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The future of Police forces in the U.S. (1 Viewer)

BobbyLayne said:
Defund the police

Get rid of the APCs & heavy firepower

Rename City PD the Department of Public Safety

When you have someone with mental health crisis then send a properly trained mental health professional (maybe create a new EMT specialist who is a counselor/social worker)

When someone has OD’ed or calls about opioid abuse send an addiction expert

When there are DV complaints send a mediation team 

Start over with community-oriented, nonviolent public safety which has an outreach capacity

Stop sending armed cops into situations that need deescalation

Offer solutions that help people instead of harming them
I liked this post yesterday, however, I would change  this 1st item:

Defund the police
to:

"Redirect current funding in order to enact the rest of the list."

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the intent of "defund" - if it means what I listed above, I'm with it.

However, I do want to make sure that properly guided funding (with oversight) is available to make the very needed changes possible.

 
Ilov80s said:
Armed officers. We need more units with more specific training. We absolutely need heroes specifically trained to risk their lives by entering violent situations. We also need heroes specifically  trained to enter non-violent situations. 
I also liked this.

I was responsible for "site security" for 17 years in a very high crime area. I fully understand the need for armed officers.

I think it can be done in a more efficient  just manner.

 
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I think we are nearing an inflection point where escalation will become a two-way street.
I think it started that way which is why I have been saying for over a week ago that sending in cops in riot gear is the wrong way to tackle this and would only result in more widespread chaos. 

 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-rejects-city-council-push-to-defund-police.amp
 

Article about Minneapolis vote to disband Police Department.  Described Camden (which it appears mostly done to reduce expenditures.
The results there have been quite good. 
 

- Homicides in Camden reached 67 in 2012; the figure for 2019 was 25. 

- The new county force is double the size of the old one, and officers almost exclusively patrol the city

- excessive force complaints in Camden have dropped 95% 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department

 
I liked this post yesterday, however, I would change  this 1st item:

to:

"Redirect current funding in order to enact the rest of the list."

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the intent of "defund" - if it means what I listed above, I'm with it.

However, I do want to make sure that properly guided funding (with oversight) is available to make the very needed changes possible.
I work in a medical behavioral health field.  I wanted to chime in on some of these topics.  There seems to be a lack of awareness of what types of situations occur in the field(community).  Things like overdoses require paramedics and possibly police depending on the behavior of the patient before an addictions specialist can become involved.  Often these patient require medical evaluations and possible hospitalization prior to getting to a point where having an addiction specialist can reasonably get involved.  Domestic violence is also another situation that can have various presentations, the safety of the scene would need to be established prior to mediation team.  Mental health crises also have many presentations that can involve patients who are intoxicated or under the influence of drugs, once again the safety of the scene would need to be established prior to counselor or social worker involvement.  I agree that an EMT with behavioral health or social work training may be helpful but I believe that police may be needed in many situations that can arise in the field. 

 
Really wish some of you had to walk a day or two in a cops' shoes. 

16 hour days right now.  16 days in a row.

You investigate drug dealers and murderers?  Guess what they're going to do to you if you can't use force?  Yeah, they'll kill you.  They take off and run, eat the drugs they're carrying and choke on them after you tackle them?  Guess who's on administrative leave pending charges in the investigation? 

De-fund the police?  Don't call us when you need help then.  Stay calm!  Thoughts and prayers.  We're sending nobody. 

 
Really wish some of you had to walk a day or two in a cops' shoes. 

16 hour days right now.  16 days in a row.

You investigate drug dealers and murderers?  Guess what they're going to do to you if you can't use force?  Yeah, they'll kill you.  They take off and run, eat the drugs they're carrying and choke on them after you tackle them?  Guess who's on administrative leave pending charges in the investigation? 

De-fund the police?  Don't call us when you need help then.  Stay calm!  Thoughts and prayers.  We're sending nobody. 
Police and military have been making these threats to avoid change and accountability for generations. 

If some feel that way great, go flip hamburgers or whatever. It's probably best for everybody. But most will change if there is solid direction leadership and accountability. 

We can't even have a national database about police killings. We can't even fund the CDC to study the problem. We can beef up the mental health system. Cops shouldn't have to deal with so many mentally ill people but a decision has been made to force the justice/police system to run it. We can do so much better on substance abuse issues. We can get better outcomes for people of color in the education system. There are tons of changes possible without putting cops out there in their boxers with a badmitton racquet.  

We have unfairly shifted tons of burdens on cops that should be shouldered by a more robust education and social service system. 

 
Police and military have been making these threats to avoid change and accountability for generations. 

If some feel that way great, go flip hamburgers or whatever. It's probably best for everybody. But most will change if there is solid direction leadership and accountability.
No, they won't.  They officer I'm referencing in my post, who has had these things happen to him, is ready to resign.  The good cops, the ones who aren't part of the problem, will simply quit.  It isn't worth it. 

The drug dealers and murderers aren't planning on quitting though. 

 
The good cops, the ones who aren't part of the problem, will simply quit.  
Ehh, if a cop would quit because they're not allowed to bring military-grade weaponry to a traffic stop or whatever, I'd question whether they were actually one of the good ones.  

"Defund the police" has been framed by some to mean something like "disband the police entirely" or "take away all their guns."  There probably are some people at the extremes who think that's the correct approach.  But as far as I can tell, what most people want is (a) demilitarization of the police and (b) reallocation of resources away from aggressive policing and towards things that will provide better outcomes for society like mental health, education, social work, addiction treatment, etc.  Nobody's seriously asking your cop buddy to bust down the door of a drug cartel unarmed, so the fearmongering is misplaced.  

 
[icon] said:
I really hope Minny ditches their police force... Get your popcorn ready :lol:  
Minnesota is a weird state.  When I first heard they were defunding the police, my first thoughts were Thunderdome or the whole state becoming Hamsterdam from The Wire.  But they'd find a way to somehow make it work.

If they try this in Chicago, screw the popcorn, get your shotguns ready.

 
Really wish some of you had to walk a day or two in a cops' shoes. 

16 hour days right now.  16 days in a row.

You investigate drug dealers and murderers?  Guess what they're going to do to you if you can't use force?  Yeah, they'll kill you.  They take off and run, eat the drugs they're carrying and choke on them after you tackle them?  Guess who's on administrative leave pending charges in the investigation? 

De-fund the police?  Don't call us when you need help then.  Stay calm!  Thoughts and prayers.  We're sending nobody. 
Exactly. The system is bad for the good cops as well. We need massive change.

 
No, they won't.  They officer I'm referencing in my post, who has had these things happen to him, is ready to resign.  The good cops, the ones who aren't part of the problem, will simply quit.  It isn't worth it. 

The drug dealers and murderers aren't planning on quitting though. 
I don't think Boston needs to worry about cops quitting.  Apparently there are 530 officers making over $200K per year, and many making well over $300K.

https://twitter.com/lauren_marietta/status/1269015795906027522

 
Ehh, if a cop would quit because they're not allowed to bring military-grade weaponry to a traffic stop or whatever, I'd question whether they were actually one of the good ones.  

"Defund the police" has been framed by some to mean something like "disband the police entirely" or "take away all their guns."  There probably are some people at the extremes who think that's the correct approach.  But as far as I can tell, what most people want is (a) demilitarization of the police and (b) reallocation of resources away from aggressive policing and towards things that will provide better outcomes for society like mental health, education, social work, addiction treatment, etc.  Nobody's seriously asking your cop buddy to bust down the door of a drug cartel unarmed, so the fearmongering is misplaced.  
Who is dying from military grade weaponry? The cops aren’t patrolling around lighting people up with assault rifles. 
 

Are the guns even the problem? It seems like most of the issues seem to be from use of excessive force while making the arrest. Bad people who are committing crimes don’t want to go to jail. They resist. Force is necessary sometimes.  
 

There are some bad cops out there on power trips, but they aren’t all like that. In fact, it’s likely a very small minority who are. 
 

I can’t think of many jobs tougher right now than being a police officer. 

 
Ehh, if a cop would quit because they're not allowed to bring military-grade weaponry to a traffic stop or whatever, I'd question whether they were actually one of the good ones.  

"Defund the police" has been framed by some to mean something like "disband the police entirely" or "take away all their guns."  There probably are some people at the extremes who think that's the correct approach.  But as far as I can tell, what most people want is (a) demilitarization of the police and (b) reallocation of resources away from aggressive policing and towards things that will provide better outcomes for society like mental health, education, social work, addiction treatment, etc.  Nobody's seriously asking your cop buddy to bust down the door of a drug cartel unarmed, so the fearmongering is misplaced.  
Who is talking about quitting because of military grade weapons?  I have never heard of a cop writing a ticket with an AR-15 on his back lol.  People or the media are making that up if it is being said...they are quitting because the bad cops have caused most of the country to hate them and people are walking up and shooting them in the back of the head simply because they are cops.  

I really believe the police need to be hired from and work in their own neighborhoods.  The cities need to make a solid effort recruiting people to work where they live - maybe even offer incentives it somehow.  That might bring trust to/from both sides...at least more than there currently is. Otherwise, I can see some neighborhoods that will not get any cops to work...they will be on their own.

 
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There are some bad cops out there on power trips, but they aren’t all like that.


 the bad cops have caused most of the country to hate them
Cool, I think everyone agrees we should start by weeding out the bad ones then.  The thing is, we need the good cops to be part of that process, and too often they're not.  Because if you have 1 bad cop and 9 good cops, but the good cops don't speak up about the bad cops, you actually have 10 bad cops. 

 
No, they won't.  They officer I'm referencing in my post, who has had these things happen to him, is ready to resign.  The good cops, the ones who aren't part of the problem, will simply quit.  It isn't worth it. 

The drug dealers and murderers aren't planning on quitting though. 
Camden New Jersey. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

"Back then residents of Camden city absolutely feared the police department and members of the department," he told CNN. "They (the residents) wanted that to change."

Violent crimes have dropped 42% in seven years, according to city crime data provided by the department. The crime rate has dropped from 79 per 1,000 to 44 per 1,000, the data shows.

 
Just a thought and figured I would see other opinions.  But who in their right mind would be a police officer in this country after the past few years.  Even if you offered me 250k a year, it would be a hard pass...and I am in the military!  I would rather spend a year in Afghanistan at my current pay, then a year as a police officer in a major city (even if offered 250k a year).  I probably wouldn't do it for half a million a year!

Is the police force going to end up with more and more bad apples, because no else is crazy enough to do the job?  It has got be one of the worst occupation in the country at this point.  



 
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