I can't imagine continuing to play fantasy football if I thought the product was that terrible. I just find that interesting and thought you might have more there.
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The NFL is Horrible This Year (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
I can't imagine continuing to play fantasy football if I thought the product was that terrible. I just find that interesting and thought you might have more there.
-OZ-
Footballguy
When did I say I dislike the game that much? There are improvements to be made.
If it wasn’t for FF I wouldn’t be as interested in the league and likely wouldn’t spend time in a shark pool. But I’d still pay attention and watch occasionally, would definitely become a more casual fan.
Ive been playing fantasy football for 25 years. The product hasn't always been this terrible
TomServo
Footballguy
I only watch 5 or so NFL games a year on TV because the amount of advertising and penalty flags are intolerable. We stopped going to NFL games years ago because the stoppages in person are nearly as bad. I've been playing fantasy football in the same league with friends for ~20 years. That is the primary reason I am still involved in the NFL-circle.
Full disclosure, as a 50+ year old Jets fan, I refuse to give the franchise money while they continue to not care about quality, as evidenced by the ownership's actions. I do check the box scores, and am glad/surprised when they win.
We do watch and go to college football games, which is a much cheaper and better experience. I say better, in that the games invoke more emotion in the fanbase and there are less stoppages (imo).
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I prefer the NFL because so many of the games are close. I can't stand seeing one blowout after another in college as big time u beats up on the little sisters of the poor. Only the sheer amount of games there provide good close games to watch.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
The draw for me is probably the Shark Pool and fantasy football. I'm an old man now but I've been here since what would have to be the earliest days. The game itself, for me anyway, is just like @jobarules described it for the most part. I did enjoy the Thursday night game a few weeks ago between Flacco and Rodgers, but it seems like there are ten duds compared to every one of those.
If I could kick my fantasy football addiction (I've "retired/unretired" twice for several years) then I probably wouldn't watch much. Giving up on Shark Pool League Uno, though, is going to be a tough ask even though I haven't done well there and nobody knows who Gary is...
So I guess it's your fault I'm still around @Joe Bryant
Scoresman
Footballguy
I can maybe answer this, for me at least. I like the game of football, and obviously fantasy, but I do not like to watch NFL games for the most part. It's how the game is being implemented by the NFL that I dont like. Too many interruptions in play, too many commercials. Games are too long. If they adopted the soccer model of not interrupting play (outside of obvious defense/offense series), I'd be more likely to watch.
Fantasy for me is separated from the actual NFL product. I get the most enjoyment out of the pre-season prep, the data crunching, etc.
The draw for me is probably the Shark Pool and fantasy football. I'm an old man now but I've been here since what would have to be the earliest days. The game itself, for me anyway, is just like @jobarules described it for the most part. I did enjoy the Thursday night game a few weeks ago between Flacco and Rodgers, but it seems like there are ten duds compared to every one of those.
If I could kick my fantasy football addiction (I've "retired/unretired" twice for several years) then I probably wouldn't watch much. Giving up on Shark Pool League Uno, though, is going to be a tough ask even though I haven't done well there and nobody knows who Gary is...
So I guess it's your fault I'm still around @Joe Bryant
Fair enough! I'm glad you're here!
MrJimiT
Footballguy
THIS is a big strike against both NFL and NCAA football. Much of the time, it just seems the flow isn't there. Catering to television and big sponsorship money has a lot to do with that.
Personally, I kind of liked it when fantasy wasn't as big or well known as it seems to be now. Almost feels like it is talked about too much.
(Sounds so much like I'm "Get off my lawn" dude.)
Chaka
Footballguy
The product is as good as it's ever been. Probably better.
Chaka
Footballguy
Just as many per week now as there have always been.
MTskibum
Footballguy
I started watching/following football again around halfway through the 2022 season. From about 2014-2022 I did 4 fantasy leagues per year, but barely payed attention. Some of these were dynasty leagues and other leagues I didnt want to quit. So I just did the bare minimum, show up draft. Look at most added player list each week and follow the crowd.
This year I am watching 1-2 games a week and following along with news again.
I think this is not uncommon. I have a workfriend who is in a fantasy football league with his college friends and we started talking about fantasy football this year before he admitted that he does not watch football at all. A couple weeks ago i told him I traded a 2nd/3rd in a dynasty league for Derrick Henry, and his response was who is that
The product is the same.
The quality of schemes isn't what it used to be when you had Brady, Peyton Manning, Randy Moss.
Additionally, offense schemes have become different. I wouldn't call it evolved. More like devolved.
Now there is the "spread it around" mentality-with both RBs + WRs.
More than ever in 2025 teams are playing down to competition, like what we saw last night from GB vs Phi game.
Teams used to want to scare or created a type of brand from their offense. They used to try and score 35 no matter who the opponent is. Run up the score. Create an identity.
Now more than ever if teams can win 3-0 they will do just that.
Today the NFL product is more suitable for DFS sports betters.
Seasonal long FF leagues are suffering from more random outcomes. Unless you have the following players - J. Taylor, JSN, Gibbs, CMC
The quality of schemes isn't what it used to be when you had Brady, Peyton Manning, Randy Moss.
Additionally, offense schemes have become different. I wouldn't call it evolved. More like devolved.
Now there is the "spread it around" mentality-with both RBs + WRs.
More than ever in 2025 teams are playing down to competition, like what we saw last night from GB vs Phi game.
Teams used to want to scare or created a type of brand from their offense. They used to try and score 35 no matter who the opponent is. Run up the score. Create an identity.
Now more than ever if teams can win 3-0 they will do just that.
Today the NFL product is more suitable for DFS sports betters.
Seasonal long FF leagues are suffering from more random outcomes. Unless you have the following players - J. Taylor, JSN, Gibbs, CMC
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rockaction
Footballguy
It’s because defense has won decisively since 2019. It might have checkmated the rectangle. There’s only so much space. Offense needs precision and timing and between injuries and the CBA they don’t practice.
It’s hurting.
UncleZen
Footballguy
Totally worth the price I pay just so I don't have to sit through hours of commercials on Sundays.
I love Red Zone not so much for avoiding commercials (although that's good) as I just love the action and pace. It's a lot and you do have to dial back as it can be too much. But once a week, I love it.
Thursday night games need to go away. I'm sorry to say it. Yes it's great to have something to watch on TNF.
But we aren't the ones colliding into another human being only to have a 1 week recovery time cut short by 3 days.
Additionally, what isn't often spoken about or taken for granted is that the game of football is very much a mind over body game.
Teams have 4 days to create a game plan. Mentally remember the plan with only 2 days of real practice (Monday is a walkthrough).
This is a disaster for the players impacting the product we are seeing on Thursdays.
But we aren't the ones colliding into another human being only to have a 1 week recovery time cut short by 3 days.
Additionally, what isn't often spoken about or taken for granted is that the game of football is very much a mind over body game.
Teams have 4 days to create a game plan. Mentally remember the plan with only 2 days of real practice (Monday is a walkthrough).
This is a disaster for the players impacting the product we are seeing on Thursdays.
warpig33
Footballguy
I played football for many years...pop warner, middle school, high school, and a couple years of amateur indoor/outdoor after my military service. I had colleges looking at me after high school, but went off to the Marines instead. Football was my passion for a long time.
My favorite era was the 80s - early 2000s. I was always glued to the TV watching the game. When I first started playing FF it probably heightened my enjoyment. I loved getting into the weeds with the stats and looking for unpopular waiver adds, etc...trying to out think my competition.
But I've realized I'm just cursed when it comes to FF. I draft highly regarded players and they never get a chance to play or are always hurt or just flat out bust. And players I would pick up in a trade would also get hurt or just fall off the planet once I acquired them. And the players I trade away tend to suddenly explode. Never fails.
Add in the watered down games. Injecting their woke, social justice preaching...there should only be ONE NATIONAL ANTHEM! If you don't like America...get out! Refs taking advantage of their time on air to get their facetime so they can ask their friends and family: "Did you see me on TV making that call?!" Coaches don't adjust anymore...it's always "our system is our system...we trust in the system". It's just a bad product. Even with all the changes to make it "safer", there are more injuries than ever it seems. Concussions and knee injuries are still rampant. So are the players softer? All these crap new rules basically neutering the defense. I know I'm in the minority, but I actually enjoyed the Eagles/Packers game. I love defensive games...because since my players never score, I don't want my opponents to score either!
The ONLY reason I still do FF is because I am in dynasty leagues and I respect the commissioners I have...been with them for many years. And I don't want to leave them hanging looking for a new owner to take over my crap teams. The only hope I have is that the commish is talking about getting out in a couple years too. I figure I'll ride off into the sunset when he does...and never look back.
My favorite era was the 80s - early 2000s. I was always glued to the TV watching the game. When I first started playing FF it probably heightened my enjoyment. I loved getting into the weeds with the stats and looking for unpopular waiver adds, etc...trying to out think my competition.
But I've realized I'm just cursed when it comes to FF. I draft highly regarded players and they never get a chance to play or are always hurt or just flat out bust. And players I would pick up in a trade would also get hurt or just fall off the planet once I acquired them. And the players I trade away tend to suddenly explode. Never fails.
Add in the watered down games. Injecting their woke, social justice preaching...there should only be ONE NATIONAL ANTHEM! If you don't like America...get out! Refs taking advantage of their time on air to get their facetime so they can ask their friends and family: "Did you see me on TV making that call?!" Coaches don't adjust anymore...it's always "our system is our system...we trust in the system". It's just a bad product. Even with all the changes to make it "safer", there are more injuries than ever it seems. Concussions and knee injuries are still rampant. So are the players softer? All these crap new rules basically neutering the defense. I know I'm in the minority, but I actually enjoyed the Eagles/Packers game. I love defensive games...because since my players never score, I don't want my opponents to score either!
The ONLY reason I still do FF is because I am in dynasty leagues and I respect the commissioners I have...been with them for many years. And I don't want to leave them hanging looking for a new owner to take over my crap teams. The only hope I have is that the commish is talking about getting out in a couple years too. I figure I'll ride off into the sunset when he does...and never look back.
I played football for many years...pop warner, middle school, high school, and a couple years of amateur indoor/outdoor after my military service. I had colleges looking at me after high school, but went off to the Marines instead. Football was my passion for a long time.
My favorite era was the 80s - early 2000s. I was always glued to the TV watching the game. When I first started playing FF it probably heightened my enjoyment. I loved getting into the weeds with the stats and looking for unpopular waiver adds, etc...trying to out think my competition.
But I've realized I'm just cursed when it comes to FF. I draft highly regarded players and they never get a chance to play or are always hurt or just flat out bust. And players I would pick up in a trade would also get hurt or just fall off the planet once I acquired them. And the players I trade away tend to suddenly explode. Never fails.
Add in the watered down games. Injecting their woke, social justice preaching...there should only be ONE NATIONAL ANTHEM! If you don't like America...get out! Refs taking advantage of their time on air to get their facetime so they can ask their friends and family: "Did you see me on TV making that call?!" Coaches don't adjust anymore...it's always "our system is our system...we trust in the system". It's just a bad product. Even with all the changes to make it "safer", there are more injuries than ever it seems. Concussions and knee injuries are still rampant. So are the players softer? All these crap new rules basically neutering the defense. I know I'm in the minority, but I actually enjoyed the Eagles/Packers game. I love defensive games...because since my players never score, I don't want my opponents to score either!
The ONLY reason I still do FF is because I am in dynasty leagues and I respect the commissioners I have...been with them for many years. And I don't want to leave them hanging looking for a new owner to take over my crap teams. The only hope I have is that the commish is talking about getting out in a couple years too. I figure I'll ride off into the sunset when he does...and never look back.
Interesting. Thanks. I don't share your opinion there but clearly plenty here do, Thanks for sharing and helping me understand where you're coming from.
massraider
Footballguy
You know, we are five pages in, and I haven't seen anyone say what's so great about it these days.
I love college football these days, and I can give reasons. Why I think it's better that previous years.
Where's the paragraphs about Whats so Awesome about the NFL?
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't need to type paragraphs about why most of the memories people have about how much better the game was in days gone are filled with overly saturated, soft edged, lens flared pastoral imagery that doesn't reflect the reality of the game, between the lines, then or now.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
For second straight week, ‘Monday Night Football’ not available on YouTube TV
Just circling back to yet another example at the rapid rate at which they are overly monetizing and making watching the games a chore. It's not the product on the field, but I'll be damned if it's not impacting my capability of enjoying that product on the field. And there is no way I'll believe this isn't purposefully coinciding with ESPN launching their own independent streaming service at the absolutely insane price of $30 a month lol. Think we've reached the tipping point where we are now worse off then before "cutting the cord". And soon enough Fox will also be breaking off contracts with providers like YTTV to start THEIR own streaming service, FoxOne.
It's asinine we can't just pay one provider one price and have access to every NFL game for the season.
This lays out the whole process with costs you need to follow to get each game. And it includes discounted rates, new subscriber discounts (which you obviously can't always get if you already sub or have subbed previously), and the hassle of signing up and cancelling memberships in order to get the cheapest price. And even doing all that work, the cheapest price now for every game is $785.86 and requires 6 (SIX) different providers. Insanity. Oh yeah, and most of these providers are now wildly strict with sharing, at times you can't even stream on more than one TV in the same home without paying more. Even logging in only one user at a time, but changing locations (like watching from home and then watching while at work) can be a burden if not impossible.
Just circling back to yet another example at the rapid rate at which they are overly monetizing and making watching the games a chore. It's not the product on the field, but I'll be damned if it's not impacting my capability of enjoying that product on the field. And there is no way I'll believe this isn't purposefully coinciding with ESPN launching their own independent streaming service at the absolutely insane price of $30 a month lol. Think we've reached the tipping point where we are now worse off then before "cutting the cord". And soon enough Fox will also be breaking off contracts with providers like YTTV to start THEIR own streaming service, FoxOne.
It's asinine we can't just pay one provider one price and have access to every NFL game for the season.
This lays out the whole process with costs you need to follow to get each game. And it includes discounted rates, new subscriber discounts (which you obviously can't always get if you already sub or have subbed previously), and the hassle of signing up and cancelling memberships in order to get the cheapest price. And even doing all that work, the cheapest price now for every game is $785.86 and requires 6 (SIX) different providers. Insanity. Oh yeah, and most of these providers are now wildly strict with sharing, at times you can't even stream on more than one TV in the same home without paying more. Even logging in only one user at a time, but changing locations (like watching from home and then watching while at work) can be a burden if not impossible.
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Chaka
Footballguy
We don't need this political ******** in here.
Manster
Footballguy
I’ve already outlined why I prefer the NFL to college.
It’s very simple. NIL and the portal have ruined college football. I spose if you are a fan of one of the handful of rich schools you’re loving it, but the rest of us feel left out of the party. Colleges are literally buying national championships.
The NFL has a hard salary cap. What separates the best and worst teams is a better front office, a few lucky draft picks or free agent signings. I love that Miami was left for dead , and they spanked Buffalo last week. The parity of the league is what keeps fans interested, imo.
Also, the officiating is sooooo much better in the NFL. There may be a rule here and there I prefer in college, but overall, the NFL game is a much better product. Of course, I’m ok seeing a defensive struggle. That’s football. The average American sports fan has a short attention span, and wants a track meet game. I get that. But I’m a baseball fan too. I love a good pitchers duel.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Not picking on you here, but I found the dichotomy of the bolded interesting. I don't like watching baseball for a lot of reasons; but the no salary cap has always been pretty high on the list. Didn't the Dodgers literally just buy two in a row? Their payroll is almost 10X some of the other teams in the league already heading into 2026. I get all the excuses made by fans, like that there's a lot more the Dodgers did that to win outside of just spending money (look at the Mets, I know) and that some owners SHOULD absolutely be spending more than they are. But ultimately, it's all a result of having no salary cap (therefore you can't even try to institute a salary floor to force bad owners to spend on their teams). The salary of Ohtani, Mookie, and Freeman alone probably cost more than a few teams entire payrolls lol. And good on them, they are a huge market and fans have high expectations so they reinvest money back into the team. Not demonizing them at all, if anything other MLB owners should take notes. Just leaves like nearly 1/3rd of the teams feeling irrelevant most seasons. I guess I could say the same about NBA too though....
Just found it interesting the money things turn you off to NCAA, something you seem to like the way it's structured in NFL, but then you also like MLB. I'm sure there are still a lot of MLB fans who don't love the no salary cap thing but also still enjoy the league so not saying you are an outlier either. I've never been a huge college FB watcher anyhow, least not during the season. But I do have to figure they are going to start making some more rules around NIL and the portal and how all that works. Once more kids start sitting out meaningful games, and especially bowl games, it will come to a head.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
The thread was started by someone who believes the NFL is "horrible." The burden of proof is on them, not the other way around.
The fact that the NFL has record-breaking viewership, attendance and growing demographic appeal is proof enough that the product is a good one.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
"Good" is subjective and popularity does not always equal good. Taylor Swift is setting records for viewership, attendance, and revenue. I doubt there are many people out there who consider her the pinnacle of all things music; even her own fans.
Not saying what you're pointing out means nothing, just suggesting it's not really "this ends the conversation" kind of evidence. At least IMO.
* edit - I will agree with the Hitchen's razor/Sagan's standard burden of proof take though.
massraider
Footballguy
Indiana?
College football to me looks wide open. There was never parity before, it was always a handful of power teams.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
No argument from me on "good" vs. "popular." Although that is also a can of worms (e.g. is a defensive struggle without any penalties a "good" product vs. a more popular 44-41 shootout rife w/ DPI calls?)
Woa....woa.....woa.........I wouldn't go that far. Playoffs NBA (vs regular season NFL) yes but not regular season NBA
Manster
Footballguy
I love the game of baseball. I watch a lot of college ball actually. And yes, the dodgers and Yankees are the problem with MLB.
I wish MLB would be more like the NFL. I was a huge jays fan in the WS. Even though they have the 5th highest payroll! They are definitely more a Johnny lunchpail team though.
I also love baseball because you can look like an average accountant and play in the pros. It’s not about brute strength so much. Or being 6’7”
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Manster
Footballguy
I guess it depends on what your idea of parity is. Follow the money. Why is Indiana all the sudden good? Why is Duke good at football now?
Indiana has mark Cuban cutting checks now.
My school got left out, and will be a farm team for the rich schools. So yea, I’m bitter. That kinda **** doesn’t happen in the NFL
warpig33
Footballguy
Don't need it on the field either.pinkstapler
Footballguy
Heard that; and I think I'd lean towards the former like it sounds you would as well.
Feels like sometimes when a company makes decisions to try to expand the appeal to a broader consumer base; they simultaneously alienate/work against the interests of the current consumer base. Least that's how I felt about a lot of the obviously offensive side of the ball slanted rules changes over the past ten years or so. Always seemed the intention was to increase passing numbers, increase scoring, increase the number of big plays a game, etc. Everything that would hit a little harder in a Sports Center segment and now get more interaction on social media.
I think the most blatant example would circle back to music. When the small market/underground band you listen to starts changing their style to get a better record deal, and get some more radio play... They get more fans and more money, but leave a lot of the OG fans uttering that ever-popular phrase; "they sold out". But I get it to an extent in that situation. I guess the rub with the NFL is they are already king of the mountain, no real need to keep trying to "sell out" and expand when you're the 2nd most popular sport on the globe. But I guess a for-profit company will never stop trying to increase profits. How many years until we see a Super Bowl in Europe?
rockaction
Footballguy
I think this is an excellent comment and one I’ve agreed with for a long time. “Cord cutting” was actually always going to be a problem and so was a la carte programming. It was always going to be a disaster for consumers.
To add something maybe a little new; the networks aren’t going away under our current political system (I am not going to comment on that) because the NFL operates under a specific grant from Congress that it is exempt from anti-trust legislation so long as they broadcast local or area games on over-the-FCC-airwaves carriers for “free” to consumers on network television. I won’t extend an analysis but you won’t have to worry about Fox specifically launching an app and taking away the NFC. Maybe a game or two, but if they do, Congress will likely “invite” the NFL to testify or informally brief them. The threat is serious. No anti-trust? No draft.
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Stoneworker
Footballguy
No doubt. As you point out the NFL could be easily accused of diluting product quality (vis-a-vis OG version) to broaden commercial appeal. It will be interesting to see if the Tush Push (which should appeal to puritans) become a sacrificial lamb in that regard
There could also be a debate whether certain other changes are actually "good" or "bad" for the NFL. For example, all the replay/challenge rules have obviously increased accuracy (good), but at what cost? Game flow is bogged down which only allows for more commercials, more babble from commentators, etc (bad)
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I still have cable. Pay $300 a month for it. As part of my plan I get Peacock, HBO Max, Netflix, RedZone and bunch of other pay services. The one extra I have to pay for is Amazon Prime, but I've had Prime well before the NFL streamed on it. I would prefer to pay less, but I don't want 15 different stream services, I like to channel surf.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Xfinity?
Not that I want to pay $3,600 a year for tv/streaming right now lol... but I 100% feel your point about having one dedicated source for everything and it being integrated. Even just looking at my CC bill puts me at risk of stroke for all the individualized auto pay things I have. Would be so nice to have one payment and have my content be delivered through one source.
It's why outside live sports, I've largely moved my entire home to accessing an external media server with programs that auto scrape torrent sites online for the newest stuff and organize and upload it autonomously. I use Plex, and while it's not the best UI I've ever used; it allows to access to everything from every streaming service delivered in one spot with maybe a 2 hour delay max from when it drops on the actual streaming provider. Not sure how, but it also gets movies still in theaters. Just watched Predator: Badlands last night from my couch haha. Thankfully I have a few friends who stayed up on new tech while I gave up trying to keep up shortly after grad school; so they are doing most of the hard work. I just pay like $20 a month for the convenience. The wife still struggles to use it so she has me keeping Netflix and Hulu for her for now, but hopefully not for much longer.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Yeah, Xfinity.
massraider
Footballguy
Burden of proof? We're not in a court of law. Feel free to tap the brakes, counselor.
It was really only an observation. People who think the NFL is horrible (this year) have laid out why. it's noticeable to me that I haven't seen anyone post about why they disagree. What they're stoked about.
TV viewership numbers means less than nothing to me in terms of the quality of football I am seeing. They've been brought up more than once, and if that's the first argument, you're making the case for us. NFL is the best run sports business in the world, and they own a day of the week. Red Zone is the best sports TV product there is, and thank god, cause I dunno how interested people would be if they were forced to watch two 1pm games, and a 4pm game only.
Look, this is relative. Compared to other sports, the NFL is great. I can't speak for others, but I would stipulate that, at the very least. Just been too many games where I don't care about either team involved. And when I watch games, I don't think I am seeing great football.
Pats/Steelers/Colts/Broncos are division leaders. I cannot be the only one that thinks none of these are great teams.
I am not sure this is true if you are talking about the game itself. Marketing this is for sure correct. Gambling/Fantasy is a big reason why it is so popular. However, the game itself isn't really that great. If not for FF I likely wouldn't watch much of it. It's almost like the sport itself is like a deck of cards. It's a means to play a different game. So you need the NFL so you can play the game you really want to play. Without that extra game the NFL would be a lot less popular.
I still have cable for the same reasons you do.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
It's not like that's some new thing. I swear I didn't cheat here. I picked a random year, 2004, to look up NFL standings. The first division google showed was the NFC West, won by the Seattle Seahawks. That was the year they had a rotating QB room of Matt Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer. Darrell Jackson was their leading receiver, and 2nd on the team was Bobby Engram with 499 yards.
It's just nostalgia. I guarantee you if you set the same people back in time to watch some random Sunday football game in 1993 or whenever they would be bored to tears. Yea, Jets vs. Browns isn't all that exciting right now. But it wasn't back then either. And a looooottttttt more games were Jets vs. Browns quality back then.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't disagree.
massraider
Footballguy
In a nutshell, the Colts are the Cinderella team this year. That's very meh, and I'll take the money line on whoever they are favored over in first round of the playoffs. Pretenders.
I think a bunch of teams i expected a lot of this year are meh. 49ers. Packers. Chiefs are not as fun as in previous years. Two years ago the Fins were must watch.
I feel we are way short of interesting teams that become the story of the year.
I get the nostalgia angle, everything better back in the day. I push back against that every week in the FFA, lol.
This season feels less fun than last year, or the year before.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
If the Colts stay healthy and Ward is due back after the bye and Buckner by the playoffs, you might be surprised at how far they advance.
