The Johan Santana rumor mill (1 Viewer)

[Kiddnets]

If Mets steal him without giving up Wright or reyes it would be a great deal IMO - prospects? What did they get for Lastings Milledge? How did Generation K work out? Mets are a now team and are DYING for a stud like Santana in the rotation - plus Twins send him to the NJ and Boston/NYY are happy that neither got him.

good move for all!

 

[Deranged Hermit]

The Twins are expected to trade their star lefthander before spring training, and it might not be for any immediate help.By BASEBALL INSIDER JOE CHRISTENSEN, Star Tribune Last update: January 16, 2008 - 10:31 PM The Johan Santana trade discussions have reached a quiet but crucial stage.The Twins know what they can get. And they realize none of the packages will appease their fans, who might never forgive them for trading the two-time Cy Young Award winner.Still, Twins officials privately say they think Santana will be traded before spring training opens next month.For now, the Twins and the three most interested Santana suitors -- the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox -- are regrouping, trying to decide how far beyond their comfort zones they will go to close this deal. The end result might leave some Twins fans gasping for breath.It's possible the Twins will trade Santana without landing one player who is universally recognized as a big help in 2008.Lately, the Twins have seemed most intrigued with the Mets' offer.The Mets are offering some combination of the following five players: Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey.Gomez, 22, could step in immediately as the Twins' starting center fielder, but some scouts are skeptical about his bat.The Twins are much higher on Martinez, 19, and Guerra, 18, even though they realize both might be in the minors until 2010.As for Humber and Mulvey, neither projects as better than a No. 4 starter.But if the Red Sox and Yankees don't improve their offers -- and the Twins have reason to believe they won't -- Santana could wind up with the Mets.The Twins would make that deal and step into a public relations nightmare.The media isn't kind at those moments. Just look at Twins history.When they traded Chuck Knoblauch to the Yankees in February 1998, then-General Manager Terry Ryan was ripped for not getting New York to surrender prospects Ricky Ledee, Ramiro Mendoza and Luis de los Santos.The Twins settled for Eric Milton, Cristian Guzman, Brian Buchanan and Danny Mota. None was expected to reach the big leagues that first season, but Milton did, joining the starting rotation. Guzman took over at shortstop in 1999.The headline writers had a field day. A sampling:"Twins' Ryan booted this one.""Stealing second.""Deal reveals Minny madness."Mendoza remained a key reliever and occasional starter for the Yankees. But de los Santos went on to appear in only three big-league games.Ledee was the quintessential five-tool prospect. The common criticism went, "How could the Twins trade a four-time All-Star and not get Ledee?"Well, Ledee never matched the hype. He retired last season after years of failing to impress as a big-league regular.Milton and Guzman started the 1997 season at Class A. When they joined the Twins the following year, most people said, who?Both became All-Stars.Knoblauch played in four World Series for the Yankees, but the trade paid huge dividends for the Twins.Minnesota eventually traded Milton to Philadelphia for Carlos Silva and Nick Punto, and Buchanan got traded to San Diego for another little-known minor leaguer named Jason Bartlett.If the Twins don't get Phil Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury for Santana, many will look at the holes they have left for 2008 and judge the trade as a failure. But maybe Hughes and Ellsbury will never match the hype.Time will be the true judge.In 2003, some thought the Twins were fleeced when they sent A.J. Pierzynski to the Giants for Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano.That day, Giants GM Brian Sabean said, "It's not often that you can send a reliever and two unproven prospects for a front-line, lefthanded-hitting All-Star catcher."Yeah, silly Twins.Joe Christensen • jchristensen@startribune.com

As a Mets fan used to disappointment in our prospects: I'll take the chance the Twins fleece us.....

 

[shadyridr]

If Mets steal him without giving up Wright or reyes it would be a great deal IMO - prospects? What did they get for Lastings Milledge? How did Generation K work out? Mets are a now team and are DYING for a stud like Santana in the rotation - plus Twins send him to the NJ and Boston/NYY are happy that neither got him. good move for all!

im praying the Mets get him

 

[Gopher State]

If Mets steal him without giving up Wright or reyes it would be a great deal IMO - prospects? What did they get for Lastings Milledge? How did Generation K work out? Mets are a now team and are DYING for a stud like Santana in the rotation - plus Twins send him to the NJ and Boston/NYY are happy that neither got him. good move for all!

im praying the Mets get him

I praying that Hank takes over the deal making process so the Twins can get what they want from the Yankees

 

[shadyridr]

If Mets steal him without giving up Wright or reyes it would be a great deal IMO - prospects? What did they get for Lastings Milledge? How did Generation K work out? Mets are a now team and are DYING for a stud like Santana in the rotation - plus Twins send him to the NJ and Boston/NYY are happy that neither got him. good move for all!

im praying the Mets get him

I praying that Hank takes over the deal making process so the Twins can get what they want from the Yankees

Im sure you are. I hope not

 

[ooofffaaa]

The Mets definitely need him more than the Yankees & Red Sox.

They'll give up their entire fram system to get him

They'll sign him for 6-7 years at roughly 150 million.

And then he'll blow out his arm sometime in 2008.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Source: Yankees pull trade offer for SantanaJanuary 14ESPN.com"For the second time this offseason, the Yankees have pulled their Phil Hughes-centered trade offer for Johan Santana off the table. The Yankees, then, will not restart trade talks with the Twins unless Hank Steinbrenner has another change of heart, a baseball official with knowledge of the talks told 1050 ESPN Radio's Andrew Marchand."

Hank has already become a joke. It is obvious that whatever he says you can not believe. If he says sign now or we won't renegotiate later, ignore him. He's bluffing. If he says that the yanks are out of the trade talks, ignore him, he's bluffing.

Again, just the F up Hank. Why make a comment that they are out? Why make any comment other than a deal is done? This guy is a joke

 

[Liquid Tension]

Listen to the Twins GM Bill Smith

"I'm not going to start responding to every report coming out of New York or Boston."

"You never want to lock yourself out of an opportunity to make yourself better."

Now Hank

"At this point I think that it kind of looks like we probably won't do it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to," Hank said. "I'm kind of back and forth on it, and some people don't want to do it because of the money."

"Just strictly because of the money, they are advising not to," Hank said. "But ... nobody would ever say 'don't do it' as far as getting Santana because nobody could say that.

the door definitely isn't completely closed

It really comes down to if I want to do it, I can do it, but I want to try and keep everybody happy.

Holy crap, he is a moron

 

[pigskin pimp]

Imagine:

Twin's Gm Billy Smith should just take Johan off the table, announce that Johan is the Missah, and Minnesota will do everything they can to sign him.

In less than 48 hours, Omar would would be tar and feathered for failing to obtain a premier player and dealing a once untouchable prospect (Lasting Milledge) for an old aging C and a platoon OF as signature deals after a historic collapse. Omar's offer: Reyes and Wright for Santana, Punto, and Slowey.

Hank goes nuts. His bi-polar, take charge persona is is on tilt when he realizes he had no power what so ever, and Cashman and Hal are working the fianances and 40 man roster. Hal then announces he is or is not the father of Paris Hilton's baby. He may or may not be willing to go 18 years of child support. First, he must check with Hal and Cashman. Hal then is quoted that even if he didn't have sex with Paris, he may like to have sex with her in the future. Or not. Or if they have sex, it does not involve Phillip Hughes. Or it does. Maybe a 3-some, after he checks in with Hal. Offer: Hughes, Cabrera, and Hank's love child for Santana.

Boston does nothing. Offer: whatever we're Boston, we control the media, the sporting culture of the three top sports, and the curse has been lifted. New offer: Crisp straight up for Santana and Mauer.

***I say the NYM blink first***

***This is tongue in cheek, before any of you NY boys get worked up***

 

[wilked]

Missah?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Imagine:Twin's Gm Billy Smith should just take Johan off the table, announce that Johan is the Missah, and Minnesota will do everything they can to sign him.In less than 48 hours, Omar would would be tar and feathered for failing to obtain a premier player and dealing a once untouchable prospect (Lasting Milledge) for an old aging C and a platoon OF as signature deals after a historic collapse. Omar's offer: Reyes and Wright for Santana, Punto, and Slowey.Hank goes nuts. His bi-polar, take charge persona is is on tilt when he realizes he had no power what so ever, and Cashman and Hal are working the fianances and 40 man roster. Hal then announces he is or is not the father of Paris Hilton's baby. He may or may not be willing to go 18 years of child support. First, he must check with Hal and Cashman. Hal then is quoted that even if he didn't have sex with Paris, he may like to have sex with her in the future. Or not. Or if they have sex, it does not involve Phillip Hughes. Or it does. Maybe a 3-some, after he checks in with Hal. Offer: Hughes, Cabrera, and Hank's love child for Santana.Boston does nothing. Offer: whatever we're Boston, we control the media, the sporting culture of the three top sports, and the curse has been lifted. New offer: Crisp straight up for Santana and Mauer.***I say the NYM blink first******This is tongue in cheek, before any of you NY boys get worked up***

LOL and you didn't need a disclaimer

 

[Liquid Tension]

Missah?

It is a Boston way of saying it...kind of like pahk the cah

 

[the moops]

Missah?

It is a Boston way of saying it...kind of like pahk the cah

Still makes no sense.

 

[Gopher State]

The Twins continue to be patient in their attempt to trade two-time Cy Young winner Johan Santana. But you wonder how much longer can they wait with pitchers and catchers set to report to spring training in less than a month.

The Red Sox, Mets and Yankees remain interested - yes, I mentioned the Yanks because no one believes they are out of it until Santana changes uniforms.

Today, I feel like trying to swing a deal with the Mets, who need Santana the most. I’ve spent the past few days throwing out a trade scenario to people with knowledge of negotiations.

The Mets are trying to nab Santana with a package of prospects because they can’t afford to trade one of their established major leaguers. They have offered center fielder Carlos Gomez, and three pitchers: Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber.

This package lacks major league ready players. According to scouts, Gomez has a chance to be a Alex Rios-type player if he hits - which is a big question mark. Guerra is a top prospect but is still a couple years away. Mulvey can be a middle of the rotation starter. Humber is considered a No. 4 or 5 starter.

But the Twins are willing to take a prospect-laden package if super prospect Fernando Martinez is added to the deal. The Mets are against this deal because it would clean out their farm system.

How do you break the deadlock?

One MLB scout I spoke with Sunday feels that the Twins should throw a prospect into the deal to get the Mets to add Martinez. The question is what caliber of prospect would the Mets want in return. The Twins have several pitching prospects and a few position players to choose from.

Here’s my suggestion: Tell the Mets to keep Gomez (since there are questions about his ceiling) but add Martinez, then either sign a free agent to start in center this year (Kenny Lofton? Corey Patterson?) or trade for Coco Crisp.

I admit there are a couple issues with my approach. One, are you willing to accept a deal for Santana that doesn’t return someone ready to step into the lineup?

It also suggests that I don’t think the Twins are contenders next season because I’m looking for a stop-gap center fielder until Denard Span steps up or Ben Revere or Joe Benson develop. And I really do wonder how the Twins can compete next season when Scott Baker is the No. 1 starter, when no one knows how much rust Francisco Liriano will have to knock off and when Detroit, Chicago and Cleveland look formidable on paper.

Are Twins fans O.K. with a Santana-for-prospects deal? It’s an interesting question. The Twins won’t get fair talent back because of Santana’s contract demands. They have to make the best deal they can. Do you like what the Mets are offering versus one of the packages the Red Sox are willing to offer or a Phillip Hughes-Melky Cabrera led package from the Yankees (once they get back in this thing)?

Chew on that, and I’ll leave you with one more thought:

Being a Bears fan, any day the Packers lose is a good day

Latest Minneapolis Star and Tribune

 

[Kiddnets]

I don't care if the Mets include both Gomez and Martinez - getting Santana without giving up a core player?

this is a deal they have to make!

 

[ooofffaaa]

I don't care if the Mets include both Gomez and Martinez - getting Santana without giving up a core player? this is a deal they have to make!

I'm starting to agree with this more and more everyday. They certainly need Johan more than any other team - especially when you consider only 1-2 Mets SP's are signed after 2008 - Maine & Pelfrey.BUT who are the Mets competing with?The Yankees & Red Sox only seem to be concerned with keeping him away from each other.What team (other than the Mets) is going to give up a large part of their farm system AND sign him for 150 million ??It looks like Omar is waiting it out with the hopes of his price coming down.

 

[Wrigley]

I don't care if the Mets include both Gomez and Martinez - getting Santana without giving up a core player? this is a deal they have to make!

I'm starting to agree with this more and more everyday. They certainly need Johan more than any other team - especially when you consider only 1-2 Mets SP's are signed after 2008 - Maine & Pelfrey.BUT who are the Mets competing with?The Yankees & Red Sox only seem to be concerned with keeping him away from each other.What team (other than the Mets) is going to give up a large part of their farm system AND sign him for 150 million ??It looks like Omar is waiting it out with the hopes of his price coming down.

Screw going after Bedard.....I wish the Cubs would make a move on Santana

 

[Gopher State]

First of all, the Twins continue to talk to the Mets, Red Sox AND YANKEES about deals for Johan Santana. Despite the Yankees claiming that they are out of the running, I’ve been told the Twins have spoken with all three teams in recent days.

This doesn’t surprise me. Both New York teams need starting pitching help. Mets starters were 66-53 last season, including 13 wins from Tom Glavine. The Yankees are counting on Andy Pettitte, who will turn 36 during the season, to lead their rotation.

I kept being told that the Twins are willing to go to spring training with Santana, although that would be the worst-case scenario. For now, the Twins have stepped up their efforts to make a deal with one of these teams before camp opens.

Back in December, I pointed out that the White Sox had 11 players under contract for a little under $100 million. Indications were that they were hitting their imposed payroll ceiling.

But GM Kenny Williams has continued to press forward. He traded for Nick Swisher and Carlos Quentin. Quentin isn’t making much but Swisher will make $3.5 million this year as part of a five-year, $26.75 million deal.

This week, Williams signed Octavio Dotel for two years and $11 million and finalized the deal for Cuban defector Alexei Ramirez.

Latest from Minneapolis Star an Tribune

 

[Alias]

Latest from the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

 

[Gopher State]

Latest from the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

Don't understand why the mets will not let both Gomez and Martinez go, their top prospects true, but not pitching prospects.Santana would be the difference maker for the mets.

 

[ooofffaaa]

Latest from the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

Don't understand why the mets will not let both Gomez and Martinez go, their top prospects true, but not pitching prospects.Santana would be the difference maker for the mets.

I totally understand what you're saying and I agree with you somewhat but answer the following question for me:What other team out there is willing to give up 4-5 of their top prospects AND sign Santana for 150 million for the next 7 years?Omar Minaya is waiting this out to see if the price comes down within the next 2 weeks.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Latest from the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.

A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

Interesting. I knew there was more to that Milledge trade than meets the eye.....

 

[RBM]

Interesting. Wonder what the plan for right field would be.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Latest from the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.

A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

Don't understand why the mets will not let both Gomez and Martinez go, their top prospects true, but not pitching prospects.Santana would be the difference maker for the mets.

I totally understand what you're saying and I agree with you somewhat but answer the following question for me:What other team out there is willing to give up 4-5 of their top prospects AND sign Santana for 150 million for the next 7 years?

Omar Minaya is waiting this out to see if the price comes down within the next 2 weeks.

Boston is...

 

[Gopher State]

The Twins don't want to bring Santana to spring training amidst all of this uncertainty but they also must try to maximize trade value.

By TWINS INSIDER LA VELLE E. NEAL III, Star Tribune

Last update: January 25, 2008 - 7:10 AM

Johan Santana will not be at TwinsFest this weekend, but one wonders if Santana will be in Fort Myers, Fla., with his old teammates on Feb. 17 when pitchers and catchers report to spring training.

The Twins have spent the offseason bogged down in talks with the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets about their two-time Cy Young Award winner. They've tried different approaches to get a deal done, but with no success. And fans shouldn't hold their breath hoping the Twins will suddenly sign Santana to a contract extension. One Twins official said this week there have been no recent contract talks.

The Twins don't want to bring Santana to camp under these circumstances, but they also don't want to trade him for what they perceive as 20 cents on the dollar in terms of talent return.

However, the worst-case scenario will begin to play out this weekend at TwinsFest, as single-game tickets will go on sale to a fan base trying to determine if they will have Santana in a Twins uniform or someone from the group of Carlos Gomez, Phillip Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury to root for.

This scenario will worsen as spring training nears and Santana is bombarded by national media questions about his future and teammates will be asked daily for their thoughts. Neither the Twins nor Santana's camp want that to happen. It's such a concern that Peter Greenberg, Santana's agent, admitted during a telephone conversation this week that he will need to discuss strategy with Santana soon on how to handle things if he is forced to report to camp with the Twins.

What Greenberg wouldn't address is if Santana will refuse to waive his no-trade clause once he reports, but that possibility surely exists. It's unclear if the Twins have been told that yet -- but it appears that they have stepped up their efforts to make a deal happen before camp begins.

The Twins have been in contact with all three teams this week. Let's begin with the Mets because they currently appear to have the best chance of landing Santana.

The Twins would like the Mets to add outfield prospect Fernando Martinez to a package of outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Philip Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra. According to persons familiar with talks, the Mets view Martinez as practically untouchable and might not include him even to replace Gomez in the deal. The clubs have talked about adding another player to the deal, such as pitcher Aaron Heilman. A report out of New York on Thursday had Ryan Church as a possible addition.

The Yankees remain in contact despite claiming recently that they have pulled out of talks. Another person with knowledge of the talks said a lot of discussion has focused on the third and fourth players in any deal, which suggests that top pitching prospect Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera remain the top players in the package.

The Red Sox have been willing to tweak the back end of their offers to make a trade, but the Twins still would have to work with either a deal led by outfield prospect Jacoby Ellsbury or another led by lefthander Jon Lester -- but not both in the same deal. The Red Sox seem the least likely to deal for Santana at this point because they don't need him as much as the other teams do -- but there's always the concern that the Yankees will land Santana and make things tough for the Sox in the AL East.

If the worst-case scenario continues into spring training, look for the Twins to sign a temporary fix for center field -- such as Kenny Lofton or Corey Patterson. The next week should determine if the Twins really need such a contingency plan.

La Velle E. Neal III • lneal@startribune.com

 

[Gopher State]

By SID HARTMAN, Star Tribune

Last update: January 24, 2008 - 9:33 PM

The Mets and Yankees have made it clear they will not meet the demands of Johan Santana's agents and sign the Twins' star lefthander to a seven-year contract calling for upwards of $140 million if they acquired Santana in a trade.

George Steinbrenner's son, Hank, who currently has the final say in Yankees matters, told me the other day they would not give any pitcher a contract for that many years.

The Mets never have given a player more than a five-year contract, and they would be averse to changing that policy.

The Red Sox have not made any comments about length of contract for the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

However, the Red Sox surely are aware of Santana's career record in Fenway Park. He was 1-3 with a 6.89 ERA through 2006, and he didn't pitch there at all last year. Fenway Park never has been kind to southpaws.

So maybe the Twins' offer is a pretty good one. Santana will be paid $13.25 million in 2008 and the Twins offered him a four-year deal at $20 million or a total $80 million guaranteed. The Giants signed pitcher Barry Zito to a seven-year contract for $126 million last year, and the result was the former Oakland lefthander had an ordinary record of 11-13. The experience the Giants had might dissuade clubs from giving that type of contract to Santana.

No doubt the Twins have to be concerned about the huge multiyear contracts it will take to sign first baseman Justin Morneau and right fielder Michael Cuddyer and the big money they are paying catcher Joe Mauer. Then they have a big decision whether to sign the best relief pitcher in baseball -- Joe Nathan -- who will be a free agent after earning $6 million this year.

There currently is a lot of negativity when it comes to interest in the Twins, now that center fielder Torii Hunter has moved on to the Angels.

The Pohlad family could revive that interest overnight by finding a way to keep Santana. There will be a lot of unhappy fans if Santana is traded to the Mets for a bunch of prospects.

Owner Carl Pohlad found ways to keep Kent Hrbek and Kirby Puckett in Minnesota.

There has to be some way to keep Santana so he can anchor an extremely young pitching staff in 2008, especially because the Tigers, Indians, White Sox and even the Royals have improved their teams.

Some teams have used deferred contracts to retain their stars. Maybe that would work for the Twins and Santana.

 

[Gopher State]

The Twins have three options with Johan Santana:

Give him a bank-breaking six-year contract.

Keep him for a run at the 2008 AL Central title, then let him walk.

Trade him.

The first two options are pretty unlikely, so, even though there have been no real developments since Santana officially went on the block in early December, the odds still suggest the Twins will trade arguably the greatest pitcher in team history while he's in his prime. Depressing, I know.

The Yankees (still in it despite what they say), Red Sox and Mets are the suitors. And while no deal that sends away a two-time Cy Young winner will be much fun, the Twins can still come out OK.

The Red Sox are offering outfield super-prospect Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitcher Jed Masterson. Or if the Twins prefer, they could sub lefty starter Jon Lester for Ellsbury. Ellsbury has a shot to be a Kenny Lofton-type leadoff guy, but I still don't think the Sox are offering enough.

The Mets are offering a nice package of several youngsters. If the Twins can get them to include Fernando Martinez (a Carlos Beltran clone) and pitcher Deolis Guerra (who dominated Single-A at age 17), that would be a sweet deal. But it's one that wouldn't pay dividends for a while, as both are currently 19.

Then there's the Yankees' offer, which supposedly includes Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera. I honestly don't know why the Twins haven't pulled the trigger on this one yet. Hughes might be the game's best pitching prospect, and he's ready now.

Cabrera is already holding his own as a big-league outfielder at the age of 22, and I'd guess he'll only get better. I like this deal the best because Hughes and Cabrera are ready to help now, and have much less risk involved.

Sure the Twins could get lucky with a bunch of prospects, but what if none of them pan out? I say get the Yanks back to the table - and get it over with.

Reach Matt Zimmer at 331-2265 at mzimmer@argusleader.com.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

The "heresy" spoken by some in regard to maybe Johan's effectiveness taking a dip should be a little more credible with this little piece from Olney's blog:

Buster Olney on Johan's warning signs: I talked with evaluators and scouts with three other teams since then, and they all saw the exact same thing in Santana: diminishment in velocity, relatively few sliders thrown, subpar (for Santana) performances. But two of the three believe the regression could be attributed to the Twins not being in the race, Minnesota not playing in a high-adrenalin situation, and Santana coping with a cracked nail. The third evaluator wonders, too, if Santana is OK. "If a deal is made, you could see there would be a complete physical, given the money involved," said the evaluator.

 

[pillowpants]

Cashman and Epstein at William Paterson

Apparently, it is Cashman's strong recommendation that the Yanks keep their kids.

 

[wilked]

From Olney:

Heard from a couple of sources that Boston has taken Jon Lester off the table, for good, in the Santana trade discussions.

 

[EZD222]

Twins are putting themselves in a corner now. They should have bit the bullet during the winter meetings.

 

[Gopher State]

CHARLEY WALTERS: Minnesota Twins could trade Santana within 10 days

Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 01/26/2008 10:41:51 PM CST

The Twins, New York Mets, Boston Red Sox or New York Yankees are not holding up the proposed trade of Twins pitcher Johan Santana. It's Santana, who is seeking $150 million over six years.

Santana has the right, by way of a no-trade contract clause, to veto any deal with a team that won't pay him what he wants.

A trade is expected to occur within 10 days, though.

The Mets, who dearly want Santana, have told at least one free-agent pitcher hoping to sign with them to wait until they find out whether they can acquire the two-time Cy Young Award winner. The Twins, as they should, continue to insist that slugging young outfielder Fernando Martinez, the Mets' top minor league prospect, be included in any deal.

"Martinez will show how badly the Mets want Santana," one insider said.

The Red Sox haven't moved much from their initial offer for Santana. But one minor leaguer who some would consider a throw-in by Boston - left-handed hitting outfielder Ryan Kalish - could become an important part of a deal. Francisco Liriano, remember, was considered a throw-in when the San Francisco Giants included him in the Twins' trade for Joe Nathan.

The Yankees continue to vacillate on whether to include pitcher Phil Hughes in a deal for Santana. One day he's in, another day he's out. The Twins do not consider the Yankees out of contention.

The Twins tried to get the Los Angeles Angels interested in Santana,

but the Angels appear more interested in acquiring hitting than pitching.

Twins CEO Jim Pohlad said the $104 million investment in contract extensions for Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer doesn't represent a change in spending philosophy for the club. The team will continue to spend slightly more than 50 percent of overall revenue on payroll and remain within budget.

"That revenue will increase when we get the new ballpark," Pohlad said. "It's hard to imagine a scenario where there would be less revenue."

Santana? "We have to do what we feel is realistic for the player and for us," Pohlad said. "It's about what each party wants, and it's different in some cases. There's loyalty and wanting to stay in Minnesota, and it varies from player to player."

It's clear that Santana, acquired in a Rule 5 minor league draft trade deal in 1999, has become a baseball mercenary who doesn't care where he pitches as long he's paid the optimal amount.

 

[Gopher State]

Twins may soon ask, 'Is this the final offer?'

By LA VELLE E. NEAL III, Star Tribune

Last update: January 27, 2008 - 7:23 PM

Indications from Twins officials are that this is a critical week in the Johan Santana sweepstakes.

The club has not set any hard deadlines yet but may soon tell the teams most interested in Santana -- the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox -- that it's time for them to step up with their best offers for the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

Twins officials over the weekend maintained that all three teams remain interested in Santana. They also disputed reports that lefthander Jon Lester has been taken out of any Red Sox package. Boston still is believed to have different packages under consideration, one led by Lester and the other led by outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury.

The Twins would like for the Mets to add outfield prospect Fernando Martinez to a package that includes outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Delios Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber. The Mets, who need Santana the most, have been reluctant to add Martinez to the deal, and other possible add-ons -- such as pitcher Aaron Heilman and outfielder Ryan Church -- have been mentioned.

The Twins would like a package from the Yankees that includes righthander Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera -- an option that some Twins players quietly prefer. Cabrera, with 16 assists last season, would join Michael Cuddyer (19) and Delmon Young (16) to give the Twins one of the best defensive outfields in baseball.

While the Twins would like to settle the Santana situation before spring training begins, they continue to indicate that they will bring him to camp next month if they don't receive an acceptable offer. If that happens, the Twins will either sign a free agent, such as Kenny Lofton or Corey Patterson, or look at prospects Jason Pridie and Denard Span. Span has told the club that he wants a shot at the job.

It remains highly unlikely that the Twins will sign Santana to an extension.

Becoming acclimated

The new Twins players are making a smooth transition into doing things the Twins way.

Former Astros Mike Lamb and Adam Everett told officials how surprised they were that former Twins greats Harmon Killebrew and Tony Oliva approached them to introduce themselves instead of the other way around.

Craig Monroe mentioned to Rod Carew that he was told by good friend Torii Hunter to be at Carew's hip throughout Carew's two-week stint at spring training. Carew said Saturday that he's looking forward to working with both Monroe and Young but wants to make sure he doesn't interfere with anything hitting coach Joe Vavra has in store for them.

Young last week filmed a commercial with Killebrew, Oliva, Carew and Kent Hrbek, who play the role of four wise men offering advice to a young hitter. On Sunday, Young said he was impressed with how everyone has welcomed him.

Etc.

• Lefthander Francisco Liriano, who was excused early Saturday when he became ill, couldn't even make it out of his bed Sunday.

• Pitching prospect David Shinskie passed a kidney stone on Saturday and was still recovering Sunday.

• Justin Morneau, who on Friday agreed to a six-year, $80 million contract, said his goal is to renovate one Little League field a year. He'll head to Vancouver, British Columbia, next week, where a field in his nearby hometown of New Westminster will being renamed in his honor.

• The Twins announced that 30,483 people attended TwinsFest, the third-highest total in the history of the event. A record 35,835 attended last year.

 

[Alias]

He will go to the Mets at this point if he will be traded at all. I wonder what the best legit offers were made by Boston and NYY and if the Twins are kicking themselves now for not jumping at them.

 

[Alias]

Hard to tell what is fact or fiction these days...

Publicly, the Sox are masking their intentions, while privately expressing conflicted emotions about not only parting with top prospects but having to pay Santana what likely will be the largest contract ever awarded a pitcher.

No Sox officials would comment on the record yesterday, but one club official confirmed that contact with the Twins is ongoing and that, contrary to one published report, lefthander Jon Lester remains a possible trading chip. There have been recent indications that the Sox would prefer the Twins accept a package built around outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury, although logic would suggest that Minnesota, already having lost one starting pitcher, Carlos Silva, to free agency, and having traded another, Matt Garza, would want a big-league-ready pitcher in return.

There was a strong sense around the majors that the Twins want to complete a trade before spring training."The Twins are sending out signals they are getting down the tracks with [a suitor]," one AL official said.Another AL official cited a higher sense of urgency from the Minnesota camp over the past few days.The Red Sox essentially have sat on their offers since the early December winter meetings. There were reports in recent days that they had pulled Jon Lester from an offer, but officials involved in these discussions deny that. Executives surveyed feel an offer of Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson is superior to what the Mets can assemble, especially because even yesterday Met officials were saying they were still refusing to include outfield prospects Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez in the same deal.

 

[Hedgehog]

If Mets land Santana without giving up Martinez and Gomez it would be a coup. They are playing dangerous poker though - they need him more than the Yanks or Sox do - I would have sent both to them months ago and wrapped this up (too many busted prospects in the past for the Mets - they are built to win now).

In the end I think the sox and Yanks stand pat and are happy that Santana doesn't go to the other - however - mini Stein may pitch a fit if Santana goes to the Mets and demand Hughes back on the table - its all ego with him.

 

[KiddLattimer]

He will go to the Mets at this point if he will be traded at all. I wonder what the best legit offers were made by Boston and NYY and if the Twins are kicking themselves now for not jumping at them.

One way or another I hope this drama comes to an end soon. I mortgaged my future for Santana and Teixeira in an AL only dynasty league last year. If he goes to the Mets my team is sunk.

 

[Alias]

The Red Sox have talked in the past about deals built around either pitcher Jon Lester or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Two sources involved in the discussions say the Red Sox have indicated they won't trade Lester, and another highly placed source says Lester remains on the table. A fourth says the Red Sox are willing to deal Lester only in a package with little window dressing -- in other words, Lester and Coco Crisp and little else.

The Yankees appear to be not presently engaged whatsoever in the Santana talks.

 

[EZD222]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

 

[Koya]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

Interesting. Something's bubbling and about to burst.

 

[jestertj]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

 

[Koya]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

 

[Sammy3469]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Tell you the truth, that's about as good as deal as I would have given him. Once you get to years 34 and 5, I'm not exactly sure what you should be expecting from him. I can easily see him pulling a Pedro when he turns 34. Put it this way I'd want him for the next 5 years, but after that its a real crapshoot which is one of the reasons the Twins aren't getting packages they necessarily like. I know he's basing his demands off of Zito, but the GM that gave Zito that deal is a relative n00b while none of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Mets GMs are.

 

[shadyridr]

I think any team would be absurd to give him more than 5 yrs, 20mil. So in other words I think the Twins just offered him the best deal hes gonna get.

 

[Koya]

I think any team would be absurd to give him more than 5 yrs, 20mil. So in other words I think the Twins just offered him the best deal hes gonna get.

Huh? No question he will get more years and/or (likely AND) more per year from someone.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Tell you the truth, that's about as good as deal as I would have given him. Once you get to years 34 and 5, I'm not exactly sure what you should be expecting from him. I can easily see him pulling a Pedro when he turns 34. Put it this way I'd want him for the next 5 years, but after that its a real crapshoot which is one of the reasons the Twins aren't getting packages they necessarily like. I know he's basing his demands off of Zito, but the GM that gave Zito that deal is a relative n00b while none of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Mets GMs are.

I don't disagree at all...I just hate it when the Twins cry financial woe...

 

[Steelers4Life]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Payroll considerations are a function of revenue generated by the team, not the wealth of the owner. His individual wealth has nothing to do with it.If the Yankees didn't generate $400+ million in revenues, they wouldn't have the payroll they do. It's not because of Steinbrenner's wealth that the Yankees have that money, it's because they have the NY market to draw from and any money invested into the franchise will be returned easily because of it.In a smaller market, the revenue sources are less plentiful. You can be sure that if Steinbrenner had owned a small market team, his team wouldn't have been paying out $200 million in payroll every year. An owner shouldn't have to invest his own money into the team every year, take a huge loss every year, and never reap any rewards just because other teams can generate more revenues.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Payroll considerations are a function of revenue generated by the team, not the wealth of the owner. His individual wealth has nothing to do with it.If the Yankees didn't generate $400+ million in revenues, they wouldn't have the payroll they do. It's not because of Steinbrenner's wealth that the Yankees have that money, it's because they have the NY market to draw from and any money invested into the franchise will be returned easily because of it.In a smaller market, the revenue sources are less plentiful. You can be sure that if Steinbrenner had owned a small market team, his team wouldn't have been paying out $200 million in payroll every year. An owner shouldn't have to invest his own money into the team every year, take a huge loss every year, and never reap any rewards just because other teams can generate more revenues.

When the owner has that much money, he should be willing to go a little bit further to sign players. build payroll, etc...Just my opinion

 

[Frostillicus]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Payroll considerations are a function of revenue generated by the team, not the wealth of the owner. His individual wealth has nothing to do with it.If the Yankees didn't generate $400+ million in revenues, they wouldn't have the payroll they do. It's not because of Steinbrenner's wealth that the Yankees have that money, it's because they have the NY market to draw from and any money invested into the franchise will be returned easily because of it.In a smaller market, the revenue sources are less plentiful. You can be sure that if Steinbrenner had owned a small market team, his team wouldn't have been paying out $200 million in payroll every year. An owner shouldn't have to invest his own money into the team every year, take a huge loss every year, and never reap any rewards just because other teams can generate more revenues.

When the owner has that much money, he should be willing to go a little bit further to sign players. build payroll, etc...Just my opinion

Yes he should, but he's made it clear time and time again that he won't.