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The Jon Baldwin Hype Train (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter EBF
- Start date
Although the Chiefs plan to get Jon Baldwin more involved, coach Romeo Crennel expressed disappointment in the receiver's slow development this season.
"He has not produced as much as we want him to produce or what I anticipated he would produce," said Crennel. "Baldwin is still working to improve and refine his game. He can be a big part of this team, and he will be going down the road." The 2011 first-rounder has just 15 catches for 213 yards and no touchdowns this season. Nov. 9 - 8:15 am et
Source: Beaver County Times
I'll stand by my previous post.
"He has not produced as much as we want him to produce or what I anticipated he would produce," said Crennel. "Baldwin is still working to improve and refine his game. He can be a big part of this team, and he will be going down the road." The 2011 first-rounder has just 15 catches for 213 yards and no touchdowns this season. Nov. 9 - 8:15 am et
Source: Beaver County Times
I'll stand by my previous post.
Max Power
Footballguy
I bought low and am selling lower. KC is bad, and so is he.
Next season it looks like Geno Smith or Barkley will be QB.
Baldwin will be #1 WR and my guess is they will sign a free agent #2. McCluuster's in the slot with Breaston for depth. I imagine they draft a 2nd or 3rd round WR as well. What is everyone's thoughts on Baldwin for 2013 and beyond? Will be become a fantasy WR1/2 someday, a flex type guy or a bust?
Baldwin will be #1 WR and my guess is they will sign a free agent #2. McCluuster's in the slot with Breaston for depth. I imagine they draft a 2nd or 3rd round WR as well. What is everyone's thoughts on Baldwin for 2013 and beyond? Will be become a fantasy WR1/2 someday, a flex type guy or a bust?
EBF
Footballguy
I sold him in a couple leagues earlier this year after watching more games. Wasn't impressed with his route running. He is awkward off the line.
I still have him on two teams though and I'd consider buying if the price is low enough. Maybe something like a 2nd round pick. There's still a lot of potential here. They simply don't use him very well or often right now.
I still have him on two teams though and I'd consider buying if the price is low enough. Maybe something like a 2nd round pick. There's still a lot of potential here. They simply don't use him very well or often right now.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
He's in his 2nd year and the team is a total trainwreck - WAY too early to pass judgement IMO. People who spent a late 1st on him a year and a half ago and sell him lower than that right now should have their dynasty cards revoked.
For me, in a pretty shallow dynasty league, yes I invested a first round pick in him but there are a few good prospects on wavers like Rueben Randle. I would like to see things through on Baldwin bu I view him as my least valuable prospect so he may get dropped in the right situation. You did not answer my original question, what do you see in Baldwin's future? Top 30 ever? Top 40?
Max Power
Footballguy
Totally disagree. If you don't believe in the guy anymore, might as well move along. He is reminding me way too much of the James Hardy and Limas Sweeds of the world. If he wasn't 6'4, people would have jumped off the hype train by now. I'm glad to see some owners still value him, but he is living off one play since coming into the NFL. I'd rather trade him to the guy who thinks he could be the next Calvin when I think he is more likely to be the next Mike Williams'Coeur de Lion said:
EBF
Footballguy
That's a bit harsh. He's in the starting lineup and he's getting playing time. That could never be said for Hardy or Sweed at any point in their careers.
Bear in mind that KC is a mess. Worst team in the league. Their QBs are bad and they don't throw him the ball much. It's not a great situation to judge his ability.
Baldwin was always a highly-regarded prospect. He has some compelling tools. I'd be surprised if he ends up being a complete flop. At worst I would expect something like a Robert Meachem career trajectory. If he polishes his route running and learns to get consistent separation, he could still be a #1 receiver in the NFL. He is a pretty gifted athlete.
Bear in mind that KC is a mess. Worst team in the league. Their QBs are bad and they don't throw him the ball much. It's not a great situation to judge his ability.
Baldwin was always a highly-regarded prospect. He has some compelling tools. I'd be surprised if he ends up being a complete flop. At worst I would expect something like a Robert Meachem career trajectory. If he polishes his route running and learns to get consistent separation, he could still be a #1 receiver in the NFL. He is a pretty gifted athlete.
eric rymer
Footballguy
He's going to get every chance in the world now....
Bowe headed to IR
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/10/dwayne-bowe-heading-to-injured-reserve/
Bowe headed to IR
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/10/dwayne-bowe-heading-to-injured-reserve/
It's him or Rod Streater backing up Bryant for me..... Baldwin may be the guy
Ace zero1
Footballguy
Yeah. I'm gonna be out Bryant also. So Baldwin gonna be a better play/pick up then streater?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I like Baldwin, own Baldwin and I'm looking forward to seeing him in his end of season cameo, but you'd have to be crazy to start him IMO. In addition to the risk that he doesn't produce because the KC QBs are so terrible, there's the risk he doesn't produce because he's not ready for prime time.
16 team dynasty, full idp. Traded Michael Boley and a 2013 4th (which will end up being 4.13 - 4.16 depending on whether I win this week or not) for Baldwin. When your 2nd, 3rd, & 4th wide receivers are Andre Roberts, Davone Bess, and Donald Jones, and your other 5 wide receivers have a combined 100 points for the year, why not take the risk on Baldwin? Hoping I get some payoff in 2013, but more realistically looking at 2014.
cstu
Footballguy
I don't play IDP, how valuable is Michael Boley? Seems very cheap for someone with Baldwin's upside.
Especially with Smith as their QB. Baldwin is a deep/50-50 ball guy. Which is the Smith's weakness.The current status of The Jon Baldwin Hype Train after news of Bowe's five year contract re-signing:
any hope I had.
Kleck
Footballguy
Feel the same way. I took a chance on a deal involving Baldwin a few months back which isn't looking so good now. Oh well...
In one IDP league that I am in, Boley was the 27th highest scoring LB. That is nothing special by any means, but it is startable in this league (where you can start between 3 and 5 of them). Not a high end guy but certainly holds value.Baldwin has good upside, but if you are not a believer this certainly seems like a fair trade.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
The Smith trade is the bad news for me. I don't think it's official yet so I'll keep praying he goes to the Bills
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cstu
Footballguy
Exactly.
EBF
Footballguy
I already sold him in 3 of the 4 leagues where I had him, so I've been off the train for a while. Baldwin has all of the ingredients on paper, but when I watched his games earlier this past season I was disappointed with his route running and ability to separate.
It's definitely premature to stick a fork in him though. Andy Reid made DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin useful even though neither of them is a complete receiver. Baldwin can be dangerous on downfield routes because of his height, speed, and leaping ability. Even with Popgun Smith throwing him the ball, I'd expect him to beat his career bests in yards and receptions by a pretty wide margin next year.
If everyone is giving up on him then maybe I'll start buying again. I still think there's a chance he puts it together.
It's definitely premature to stick a fork in him though. Andy Reid made DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin useful even though neither of them is a complete receiver. Baldwin can be dangerous on downfield routes because of his height, speed, and leaping ability. Even with Popgun Smith throwing him the ball, I'd expect him to beat his career bests in yards and receptions by a pretty wide margin next year.
If everyone is giving up on him then maybe I'll start buying again. I still think there's a chance he puts it together.
Phenix
Footballguy
Yes, because when you have hope for a guy like Baldwin, the best thing you could hope for is the Chiefs to resign the starter ahead of him to big money. That will obviously help his already not very productive career. Its more then talent, its opportunity, Baldwin has none at this point. For the Chiefs to resign Bowe also shows how they feel about Baldwin, not confident enough to let Bowe walk.
cstu
Footballguy
Even those of us who think Baldwin still has some potential don't think he's ready to be the #1 right now. Personally I think it's better for his development to have him be the #2 opposite Bowe (obviously not great for his stats). He'll be a 25 yo free agent in two years so there's a good chance he'll be able to pick his team if he develops.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I don't think anyone was buying Baldwin in 2012 without thinking about Bowe becoming a free agent. With Cassell under center in 2012 and not not knowing who could be under center in 2013, was there really much thought that the #2 in KC was going to have a significant fantasy impact? You may not have had to pay much to get him, but that upside had to be part of your valuation.Whatever optimism the Alex Smith signing created in Baldwin owners had to be completely reversed with the Bowe signing. You've now got the Bermuda triangle of Smith-Bowe-Charles in KC. What surplus targets are we expecting to come out of that? Might as well write Baldwin off as lost at sea.'gianmarco said:
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Good posting. Some would argue that talent creates its opportunity. Of course, the end result is the same, apparently, for Baldwin. Baldwin's talent apparently didn't create an opportunity for KC to send Bowe packing.'Phenix said:
jurb26
Footballguy
Baldwin simply isn't that good of a WR. I agree, the signing of Bowe is a clear shot to Baldwin and his opportunity. It is an even bigger shot to the confidense KC has in his actual ability. If they felt Baldwin was capable of being a WR1 in the NFL, then they would have let Bowe walk. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. Baldwin is a great athlete that doesn't translate his athletic ability to a football field. He is the anti-AJ Green. Green makes everything about being an elite WR look easy. Baldwin makes everything about being an average NFL WR look harder than it should.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Baldwin train derailed before it even left the station.
squistion
Footballguy
With the Avery signing, interesting speculation on Baldwin by Rotoworld:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4724/donnie-avery
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4724/donnie-avery
When Donnie Avery makes you expendable, you know that you are in trouble.
Kleck
Footballguy
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Stock is very low right now for good reason. Odds are getting slim on a good return. That said, a guy with good measurables and decent draft status gets three years from me before being TOTALLY worthless.
1st 2 years:
Roddy White 23-446, 30-506
Vincent Jackson 3-59, 27-453
Crabtree, Austin, several others pretty bad the first couple of season too.
Depending on the depth of the league, Baldwin is the kind of guy I target. Give up a low pick that prob won't make your team or an older guy that isn't likely to start for you, and see what happens over the offseason.
1st 2 years:
Roddy White 23-446, 30-506
Vincent Jackson 3-59, 27-453
Crabtree, Austin, several others pretty bad the first couple of season too.
Depending on the depth of the league, Baldwin is the kind of guy I target. Give up a low pick that prob won't make your team or an older guy that isn't likely to start for you, and see what happens over the offseason.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He would be a great fit for the Saints. Just as a ferinstance.But how do the Chiefs ever get fair trade fair value for a 1st round pick just a couple years out? They can't, so they won't.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I love playing with people who spend a 1st on a WR then dump him after two years in a crappy offense for peanuts. Bowe's presence has zero effect - an Andy Reid offense can certainly sustain two viable fantasy targets. Not saying Baldwin will be great at all, but bailing on rookies after two years is bad process period, and doubly so in this case after they finally get a coach who knows how to build an effective passing game.
Shutout
Footballguy
Agree. Take it a little further: In Reid's offense, what type of role does Baldwin actually fit? I'm thinking the closest thing I can think of is Celek (move the big guy around some, he has these ups and downs type of games...ends up better than he has ever been but probably not more than a sutainable WR3.)
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Inclined to agree here. His stock is low. Deservedly so. But keep in mind he hasn't really had a respectable offensive coach since he got healthy midway through his rookie year. (Haley was fired midseason). Coaching matters, and Baldwin hasn't had very good coaching to date. QBs also matter, and Baldwin has had absolute dregs at the position. Baldwin has played in 26 games so far. His QBs have been Matt Cassel, Brady Quinn, Tyler Palko and Kyle Orton. I'm not super optimistic that Alex Smith with turn around Baldwin's career, but it is a little early to write off Baldwin.'Holy Schneikes said:
Boley was the 114th ranked player in my league based on total points, which is +/- 3 points of Alfred Morris, Jason Witten, and Michael Crabtree. Boley was depth as I already had several other LBs. the other guy had lots of injuries with his LBs and had better WRs, so I think we both won with this trade. He ended up winning the league.
Very much agree with this. I gave up a 4th round pick and an aging but productive LB to a guy who won our league, and because my depth at WR was so bad, I'm going to give him at least a few years. Even if he's only with the Chiefs for one year or less, enough people in the NFL are infatuated with physical talent that he'll get a shot with another team that hopefully is a better match. He doesn't have to be great to be valuable for me, just needs to be better than guys I've already got.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
oof
jurb26
Footballguy
Wow, so Baldwin could go from the #2 last year to the #4 this year. That's pretty bad. Not sure how much validity there is to it though.
