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The high stakes poker hand that launched a 3 month investigation into cheating (1 Viewer)

top dog

Footballguy
I've only played poker with friends and usually suck pretty bad. Explain to me like I'm a challenged poker player why her calling the all in was so "wrong" but him going all in when he didn't have crap to begin with was the "right" call? Maybe understanding this will make me not such a crappy poker player. :-)
 

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
What's the origin of the vibrating ring/chair? From what I have read, there's nothing backing this up, is that incorrect?

The vibrating chair footage is shown in the video below at the 6:45 mark. Could be she is just bouncing her leg.

 

NewlyRetired

Footballguy
I've only played poker with friends and usually suck pretty bad. Explain to me like I'm a challenged poker player why her calling the all in was so "wrong" but him going all in when he didn't have crap to begin with was the "right" call? Maybe understanding this will make me not such a crappy poker player. :-)
From his point of view, he had an open ended straight flush draw, which is a fantastic hand to semi bluff on as it gives you two ways to win. One, your initial bet forces a weak hand to fold (which is what was should have happened here) or two, one of your many outs hits on if you get called by a decent hand.

There should be no need for an explanation of why her call was ridiculous. She called an all in bet with jack high and no draw potential.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I've only played poker with friends and usually suck pretty bad. Explain to me like I'm a challenged poker player why her calling the all in was so "wrong" but him going all in when he didn't have crap to begin with was the "right" call? Maybe understanding this will make me not such a crappy poker player. :-)
Garrett had an open ended straight flush draw. He could have won the hand with any club, jack, or six. That's 15 outs (he wouldn't know that Robi had one of those). As it turned out, he could also have won with any seven or eight . . . meaning he had 21 total outs.

He sensed she was weak and went over the top all in. He expected her to back off and fold. He didn't expect to get called. Even getting called, he was a slight favorite to win. She bet $130K cash with a jack high. She didn't know what he had, and winning any hand with a jack high is not going to happen very often.
 

ILUVBEER99

Footballguy
Right. She made a dumb play.
That's what I think happened. She was an amateur player on a big live stream and screwed up. Either by misreading her hand or just making a huge mistake. Had a brain freeze.

There has been no solid evidence that she cheated. People reviewed all her other hands and found nothing. So she all of a sudden decides to cheat on this particular hand. It doesn't add up.

The guy who kept the money should be ashamed for not returning it at this point.

Is there a chance she cheated? Of course, but not near enough evidence to lean that way currently.
 

Softballguy

Footballguy
Right. She made a dumb play.
That's what I think happened. She was an amateur player on a big live stream and screwed up. Either by misreading her hand or just making a huge mistake. Had a brain freeze.

There has been no solid evidence that she cheated. People reviewed all her other hands and found nothing. So she all of a sudden decides to cheat on this particular hand. It doesn't add up.

The guy who kept the money should be ashamed for not returning it at this point.

Is there a chance she cheated? Of course, but not near enough evidence to lean that way currently.
It's difficult to claim she misread her hand for a variety of reasons that have already been covered. And we need to stop with the idea that she was in over her head so she called an all-in with jack high. People who get in "over their head' play the exact opposite way. And nobody calls there with jack high. Not your dumb uncle, the local card player who plays any two cards, not the drunkard... nobody. So while we can't prove she cheated, unless she has some crazy Mike Postle (another player who we couldn't prove cheated... but did) god-like ability to read hands, something was up. And we haven't even gotten into the crazy similarities between her style of writing and that of the thief who stole her chips. Seems likely she wrote tweets for him in the aftermath. Lot's of funny business in play.
 

ILUVBEER99

Footballguy
I don't understand why she gave it back.
My take is that the guy who was complaining was the main draw for the stream and could have gotten her blackballed. In the moment she probably felt like an idiot and made a rash decision to give him the money.

If she's guilty of anything it's wanting to be poker famous and keep playing on streams.
 

ILUVBEER99

Footballguy
Right. She made a dumb play.
That's what I think happened. She was an amateur player on a big live stream and screwed up. Either by misreading her hand or just making a huge mistake. Had a brain freeze.

There has been no solid evidence that she cheated. People reviewed all her other hands and found nothing. So she all of a sudden decides to cheat on this particular hand. It doesn't add up.

The guy who kept the money should be ashamed for not returning it at this point.

Is there a chance she cheated? Of course, but not near enough evidence to lean that way currently.
It's difficult to claim she misread her hand for a variety of reasons that have already been covered. And we need to stop with the idea that she was in over her head so she called an all-in with jack high. People who get in "over their head' play the exact opposite way. And nobody calls there with jack high. Not your dumb uncle, the local card player who plays any two cards, not the drunkard... nobody. So while we can't prove she cheated, unless she has some crazy Mike Postle (another player who we couldn't prove cheated... but did) god-like ability to read hands, something was up. And we haven't even gotten into the crazy similarities between her style of writing and that of the thief who stole her chips. Seems likely she wrote tweets for him in the aftermath. Lot's of funny business in play.
They had thousands of hands of Mike Postle and statistically what he did was like hitting the Powerball. Probability showed he cheated in some way. They didn't have the gun he used to do it but the numbers showed he was doing something.

She was spewing all kinds of nonsensical stuff after the hand. Nobody wants to look like a moron on a live stream. In the end she still did but made a rash decision to try to justify it in the moment.

They didn't have a ton of hands of hers to analyze but the ones people did there was nothing extremely odd outside of some other bad plays where she lost. Why pick this one hand to cheat on.

As I said it's possible there was cheating but not near enough evidence to make that conclusion with any certainty.
 

In The Zone

Footballguy
If I were going to go to the whole ordeal of funding a cheating scam in poker I would certainly get someone much smarter than her to play the game.
 

Softballguy

Footballguy
If I were going to go to the whole ordeal of funding a cheating scam in poker I would certainly get someone much smarter than her to play the game.
I would too. But Rip Chavez decided to get the girl he was having an affair with into his high stakes game, front her the money, and then...???
 

TakiToki

Footballguy
As far as the skill as the potential cheaters involved, while Rip and Robbi may not be Danny Ocean and Rusty Ryan, I don't think Nick Vertucci is exactly a Terry Benedict-level foil.
 

Dr_Zaius

Footballguy
It's difficult to claim she misread her hand for a variety of reasons that have already been covered. And we need to stop with the idea that she was in over her head so she called an all-in with jack high. People who get in "over their head' play the exact opposite way. And nobody calls there with jack high. Not your dumb uncle, the local card player who plays any two cards, not the drunkard... nobody. So while we can't prove she cheated, unless she has some crazy Mike Postle (another player who we couldn't prove cheated... but did) god-like ability to read hands, something was up. And we haven't even gotten into the crazy similarities between her style of writing and that of the thief who stole her chips. Seems likely she wrote tweets for him in the aftermath. Lot's of funny business in play.
While I largely agree with this and lean towards her cheating for the reasons already mentioned in this thread, as it so happens I did see a crazy call in the wild at a low stakes casino game recently. A late middle-aged woman hero called a big bet on the river with an unimproved Q8 that beat almost nothing, but did in fact beat the busted straight straight draw the guy had. She was a strange player in that she had a mix of decent and bizarre plays. It wasn't on the level of call being talked about here, but I can't imagine her beating more than 20% of his range so it was still crazy to witness.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Her discussion after the hand played out doesn't help her cause any. She sniffed out he was bluffing and put him on an ace . . . so she decided to call with a jack.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
This situation reminded me of a WPT hand where both players tried bluffing on a hand where there were a ton of possibilities based on what was on the board. Each guy kept betting and it took a while to play out the hand. It was something insane like 3S-6C vs. 3C-5S. The flop was QH-JD-10H and the turn was the 9D (straight and flush possibilities).

Eventually, both players ended up pot committed, and each went all in expecting to lose. When they showed their cards, the most likely outcome was a split pot, but a two came on the river, and the first guy's six played for the win.
 

Softballguy

Footballguy
This situation reminded me of a WPT hand where both players tried bluffing on a hand where there were a ton of possibilities based on what was on the board. Each guy kept betting and it took a while to play out the hand. It was something insane like 3S-6C vs. 3C-5S. The flop was QH-JD-10H and the turn was the 9D (straight and flush possibilities).

Eventually, both players ended up pot committed, and each went all in expecting to lose. When they showed their cards, the most likely outcome was a split pot, but a two came on the river, and the first guy's six played for the win.
I don't know the specific hand you're talking about, but I'm guessing it didn't involve a large all-in that closed the action. That makes a world of difference.
 

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