The high stakes poker hand that launched a 3 month investigation into cheating (2 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

Please watch the video first before reading the rest below

https://twitter.com/HCLPokerShow/status/1575668051948687360?s=20

==============

During the investigation the following was discovered:

1) The player who won the hand eventually gave all the money back after a lot of harassment online

2) After the stream ended but with cameras still running, a member of the production crew who was responsible for bagging the chips removed $15k from the winners pile. He never admitted any compliance in cheating and said it was purely stealing.

3) The player who won the hand was brand new to these high stakes. It was found that another player at the table staked their entire starting stack

4) The investigation said that while they found many avenues that could be exploited for cheating, they could not prove anything happened. The Hustler casino made numerous changes to protect against the security holes that the investigation found.

5) The player was cleared to return to play and has resumed high stakes play this month on streaming

=========================================

When I first watched the hand with out knowing what happened after, I had assumed it was not cheating and that the hand was simply misread (if the player thought they had J3 the hand makes a little more sense as a bluff catcher, which is what they claimed in the after math, which clearly made no sense when holding J4).

Now I am not so sure.

What do you guys think?

 

[ghostguy123]

Why were two river cards thrown?
What happened to the 9 of diamonds?

 

[Dezbelief]

Any Chess fans? ***Controversy at Sinquefeld Cup Sep 1-13***

Chess.com releases 72 page report accusing Niemann of cheating "over 100 times".

forums.footballguys.com

There is some discussion here ^ on the subject.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Why were two river cards thrown?

they ran it twice (it is a cash game so the players involved can choose how many times to run it on all ins like this)

 

[NewlyRetired]

What happened to the 9 of diamonds?

The 9 of diamonds completed the first run. She won that run out. They ran one more card for a second run. She won that as well and took the whole pot. Had she lost the second one, they would have split the pot.

Players sometimes choose to run it more than once to remove variance. It is not always done, many players prefer once only.

 

[TakiToki]

Re: #1 -- The money was given back almost immediately. The losing player, Garrett, got up a couple hands after the incident and went to talk the producer off-camera. They were then joined by the winning player, Robbie. The two players reportedly agreed to the return of the money on the condition that Garrett would continue playing in the game (he is the star of the streaming poker world and its top draw). However, Robbie's backer got hostile after hearing about the return of the money and started yelling obscenities. Garrett never did return to the game.

Garrett has also never softened his stance that he was cheated. He wound up publicly donating the amount of money from the hand ($135k) to Big Brothers/BIg Sisters, and to date has not given anything back to Robbie.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Re: #1 -- The money was given back almost immediately. The losing player, Garrett, got up a couple hands after the incident and went to talk the producer off-camera. They were then joined by the winning player, Robbie. The two players reportedly agreed to the return of the money on the condition that Garrett would continue playing in the game (he is the star of the streaming poker world and its top draw). However, Robbie's backer got hostile after hearing about the return of the money and started yelling obscenities. Garrett never did return to the game.

Garrett has also never softened his stance that he was cheated. He wound up publicly donating the amount of money from the hand ($135k) to Big Brothers/BIg Sisters, and to date has not given anything back to Robbie.

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

 

[belljr]

Is this the vibrating ring scandal

 

[NewlyRetired]

Is this the vibrating ring scandal

yes, this was one of the accusations of how the cheating was done. The investigation could not prove it though.

 

[bigbottom]

Re: #1 -- The money was given back almost immediately. The losing player, Garrett, got up a couple hands after the incident and went to talk the producer off-camera. They were then joined by the winning player, Robbie. The two players reportedly agreed to the return of the money on the condition that Garrett would continue playing in the game (he is the star of the streaming poker world and its top draw). However, Robbie's backer got hostile after hearing about the return of the money and started yelling obscenities. Garrett never did return to the game.

Garrett has also never softened his stance that he was cheated. He wound up publicly donating the amount of money from the hand ($135k) to Big Brothers/BIg Sisters, and to date has not given anything back to Robbie.

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

It wasn’t a misread based on some things she said at the table. So I’m going with cheating or it was just terrible play.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Re: #1 -- The money was given back almost immediately. The losing player, Garrett, got up a couple hands after the incident and went to talk the producer off-camera. They were then joined by the winning player, Robbie. The two players reportedly agreed to the return of the money on the condition that Garrett would continue playing in the game (he is the star of the streaming poker world and its top draw). However, Robbie's backer got hostile after hearing about the return of the money and started yelling obscenities. Garrett never did return to the game.

Garrett has also never softened his stance that he was cheated. He wound up publicly donating the amount of money from the hand ($135k) to Big Brothers/BIg Sisters, and to date has not given anything back to Robbie.

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

It wasn’t a misread based on some things she said at the table. So I’m going with cheating or it was just terrible play.

if it wasn't a misread, what type of bluff did she think she was catching?

At one point she said she put him on ace high which makes no sense unless she misread her hand. Of course she also says that he gave her too much credit for holding a small pair which also makes no sense if she knew she was holding j4

 

[ghostguy123]

What happened to the 9 of diamonds?

The 9 of diamonds completed the first run. She won that run out. They ran one more card for a second run. She won that as well and took the whole pot. Had she lost the second one, they would have split the pot.

Players sometimes choose to run it more than once to remove variance. It is not always done, many players prefer once only.

I've literally never heard of that. Learn something new every day.

 

[NewlyRetired]

What happened to the 9 of diamonds?

The 9 of diamonds completed the first run. She won that run out. They ran one more card for a second run. She won that as well and took the whole pot. Had she lost the second one, they would have split the pot.

Players sometimes choose to run it more than once to remove variance. It is not always done, many players prefer once only.

I've literally never heard of that. Learn something new every day.

it is only done in cash games, never in tournament play.

 

[TakiToki]

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

I think anyone claiming to have a strong opinion on what happened is kidding themselves. With that said, I lean towards cheating. Garrett has been in the poker world for a long time, and I tend to trust his instincts here.

She changed her story back and forth on the "misread hand" angle multiple times in interviews shortly after the incident. To me, watching the hand, she didn't give off the impression of someone who thought she had a different hand when she turned over her cards. I would have expected some element of surprise there. Of course this is just my interpretation and guess, and could certainly be reading it wrong.

My guess is that they had some mechanism for signaling her when she had the best hand, but not the understanding of how poker odds and game theory work, as calling an all-in bet here is obviously ridiculous. My wild, unfounded speculation is that she knew not to call there but that she kept getting "buzzed" (or whatever the signaling mechanism was) and was basically bullied into it by her handlers/conspirators. Once again, wild unfounded speculation here, and am probably massively off the mark here.

Also a part of my guess is that the money stolen was "payment" for the money she returned to Garrett, taking his 10% that was due to him. Wasn't his fault she gave the money back and he did his job there.

Once again, I stress that this is just the way I lean on it. Everything on which I have speculated could be massively different from what actually happened, and it would not surprise me at all.

 

[Softballguy]

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

I think anyone claiming to have a strong opinion on what happened is kidding themselves. With that said, I lean towards cheating. Garrett has been in the poker world for a long time, and I tend to trust his instincts here.

She changed her story back and forth on the "misread hand" angle multiple times in interviews shortly after the incident. To me, watching the hand, she didn't give off the impression of someone who thought she had a different hand when she turned over her cards. I would have expected some element of surprise there. Of course this is just my interpretation and guess, and could certainly be reading it wrong.

My guess is that they had some mechanism for signaling her when she had the best hand, but not the understanding of how poker odds and game theory work, as calling an all-in bet here is obviously ridiculous. My wild, unfounded speculation is that she knew not to call there but that she kept getting "buzzed" (or whatever the signaling mechanism was) and was basically bullied into it by her handlers/conspirators. Once again, wild unfounded speculation here, and am probably massively off the mark here.

Also a part of my guess is that the money stolen was "payment" for the money she returned to Garrett, taking his 10% that was due to him. Wasn't his fault she gave the money back and he did his job there.

Once again, I stress that this is just the way I lean on it. Everything on which I have speculated could be massively different from what actually happened, and it would not surprise me at all.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I haven't changed my opinion from what I wrote in the chess forum back in October:

The only options here are that she misread her hand (which seems unlikely since she didn't react when she flipped her cards without a 3 and pretty much said she didn't have a 3 after the money was in), she's really terrible at poker (she's definitely bad, but who could be bad enough to make that call?), or she cheated. The only hand in Garrett's range she beats was the exact two cards he had; every other possible hand beats her. Her nonsense stammering after the hand is also extremely suspicious.

 

[NewlyRetired]

My guess is that they had some mechanism for signaling her when she had the best hand, but not the understanding of how poker odds and game theory work, as calling an all-in bet here is obviously ridiculous. My wild, unfounded speculation is that she knew not to call there but that she kept getting "buzzed" (or whatever the signaling mechanism was) and was basically bullied into it by her handlers/conspirators.

This is the part of the cheating conspiracy that I can't get around. Even if they knew the exact cards there, that is not a situation you want to risk an all in on. You want to set this up to be a MUCH higher probability of winning, usually on a pure bluff catcher where you are actually way ahead but don't know it.

My first assumption was that if anyone was going through all the bother of setting up a cheating mechanism, that they would know when to correctly buzz her. That perhaps is incorrect on my part.

And if it was cheating, the guy that staked her seems very likely to be in on the deal since she wasn't going to be able to fund a game like this normally.

 

[titusbramble]

My main forum is a poker forum, the thread on this topic is (checks notes) over 16,000 posts long

 

[ghostguy123]

Why did she return the money???

 

[culdeus]

My main forum is a poker forum, the thread on this topic is (checks notes) over 16,000 posts long

Serious bisness

 

[Zow]

My main forum is a poker forum, the thread on this topic is (checks notes) over 16,000 posts long

And I assume no consensus?

I generally defer to reputable pros like Polk and Negreanu, and they both thought it was wacky but admitted they couldn't definitively prove anything.

 

[Zow]

Any Chess fans? ***Controversy at Sinquefeld Cup Sep 1-13***

Chess.com releases 72 page report accusing Niemann of cheating "over 100 times".

forums.footballguys.com

There is some discussion here ^ on the subject.

Yep. This happened around the time that Carlsen accused Hans of cheating against him.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Judging by her mannerisms and stammering after the fact…….cheating

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Judging by her mannerisms and stammering after the fact…….cheating

You'd think she would have a better poker face.

 

[coyote5]

My guess is that they had some mechanism for signaling her when she had the best hand, but not the understanding of how poker odds and game theory work, as calling an all-in bet here is obviously ridiculous. My wild, unfounded speculation is that she knew not to call there but that she kept getting "buzzed" (or whatever the signaling mechanism was) and was basically bullied into it by her handlers/conspirators.

This is the part of the cheating conspiracy that I can't get around. Even if they knew the exact cards there, that is not a situation you want to risk an all in on. You want to set this up to be a MUCH higher probability of winning, usually on a pure bluff catcher where you are actually way ahead but don't know it.

My first assumption was that if anyone was going through all the bother of setting up a cheating mechanism, that they would know when to correctly buzz her. That perhaps is incorrect on my part.

And if it was cheating, the guy that staked her seems very likely to be in on the deal since she wasn't going to be able to fund a game like this normally.

This is where I come out. Why would you have this elaborate cheating scheme set up, only to use it in a spot with minimal favorable equity?? Sorry I haven't watched the hand again since this all broke last yr, so I don't recall her specific equity. I know she wasn't a big favorite when she called. I

 

[dkp993]

Please watch the video first before reading the rest below

https://twitter.com/HCLPokerShow/status/1575668051948687360?s=20

==============

During the investigation the following was discovered:

1) The player who won the hand eventually gave all the money back after a lot of harassment online

2) After the stream ended but with cameras still running, a member of the production crew who was responsible for bagging the chips removed $15k from the winners pile. He never admitted any compliance in cheating and said it was purely stealing.

3) The player who won the hand was brand new to these high stakes. It was found that another player at the table staked their entire starting stack

4) The investigation said that while they found many avenues that could be exploited for cheating, they could not prove anything happened. The Hustler casino made numerous changes to protect against the security holes that the investigation found.

5) The player was cleared to return to play and has resumed high stakes play this month on streaming

=========================================

When I first watched the hand with out knowing what happened after, I had assumed it was not cheating and that the hand was simply misread (if the player thought they had J3 the hand makes a little more sense as a bluff catcher, which is what they claimed in the after math, which clearly made no sense when holding J4).

Now I am not so sure.

What do you guys think?

I saw it not long after it happened. Didn‘t get the cheating vibe. She seemed in over her head and committed to a ****ty play. If you’ve ( not you specifically OP, the collective “you”) ever played enough competitive poker it happens to us all Occasionally. She knew it was a bad play then got luckly, once pressed on it ego steps in and won’t allow you to admit the ****ty play, you want to make it look like you planned it. Doing this only dug her a bigger hole with a player who couldn’t admit he just simply lost.

 

[dkp993]

Judging by her mannerisms and stammering after the fact…….cheating

See I read this as a **** player in over her head wanting to seem like she knows what she’s doing.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This is where I come out. Why would you have this elaborate cheating scheme set up, only to use it in a spot with minimal favorable equity?? Sorry I haven't watched the hand again since this all broke last yr, so I don't recall her specific equity. I know she wasn't a big favorite when she called. I

According to the video listed in the first post, when she called the all in it was 53/47 in his favor.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Doing this only dug her a bigger hole with a player who couldn’t admit he just simply lost.

But this was not just some amateur taking his shot or a rich casual player. The loser of the hand has had a ton of bad beats in his life, and lost tons of big money hands as he is a long time high stakes pro.

He was chuckling knowing he lost this hand until she turned over her hand. Had her hand been J3 instead of j4, he just shrugs and ships the money saying "good hand".

 

[msudaisy26]

For the first 4 minutes of the video I would say no cheating. I live in Michigan and we have charity poker rooms all over and I have been a dealer before. The weirdest hand I ever dealt was almost a 2000 dollar pot and it played out very similar to that hand. A guy called a 800 all in bet after the turn card with queen high and no draws. He won the pot when a jack came in the river. Everyone at the table was stunned. People were asking why he called and he said " I put him on 46 and that meant I had the best hand." He was exactly right. The flop was 553 the turn was an 8.

I thought it was cheating after she started talking and kept changing her answer.

 

[dkp993]

Doing this only dug her a bigger hole with a player who couldn’t admit he just simply lost.

But this was not just some amateur taking his shot or a rich casual pl. The loser of the hand has had a ton of bad beats in his life, and lost tons of big hands. He was chuckling knowing he lost this until she turned over her hand. Had her hand been J3 instead of j4, he just shrugs and ships the money saying "good hand".

Oh no, I get that, he’s big time. But ego’s still involved (on TV ego at that). And once he realized he lost to a **** player, playing a **** hand and her not even realizing what she did, he ends up having to rationalize the only way that happen is if she cheated.

 

[The Big Donkey]

saw this a few months ago, didn't think she was cheating.

 

[NewlyRetired]

not really related but here is a video posted of her mocking Helmuth after he lost a hand and quit the game.

PHIL QUITS but the table KEEPS MOCKING HIM ♠ Live at the Bike!

We stream REAL LIVE POKER cash games from the Bicycle Casino in Los Angeles! We are the first poker livestream show first airing in 2005!Live at the Bike is...

www.youtube.com

 

[dkp993]

She dug herself a hole, and ultimately drew suspicion, by trying to act like she knew what she was doing and that she had a plan. She didn’t, she got flustered and chose to ride out a bad play. Not admitting that caused this (Well that and him not letting it go).

 

[Zow]

not really related but here is a video posted of her mocking Helmuth after he lost a hand and quit the game.

PHIL QUITS but the table KEEPS MOCKING HIM ♠ Live at the Bike!

We stream REAL LIVE POKER cash games from the Bicycle Casino in Los Angeles! We are the first poker livestream show first airing in 2005!Live at the Bike is...

www.youtube.com

Oof that's a bad look by her. Honestly Phil's "can't I just lose a big pot and leave" point is totally fair.

 

[dkp993]

not really related but here is a video posted of her mocking Helmuth after he lost a hand and quit the game.

PHIL QUITS but the table KEEPS MOCKING HIM ♠ Live at the Bike!

We stream REAL LIVE POKER cash games from the Bicycle Casino in Los Angeles! We are the first poker livestream show first airing in 2005!Live at the Bike is...

www.youtube.com

Oof that's a bad look by her. Honestly Phil's "can't I just lose a big pot and leave" point is totally fair.

It 100% is, but your reputation follows you. And when you’ve made a career on being a cry baby it compounds the action.

 

[TakiToki]

This has no bearing on the cheating stuff, but since this is a football board, kinda funny to see this shortly after the incident.

https://twitter.com/jesselonis/status/1584319495643926528?s=46&t=0lws6WvW7Ygn3FrfsPaSZg

 

[bigbottom]

Re: #1 -- The money was given back almost immediately. The losing player, Garrett, got up a couple hands after the incident and went to talk the producer off-camera. They were then joined by the winning player, Robbie. The two players reportedly agreed to the return of the money on the condition that Garrett would continue playing in the game (he is the star of the streaming poker world and its top draw). However, Robbie's backer got hostile after hearing about the return of the money and started yelling obscenities. Garrett never did return to the game.

Garrett has also never softened his stance that he was cheated. He wound up publicly donating the amount of money from the hand ($135k) to Big Brothers/BIg Sisters, and to date has not given anything back to Robbie.

Great info thanks!

what is your opinion on the hand? Misread, cheating, or just poor play?

It wasn’t a misread based on some things she said at the table. So I’m going with cheating or it was just terrible play.

if it wasn't a misread, what type of bluff did she think she was catching?

At one point she said she put him on ace high which makes no sense unless she misread her hand. Of course she also says that he gave her too much credit for holding a small pair which also makes no sense if she knew she was holding j4

The whole thing is just inexplicable. But she specifically says that she didn’t have a three, and then said that she was checking the Jack when she looked at her cards. Couple those statements with her complete lack of surprise or reaction when she turned her cards and there is nothing that supports a misread to me in the moment. But who knows?

 

[bigbottom]

not really related but here is a video posted of her mocking Helmuth after he lost a hand and quit the game.

PHIL QUITS but the table KEEPS MOCKING HIM ♠ Live at the Bike!

We stream REAL LIVE POKER cash games from the Bicycle Casino in Los Angeles! We are the first poker livestream show first airing in 2005!Live at the Bike is...

www.youtube.com

Oof that's a bad look by her. Honestly Phil's "can't I just lose a big pot and leave" point is totally fair.

It 100% is, but your reputation follows you. And when you’ve made a career on being a cry baby it compounds the action.

The Persson Hellmuth heads up game when they went at each other was a train wreck, but so funny given Hellmuth’s history of bad behavior.

 

[Anarchy99]

To take a sidebar, was Dodds the one that posted about playing a cash game at a Vegas casino? I seem to remember him saying he flopped quad kings, people stayed in and there was a huge pot, and another king came on the river? (For the mathematically challenged, that would add up to a hand with 5 kings.) IIRC, he was furious that he couldn't take down a gigantic pot, but he was doubly furious that he couldn't take his stack with him because the house froze every chip on the table until they completed a full investigation and reviewed the eye in the sky tape to figure out what happened. This was years ago . . . does anyone else remember this, or was I on peyote that day?

 

[Zow]

To take a sidebar, was Dodds the one that posted about playing a cash game at a Vegas casino? I seem to remember him saying he flopped quad kings, people stayed in and there was a huge pot, and another king came on the river? (For the mathematically challenged, that would add up to a hand with 5 kings.) IIRC, he was furious that he couldn't take down a gigantic pot, but he was doubly furious that he couldn't take his stack with him because the house froze every chip on the table until they completed a full investigation and reviewed the eye in the sky tape to figure out what happened. This was years ago . . . does anyone else remember this, or was I on peyote that day?

I've played poker with Dodds in Vegas, but I don't recall this story...

 

[Galileo]

not really related but here is a video posted of her mocking Helmuth after he lost a hand and quit the game.

PHIL QUITS but the table KEEPS MOCKING HIM ♠ Live at the Bike!

We stream REAL LIVE POKER cash games from the Bicycle Casino in Los Angeles! We are the first poker livestream show first airing in 2005!Live at the Bike is...

www.youtube.com

Oof that's a bad look by her. Honestly Phil's "can't I just lose a big pot and leave" point is totally fair.

Although the criticism about Phil's poor decision to call is justified, she didn't even follow the hand correctly herself. She didn't realize Hick's had flopped the flush.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

The totality of the situation leads me to believe that some cheating may have occurred. By “totality”—I mean the player kinda changing her story about how she played the hand, the person from the production crew attempting to steal $15k..etc. With that said—my confusion is this. If the potential cheating is in regards to somehow getting knowledge of the other players hole cards—and not a stacked deck—this seems like a really bad hand to utilize such a huge advantage that cheating would give a player. If I was in a position to where I could play poker knowing the hole cards of my opponents—I wouldn’t use that advantage on an “all in hand” when I have nothing and my opponent has a lot of outs. Just seems like a completely stupid and risky way of manipulating that advantage. Lastly—when she called—she had to know that she would have to flip her cards—and that would expose how fishy her play was. In a weird way—one could argue that the stupidity in which the hand was played is almost an argument against cheating—as one would think that a cheater would be smarter and more sophisticated than that.

 

[fatness]

To take a sidebar, was Dodds the one that posted about playing a cash game at a Vegas casino? I seem to remember him saying he flopped quad kings, people stayed in and there was a huge pot, and another king came on the river? (For the mathematically challenged, that would add up to a hand with 5 kings.) IIRC, he was furious that he couldn't take down a gigantic pot, but he was doubly furious that he couldn't take his stack with him because the house froze every chip on the table until they completed a full investigation and reviewed the eye in the sky tape to figure out what happened. This was years ago . . . does anyone else remember this, or was I on peyote that day?

Was this in a pizzagate thread?

 

[Doug B]

Trying to watch the video first, but on my iPhone, Twitter is splashing the UI and a bunch of text all over the video and I can’t follow what’s happening.

I’ll read the thread and see if I can get the gist.

 

[massraider]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-10-27/la-fi-poker-scandal-bryan-sagbigsal

Story on the guy who stole the money. He seems like a train wreck, including threatening reporters. It's funny/sad that this guy stealing money from Lew is considered evidence that she cheated. I mean, I get it, when they are bagging chips her takes his cut, but still: her being robbed is not evidence that she cheated.

I don't have an opinion, I don't know enough about poker to have one, but one question:

What's the origin of the vibrating ring/chair? From what I have read, there's nothing backing this up, is that incorrect?

 

[Doug B]

What's the origin of the vibrating ring/chair? From what I have read, there's nothing backing this up, is that incorrect?

Sadly, I had to read up on this thing in The Daily Mail since I couldn't watch the video. In The Daily Mail article, there are photos of a garish stone ring with a big red stone. At some point (during the hand in question? Don't know) the stone falls out of the ring and there are photos of the damaged ring.

The story is that Lew put her hand under the table and intentionally damaged the ring, knocking out the "stone" so it wouldn't be ID'd as a cheating device later. Though if that stone was still on the floor ... I dunno. Sometimes costume jewelry just breaks, too. And it was The Daily Mail.

 

[nysfl2]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-10-27/la-fi-poker-scandal-bryan-sagbigsal

Story on the guy who stole the money. He seems like a train wreck, including threatening reporters. It's funny/sad that this guy stealing money from Lew is considered evidence that she cheated. I mean, I get it, when they are bagging chips her takes his cut, but still: her being robbed is not evidence that she cheated.

I don't have an opinion, I don't know enough about poker to have one, but one question:

What's the origin of the vibrating ring/chair? From what I have read, there's nothing backing this up, is that incorrect?

I can't fathom how that guy possibly thought he could get away with stealing the chips if he wasn't in on it with her. The money would obviously be identified as being short when she cashed out, and he knows the whole thing is on tape. And the guy just happened to have access to the production room during filming, so would know everyone's cards during the hands.

Add in that when it was brought to her attention, her response was "no big deal, I don't want to prosecute", and the whole sequence just makes zero sense for anyone involved unless they were working together.

 

[massraider]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-10-27/la-fi-poker-scandal-bryan-sagbigsal

Story on the guy who stole the money. He seems like a train wreck, including threatening reporters. It's funny/sad that this guy stealing money from Lew is considered evidence that she cheated. I mean, I get it, when they are bagging chips her takes his cut, but still: her being robbed is not evidence that she cheated.

I don't have an opinion, I don't know enough about poker to have one, but one question:

What's the origin of the vibrating ring/chair? From what I have read, there's nothing backing this up, is that incorrect?

I can't fathom how that guy possibly thought he could get away with stealing the chips if he wasn't in on it with her. The money would obviously be identified as being short when she cashed out, and he knows the whole thing is on tape. And the guy just happened to have access to the production room during filming, so would know everyone's cards during the hands.

Add in that when it was brought to her attention, her response was "no big deal, I don't want to prosecute", and the whole sequence just makes zero sense for anyone involved unless they were working together.

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I have already been reading, where people insert common sense into the kid with a criminal history, and her not wanting to press charges as "proof" they were in cahoots.

Many many people decline to press charges. I have done it. I was not in cahoots with the homeless guy who smelled like pee at the time.

Gambling is a sleazy business, I am ready to believe there was cheating. Phil Ivey and the baccarat thing, Ultimate Bet scandal, collusion during online games, etc. But there needs to be evidence.

My first instinct is that a really likable pro was caught in a bluff by an incredibly unlikable person who made a dumb call, and it paid off.

 

[Softballguy]

I saw it not long after it happened. Didn‘t get the cheating vibe. She seemed in over her head and committed to a ****ty play. If you’ve ( not you specifically OP, the collective “you”) ever played enough competitive poker it happens to us all Occasionally. She knew it was a bad play then got luckly, once pressed on it ego steps in and won’t allow you to admit the ****ty play, you want to make it look like you planned it. Doing this only dug her a bigger hole with a player who couldn’t admit he just simply lost.

Not calling an all-in with J high, we don't. Like ever.

 

[Anarchy99]

To take a sidebar, was Dodds the one that posted about playing a cash game at a Vegas casino? I seem to remember him saying he flopped quad kings, people stayed in and there was a huge pot, and another king came on the river? (For the mathematically challenged, that would add up to a hand with 5 kings.) IIRC, he was furious that he couldn't take down a gigantic pot, but he was doubly furious that he couldn't take his stack with him because the house froze every chip on the table until they completed a full investigation and reviewed the eye in the sky tape to figure out what happened. This was years ago . . . does anyone else remember this, or was I on peyote that day?

I've played poker with Dodds in Vegas, but I don't recall this story...

Trying to remember the details. It was probably 10+ years ago (as far as the thread goes), so the story was older than that. I think it was in a thread that someone started about winning and collecting bonus money from the house on premium hands. Someone mentioned having quads or a straight flush, and there were jackpots that casinos had if someone hit on one of those hands. As I remember it, whoever started the thread ended up not winning the jackpot because no one stayed in the hand (only called hands count towards the jackpot).

That's when someone chimed in that the secret phrase is for the player to ask the table if anyone could recommend a really good steakhouse for dinner. I don't play in casinos. but that apparently is the universal thing to say to get people just to call so you can win the jackpot. You are doing them a favor by allowing them to not throw in any additional money into the pot, so they get something out of it as well.

IIRC, that's when Dodds started telling his quad + 1 kings story (I think it was Dodds). The thread was so long ago that I'm guessing it got purged in the many board updates since. I looked for it but couldn't find it.