The Birther Conspiracy Thread (2 Viewers)

[jon_mx]

It is true there are those to the right of Michelle Bachmann and Ann Coulter. But is is a very small group of people.

Ann Coulter loves gays and she has sex with black men. J.J. from Good Times to be precise. There are plenty of people that are more socially conservative than Ann Coulter.

Dyn-o-mite!

 

[Jewell]

I agree, except that it's not simply that he's a black man. I honestly believe that if his name was Jack Johnson and he was from Louisiana, these people would be more willing to accept him. But he is of direct African descent with a Muslim name.

I'm not sure if Jack Johnson was the best random name choice of a black man unlikely to be discriminated against.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I am clinging to the hope that since a doctor was involved maybe there was a c-section and his birth was not "natural".

I expected better from the top seed.

 

[Jewell]

That being said, I'll repeat what I've written before: I believe that the root of this particular conspiracy has much to do with bigotry- not necessarily bigotry against Obama's skin color (though this is certainly part of it), but against his nationality and name.

Bigotry against Americans?

I've called Tim on this exact word choice before. Ethnicity, Tim, ethnicity.

 

[timschochet]

That being said, I'll repeat what I've written before: I believe that the root of this particular conspiracy has much to do with bigotry- not necessarily bigotry against Obama's skin color (though this is certainly part of it), but against his nationality and name.

Bigotry against Americans?

I've called Tim on this exact word choice before. Ethnicity, Tim, ethnicity.

You're right.

 

[cvnpoka]

Why can't you use McCain? Because those questions were started by nut ball Ron Paul-lites (note, NOT the left, I'm spelling it out pretty clearly here for you MoO) to try to boost the support for a primary candidate that never had a chance of winning.

Are you calling Ron Paul a racist as well. On what grounds?Also it is widely believed that it was started by Hillary Clinton supporters.

there is strong evidence to suggest ron paul is, or at least was, indeed a racist.http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/05/15/335036/-Ron-Paul,-In-His-Own-Words

 

[The Commish]

I'm done with this thread. Now there are insane people talking about college transcripts, dual-citizenship, adoption by the Indonesian dude etc. It's very disturbing the amount of idiocy present in this country.

quitter

 

[The Commish]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

:slowclap:

 

[mad sweeney]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

:slowclap:

I'm not seeing anything in there admitting to being completely and absurdly wrong on almost all counts...

 

[The Commish]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

:slowclap:

I'm not seeing anything in there admitting to being completely and absurdly wrong on almost all counts...

This is the best you'll ever get...thus the slow clap.

 

[The General]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

 

[mad sweeney]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

 

[jon_mx]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

 

[Christo]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

Oh, he was playing politics. Got it.

 

[greenroom]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

So why did you not accept the first birth certificate he provided? So maybe you are the one who was playing politics? Obama just got tired of the issue bring brought up so he ended it.. But glad you admitted your were wrong.. thats more than others have done.

 

[Sarnoff]

I am clinging to the hope that since a doctor was involved maybe there was a c-section and his birth was not "natural".

I expected better from the top seed.

MacBeth references were so last week.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

Oh, he was playing politics. Got it.

 

[mad sweeney]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

You guaranteed and were positive that he was hiding something along with a whole host of other inaneries. You'll have to explain the bolded. And your final statement was what most here wanted to see but you couldn't say it first, you had to go through a few more accusations and criticisms and get called out on it first before you were man enough to admit it. And now you're all hopped up on the defensive. Can't wait to see what new crackpot theories you're going to be "absolutely sure" of.

 

[The General]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

You should probably just go with the "I was wrong" part.

 

[jon_mx]

It was nice of Obama to finally splurge for the $10 and produce the thing. Was it really that hard? So in the end it was just a political tool to try to trap his opponents. Whatever, it should have been done three years ago instead of playing this mascaraed. Now we have a definitive answer on the hospital, the family whose father delivered the baby has a source of great pride, and there is no more trying to read the tea leafs wondering if Obama is hiding something. I still have no idea why some insist on injecting race into this issue.

Wow. This is what you are going with?

Was there any doubt?

I accepted the evidence. What more do you want? You are the one who suggested it would not be enough. It is. I thought there had to be something he was hiding, instead he was just playing politics. I was wrong.

So why did you not accept the first birth certificate he provided? So maybe you are the one who was playing politics? Obama just got tired of the issue bring brought up so he ended it.. But glad you admitted your were wrong.. thats more than others have done.

Yes, I always accepted the certification. There are just ways to get a certification of live birth from the state of Hawaii without being born there. This is the first time we actually have evidence that some third party non-family member attested to the birth inside the state of Hawaii. Before this, there was always the remote possibility of a foreign birth. I have consistently stated that a foreign birth was a remote possibility.

 

[bigbottom]

There are more false claims on the pro-obama side. You can read thousands of claims on the net and in the media that Obama has already released his birth certicate, which is a factually incorrect statement. And that is the fact that is the biggest sticking point. The claim that you guys attack me on is my assertion that Hawaii has extremely lax laws in getting a birth recorded. Which I contend is true and I will make a post within the week which will layout the case against what Obama has shown and how it is a house of cards.

insandneedles:

 

[bigbottom]

He claims he was born in a hospital and a birth certificate exists. I say he is a liar. There was no Hospital in Hawaii and there is no birth certificate. I don't know the circumstances around his birth, but the story being told is a lie.

YOU LIE!

 

[jon_mx]

There are more false claims on the pro-obama side. You can read thousands of claims on the net and in the media that Obama has already released his birth certicate, which is a factually incorrect statement. And that is the fact that is the biggest sticking point. The claim that you guys attack me on is my assertion that Hawaii has extremely lax laws in getting a birth recorded. Which I contend is true and I will make a post within the week which will layout the case against what Obama has shown and how it is a house of cards.

insandneedles:

It is kind of moot now, but the reasons why the short form was insufficient to absolutely prove he was natural born is because of the numerous different ways Hawaii allows one to have births recorded as outlined in this article. I was going to research this further, but below is a decent write up.

In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.

BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

Actual long form Certificate of Live Birth similar to one Obama refuses to release

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[in other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).

 

[jon_mx]

He claims he was born in a hospital and a birth certificate exists. I say he is a liar. There was no Hospital in Hawaii and there is no birth certificate. I don't know the circumstances around his birth, but the story being told is a lie.

YOU LIE!

I already admitted I was wrong. He was not hiding anything.

 

[bigbottom]

Please explain to me the "reasonable scenario" in which Barack Obama wasn't born in Hawaii but somehow there exists not only a certificate of live birth for him in the state but also two separate newspaper notices of his birth in the state.

It is really simple. Mom or grandma went down to the health department and filed the paperwork. Hawaii for decades have accepted such filings. These filings indicate he was born in Hawaii. The stae od Hawaii recognizes him as being born in Hawaii and certainly would provide an official COLB. Newpapers simply report what the health department provides them. The whole conspiracy comes down to one person filing a dalse report so their child or grandchild is eligible for benefits.

Highly remote!

 

[bigbottom]

There are more false claims on the pro-obama side. You can read thousands of claims on the net and in the media that Obama has already released his birth certicate, which is a factually incorrect statement. And that is the fact that is the biggest sticking point. The claim that you guys attack me on is my assertion that Hawaii has extremely lax laws in getting a birth recorded. Which I contend is true and I will make a post within the week which will layout the case against what Obama has shown and how it is a house of cards.

insandneedles:

It is kind of moot now, but the reasons why the short form was insufficient to absolutely prove he was natural born is because of the numerous different ways Hawaii allows one to have births recorded as outlined in this article. I was going to research this further, but below is a decent write up.

In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.

BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

Actual long form Certificate of Live Birth similar to one Obama refuses to release

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[in other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).

House of cards indeed.

 

[The General]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Just got in, reading through the last several pages. I love how Sam Quentin's trying to be funny, like it's suddenly all a big joke, as if we should forget everything he's written on this topic. And Golddigger's blaming the Left for bringing this up. Classic!

you're going to have to unpack that one

 

[Sam Quentin]

The "Certificate of Live Birth" document released by the White House today, if authentic, assures Americans that their president was born in Hawaii as he has said, according to two participants in a lawsuit who challenged the president's tenure in the Oval Office.

But they say it also proves he's ineligible under the Constitution's requirements to be president.

According to Mario Apuzzo, the attorney who argued the Kerchner vs. Obama case, and the lead plaintiff, retired Navy Cmdr. Charles Kerchner, the documentation reveals that Barack Obama Sr., a Kenyan national subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom, was the father when Barack Obama Jr. was born.

That, they say, would disqualify Obama because of the Founders' requirement in the Constitution that a president be a "natural born Citizen," commonly understood during the era of the beginnings of the United States to mean a citizen offspring of two citizen parents.

The Kerchner vs. Obama case, as have some others, challenged Obama on two grounds: that he had not proven his U.S. birth and that even if that was documented, he stilled needed to meet the requirements of being a "natural born Citizen."

"They are going to have to face the music on this at some point," said Kerchner, whose allegations never were decided on their merits after the courts created a roadblock by determining Americans don't have "standing" to demand the Constitution's requirements be followed. Attorney Mario Apuzzo agreed.

"Assuming that it's valid, that he's born in Hawaii," he said, "It confirms who his father was. His father was not a citizen."

He said in American jurisprudence "there is not one case that says being born to an alien parent creates a natural born citizen."

But Apuzzo said the White House simply wants to ignore the Constitution's demand.

"It doesn't say born," he said. "They want to steamroll over 'natural born.'"

He said the problem, however, is getting a court to decide the dispute he raised. The seven or eight dozen cases brought so far largely have been turned back without a review of their actual merits.

Courts decided that plaintiffs don't have "standing," or an injury or possible injury from a violation of the U.S. Constitution, so the cases are thrown out.

Apuzzo said, however, with the flood of state proposals being considered at the legislative level, at some point a law specifically will give a plaintiff standing, and then a dispute could be argued in the state courts.

Kerchner also said it is inevitable that the courts will have to make a ruling on the arguments.

"The legal definition of the legal term of art will have to be litigated because of all the confusion that Obama and the Progressive/Socialists have introduced into that term," he told WND. "It will take a Supreme Court decision, a congressional investigation and hearing under oath, or both, to settle it. I gave the Congress the chance and asked for congressional investigations. They ignored me. I sue[d] Obama and the Congress and the courts ducked the issue. But they are going to have to face the music on this at some point."

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=292441#ixzz1KlyDr0q0

there's always been this strain of dual citizennship birtherism and this "his father wasn't a citizenb birtherism. They are wrong in their legal reasoning.

 

[jon_mx]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

Nothing I said was that outlandish. I had already eliminated the possibility of a Kenyan birth. I just thought he had to be hiding something since he would not release it. Sorry, I was curious what it was.

 

[timschochet]

Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.

I have decided to post several of the more interesting comments made in this thread, lest we forget them. I'll start with this one.

 

[mad sweeney]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

Nothing I said was that outlandish. I had already eliminated the possibility of a Kenyan birth. I just thought he had to be hiding something since he would not release it. Sorry, I was curious what it was.

 

[timschochet]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

 

[jon_mx]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

Nothing I said was that outlandish. I had already eliminated the possibility of a Kenyan birth. I just thought he had to be hiding something since he would not release it. Sorry, I was curious what it was.

Mad, I am not sure why you are chiming in. When I am proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, I admit it. You still hang on to many fantasies despite being conclusively proven otherwise.

 

[jon_mx]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

 

[timschochet]

That certificate of live birth as proof is hilarious. What it isn't is a birth certificate.What I don't understand, if there is no basis for any of this, is why Obama simply won't release his birth certificate and allow access to his college records.He does that and any controversy is over, period, and all conspiracy theorists have egg all over their face. Instead, he invests a million dollars a year every year in paying a law firm to ensure that no one has any access to any of these records. He's intentionally giving credibility to the argument.That looks like smoke to me. Is there fire?Oh, and to those who say they don't care - the Constitution still means something in this country. You can't invoke it when it favors you and ignore it when it's inconvenient. The Constitution is very direct and clear on this issue.

 

[timschochet]

I'll do some more later. There's just far too many. Have to make sure I get some of Jon and Bronco Billy's more silly comments.

 

[timschochet]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

I know you're not.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

According to Mario Apuzzo, the attorney who argued the Kerchner vs. Obama case, and the lead plaintiff, retired Navy Cmdr. Charles Kerchner, the documentation reveals that Barack Obama Sr., a Kenyan national subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom, was the father when Barack Obama Jr. was born.

That, they say, would disqualify Obama because of the Founders' requirement in the Constitution that a president be a "natural born Citizen," commonly understood during the era of the beginnings of the United States to mean a citizen offspring of two citizen parents.

Well, that certainly seems like iron-clad evidence. Of course, there is that pesky little issue of retroactively impeaching Chester A. Arthur along with half a dozen vice-presidents....

 

[mad sweeney]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

Nothing I said was that outlandish. I had already eliminated the possibility of a Kenyan birth. I just thought he had to be hiding something since he would not release it. Sorry, I was curious what it was.

Mad, I am not sure why you are chiming in. When I am proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, I admit it. You still hang on to many fantasies despite being conclusively proven otherwise.

For one because of the sheer hilarity and obtuseness of the things you are completely positive of and for another I admitted, before definitive proof of being wrong surfaces nationally, that I am at a loss to prove it. I also didn't go into a bunch of detail about my horse#### fantasies, elaborating and defending a steaming pile of poo that defied all logic and appearance. You haven't conclusively proven me wrong about much of anything and I've admitted being wrong before. The one (singular) fantasy you're speaking of is a previously admitted unprovable position.

However, I wouldn't expect you to be right about your accusations against me either!

eta: if being wrong about things keeps someone from posting about other topics then we'd never, ever hear from you again!

 

[Sam Quentin]

Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.

I have decided to post several of the more interesting comments made in this thread, lest we forget them. I'll start with this one.

so?I still think we need a real process. We get the candidates to release their taxes, so a birth certification is really no big deal

 

[The General]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

I know you're not.

 

[bigbottom]

Jon receiving a standing 8 count.

Nothing I said was that outlandish. I had already eliminated the possibility of a Kenyan birth. I just thought he had to be hiding something since he would not release it. Sorry, I was curious what it was.

Eliminated the possibility? Are you sure about that?

Obama has a prett deent case that he was born in Hawaii. I would say better than 90% chance.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

I think Tim is losing it over this. He's the king of this thread.Is this is the "worst" he can find?

 

[bigbottom]

Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.

If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.

That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.

I have decided to post several of the more interesting comments made in this thread, lest we forget them. I'll start with this one.

so?

I still think we need a real process. We get the candidates to release their taxes, so a birth certification is really no big deal

Once again, Obama released this a long time ago.

 

[timschochet]

Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.

I have decided to post several of the more interesting comments made in this thread, lest we forget them. I'll start with this one.

so?I still think we need a real process. We get the candidates to release their taxes, so a birth certification is really no big deal

care to back up that million dollar figure?

 

[bigbottom]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

I think Tim is losing it over this. He's the king of this thread.

I gotta agree. Tim is picking pretty lousy quotes to bump.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, I have no issues with some or most Republicans who question where Obama was born. It is Obama's obligation to prove it to the American people. He claims he was born in a hospital and a birth certificate exists. I say he is a liar. There was no Hospital in Hawaii and there is no birth certificate. I don't know the circumstances around his birth, but the story being told is a lie. Most likely it is as simple as he was born at home and he thinks revealing that would raise more questions as it contradicts his statements and his biography. But everything points to there being no birth certificate.

 

[bigbottom]

Tim, I have no issues with some or most Republicans who question where Obama was born. It is Obama's obligation to prove it to the American people. He claims he was born in a hospital and a birth certificate exists. I say he is a liar. There was no Hospital in Hawaii and there is no birth certificate. I don't know the circumstances around his birth, but the story being told is a lie. Most likely it is as simple as he was born at home and he thinks revealing that would raise more questions as it contradicts his statements and his biography. But everything points to there being no birth certificate.

Dude, I already bumped that one.

 

[timschochet]

Just making the point that a newpaper announcement, while evidence, isn't really proof, and there are a lot of reasons why an ad might run that doesn't involve some conspiracy to take over the world or a time machine.

Nothing wrong with any of the statements you are quoting. I am not sure what your point is.

I think Tim is losing it over this. He's the king of this thread.

I gotta agree. Tim is picking pretty lousy quotes to bump.

OK OK I'll stop. Yours have been better anyhow.