The inexact science of tackles and assists (1 Viewer)

[KCitons]

While watching the Jets/Bills game yesterday, I was following along on MFL live scoring. I had Demario Davis and my opponent had David Harris. Towards the end of the game, FJax catches a screen pass in the middle of the field, where Davis and Harris both tackle him. I think to myself, "that's a wash" I look at my other computer screen and see that Harris has 4 Tackles and 2 Assists. Davis has 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. About 30 seconds later, the score refreshes. Harris' line changes to 4 Tackles 3 assists, while Davis' stays at 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. Who assisted Harris with the other part of the tackle? Davis was the only other player in on the play?

It still hasn't been corrected as of today, It's such an inexact science when it comes to IDP scoring.

 

[KellysHeroes]

honestly, when it comes to IDPs do not watch MFL / Stat site and the game at the sametime; it truly is madding. My new rule of thumb this yr is to not leave my FF game in the hands of IDPs (aka the stat recorder at the game) on SNF and or MNF. Too many times in the past and a couple times already this yr I have lost games while watching my IDP make or assist on tackles and not get credit for it, or get assists when they clearly made the solo. Its just too frustrating and theres nothing you can do. Until there is a way to automate this process there will be human errors along with judgement calls and I rather just no see them.

My 3 exemptions for this rule will be the following

** a stud IDP is playing (especially at home), never bench your studs!

** a dream match up were the IDPs are going to be on the field all night

** If I have an offensive player playing in the night game(s) I'll pair them up with an IDP if my day IDPs are of lesser talent / tackle opportunities

Watch the games to scout the players you like; if your player is fast, aggressive and always slamming into the ball carrier / pile ups chances are their going to have a good stat line... it just may not be as accurate as you like.

 

[Azhais]

Tackles and assists are totally subjective things by the local stadium's stat crew. They aren't "official" stats and there isn't official guidance from the NFL on how to score them.

Some crews give out full tackles to the tackler and an assist to any assiters. Some give out a total of 1 tackle per tackle and that means two assists and no full tackles sometimes. Some crews decide that some guy that sorta delayed the dude 4 yards ago deserves an assist on the ultimate tackle.

The stadium your guy is playing in can make a HUGE difference in his scoring because of that.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

While watching the Jets/Bills game yesterday, I was following along on MFL live scoring. I had Demario Davis and my opponent had David Harris. Towards the end of the game, FJax catches a screen pass in the middle of the field, where Davis and Harris both tackle him. I think to myself, "that's a wash" I look at my other computer screen and see that Harris has 4 Tackles and 2 Assists. Davis has 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. About 30 seconds later, the score refreshes. Harris' line changes to 4 Tackles 3 assists, while Davis' stays at 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. Who assisted Harris with the other part of the tackle? Davis was the only other player in on the play?

It still hasn't been corrected as of today, It's such an inexact science when it comes to IDP scoring.

E.Manuel pass short right to F.Jackson pushed ob at BUF 29 for 17 yards (D.Davis)

E.Manuel pass short left to F.Jackson to BUF 44 for 4 yards (D.Davis; D.Harris)

these are the only two plays I could find in the gamebook that related to your description. Looks like the second is probably the one you are referring to and both players were given an assist on that play. Sounds like it was scored correctly based on your description of the play. Not sure how quickly MFL updates but maybe they didn't update at the same exact time.

In any event, there can be large differences in how each stadium stat crew assigns tackles. We've been discussing this in this forum and around FBG in general for years.

 

[Azhais]

I don't know if this is a subscriber article or not, but PFF did a 3 part series on the whole stat crew thing and how they affected things over the last 10 years:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/18/home-cookin-how-nfl-stats-crews-affect-idp-pt-1/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/05/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-2/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/23/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-3/

I suppose I could log out and see but that seems like a lot of work.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't know if this is a subscriber article or not, but PFF did a 3 part series on the whole stat crew thing and how they affected things over the last 10 years:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/18/home-cookin-how-nfl-stats-crews-affect-idp-pt-1/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/05/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-2/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/23/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-3/

I suppose I could log out and see but that seems like a lot of work.

that's free content -- thx for the link

 

[KellysHeroes]

I don't know if this is a subscriber article or not, but PFF did a 3 part series on the whole stat crew thing and how they affected things over the last 10 years:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/18/home-cookin-how-nfl-stats-crews-affect-idp-pt-1/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/05/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-2/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/23/home-cookin-how-nfl-stat-crews-affect-idp-pt-3/

I suppose I could log out and see but that seems like a lot of work.

that's free content -- thx for the link

pretty much, its all unofficial therefore the NFL really doesn't care. I would like if they had a training seminar more often instead of just every 10 - 20 yrs.

 

[KCitons]

honestly, when it comes to IDPs do not watch MFL / Stat site and the game at the sametime; it truly is madding. My new rule of thumb this yr is to not leave my FF game in the hands of IDPs (aka the stat recorder at the game) on SNF and or MNF. Too many times in the past and a couple times already this yr I have lost games while watching my IDP make or assist on tackles and not get credit for it, or get assists when they clearly made the solo. Its just too frustrating and theres nothing you can do. Until there is a way to automate this process there will be human errors along with judgement calls and I rather just no see them.

My 3 exemptions for this rule will be the following

** a stud IDP is playing (especially at home), never bench your studs!

** a dream match up were the IDPs are going to be on the field all night

** If I have an offensive player playing in the night game(s) I'll pair them up with an IDP if my day IDPs are of lesser talent / tackle opportunities

Watch the games to scout the players you like; if your player is fast, aggressive and always slamming into the ball carrier / pile ups chances are their going to have a good stat line... it just may not be as accurate as you like.

Normally, I don't watch IDP stats this closely. In a close game this week, so I was watching the action pretty closely.

While watching the Jets/Bills game yesterday, I was following along on MFL live scoring. I had Demario Davis and my opponent had David Harris. Towards the end of the game, FJax catches a screen pass in the middle of the field, where Davis and Harris both tackle him. I think to myself, "that's a wash" I look at my other computer screen and see that Harris has 4 Tackles and 2 Assists. Davis has 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. About 30 seconds later, the score refreshes. Harris' line changes to 4 Tackles 3 assists, while Davis' stays at 5 Tackles and 1 Assist. Who assisted Harris with the other part of the tackle? Davis was the only other player in on the play?

It still hasn't been corrected as of today, It's such an inexact science when it comes to IDP scoring.

E.Manuel pass short right to F.Jackson pushed ob at BUF 29 for 17 yards (D.Davis)

E.Manuel pass short left to F.Jackson to BUF 44 for 4 yards (D.Davis; D.Harris)

these are the only two plays I could find in the gamebook that related to your description. Looks like the second is probably the one you are referring to and both players were given an assist on that play. Sounds like it was scored correctly based on your description of the play. Not sure how quickly MFL updates but maybe they didn't update at the same exact time.

In any event, there can be large differences in how each stadium stat crew assigns tackles. We've been discussing this in this forum and around FBG in general for years.

Thanks Aaron. It is the second one you listed. I wondered if MFL updated Davis' just prior to me looking at the live scoring. Then, when it updated, it appeared that only Harris got the points. I replayed it twice, thinking that I had the wrong jersey number. I should probably just take a walk in the park on Sunday afternoons, it would be more relaxing.

I'm not sure if those are the same articles I've read before, but remember reading about the Skins and Colts scorekeepers from years past. Thanks for posting the articles. Excellent reading.

 

[Jedi Knight]

This is why our league scores tackles and assists the same. We used to score 1pt for a tackle and .5pts for an assist. Now both are worth .75pts.

 

[buster05]

I also watched the end of this one. Whats the rule on a player (Demario Davis) chasing a ball carrier out of bounce? It seems like half the official scores award a tackle in this situation and the other half doesnt..???

 

[KellysHeroes]

I also watched the end of this one. Whats the rule on a player (Demario Davis) chasing a ball carrier out of bounce? It seems like half the official scores award a tackle in this situation and the other half doesnt..???

that another tricky one, did the defender "force" them to run out of bounds or was the player running out on his own. Its up to the stat crew.

Also, when the QB slides, is that a tackle or end of play... up to the stat crew. I lost 2 games last yr when that last slide tackle would of given me a win.

 

[jomar]

I played against Justin Houston this week, who apparently had a monster game. I went through the play by play of the KC-PHI to see how he racked up all of his stats and found some weird things.

All of the stats (Sacks, Passes Defensed, FF and FR) matched up with the play by play except Tackles, Tackles for Loss, and Assists. according to the play by play, he had 1 tackle, 1 TFL, and no assists. in my IDP scoring, he was awarded 6 tackles and 4 TFL plus 1 Assist.

I'm wondering if a TFL also counts as a Tackle? and does a Sack also count as a TFL? or are stats not determined by the play by play? things are not adding up so its gotta be one of these things unless the guy who added up the stats was having a bad day....

 

[KCitons]

I played against Justin Houston this week, who apparently had a monster game. I went through the play by play of the KC-PHI to see how he racked up all of his stats and found some weird things.

All of the stats (Sacks, Passes Defensed, FF and FR) matched up with the play by play except Tackles, Tackles for Loss, and Assists. according to the play by play, he had 1 tackle, 1 TFL, and no assists. in my IDP scoring, he was awarded 6 tackles and 4 TFL plus 1 Assist.

I'm wondering if a TFL also counts as a Tackle? and does a Sack also count as a TFL? or are stats not determined by the play by play? things are not adding up so its gotta be one of these things unless the guy who added up the stats was having a bad day....

I believe you are correct that a sack can also include points for TFL. I believe MFL also gives pass defended points for an interception.

I've looked in the past for a way to adjust this, but I don't believe MFL has any way to score it for just one of the categories.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

sacks are a tackle and a tfl

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I believe MFL also gives pass defended points for an interception. I've looked in the past for a way to adjust this, but I don't believe MFL has any way to score it for just one of the categories.

every interception is automatically awarded a PD as well. this isn't an MFL thing. It's in the NFL playbooks this way.

 

[jomar]

after further research, it looks like Sacks and TFL are also scored as Tackles.

Sacks are not recorded as TFL, however

 

[JOBOOZOSO]

Patriots stat guy is a nightmare.

He hates Solos. If Mayo has a guy wrapped up and another player puts his pinky on the runner, he gives both guys Assists.

I'm deep at IDP in the league I own Mayo - no dumb assists in this league - so I'm benching him when the Pats are home. It's that bad.

 

[johnnyboy8102]

Take a look at London Fletcher's home/road splits the past few seasons.

He is a 5/6 tackle per game guy on the road and doubles that at home.