and maybe a Issac Bruce (and everything he can bring) and this offense could really be something special. Kubiak is no dummy, he know he needs to address the O-line. I look for Houston target Putzier and give Carr another option in the passing game, obviosly he is familar with Kubiak's system.

The Defense may not need as much work as meets the eye, a scheme better suited for the talent may be a good place to start. But I expect it to be a liability for the next couple of years until they can get better talent.

If they can have a good draft, pick up some key FA's, this team will make increadable strides.
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
 

Bri

Footballguy
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
Bledsoe
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
I think it is a definite concern. I do think Carr may be able to turn it around, enough so that it plays a big role in why I don't think the Texans should select Leinart or Young, or trade down for Cutler.But at the same time, I think there is enough risk Carr can't turn it around that the Texans will need to find someone to offset their risk at backup QB. I know a lot of my friends here in Houston were comfortable with Tony Banks as someone experienced who could come in and play a few games in case of injury.

But I really think Houston needs to look at getting a guy who has enough potential he could end up a worthwhile starter, but not someone you plan to hang your hat on completely. So I was glad to see Banks released. Hopefully they plan to pick up someone else with more potential as a backup.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
Bledsoe
Bledsoe still folds under any kind of pressure
 

Rozelle

Moderator
The Texans will be much better on offense thanks primarily to the hiring of Kubiak, IMO
Absolutley! quote from GregR Carr is fast, but not elusive, and sometimes displayed a deer-in-headlights mentality and bailed when he could have bought more time.

* Carr needs to make faster decisions.

This is because Carr is shelled shocked, but Kubiak will fix that. Then as Bob suggested, add a Reggie Bush and maybe a Issac Bruce (and everything he can bring) and this offense could really be something special. Kubiak is no dummy, he know he needs to address the O-line. I look for Houston target Putzier and give Carr another option in the passing game, obviosly he is familar with Kubiak's system.

The Defense may not need as much work as meets the eye, a scheme better suited for the talent may be a good place to start. But I expect it to be a liability for the next couple of years until they can get better talent.

If they can have a good draft, pick up some key FA's, this team will make increadable strides.
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
I beleive in Carr's case it is possible, but I agree, it won't happen overnight. Kubiak is just what the doctor ordered.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
Bledsoe
:confused: Bledsoe was sacked 16, 22 and 23 times in his first three years, respectively. Hardly qualifies :no:

 

Bri

Footballguy
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
Bledsoe
:confused: Bledsoe was sacked 16, 22 and 23 times in his first three years, respectively. Hardly qualifies :no:
Hmmm I thought it was far more than that.
 

Rozelle

Moderator
I have watched Houston play alot over the past couple of years. Capers had a style of "play no to lose" and this became infectious. Houston has some talent and will add more this year. Its easy to forget how talented Carr is. Capers offense was in some way like having a fancy sports car and only using 2 gears. 45mph.

 

GregR_2

Footballguy
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
I don't think any QB has been sacked as much as Carr, so it wouldn't be an exact precedent. But here are some other numbers for comparison:# times sacked in first 4 years starting:

Carr: 208 in 60 games.

McNabb: 140 in 54 games

Favre: 128 in 63

Plummer: 150 in 52 games.

Culpepper: 151 in 57 games.

 

Rozelle

Moderator
I think that's Kubiak's first order of business, but I'm very curious to see whether it's possible. I don't think someone as pounded as David Carr magically reverts back into a completely calm, poised thrower simply because the line starts playing better. The guy has been decimated these last few years. I wonder if there's any precedent for a QB getting sacked so much at the start of their career and rebounding later...
I don't think any QB has been sacked as much as Carr, so it wouldn't be an exact precedent. But here are some other numbers for comparison:# times sacked in first 4 years starting:

Carr: 208 in 60 games.

McNabb: 140 in 54 games

Favre: 128 in 63

Plummer: 150 in 52 games.

Culpepper: 151 in 57 games.
Your not gonna find another QB that has been sacked as much as Carr. He is in a league of his own in that respect. He's a tough kid. IMO he has what it takes to get over his shell shock...we'll see
 

cstu

Footballguy
I have watched Houston play alot over the past couple of years. Capers had a style of "play no to lose" and this became infectious. Houston has some talent and will add more this year. Its easy to forget how talented Carr is. Capers offense was in some way like having a fancy sports car and only using 2 gears. 45mph.
Whenever I think of Capers, I think of the 2004 game against the Colts where their goal was not to win but to lose by as few points as possible.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
i don't have sack numbers handy, but was aikman pounded first few years?

i wonder about steve young... he came up with tampa bay in usfl, i think, if that counts... don't know specifically about sacks, but recall in general team was very bad, he may not have had great WR weapons & was running for his life a lot... he might have been elusive enough to run away from & out of trouble...

& young was a pretty cool customer & as tough as they come...

 

Rozelle

Moderator
I have watched Houston play alot over the past couple of years.  Capers had a style of "play no to lose"  and this became infectious.  Houston has some talent and will add more this year.  Its easy to forget how talented Carr is.  Capers offense was in some way like having a fancy sports car and only using 2 gears. 45mph.
Whenever I think of Capers, I think of the 2004 game against the Colts where their goal was not to win but to lose by as few points as possible.
I seen two games last year when he basically gave up, one was against the Bills and can't remember other off top of my head.
 

Rozelle

Moderator
I have watched Houston play alot over the past couple of years.  Capers had a style of "play no to lose"  and this became infectious.  Houston has some talent and will add more this year.  Its easy to forget how talented Carr is.  Capers offense was in some way like having a fancy sports car and only using 2 gears. 45mph.
Whenever I think of Capers, I think of the 2004 game against the Colts where their goal was not to win but to lose by as few points as possible.
I seen two games last year when he basically gave up, one was against the Bills and can't remember other off top of my head.
vs BuffaloTrailing 22-7 with 5:55 left, granted they are on their own 36, they punt on a 4th and 3. Next time they get the ball back is at the 1:53 mark on their own 12 yard line.

 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
don't have link, but i'm hearing WAS has offered bruce $6 mill signing bonus... rams cheapskates offered $9 mill over three years, i think... he's probably worth more like 5 mill per year...

al saunders is new OC... he was schooled under vermiel, who was of course bruce's HC at one time with rams...

 

Bri

Footballguy
don't have link, but i'm hearing WAS has offered bruce $6 mill signing bonus... rams cheapskates offered $9 mill over three years, i think... he's probably worth more like 5 mill per year...

al saunders is new OC... he was schooled under vermiel, who was of course bruce's HC at one time with rams...
that would have to be after saturday or 12:01 or whatever, right? Weren't the skins in their own cap purgatory?
 

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