What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The best format (1 Viewer)

KGB

Footballguy
When choosing a FF league, we have many options.

Scoring systems

PPR

Playoff formats

Defensive players

etc

As we become more involved, many times the league(s) we choose become more diverse, and more challenging.

Personally, I think the challenge part SHOULD BE drafting, not who can put in the first pick up the quickest.

So, we invented the waiver system.

Then we invented defensive players, PPR, etc.

For this discussion I would like to discuss TOTAL POINTS VS PLAYOFFS.

Should a team be hurt/lose because they chose a Peterson, Britt, McFadden,any total stud who suddenly gets hurt? Or should they be rewarded by playing a total points league by still having those points at the end of they year BY DRAFTING CORRECTLY?

 
Should a team be hurt/lose because they chose a Peterson, Britt, McFadden,any total stud who suddenly gets hurt? Or should they be rewarded by playing a total points league by still having those points at the end of they year BY DRAFTING CORRECTLY?
The team with the most points in my league has Cam Newton, Victor Cruz, and DeMarco Murray, none of which were drafted.
 
When choosing a FF league, we have many options.

Scoring systems

PPR

Playoff formats

Defensive players

etc

As we become more involved, many times the league(s) we choose become more diverse, and more challenging.

Personally, I think the challenge part SHOULD BE drafting, not who can put in the first pick up the quickest.

So, we invented the waiver system.

Then we invented defensive players, PPR, etc.

For this discussion I would like to discuss TOTAL POINTS VS PLAYOFFS.

Should a team be hurt/lose because they chose a Peterson, Britt, McFadden,any total stud who suddenly gets hurt? Or should they be rewarded by playing a total points league by still having those points at the end of they year BY DRAFTING CORRECTLY?
Why is this an either/or issue? Should be both.
 
When choosing a FF league, we have many options.

Scoring systems

PPR

Playoff formats

Defensive players

etc

As we become more involved, many times the league(s) we choose become more diverse, and more challenging.

Personally, I think the challenge part SHOULD BE drafting, not who can put in the first pick up the quickest.

So, we invented the waiver system.

Then we invented defensive players, PPR, etc.

For this discussion I would like to discuss TOTAL POINTS VS PLAYOFFS.

Should a team be hurt/lose because they chose a Peterson, Britt, McFadden,any total stud who suddenly gets hurt? Or should they be rewarded by playing a total points league by still having those points at the end of they year BY DRAFTING CORRECTLY?
Why is this an either/or issue? Should be both.
Explain. what you say doesnt make sense.
 
When choosing a FF league, we have many options.

Scoring systems

PPR

Playoff formats

Defensive players

etc

As we become more involved, many times the league(s) we choose become more diverse, and more challenging.

Personally, I think the challenge part SHOULD BE drafting, not who can put in the first pick up the quickest.

So, we invented the waiver system.

Then we invented defensive players, PPR, etc.

For this discussion I would like to discuss TOTAL POINTS VS PLAYOFFS.

Should a team be hurt/lose because they chose a Peterson, Britt, McFadden,any total stud who suddenly gets hurt? Or should they be rewarded by playing a total points league by still having those points at the end of they year BY DRAFTING CORRECTLY?
Why is this an either/or issue? Should be both.
Explain. what you say doesnt make sense.
I'm not sure if this is was Cobalt was referring to, but my longtime league (16 team) splits the pot. We consider the total points winner the "true" league champ and gets 60% of the pot. The HTH champ is more for trash talk that goes with it and gets 40%. FWIW in 22 years the same teams has won both titles only 4 times.
 
split the pot 50-50 (playoffs - total points) that is what we do.

Edit to add: didn't see sofa's percent split comment. doesn't matter what the split is, but i think it mitigates the luck factor of the playoffs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
split the pot 50-50 (playoffs - total points) that is what we do.Edit to add: didn't see sofa's percent split comment. doesn't matter what the split is, but i think it mitigates the luck factor of the playoffs.
My favorite league has a split, but I hate a 50/50 split. If two different teams win, it is basically having co-champs. I hate that. Our league total points is the "true" winner and gets 80% of the pot. The 20% goes to the playoff winner and is a good reason for teams who might not be in the total points running to maintain a high interest level as they can still win something. And the playoff games themselves are fun. Best of both worlds.
 
I like the playoff format better. Rewards those who may not have drafted the best but were savy enough to play the right players at the right times and pick uop the right players off the waiver wire. That's just me though.

 
'SofaCoach said:
'KGB said:
'cobalt_27 said:
Why is this an either/or issue? Should be both.
Explain. what you say doesnt make sense.
I'm not sure if this is was Cobalt was referring to, but my longtime league (16 team) splits the pot. We consider the total points winner the "true" league champ and gets 60% of the pot. The HTH champ is more for trash talk that goes with it and gets 40%. FWIW in 22 years the same teams has won both titles only 4 times.
Similar history here. My oldest league was founded as purely weekly points in the 1980s, then added total points in 1991, then added head-to-head in 1995. In 16 seasons, the same team has won both total points and head-to-head just 3 times.I agree with cobalt27's logic. Total points is the overall best team, but head-to-head is fun for trash talk and the playoff chase and excitement surrounding the showdown of a single-week championship. Although I'd rather win the total points, most of my biggest memories are of winning and losing the playoff championship, having had both fortunate wins and bad beats.
 
My big League is similar as well. (but with a twist)

We were founded on total points some 20 odd years ago.

Then to keep people in it down the stretch the top 6 points teams went to a playoff.

top 2 get a by-week 14

The total points person after week 16 if they did not win head to head are guaranteed

at least to get second place, if there in the championship an loose obviously they'd be

second place, but if there knocked out in the second round would still get second place.

----------

8 years ago we Added a complete Head to Head to the league as well, it gets 35% of the pot.

(so it's 2 leagues in 1, there's usually people who make it in 1 then don't make the other)

So yah we do a combo, it keeps most of the people interested and competitive the whole year.

I play in 2 other leagues, but this one is by far my favorite setup.

 
'Topes said:
For this discussion I would like to discuss TOTAL POINTS VS PLAYOFFS.
I believe this ages-old debate is usually framed as HEAD TO HEAD vs TOTAL POINTS.
Why not do both? In both of my leagues, the 2 Wild Card positions are awarded to the teams with the highest points scored. I like this as it rewards quality teams with an unfavorable schedule.
 
We do a hybrid.

Entry fee is $250.

total points champ for the season gets $300

high total game each week gets $25

last playoff spot goes to highest point total regardless of record.

* Champion: ($1000)

* Runner-up ($600)

* 3nd: ($400)

* 4th: ($250)

So if you have the highest scoring team in the league and have the absolute worst luck, you can still clear $600 and possibly more depending on the number weekly high scores.

 
Total points is the overall best team
To me, the best indicator of strength of team is all-play records. Total points can easily be skewed by one or two big (or bad) games. Head to head is, IMO, the weakest of the three though. I prefer the Victory Points system where you are awarded two points per victory/zero points per loss and two points for finishing top four in terms of points for the week/1 point middle four/zero points bottom four. So, if you lose, but have a good scoring week, you at least get two points from the deal and if you win but you have a bad week, you get nothing. But I'd love to play in an all play league if anyone know one.
 
Total points is the overall best team
To me, the best indicator of strength of team is all-play records. Total points can easily be skewed by one or two big (or bad) games. Head to head is, IMO, the weakest of the three though. I prefer the Victory Points system where you are awarded two points per victory/zero points per loss and two points for finishing top four in terms of points for the week/1 point middle four/zero points bottom four. So, if you lose, but have a good scoring week, you at least get two points from the deal and if you win but you have a bad week, you get nothing. But I'd love to play in an all play league if anyone know one.
I completely agree with you that head-to-head is by far the weakest way to determine the strongest team. (But I still think it is an important aspect to a league. It's fun to have the weekly centerpiece to focus on when it comes to rooting for your team and against the opponent. And that goes double or more in the playoffs.)If moving beyond that initial discussion to total points vs. all-play, I would agree without hesitation that all-play is the best indicator of consistent week-to-week team strength, but I wouldn't say it always conclusively decides the best overall team. My distinction is that all-play recognizes consistency, but it can penalize volatility and insufficiently reward explosiveness. And while there are some things an owner can do to seek out volatility, like QB/WR combinations, etc., at least some of the time the volatility is out of the owner's control. So to me, there's a certain arbitrariness to all-play that does not exist with total points.

I am in an interesting battle in my main league. Currently, I sit 23 points in the lead for the season, averaging 91 ppg to the second place team's 89.2 ppg. Yet my all-play record is approximately .790 while the second-place team isn't even at .700 on the year. I have had fewer off weeks and fewer explosive weeks, and clearly that is where the difference lies, but I'm not sure I can credit my shrewdness when Detroit's defense racks up a huge day in Denver the same week many of my other players have off days, just to name one example. Having played FF for 20 years, I'd say the total points is the better indicator of the relative strengths of these two teams in this league this year, and it's really not close.

When you get down to it, while mitigating the unfairness of having one random matchup determine a win vs. a loss (and both lucky wins and unlucky losses therefore can and do result), all-play still has at its heart the issue of discretizing the continuous statistic that is total points. It should be fairly obvious that being the best team by 40 points in a given week shows greater strength than being the best team by 1 point in a given week. And in that context, when a team is in the middle of the pack in a given week, a few points here or there can be the difference between having a net plus vs. a net minus in terms of all-play wins for the week. And this puts us right back to where head-to-head is unfair, although to a lesser extent.

Last week on MNF, I jumped four teams due to a single Brandon Jacobs TD. Instead of being 2-9 (I had a rough week!), I ended up 6-5 in terms of all-play. Four teams vastly outscored me, including two teams that nearly doubled me. To me, total points clearly better captured the relative strength of the teams in this particular week.

Consider these two profiles:

Team A: 2 first place finishes, 4 2nd/3rd place finishes, 6 4th/5th place finishes, 3 6th/7th place finishes, 1 other

Team B: 5 first place finishes, 2 2nd/3rd place finishes, 3 4th/5th place finishes, 2 6th/7th place finishes, 4 other

Team A would definitely be ahead of Team B in all-play, but would they really be the better team, or only the more consistently good team? Clearly Team A was not the most often dominant team. A lot of people, when seeing the breakdown, might wonder how close the finishes were in the above profiles, and that's where total points would come in.

So perhaps it's just a matter of preference. And also, it could depend on the makeup of your league. If you believe the team that is most consistently able to finish in the top 4 weekly teams is the strongest, then you will want to use all-play exclusively. Otherwise, you might be inclined to use total points to try to eliminate all of the arbitrary point values that other teams happened to score in given weeks that can creep in with all-play.

Ultimately, I'd love to come up with a way to combine both all-play and total points, so that both consistently and raw strength are given value. Unfortunately, while good in concept, it's difficult to implement in practice, at least for me.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top