The Lestar Jean thread (1 Viewer)

[jsharlan]

Jean and Martin will probably rotate alot cancelling each other out, but if AJ gets hurt again, Jean is his direct replacement at the position.

 

[Shutout]

As it seems now:

AJ (of course) and Walter are the starters.

Behind AJ is Jean.

They want Martin to be the slot guy.

So, in the absence of Posey coming up to speed or doing anything in camp, they still have nothing solid behind Walter but I think Jean is securing his.

I think Martin will be used on returns and be much like Jones was. I think they are hoping that Posey will eventually be the true walter replacement and Jean to replace AJ if needed.

Posey is an interesting guy to me because we have heard nothing in camp but he has been listed as a very good route runner, comes from a school where WRs generally are pretty good at that aspect, and he has missed so much time, I liken him to Josh Gordon in that regard (has the physical attributes, is thought of having talent, just hasn't really played in a LONG time).

I think Martin may be a guy that could have really good value (especially compared to where you may have drafted him/will draft him) if they have injuries at TE again but as long as everyone is healthy, the options are clearly Foster and AJ, then a drop to Daniels, then everyone else. And as much as they run, I think you can argue that if they are controlling a game, Ben Tate becomes more viable than the rest of the bunch at that point. To me, I think we could see guys like Jean, Martin, Walter, etc have the types of games we have always seen from Walter and Jacoby; here and there on any give week they kind of find a big play or get into a groove in a particular game, but, overall, not enough consistent work behind the big 3.

 

[Eminence]

Isn't Houston primarily a running team now? Can't imagine there'd be much left for receptions after Andre Johnson and Arian Foster. What is the potential value here?

 

[Sea Duck]

This guy is too talented to keep him off the field. Walter may be the starter for now, but I think Jean will take his spot by mid-season.

 

[coolnerd]

Isn't Houston primarily a running team now? Can't imagine there'd be much left for receptions after Andre Johnson and Arian Foster. What is the potential value here?

Under Kubiak, walter and jacoby jones were bascially 2a/2b. While each of them had games that were really good, in the 4 or 5 years together neither really were better than a WR3/4 at best in more standard sized leagues. I personally would be suprised if the Texans got more than 55-60 catches out a player not named Andre, daniels, or foster.

 

[Stewy]

Under Kubiak, walter and jacoby jones were bascially 2a/2b. While each of them had games that were really good, in the 4 or 5 years together neither really were better than a WR3/4 at best in more standard sized leagues. I personally would be suprised if the Texans got more than 55-60 catches out a player not named Andre, daniels, or foster.

I think the potential value with these guys lies more in the future than the now. As Andre ages his injury concerns will only become greater, this is likely Walter's last season with the team, and who knows what will happen with Schaub beyond this year.The Texans passing game could be a different animal next year, and I think, at least for dynasty purposes, parsing that out now could pay huge dividends.

 

[dhockster]

Isn't Houston primarily a running team now? Can't imagine there'd be much left for receptions after Andre Johnson and Arian Foster. What is the potential value here?

Under Kubiak, walter and jacoby jones were bascially 2a/2b. While each of them had games that were really good, in the 4 or 5 years together neither really were better than a WR3/4 at best in more standard sized leagues. I personally would be suprised if the Texans got more than 55-60 catches out a player not named Andre, daniels, or foster.

I think the amount of balls Walter and Jones have gotten under Kubiak is more a function of what type of receivers they are rather than Kubiak's system. If Jean turns out to be a highly productive number 2, then I think he will get more balls his way than has been thrown previously to that position. It was just one game, but he definitely had the look of someone who can be very productive in this league on Saturday. I don't think he would be worth drafting in a re-draft league, but he definitely deserves a look in a dynasty league.

 

[dhockster]

Under Kubiak, walter and jacoby jones were bascially 2a/2b. While each of them had games that were really good, in the 4 or 5 years together neither really were better than a WR3/4 at best in more standard sized leagues. I personally would be suprised if the Texans got more than 55-60 catches out a player not named Andre, daniels, or foster.

I think the potential value with these guys lies more in the future than the now. As Andre ages his injury concerns will only become greater, this is likely Walter's last season with the team, and who knows what will happen with Schaub beyond this year.The Texans passing game could be a different animal next year, and I think, at least for dynasty purposes, parsing that out now could pay huge dividends.

 

[coolnerd]

Under Kubiak, walter and jacoby jones were bascially 2a/2b. While each of them had games that were really good, in the 4 or 5 years together neither really were better than a WR3/4 at best in more standard sized leagues. I personally would be suprised if the Texans got more than 55-60 catches out a player not named Andre, daniels, or foster.

I think the potential value with these guys lies more in the future than the now. As Andre ages his injury concerns will only become greater, this is likely Walter's last season with the team, and who knows what will happen with Schaub beyond this year.The Texans passing game could be a different animal next year, and I think, at least for dynasty purposes, parsing that out now could pay huge dividends.

I did not read the question as dynasty related, but redraft related so that colored my response greatly. Still, i think people forget how excited lots of people (Texans fans and not) were over Jacoby after his initial pre-season and even the first year or two in his career. I am optimistic that Jean/Maritn/Posey are more than that because yes the Texans passing game needs to look different a couple of years from now, but the NFL and Ff are littered with dudes who looked good in preeason and never had more than average impact at best. As texans fan, i am hoping that jean turns into year-in, year-out 75 plus catch guy, but at the moment people speaking way too confidently about his being more than JAG.

 

[squistion]

Looks like this is coming down to the wire. In Saturday's action, Jean only had one target, but made the most of it, prying the ball away from two defenders in a leaping 19 yard catch.

Meanwhile, Martin may still get the nod as the slot receiver and had a 10 yard TD pass from Schaub. However, he also had two lost fumbles, which did not win him any points with Kubiak.

Some recent observations on Martin and Jean:

From Lance Zierlan's Z Report:

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2012/08/thoughts-on-texansniners-wide-receivers-impress-but-concerns-reared-their-ugly-heads/

* WR Keshawn Martin is so much quicker off the line of scrimmage and out of his breaks than Jacoby Jones that it’s laughable. Martin gives the Texans a terrific weapon from the slot who is going to be much too quick all safeties and many nickel CBs. I also like the fact that Martin can play outside which gives the Texans more freedom to attack defenses by utilizing their formations to best suit the matchups they want to create.

* Lestar Jean looks just as good this year as he did last. Jean doesn’t have the greatest speed, but he finds ways to get open and that matters when speed is not your friend. One of the things that I noticed against San Francisco is that Jean’s usage of those relatively choppy steps in his routes allows him to get out of his cuts quicker. I still think Martin will go more of the 3-WR looks because of his ability to create matchup problems, but Jean should be pushing for more snaps if Gary Kubiak is being fair about his #2 WR slot. We all know that Kevin Walter is going to get the most snaps, but Jean should get some of those snaps this year.

And Damand Talbot at NFL Draft Zone is high on Jean's long term prospects (although he mistakenly refers to him as a rookie):http://nfldraftzone.com/uncategorized/lestar-jean-has-been-exciting-in-houston-this-preseason/

LeStar Jean has been exciting in Houston this preseason

Both Devier Posey and Keshawn Martin were drafted to unseat the former UDFA out of Florida Atlantic. Jean is not the only rookie performing from the FAU Owls this year. As we already know about Big Alfred Morris the running back who is about to take over for the Washington Redskins. Lestar Jean has been impressive this preseason, and I expect a lot of catches from him this year.

I am calling it now, get ready to see this kid early and often for the Houston Texans. I can see him taking the second wide receiver spot in Houston and making an immediate impact, so don’t be surprised to see him drafted in fantasy drafts this week.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Looks like this is coming down to the wire. In Saturday's action, Jean only had one target, but made the most of it, prying the ball away from two defenders in a leaping 19 yard catch.

Meanwhile, Martin may still get the nod as the slot receiver and had a 10 yard TD pass from Schaub. However, he also had two lost fumbles, which did not win him any points with Kubiak.

Some recent observations on Martin and Jean:

From Lance Zierlan's Z Report:

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2012/08/thoughts-on-texansniners-wide-receivers-impress-but-concerns-reared-their-ugly-heads/

* WR Keshawn Martin is so much quicker off the line of scrimmage and out of his breaks than Jacoby Jones that it’s laughable. Martin gives the Texans a terrific weapon from the slot who is going to be much too quick all safeties and many nickel CBs. I also like the fact that Martin can play outside which gives the Texans more freedom to attack defenses by utilizing their formations to best suit the matchups they want to create.

* Lestar Jean looks just as good this year as he did last. Jean doesn’t have the greatest speed, but he finds ways to get open and that matters when speed is not your friend. One of the things that I noticed against San Francisco is that Jean’s usage of those relatively choppy steps in his routes allows him to get out of his cuts quicker. I still think Martin will go more of the 3-WR looks because of his ability to create matchup problems, but Jean should be pushing for more snaps if Gary Kubiak is being fair about his #2 WR slot. We all know that Kevin Walter is going to get the most snaps, but Jean should get some of those snaps this year.

And Damand Talbot at NFL Draft Zone is high on Jean's long term prospects (although he mistakenly refers to him as a rookie):http://nfldraftzone.com/uncategorized/lestar-jean-has-been-exciting-in-houston-this-preseason/

LeStar Jean has been exciting in Houston this preseason

Both Devier Posey and Keshawn Martin were drafted to unseat the former UDFA out of Florida Atlantic. Jean is not the only rookie performing from the FAU Owls this year. As we already know about Big Alfred Morris the running back who is about to take over for the Washington Redskins. Lestar Jean has been impressive this preseason, and I expect a lot of catches from him this year.

I am calling it now, get ready to see this kid early and often for the Houston Texans. I can see him taking the second wide receiver spot in Houston and making an immediate impact, so don’t be surprised to see him drafted in fantasy drafts this week.

I have to wonder if Kevin Walter will lose snaps eventually.

 

[GregR]

I think if AJ and Walter stay healthy, that Keshawn Martin is on the field a lot more than Jean.

The best thing Jean can do right now is to become as good of a blocker as Kevin Walter is so he can take over the #2 job instead of fighting for the #3. If he is a better target than Walter and can block as well, he'll play.

 

[Sarnoff]

 

[squistion]

Well, I was partially right. Kubiak is using a 4 WR rotation with Jean sharing the 3rd WR spot with Martin. Both will probably not have that much fantasy value this season - but either one is probably a worthwhile stash in Dynasty leagues for those who can be patient.

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Lestar_Jean/2414546/texans-head-coach-gary-kubiak-said-hell-be-rotating-four-wide

Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said he'll be rotating four wide

Posted: 12 hrs 51 mins ago. | Source rotowire.com

Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said he'll be rotating four wide receivers during Sunday's season opener against the Dolphins, and that means both Jean and Keshawn Martin will share the third wideout spot, the Texans' official site reports. [...]

 

[GregR]

Jean out for a couple of weeks with a meniscus tear.

 

[cstu]

Jean out for a couple of weeks with a meniscus tear.

Glad that's all it was.

 

[cstu]

I think if AJ and Walter stay healthy, that Keshawn Martin is on the field a lot more than Jean.The best thing Jean can do right now is to become as good of a blocker as Kevin Walter is so he can take over the #2 job instead of fighting for the #3. If he is a better target than Walter and can block as well, he'll play.

What's the feeling about Walter next year? He's due $3.5M and the Texans would save $2.5M off the salary cap if they cut him.

 

[GregR]

I think if AJ and Walter stay healthy, that Keshawn Martin is on the field a lot more than Jean.The best thing Jean can do right now is to become as good of a blocker as Kevin Walter is so he can take over the #2 job instead of fighting for the #3. If he is a better target than Walter and can block as well, he'll play.

What's the feeling about Walter next year? He's due $3.5M and the Texans would save $2.5M off the salary cap if they cut him.

Just saw this. Hmm. I'm not sure really. I don't know that they have enough proven at WR2 yet to feel good about releasing him. Plus he's a very good fit as a run blocker. Though it isn't like they haven't cut productive players for cap reasons before.Best guess he's still with the team unless they get a free agent or draft another WR high.

 

[GregR]

Came in here as I figured it was about the most appropriate thread to note that Devier Posey seemed to have replaced Keshawn Martin on offense. Though Martin was returning kicks and punts, so it doesn't seem to be an injury or the like. Posey and Jean were the two getting snaps off the bench that I noticed against the Colts.

If someone has snap count information, would love to see how many offensive snaps the three played.

 

[JoeSteeler]

snap count info http://www.profootballrosters.com/2012/12/16/snap-count-totals/

posey - 35

walter - 38

jean - 12

martin - 1

not sure how accuate this is though

 

[GregR]

I'm thinking Posey may turn out to be a good dynasty stash now. Unfortunately I came to this conclusion about 8 hours too late to grab him. Fantasy Super Bowl done, no waivers until the vet auction now.

 

[Buckna]

I think if AJ and Walter stay healthy, that Keshawn Martin is on the field a lot more than Jean.The best thing Jean can do right now is to become as good of a blocker as Kevin Walter is so he can take over the #2 job instead of fighting for the #3. If he is a better target than Walter and can block as well, he'll play.

What's the feeling about Walter next year? He's due $3.5M and the Texans would save $2.5M off the salary cap if they cut him.

Just saw this. Hmm. I'm not sure really. I don't know that they have enough proven at WR2 yet to feel good about releasing him. Plus he's a very good fit as a run blocker. Though it isn't like they haven't cut productive players for cap reasons before.Best guess he's still with the team unless they get a free agent or draft another WR high.

Walter took a paycut this past March to stay with the team for the 2012 season. They didn't alter the 2013 or 2014 years but I would imagine he'd be willing to do it again. My guess is they left those years alone hoping that one of the rookies or Jean stepped up and took over the reins but unless someone breaks out over the last few games and/or playoffs that's looking unlikely.

 

[cstu]

Posey picks up playing timeRookie receiver DeVier Posey entered Sunday’s game with one catch for 19 yards. On Sunday, he had three catches for 46 yards — including a 36-yarder.Posey was getting more playing time, ahead of No. 2 receiver Kevin Walter. Walter had two catches for 11 yards.“We like what we see from Posey in practice, and we’re playing him more,” coach Gary Kubiak said.“What has taken place over the period of the last month is a young player who has really stepped up, so we’re going to give him more opportunities to help us.”

 

[doubletrouble]

I picked him up...

http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/12/18/3778966/gary-kubiak-speaks-after-mondays-texans-practice

(on how important it will be to have young players step up) “I think what’s happening right now is some of our young players on our team are giving us a chance to continue to improve right now. Probably, you’re asking me a little bit about (WR DeVier) Posey and what he’s done. He deserves an opportunity to go out there and play. He’s made plays. He’s been good at practice

 

[cstu]

Torn Achilles for Posey. Very disappointing since he was having a good game.

 

[squistion]

Torn Achilles for Posey. Very disappointing since he was having a good game.

Bad break for the kid. He seemed to have edged Jean in the pecking order and looked to be Walter's eventual replacement. I know that advances in medicine have made it possible to come back from this injury (see Demaryius Thomas) but, even so, I doubt he will be much of a factor in 2013.Meanwhile, I am not sure where this leaves Jean. There is talk that with the Posey injury Houston will bring in a big name free agent this offseason and if so that would kill any fantasy value Jean has. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Meanwhile, I am not sure where this leaves Jean. There is talk that with the Posey injury Houston will bring in a big name free agent this offseason and if so that would kill any fantasy value Jean has. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Houston desperately needs a deep threat, but I question how well he'd be utilized with Schaub. Mike Wallace is the obvious target in FA, but even he has questions (esp with his huge drop in YPC in 2012). Who knows what he'll ask for in free agency (giving him Vincent Jackson money would be foolish IMO) and I don't expect any team to come anywhere close to that figure.Just hard to see Houston ever taking next step with Schaub under center. Above average QB who just can't carry his team at all when it counts. (Everyone bags on Flacco, but I'd put him a tier or two ahead of Schaub)

 

[rct]

From Rotoworld:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2523/kevin-walter

Texans owner Bob McNair reiterated the team's desire to add a No. 2 receiver.

McNair thinks the team will mostly keep building through the draft. "It depends on what's available when our pick comes up. If we had an outstanding wide receiver who was available at that point in time, I don't doubt we'd take him," McNair said. Houston holds the No. 27 pick in the 2013 draft. The top receiver prospects include Keenan Allen, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Tavon Austin, among others. The Texans badly need to upgrade on Kevin Walter. Feb 1 - 12:33 PM

 

[GregR]

Here's some Kubiak speak from the combine. He mentions Jean and Posey in talking about a WR2, doesn't mention Walter or Martin in that part, for whatever anyone wants to try to read out of that.

On finding a second WR:"I think that continues to be right now a big focus for us as an organization. We drafted a few young guys last year. I do have a young guy in Lestar Jean that I think a lot of. DeVier Posey was making big, big progress and now we're dealing with a significant injury that is going to take some time"So I think its important that we continue to strengthen our team in that area. Andre is in year 11 or something like that now so weve got to find some other guys to continue to produce alongside of him.

Then some on Martin later, not sure if it was prompted by a specific question or not:

(On Keyshawn Martin)"I'm real excited for him to come back. There's another level for this young man to reach. He gained a lot of confidence. He probably had the best training camp of any young player that we had. Was contributing early in the season. I think the season got a little long on him, the rookie wall whatever they want to say. I think he'll come back and be an even better contributor for our football team and has a chance to be an excellent returner.He's small from a stature standpoint. But when he learns to play through the bumps and the holds of this league, which he can do a better job of he'll be more productive.''

 

[az_prof]

I sort of expect them to go after someone in FA or the draft.

 

[coolnerd]

I sort of expect them to go after someone in FA or the draft.

they should do both. I expect the FA name to be , but the drafted WR to be in the 1st three rounds and probably one or two. the owner has mentioned getting a WR2 multiple times. jean and Martin have potential, but they need to prove that they are WR2 worthy.

 

[jmo87usc]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Texans released WR Kevin Walter, per league source.

Maybe Lestar Jean's value gets a little bump here?

 

[cstu]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefterTexans released WR Kevin Walter, per league source.Maybe Lestar Jean's value gets a little bump here?

Possible, but I'm guessing they plan to draft a WR in the 1st.

 

[TheFly06]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefterTexans released WR Kevin Walter, per league source.Maybe Lestar Jean's value gets a little bump here?

Jean's value does go up a bit, but still not fantasy relevant. He showed some flash last year on a few big plays, but with Matt Schaubs struggles down the stretch, and his new tendency to focus ONLY on Andre Johnson, I wouldn't get too excited yet. Jean IS the default #2 WR on the team tho, as I write this. Walter is gone, Posey is in doubt after that Achillies injury suffered in the texans final game, and Keyshawn Martin still seems raw and might be a gadget play/slot guy at best.

 

[squistion]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Texans released WR Kevin Walter, per league source.

Maybe Lestar Jean's value gets a little bump here?

Jean's value does go up a bit, but still not fantasy relevant. He showed some flash last year on a few big plays, but with Matt Schaubs struggles down the stretch, and his new tendency to focus ONLY on Andre Johnson, I wouldn't get too excited yet. Jean IS the default #2 WR on the team tho, as I write this. Walter is gone, Posey is in doubt after that Achillies injury suffered in the texans final game, and Keyshawn Martin still seems raw and might be a gadget play/slot guy at best.

Yeah, but that could change in a couple hours (although I haven't heard any talk of interest in the free agents out there).