The Borderline Pitcher Hall of Fame Thread Part I (1 Viewer)

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

I'm only allowed 4 choices, so I may throw up another one(or anyone else who wants to feel free). Other names I'm considering:

Tommy John

Lee Smith

David Cone

Orel Hershisher

I know Schilling is still active and adding to his resume, but for the most part, the statistical run of his career is complete. I didn't include Hoffman since there's a thread already dedicated to his HOF chances.

So, any more names to add and where do you vote and why?

 

[MrPhoenix]

Yes to Byleven and Schilling and no to Morris and Mussina.

 

[Eephus]

Blyleven & Mussina - si

Schilling & Morris - no

John, Smith, Hershiser & Cone - no

 

[Tau837]

No to all 8 pitchers named.

 

[Bluesbomber]

Yes to Bert Blyleven and Tommy John.

Jim Kaat would be a nice option .

 

[David Yudkin]

My theoretical question is how many pitchers usually will get inducted from a particular era/time frame.

If we look at roughly the last 10 years or so, the leading starting picther candidate from that bracket include:

Clemens

Johnson

Maddux

Glavine

Pedro

Smoltz

Schilling

Mussina

I haven't delved deeply into how many guys that played together at the same from other eras have been inducted, but this list sounds like a lot.

 

[David Yudkin]

Since I asked the question, here's a breakdown of when HOF pitchers played by decade. I only counted decades where a pitcher played at least 5 seasons.

1870s: 2

1880s: 5

1890s: 5

1900s: 12

1910s: 13

1920s: 14

1930s: 10

1940s: 5

1950s: 11

1960s: 16

1970s: 15

1980s: 9

1990s: 1

 

[Greco]

Bert and Jack yes

Curt and Moose no

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Jack Morris is very underrated. Like Jim Rice he's not in because he was a ##### to the media (and others as well).

 

[David Yudkin]

Jack Morris is very underrated. Like Jim Rice he's not in because he was a ##### to the media (and others as well).

Hmmm . . . I think Rice should have been in a long time ago as IMO he was one of the most feared batters for at least 10 years and statisitcally one of the biggest producers in the time he played.Morris, on the other hand, seems to be a very borderline candidate in my book. His yearly ERAs were not all that impressive (thus why is has a very so-so ERA+ of 105). His other peripheral numbers are also not HOF-like with a 1.296 WHIP, 1.78 K to BB ratio, and 5.8 K/9 rates.In 18 years, he was an all star 5 times, never won the Cy Young (although 3rd twice), never ranked in the Top 10 in MVP balloting.His biggest case is his performance in two World Series: 2-0 with a 2.00 ERA for the Tigers and 2-0 with a 1.17 ERA for the Twins.That's the plus side of his post season stats, but he was in 5 other post season series and in those went 3-4 with 5.61 ERA, but of course no one remembers those games.His regular season stats saw him Top 5 in wins 9 times and IP 7 times but Top 5 in ERA twice and WHIP twice. He pitched a lot of innings and gave his teams a chance to win, but IMO for the most part I don't remember him being a dominant pitcher on a consistent basis.He's another guy I wouldn't lose any sleep over if he got inducted, but I wouldn't be campaigning for him either.

 

[Greco]

Jack Morris is very underrated. Like Jim Rice he's not in because he was a ##### to the media (and others as well).

Hmmm . . . I think Rice should have been in a long time ago as IMO he was one of the most feared batters for at least 10 years and statisitcally one of the biggest producers in the time he played.Morris, on the other hand, seems to be a very borderline candidate in my book. His yearly ERAs were not all that impressive (thus why is has a very so-so ERA+ of 105). His other peripheral numbers are also not HOF-like with a 1.296 WHIP, 1.78 K to BB ratio, and 5.8 K/9 rates.

In 18 years, he was an all star 5 times, never won the Cy Young (although 3rd twice), never ranked in the Top 10 in MVP balloting.

His biggest case is his performance in two World Series: 2-0 with a 2.00 ERA for the Tigers and 2-0 with a 1.17 ERA for the Twins.

That's the plus side of his post season stats, but he was in 5 other post season series and in those went 3-4 with 5.61 ERA, but of course no one remembers those games.

His regular season stats saw him Top 5 in wins 9 times and IP 7 times but Top 5 in ERA twice and WHIP twice. He pitched a lot of innings and gave his teams a chance to win, but IMO for the most part I don't remember him being a dominant pitcher on a consistent basis.

He's another guy I wouldn't lose any sleep over if he got inducted, but I wouldn't be campaigning for him either.

Winningest pitcher of the 1980's with workhorse numbers:Comp. Games

1981 AL-15-3

1982 AL-17-2

1983 AL-20-2

1985 AL-13-4

1986 AL-15-3

1987 AL-13-6

1988 AL-10-8

1989 AL-10-2

1990 AL-11-1

1991 AL-10-3

But this debate is moot. He won't ever get in.

 

[David Yudkin]

Winningest pitcher of the 1980's with workhorse numbers:

I hear this all the time, yet what exactly does that mean? That other great pitcers had careers that did not fill the entire decade. And there are plenty of pitcher that started or ended their careers in the 80s and did not play the entire decade.Just like the player who had the most hits in the 90s . . . Mark Grace. Does that get him any HOF love?

 

[Thunderlips]

Since I asked the question, here's a breakdown of when HOF pitchers played by decade. I only counted decades where a pitcher played at least 5 seasons.1870s: 21880s: 51890s: 51900s: 121910s: 131920s: 141930s: 101940s: 51950s: 111960s: 161970s: 151980s: 91990s: 1

The average of which is 9....(with the 1990's being low because all of it's pitchers are still not eligible and pre 1900 being low....for whatever reason I don't know).Is Mussina the 9th best pitcher of his era?Pedro,Clemens,Maddux,Smoltz,Glavine,Unit,Mo Rivera, Schilling? Mussina?

 

[Greco]

Winningest pitcher of the 1980's with workhorse numbers:

I hear this all the time, yet what exactly does that mean? That other great pitcers had careers that did not fill the entire decade. And there are plenty of pitcher that started or ended their careers in the 80s and did not play the entire decade.Just like the player who had the most hits in the 90s . . . Mark Grace. Does that get him any HOF love?

I guess it means in his 18 year career in which ten of those seasons fell between 1980 and 1989 he won more games than anybody else that pitched in those same years. The guy started no less than 23 games a season in all but his first two season in the bigs. He was the premiere ace of a decade. Not many can say that. Furthermore, Mark Grace's hits didn't translate to the only stat that matters W's. Morris' did. But again, moot. Or moo, as the case may be.