The Johan Santana rumor mill (1 Viewer)

[Big Blue Wrecking Crew]

Mike and the Mad Dog said that the Twins offered Santana a last ditch offer of $100 million for 5 years and he turned it down.

He's pretty good, but I'm glad he walked away from that. Too much risk for a team with a payroll of around $70M to have that much tied up in one player. Get as much back as you can and move forward.Let's see who blinks first.

I know that the Twins are not rolling in the dough compared to the big market guys, but 20 Mill a year, for only a 5 year committment, for the best pitcher in baseball? You'd be a fool not to want that even with the Twins payroll constraints.

Carl Pohlad is absurdly wealthy (107th richest person in America, with a net worth of 2.3 billion as of 2006 Forbes)...Those "payroll considerations" shouldn't be considerations for him...

Payroll considerations are a function of revenue generated by the team, not the wealth of the owner. His individual wealth has nothing to do with it.If the Yankees didn't generate $400+ million in revenues, they wouldn't have the payroll they do. It's not because of Steinbrenner's wealth that the Yankees have that money, it's because they have the NY market to draw from and any money invested into the franchise will be returned easily because of it.In a smaller market, the revenue sources are less plentiful. You can be sure that if Steinbrenner had owned a small market team, his team wouldn't have been paying out $200 million in payroll every year. An owner shouldn't have to invest his own money into the team every year, take a huge loss every year, and never reap any rewards just because other teams can generate more revenues.

When the owner has that much money, he should be willing to go a little bit further to sign players. build payroll, etc...Just my opinion

See Ewing Kaufman and the Royals of the 70s/80s. Put his own money in as a way to give back to the community.And, whoever said Sabean (Giants GM) is a noob is off the mark. Fool, maybe. But, not a noob.

 

[Gopher State]

The team remains willing to pay its ace pitcher $20 million per year over four seasons, but he also could be traded at any moment.

By SID HARTMAN, Star Tribune

Last update: January 28, 2008 - 12:08 AM

Rob Antony, the Twins assistant general manager who negotiated the new multiyear contracts for first baseman Justin Morneau and outfielder Michael Cuddyer, said the four-year extension offer the club made some time ago to pitcher Johan Santana still is on the table.

The offer, which includes Santana's current $13.25 million contract for 2008 plus four more years at $20 million per year, is still being discussed with the agents of the two-time Cy Young Award winner, Antony said.

"That's been our number one goal all along. If we could do that, yeah, we'd still like to do that," Antony said of signing Santana.

However, the agents for Santana are looking for a seven-year contract at a minimum of $20 million per year, and the Twins are not going to agree to the extra years.

On the other hand, Antony also said the Twins might be only one phone call away from making a Santana trade with the Mets, Yankees or Red Sox.

"We've discussed names at length with all three clubs," Antony said. "I don't think it's any secret, and basically the first one that steps up or is ready to go, yeah, we could deal at any time. But that's been the possibility for the last couple of months. They have a good idea what it would take to get Johan Santana."

Antony said the fact that Torii Hunter and Carlos Silva departed as free agents helped enable the Twins to structure the contracts of Morneau and Cuddyer. Hunter signed with the Angels, Silva with the Mariners.

"We had some extra money to deal with this year, and that's what ownership talked about," Antony said. "They're not looking to save money this year, they're looking to be as competitive as we can. So we took advantage of that situation to try and sign those guys now."

The Twins have now signed all their players who were arbitration-eligible, without having to go to arbitration, and they should be proud of being able to do that almost every season.

Payroll not set

The Twins had budgeted a payroll of about $70 million last year. Twins Sports Inc. CEO Jim Pohlad said that nothing has been set for this season.

"Really, the arbitration process is now just over, and we still might make some more moves," Pohlad said. "That's up to [GM] Bill Smith. I think it certainly will be an increase in payroll, yes, because we're committed to that ratio."

In the past, Pohlad has said the Twins set their payroll at 50 to 52 percent of revenue.

Regarding Santana, Pohlad said: "Oh yeah, everybody's interested in keeping him."

 

[Neo]

Mets WIN!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...s-santana_N.htm

By Bob ightengale, USA TODAY

The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

The deal would give the Mets the much-needed ace at the front of their rotation. Santana won the American League Cy Young Award in 2004 and 2006 and is 93-44 lifetime. He went 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA for the Twins last season. Santana has struck out at least 235 batters each of the past four seasons.

While the deal drains much of the talent out of the Mets' farm system, they did manage to hold on to top prospect Fernando Martinez, an outfielder. Instead, they headed the package with Gomez, who turned 22 in December and spent 58 games with the Mets last year.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: MLB | Major League Baseball | Mets | Twins | Cy Young Award | Santana

Gomez is what scouts like to call a five-tool player, a combination of offensive ability that includes power and speed as well as an above-average defensive game and a strong arm. He has worked to cut down a strikeout rate that was high during the early part of a minor league career that began in 2004 after the Mets signed him out of the Dominican Republic. He made his major league debut last May and hit .232.

Humber, 25, is the Mets' 2004 first-round pick who has made five major league appearances, including one start, over the past two seasons. He won 11 games at Class AAA last season, his first full year after having Tommy John surgery in 2005.

Santana would give the Mets the best rotation in the NL East after they missed out on the division title by one game thanks to a historic September collapse. He'd likely be joined by Pedro Martinez, John Maine, Oliver Perez and Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez.

The Twins, meanwhile, would see yet another young star they produced leave the organization. Their Gold Glove outfielder, Torii Hunter, left for the Los Angeles Angels this offseason. Gomez would be a candidate to replace him in center field.

—-

 

[Sammy3469]

A Met

 

[shadyridr]

 

[ooofffaaa]

The Mets held onot Fernando Martinez & Pelfrey

Santana pitching in the NL and at Shea !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Santana

Pedro

Maine

O Perez

El Duque/Pelfrey

 

[shadyridr]

Dont get me wrong, Im glad he went to the Mets but the package the Twins got for him is laughable.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

What a fleecing by Minaya! Smith should be ridiculed for turning down the Boston & NYY offers before Christmas.

 

[shadyridr]

I wonder if Cashman couldve offered some kind of Kennedy, Horne, Cabrera, Jackson package. IMO that trumps what the Mets sent.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

They not only got him, they STOLE HIM.

 

[shadyridr]

From the Michael Kay show:

Buster Olney:At 3, Sox and Yankees were out of it. Mets had the best offer on the tableBob Nightengale reported that the deal was finished, but it's all contingent on the Mets working out an extension. Santana is starting by asking for 6 yrs/150 mil. Mets might have to do a 6 yr/22-23 mil extensionKay: Why did the Yankees drop out? Olney: There was no sentiment other than by Hank SteinbrennerWhen the Hughes offer was taken off the table after the Winter Meetings, the Yankees NEVER put another offer on the table. All that happened - the Twins would call to ask the Yankees if they were interestedThe Yankee people felt it was ludicrous to take a double hit - prospects AND the huge contractSantana gave the Twins a deadline - today - to resolve this.Executives are blown away at how well the Mets did in this trade. There are real doubts about Gomez as a hitter, and about Humber as a starter.None of the Mets players match up with the Yankees and Sox players.

 

[Sammy3469]

From the Michael Kay show:

Buster Olney:

At 3, Sox and Yankees were out of it. Mets had the best offer on the table

Bob Nightengale reported that the deal was finished, but it's all contingent on the Mets working out an extension. Santana is starting by asking for 6 yrs/150 mil. Mets might have to do a 6 yr/22-23 mil extension

Kay: Why did the Yankees drop out?

Olney: There was no sentiment other than by Hank Steinbrenner

When the Hughes offer was taken off the table after the Winter Meetings, the Yankees NEVER put another offer on the table. All that happened - the Twins would call to ask the Yankees if they were interested

The Yankee people felt it was ludicrous to take a double hit - prospects AND the huge contract

Santana gave the Twins a deadline - today - to resolve this.

Executives are blown away at how well the Mets did in this trade. There are real doubts about Gomez as a hitter, and about Humber as a starter.

None of the Mets players match up with the Yankees and Sox players.

Pretty much my thinking as well, which leads me to believe that neither of the Sox or Yankees offers were real.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Twins = pw3nd

 

[Finless]

Twins = pw3nd

I think they outsmarted themselves here.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Twins = pw3nd

Yes and no. It was apparent that Santana wasn't going to accept any offer that didn't cripple the Twins and since he only had one more year on his contract it's better to get something than nothing.They aren't going to compete with Cleveland and Detroit this year anyway.

 

[Capella]

Said it somewhere else, will say it here -- it's a shame teams like the Rays can't (or won't) pay up, because they have about 15 prospects better than the garbage the Mets gave up here.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

No F-Mart.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Santana showed some disturbing trends in the 2nd half of last year. He was not nearly as dominant as he was the previous two.

Having said that... Minnesota sports is teh suck. We always have to trade away all our star power. Culpepper and Moss (although they both had to go), Torii Hunter, Kevin Garnett....

 

[Autumn Wind]

Santana showed some disturbing trends in the 2nd half of last year. He was not nearly as dominant as he was the previous two.Having said that... Minnesota sports is teh suck. We always have to trade away all our star power. Culpepper and Moss (although they both had to go), Torii Hunter, Kevin Garnett....

On the upside, the Wild uniforms are pretty sweet.

 

[dparker713]

From the Michael Kay show:

Buster Olney:At 3, Sox and Yankees were out of it. Mets had the best offer on the tableBob Nightengale reported that the deal was finished, but it's all contingent on the Mets working out an extension. Santana is starting by asking for 6 yrs/150 mil. Mets might have to do a 6 yr/22-23 mil extensionKay: Why did the Yankees drop out? Olney: There was no sentiment other than by Hank SteinbrennerWhen the Hughes offer was taken off the table after the Winter Meetings, the Yankees NEVER put another offer on the table. All that happened - the Twins would call to ask the Yankees if they were interestedThe Yankee people felt it was ludicrous to take a double hit - prospects AND the huge contractSantana gave the Twins a deadline - today - to resolve this.Executives are blown away at how well the Mets did in this trade. There are real doubts about Gomez as a hitter, and about Humber as a starter.None of the Mets players match up with the Yankees and Sox players.

While Gomez has alot of issues, he probably has a higher ceiling than the other CFs on the table - he just has a lot longer to go to get there than the other guys. And as far as prospects that need significant time in the minors, Guerra is probably as good or better than anyone else offered in that category. On the whole, the Mets package wasnt as good as the others offered at the winter meetings, but the Mets are in the NL.

 

[Hov34]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

 

[wilked]

Twins overplayed their hand on this one...

What is nice, is I think most Sox and Yankee fans are happy with the outcome

 

[Capella]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

Mets haven't won a title since 1986. Since then "small-market" Twins, Marlins, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks and Reds have combined to win 8 titles.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Mets made a good deal IMO

I am happy the Red Sox didn't get him.

I will say it again (and I said it in years past for the Mets), I think this "rivalry" gaming is bad for some teams as the Mets and Yanks play 6 games against each other and that could be the difference between a few wins instead of playing a weaker team. Not a fan of it, but it is what it is.

Hughes better be very good

 

[Greco]

Thank God this mother####er is out of the AL Central.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Hughes better be very good

TINSTAAPP

 

[Capella]

Thank God this mother####er is out of the AL Central.

 

[Bogart]

Congrats to the Mets for standing firm, letting the Yanks/Sox circle jerk die down, and wait for the Twins to flinch. I gotta think there were better packages available out there, but I'm sure the new contract comes into play for most teams as well.

 

[Sea Bass]

I am very content with the outcome, but I am going to miss this thread.

 

[NoCheese]

According to Baseball America, these are the Met's Top 10 prospects. Sure, I would have loved FMart, but we raided 40% of the Mets' top prospects. Only time will tell if it's a "good" deal, but the prospect of paying Santana $25 million/year w/ a limited payroll was too much.

1. Mike Pelfrey, rhp

2. Fernando Martinez, of

3. Carlos Gomez, of

4. Philip Humber, rhp

5. Deolis Guerra, rhp

6. Kevin Mulvey, rhp

7. Jon Niese, lhp

8. Mike Carp, 1b

9. Joe Smith, rhp

10. Alay Soler, rhp

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

According to Baseball America, these are the Met's Top 10 prospects. Sure, I would have loved FMart, but we raided 40% of the Mets' top prospects. Only time will tell if it's a "good" deal, but the prospect of paying Santana $25 million/year w/ a limited payroll was too much.

1. Mike Pelfrey, rhp

2. Fernando Martinez, of

3. Carlos Gomez, of

4. Philip Humber, rhp

5. Deolis Guerra, rhp

6. Kevin Mulvey, rhp

7. Jon Niese, lhp

8. Mike Carp, 1b

9. Joe Smith, rhp

10. Alay Soler, rhp

That's last year's list.Guerra, Gomez, Mulvey, and Humber were 2, 3, 4, and 7 in that order this year.

 

[TitusIII]

6 years for $150 million is still way too much for a pitcher...

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

6 years for $150 million is still way too much for a pitcher...

It'll probably be more like $135 million but I agree. Not my money though.

 

[ooofffaaa]

Having said that... Minnesota sports is teh suck. We always have to trade away all our star power. Culpepper and Moss (although they both had to go), Torii Hunter, Kevin Garnett....

Breaking news . . . the Minnesota Vikings agreed to trade Adrian Peterson to the New England Patriots for a 3rd-round draft pick. Deal expected to be finalized after physicals sometime next week.

 

[igbomb]

Thank God this mother####er is out of the AL Central.

My thoughts exactly. And I'm even happier that he didn't go to the Yanks or Sox. On paper, Tigers and Red Sox are hands down the top two in the AL this year.

 

[TLEF316]

Thank God Boston didn't get him. thats all i cared about.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Good job by the Mets. Great job by the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

[Hov34]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

Mets haven't won a title since 1986. Since then "small-market" Twins, Marlins, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks and Reds have combined to win 8 titles.

1986? Great, this is 2008 and small market teams might make a splash here and there, but they don't have chance to compete with the big boys year in and year out.

 

[pillowpants]

Twins overplayed their hand on this one...What is nice, is I think most Sox and Yankee fans are happy with the outcome

He's not on the enemy, and is now in the other league. Can't believe they took that package over Hughes/Cabrera, though.

 

[whoknew]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

Mets haven't won a title since 1986. Since then "small-market" Twins, Marlins, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks and Reds have combined to win 8 titles.

1986? Great, this is 2008 and small market teams might make a splash here and there, but they don't have chance to compete with the big boys year in and year out.

That's absurd.

 

[Koya]

BTW, did I say woo to the mother####ing HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

#####es.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

WHEW!!

Good deal for the Metsies. Too many injury ?'s for me to get behind dumping the farm for him, but what they gave up, versus what their needs are, its a steal and a half.

However, I'd bet there's a 1 in 4 chance he won't pass that physical.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

As a Santana dynasty owner>

As a Tigers fan>

 

[NoCheese]

According to Baseball America, these are the Met's Top 10 prospects. Sure, I would have loved FMart, but we raided 40% of the Mets' top prospects. Only time will tell if it's a "good" deal, but the prospect of paying Santana $25 million/year w/ a limited payroll was too much.

1. Mike Pelfrey, rhp

2. Fernando Martinez, of

3. Carlos Gomez, of

4. Philip Humber, rhp

5. Deolis Guerra, rhp

6. Kevin Mulvey, rhp

7. Jon Niese, lhp

8. Mike Carp, 1b

9. Joe Smith, rhp

10. Alay Soler, rhp

That's last year's list.Guerra, Gomez, Mulvey, and Humber were 2, 3, 4, and 7 in that order this year.

Oops, you're right. That's actually more impressive, then, to get 3 of the 4 best prospects in the Mets system, plus the #7 prospect. Santana is worth it, but given the fact that he badly wanted out of MN, and his agent was applying the pressure, I think the Twins did OK. 2 of the 4 prospects have all star potential and the other 2 could very well be decent #2/3 starters.

 

[ooofffaaa]

WHEW!!

Good deal for the Metsies. Too many injury ?'s for me to get behind dumping the farm for him, but what they gave up, versus what their needs are, its a steal and a half.

However, I'd bet there's a 1 in 4 chance he won't pass that physical.

As a Yankee fan would you feel the same way if the cost of Santana was only . . .Ian Kennedy

Melky Cabrera

And a top prospect

???

"In the Bergen Record, Bob Klapisch writes what he believes to be the definitive story on how the Mets ended up getting Johan Santana from the Twins.

By the way, according to Klapisch, the Mets owe a big-fat thank you to the Yankees for stepping aside at the last minute, as he writes about yesterday…

“The Twins called the Yankees and admitted surrender: Phil Hughes was no longer a prerequisite…Instead, the Twins asked for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a top prospect. Would the Yankees still be interested, Smith wondered? The Yankees considered the idea, but only briefly and not seriously…The Twins had waited too long…The Red Sox, in lock step with the Yankees, had essentially backed out, too…That left the Mets, who after hearing from Smith didn’t allow themselves to be bluffed.”

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

WHEW!!

Good deal for the Metsies. Too many injury ?'s for me to get behind dumping the farm for him, but what they gave up, versus what their needs are, its a steal and a half.

However, I'd bet there's a 1 in 4 chance he won't pass that physical.

As a Yankee fan would you feel the same way if the cost of Santana was only . . .Ian Kennedy

Melky Cabrera

And a top prospect

???

"In the Bergen Record, Bob Klapisch writes what he believes to be the definitive story on how the Mets ended up getting Johan Santana from the Twins.

By the way, according to Klapisch, the Mets owe a big-fat thank you to the Yankees for stepping aside at the last minute, as he writes about yesterday…

“The Twins called the Yankees and admitted surrender: Phil Hughes was no longer a prerequisite…Instead, the Twins asked for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a top prospect. Would the Yankees still be interested, Smith wondered? The Yankees considered the idea, but only briefly and not seriously…The Twins had waited too long…The Red Sox, in lock step with the Yankees, had essentially backed out, too…That left the Mets, who after hearing from Smith didn’t allow themselves to be bluffed.”

In complete honesty, I am very worried about the elbow and if you care to do the mundane, you can search back to October when I've basically said the same thing. A month ago though, I think I might endorse the move when there were CF's still on the market. If I could have had Cameron or Jones for 2 years and Johan, actually, I probably do roll the dice. I would like very much to see how this year plays out and its telling to me that Johan wanted a deal done so badly. Why would he not want to take this brillance to market unless he knew there might be an issue. If Zito got 126 on the open market, and Dice K got a 103 mil commitment sight unseen, what would Johan get?

I think the Mets are in a different place and needed a bolder direction to take after a pretty quiet off-season, and just had more need, so I like this move for them more than the Yanks, with keeping Reyes.

 

[Frostillicus]

But probably nothing that would make their fans forgive them for giving up a pitcher who is 93-44.

I hate this crap. I, and many other knowledgeable fans, WANT them to trade Santana, and want to trade him now - not wait until the trade deadline when there's no choice.

Or wait so long that his arms falls off like the Brewers did with Sheets.

They're going to screw this up. I just know it.

BUMP

 

[guru_007]

Twins were stuck, plain and simple. I think they did fine in the trade they made. The real issue was the money Santana is demanding and that alone cut out 90% of the league. There were a ton of rumors and stories about the offers the Red Sox and Yankees made, but only the GM's know the true offers. Perhaps the Twins could have done a bit better by trading Santana a few months ago....but Santana wanted out, he wanted to get paid, and as time wore on, the Twins were no longer in a position of strength.

Mets traded 4 prospects, at least 2 of which will be major league contributors. Twins were only going to get another half season out of Santana at best.

Mets really like to load up their team on big name players, we'll see if it ever pans out for them. It has to be disappointing to have a team with Pedro Martinez, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Tom Glavine, Billy Wagner, etc...etc... not to be a playoff team, while the Rockies are making it to the WS with no major free agent acquisitions.

Santana at Shea, with a pretty solid defense behind him again, could have a few very good seasons.

 

[Hov34]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

Mets haven't won a title since 1986. Since then "small-market" Twins, Marlins, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks and Reds have combined to win 8 titles.

1986? Great, this is 2008 and small market teams might make a splash here and there, but they don't have chance to compete with the big boys year in and year out.

That's absurd.

Yeah, you're right baseball has no problems and is just as popular as it has always been. One team with a 200 million dollar+ salary and one with 30 million can compete no problems.

 

[RBM]

Why should I pay attention to MLB again?

Mets haven't won a title since 1986. Since then "small-market" Twins, Marlins, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks and Reds have combined to win 8 titles.

1986? Great, this is 2008 and small market teams might make a splash here and there, but they don't have chance to compete with the big boys year in and year out.

Rockies and DBacks NLCS last year. Seems they were able to compete fairly well.

 

[RBM]

BTW, did I say woo to the mother####ing HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.#####es.