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The INFLATION Thread, aka “The Putin Price Hike” (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ekbeats
- Start date
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
What is the correct number? The existence of the minimum wage concept implies it can’t be left up to the businesses themselves, or the free market.
So how does one determine an appropriate minimum wage?
Cost of living index might be a good start but minimum wage jobs are not meant to be permanent jobs imo. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it’s really purchasing power thats important as the cost of labor increases so does the cost of goods and services wiping out raises from an increasing minimum wage. The real challenge is lowering the cost of living (government, tax’s, utilities etc) and offering pathways out of the minimum wage jobs for people that are interested.
I’m supportive of increasing minimum wage but suggest it’s done based on statistics vs campaign slogan. In addition, there must be off-setting triggers for businesses or families that are significantly impacted financially when you increase the minimum wage.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Do you believe the minimum wage has kept up with cost of living or inflation over the years?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
How many non kids, non charity types, non illegal immigrants are working minimum wage jobs?
37 people.
37 people.
sho nuff
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
1. Do you have any real numbers?
2. What does “charity types” mean?
3. What’s the point of this post?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
nobody on the left wants to admit that raising labor costs and higher taxes = inflation
they'll blame everything else but those two factors
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I mean actual charity. Lots of organizations out there that line up jobs for people that cant really perform jobs adequately. They get social security disability and other monies that ultimately a job doesnt increase. If they earn 200 bucks working, 200 bucks is basically deducted(oversimplifying a bit, but mostly the case). The charity might assign a helper to go help for many hours of the day. The agreement is usually minimum wage since it is more about just getting them involved in their community.
Its amazing how many "excuses" there have been for rising costs...
Chlorine shortage- factory fire in August
Gas shortage- delivery driver shortage
Gas prices rising- Russian hackers
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ok...sure...and I know you were being hyperbolic...but I think your idea of who all is performing minimum wage jobs and the numbers are way off then.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Less than 2% of all jobs pay minimum wage. Once you remove all the things i mentioned how many can actually be left?
sho nuff
Footballguy
There actually were Russian Hackers that shut down a pipeline. That isn't an excuse...its an actual fact of what has happened. Its causing shortages and rising prices in some areas.
Prices have risen steadily over the last year (you know...people driving and traveling again after being mostly at home.
Its amazing how actual facts are taken as excuses...
sho nuff
Footballguy
zThen that less than 2% getting a rise in pay to coincide with cost of living/inflation should not cause prices in goods to rise so significantly...should it?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Thats not how this works. Government interference should never be justified by saying this shouldnt really screw up too much.
The Commish
Footballguy
Didn't think I'd have to bump this part THIS soon....rising prices are but one piece of the equation when labeling something "inflated". Inflation and "rising prices" are NOT synonyms.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Nobody is saying that. People are just asking for some factual, clinical approach to assessing the causes of price spikes we are seeing.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
those events go away
increasing the cost of minimum, unskilled labor by 10-20 and even 50% doesn't
sho nuff
Footballguy
The point is...if the argument against is complains about the cost of goods...being only 2% of all jobs would make that not a very compelling argument.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I don't see how you can argue this and not conceded that they currently are interfering and it's screwing things up. But maybe you are ok with removing a minimum wage altogether.
Not in certain areas where cost of living is expensive. That’s why the $15 minimum wage is simply a campaign slogan that mainly benefits unions and not working poor in the long run.
I know from my business that we give everyone a raise after minimum wage increase so this impacts most employees that are hourly. In addition, most union contracts are tied to minimum wage so if it increases so do the wages paid under union contract. For example, contract stipulates starting hourly rate per hour is 150% of state minimum wage.
Regarding minimum wage, my state will go from $10.10 to $15.00 over 5 years. Currently at $12 now with $1 increases 9/21, 9/22 and 9/23. My personal experiences as I was very involved with our state government regarding this issue was it’s really all the unions pushing. Mainly healthcare, janitorial, grocery and contractors. All their contracts are tied to the minimum wage.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I don’t think there are many areas at all that the federal minimum wage has kept up. Im not just talking in places of high cost of living. like NY or SF.
I have no problem adjusting federal minimum for inflation annually. But let be honest, $15 goes further in rural America vs urban/high cost areas so again, it makes no practical sense for $15 for all.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
No, it hasn't. Here is the inflation adjusted graph of minimum wages over the years. Based on this and the damage it would do the thought of a $15 minimum is general insanity. I have been a proponent of raising the fed minimum to about $10 and then tag it to CPI, like we do SS. The fact that this has never been done previously (what, 16 times before?) is execrable conduct by Congress.
But, really, anything over $10 is too much and will end up hurting more than helping. (I'd also argue that the wage for under 18 be lower, maybe $8.50. The best way to get a job is to have had a job and this would encourage teenage employment).
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure...maybe more state to state with federal oversight to ensure states follow along.
I think $15 has some statistical support for being phased that way based on inflation.
Sand
Footballguy
Yeah, no.
States and localities should be able to freely set their own minimum wages without Big Brother breathing down their necks. I have no issue with a low, fair federal minimum that would be appropriate in Iuka, MS and a higher local minimum wage in Seattle.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Except when they don’t keep up with cost of living and inflation.
Because this would end up being a red state vs blue state issue.
Caveman33
Footballguy
How many of the people begrudging the minimum wage workers a few dollars are willing to honestly scrutinize their own bloated salaries? Our society has created barriers to employment that aren't based on skill or ability. Minimum wage workers are some of the few who aren't overpaid. I recently visited an ER during the overnight hours and saw that the healthcare heroes, who earn good wages and benefits, were unable to operate an MRI machine or make a plaster splint. These are simple tasks that a middle schooler could be trained to do.
But I don't know if a higher minimum wage will level the field. SoCal still pays less for labor than other parts of the country with much lower min wage. Aggressive taxation of wealth and high earnings is needed. It's a shame that we are not having a class struggle, but it appears that the elites have effectively used race to divide the poors and keep them poor.
But I don't know if a higher minimum wage will level the field. SoCal still pays less for labor than other parts of the country with much lower min wage. Aggressive taxation of wealth and high earnings is needed. It's a shame that we are not having a class struggle, but it appears that the elites have effectively used race to divide the poors and keep them poor.
Sand
Footballguy
That's why the Feds should implement a CPI adjustment to minimum wage - it will take care of this issue.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
That wasnt really the conversation sho and I were having. I get we kind of went on a tangent, so I will bow out here with that part.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure. That vs what I was saying was leave it up to the states to do so...with federal oversight to ensure they do.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
I certainly don’t begrudge them. Many of them are my customers. I begrudge the system that is paying people more not to work than min wage employees. That is a really bad system.Caveman33 said:
The Commish
Footballguy
There needs to be an increase in price and a devalue of the dollar (dollar "worth" less).
djmich
Footballguy
Help me...for real not trying to be a pita.
A dollar is a dollar. If today it can buy 100 "things" and tomorrow it can only buy "99 things" because the price of things went up (inflation occurred)...then a dollar is worth less.
What I'm missing is how prices change in a vacuum relative to a dollar devaluing...aren't they inter-related? Maybe better said, when is it that the price of things go up and my dollar is worth more...are you talking just relative to other currencies?
Sand
Footballguy
Right now a state minimum wage must be higher than the federal, so they're two different entities. I guess it would be possible for a state to have a higher minimum wage with no CPI and eventually degrades into a federal one with a CPI.
The Commish
Footballguy
A dollar isnt a dollar. Its value changes in comparison to other currencies. It can be worth more today than tomorrow or vice versa. Inflation happens when that value decreases AND things get more expensive.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
If the price went up because the item became rare or in high demand, that isnt inflation. There is usually another item that people can buy instead, or there likely will be.
When all the items go up, thats inflation. (Obviously some exceptions)
So if for example everybody wanted veggie burgers all of a sudden and the price goes through the roof. Well that should leave lots of beef to be had for cheap. Or pork or chicken.
If all of it goes up, thats inflation. Unless all of a sudden everybody just decided to eat more.
djmich
Footballguy
The currency comparisons aside, this is sort of what I was getting at.
High demand seems to be "out of the equation" for how people interpret inflation and I just don't think that's correct. Supply and demand drive price. If price is going up and the driver is demand...then thats inflation. Not sure why we're splitting hairs if its the price of my baseball card collection or bananas.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
It always amazed me that the CPA firm I started at in the mid-90s straight out of college had figured out how to index per diem by city/state area and then adjusted it annually for inflation while our government can’t figure out how to do it for the minimum wage 25 years later.Sand said:
Sand
Footballguy
Stoneworker
Footballguy
This is simply not true.
In 2019, the U.S. had 2.3% CPI price inflation, yet the value of dollar increased (DXY index went from 90.1 to 96.3).
Price inflation within an economy is a totally separate concept from currency value relative to other currencies.
The former is purchasing power measured relative to a basket of goods and services, the latter is influenced by other factors including interest rates, demand in global trade, etc.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/
Starting to feel like the 70’s isn’t it? Long gas lines, shortages, high gas prices, highest increase in inflation in 12 years, rising crime rates, an ineffective President who appears feeble and out of touch...
shadrap
Footballguy
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