Buckner is a huge loss. He does so much for them on the interior. It amazes me at how many tackles he gets downfield chasing plays down. Unheard of for a DT.
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The NFL is Horrible This Year (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He should be back by week 14
When I say I don't understand when people say the league is horrible, it's stuff like this.
The skill and athleticism continue to rise. It's amazing.
The skill and athleticism continue to rise. It's amazing.
FairWarning
Footballguy
While the ceiling is high, the overall level of play is lower for a few years now. The Thursday night games are a big reason.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
That's a purely subjective opinion with no objective data to back it up. TNF has been around for 20 years. If anything, coaches have gotten much better at preparing their teams for the short week
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I still think the product is very competitive and good, but their doesn't seem to be a dominant team or teams this year. I believe injuries are a big reason for it. Thursday games hurt because they aren't rested, then issues with fields causing injuries seem to be on the rise, players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever before, concussions and other injuries are more closely monitored.
I said this in the Lions thread. They need to play on grass. I understand it costs more, they make billions, figure it out. Need to expand the rosters to 60ish, add a couple rounds to the draft, and add 20 to 30 million to the cap to cover the money these extra players would make. We don't want to see random guy they signed off the street, get this random guy drafted or signed and have him in the building all a year and in game shape and understanding the playbook.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
You can't prepare for body soreness. Players say all the time, their bodies aren't fully recovered by Thursday after a Sunday game.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Debating whether TNF is good or bad as a product attribute is a totally separate topic. But there is nothing to indicate TNF games have made the NFL horrible this year, relative to other years.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Its been sliding for a few years., not just this year. The 17th game, the constant travel to europe are factors also. It just adds up over time.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
Good list. Also need full-time refs who study the teams and tendencies, and are athletic enough to cover most of the field.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
My son was going on about this during morning drive time, said he felt a lot of air go out after multiple injuries to front line QBs creating a domino effect of poor offense and boring football games that filled up much the middle and late parts of the fantasy schedule with obvious exceptions. I can remember a couple weeks back he wasn't even watching, instead he was streaming shows and movies with his wife and just finding other forms of entertainment. A lot of it has to do with the Dolphins so I feel his pain but I like to watch other teams as well. If I lived and died by Miami, I'd never enjoy a season.
The quality of play does seem to be down, reasons why it feels that way are numerous and would take hours to discuss.
The quality of play does seem to be down, reasons why it feels that way are numerous and would take hours to discuss.
That was my thought too. I'm open to the idea the level of play is low. But I'd like to have some material to support that.
I think the level of of play is as high as it's ever been. Those 3 catches I shared are one reason why.
The world stopped when Odell Beckham made "the catch". Now it seems we see something like that every month. Sunday we saw one three times.
So I'm open to the idea the level of play is down. But I don't understand what you mean by that and would like to see specifically what you mean.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think people have forgotten how ugly football could be back in the 70s, 80s & 90s when defenses could manhandle players.
I concede there are too many penalties called. Then again, a lot of that is a an attempt to prevent the severe injuries that everyone complains about every year.
Commercials suck but, they are unrelated to the product on the field. We would have just as many commercials of we rolled back all rules to the 70s era.
The games are just as competitive and the product on the field is just as good, if not better.
I concede there are too many penalties called. Then again, a lot of that is a an attempt to prevent the severe injuries that everyone complains about every year.
Commercials suck but, they are unrelated to the product on the field. We would have just as many commercials of we rolled back all rules to the 70s era.
The games are just as competitive and the product on the field is just as good, if not better.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I think there is a lot of roster shuffling that is affecting Sunday games leading to Thursday games also. Players that may be able to play Sunday, but the Thursday game is more important tend to sit or play less. Players who get hurt on Sunday have a higher probably of being very limited if they play Thursday.
In: Grass/full time Refs/Goalline Cameras/16 games
Out: Turf/refs with jobs/Gambling commercials/TNF/17 games
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I would concede on having Thursday things in either scenario.
Opening night and Thanksgiving that is the only days.
Every team that plays on Thursday had a bye the week before. Not sure if the logistics would even work for this.
Byes need to change too.
Everyone has week 10ish off. Right before Thanksgiving.
Every team has two byes, they must be at least three games played in between byes.
Condense all the byes into a four or five week period between week seven and 11.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
They wear gloves that make these catches possible. I don’t think that’s athletic and TBH, cheapens it. Just my opinion.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I watch games from the 70s all the time. It’s so much better. Granted, I’m watching with no commercials but the presentation is fun and they are so much more excited and into the game.
I would pay good money to watch a full season from the early 70s - every game of every week than today’s game.
Dizzy
Footballguy
With daily fantasy and prop bets driving the NFL gambling machine, I'm there aren't Friday games added to the mix.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
As far as objective data, the drastic increase in kickoff return rate (i.e. not touchbacks) this year vs. the last two years has hardly made the game more "horrible."
"Through the first four weeks of 2025, teams returned 78.3% of kickoffs during the first four weeks of the season -- the highest rate over that period in 19 years"
"The return rate has more than doubled [from 2024, when it was 33%] and has more than tripled the 2023 rate."
Source: ESPN
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Changed the Colts entire defense. And the 49ers, for that matter.
Yet another dude I was pissed they moved on from.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Any more than stick-em did back in the day?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
For me this isn’t the issue with penalties. It’s that they’re called arbitrarily, and inconsistently. And by that I mean inconsistently from both game to game, and crew to crew.
That, and you have abominations like the Commanders comeback that wasn’t, where the refs made an entire series of terrible calls, with that atrocious intentional grounding the worst of the bunch. The non-call on the hit OOB of Mario-tah, and the bogus false start on McClaren when he clearly set long enough that I’ve never, ever seen that called.
Just destroys the credibility of a league that’s kind of desperate for credibility in a way that’s totally gaslighting us. Like we don’t know the rules or have eyes.
I’ve actually enjoyed the product on the field a lot this year. But stuff like this is killing the sport. And it’s not a difficult fix.
Chaka
Footballguy
Respect.
Who is more "excited and into the game"? The announcers? The players?
You ever watch modern games without commercials?
Chaka
Footballguy
There are. And there will be more.
Chaka
Footballguy
OBJ wore those gloves and people lost their ### #### minds when it happened.
Chaka
Footballguy
There were a lot fewer penalties called per game 20 years ago. I'm not sure the consistency of those calls have changed one one bit.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And yet Lester Hayes is a HOF. But everyone yearns for the good old days, right?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Which isn’t saying they’re not bat at officiating, just that they’ve been bad at officiating for decades.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As for this part, they’ve actually increased some injuries with the way players are instructed to tackle. Can’t go high so they go low. Can’t go too low so they grab a collar. Now it’s a horse collar so they grab the waist. Can’t do that because it’s a hip drop.
The devolution to flag football continues every year.
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
I had it at 2029 but we'll see where thngs go
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Honestly just don’t know how they expect players to defy gravity on some of these “late hits”.
Like the 2-3 steps, sure - that can be officiated out of the game. But if a player is in mid-air, cmon.
Also the “helmet to helmet” when the player being tackled changes his trajectory - that’s not the tackler’s fault, and there’s zero review process for that. For a 15 yard penalty, I’d like to see someone in NY to call down and and say “hey, the dude getting tackled dropped into that hit. Clean hit, no penalty.”
Just because a dude got his bell rung doesn’t automatically mean a player was headhunting. Players will get their bells rung. It’s why they’re paid millions to play a kid’s game.
Again, it goes to the credibility of the game. And on that note, can we all agree that a superstar like Mahomes gets more of those light tap penalties than a scrub like [insert Saints/Titans/Browns QB here]? Because it is abundantly clear to folks who watch multiple games/teams.
I’d argue that FF managers are intimately more aware of these issues than the casual fan, so I get that there isn’t universal outcry from all football fans. But with social media having moved more to video, I think even casual fans are getting hip to some of the idiosyncrasies of NFL officiating.
All relevant to this topic, as officiating is becoming a larger story than the game on the field. Which speaks to the quality of product.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Agreed. But, then that draws into question the argument that games are worse today because of bad/inconsistent officiating.
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
The NFL is in a tough spot. They are trying to protect their brand. If a star player gets hurt then it could make games less competitive and could hurt ticket sales if say someone doesn't want to go to a Bengals game if Burrow is hurt etc. Also lawsuits. Some of it's just PR. "look it, we are trying to make it safe!"
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
To the Olympics, apparently.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That was a trap.
And like leaving a NY pastrami sandwich out in a park with a big box over it and a stick tied to a string, you fell right into it.
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
full on tackling will be back in 2045 when those MIT nerds finally start making good robots.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
The allowed false starts are the worst
I don't feel the NFL is horrible this year as much as it SLOPPY this year!
Well, sloppier than most years. All around. Refs can't seem to get their crap together, or so it seems to me. Individual play is sloppy. Teams are inconsistent and sloppy.
Even with all that, there appears to be some decent competition brewing for playoff berths in a lot of divisions in both conferences. Good times!!
Well, sloppier than most years. All around. Refs can't seem to get their crap together, or so it seems to me. Individual play is sloppy. Teams are inconsistent and sloppy.
Even with all that, there appears to be some decent competition brewing for playoff berths in a lot of divisions in both conferences. Good times!!
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Those crappy Thursday Night Football games like Arizona vs. Cleveland where everyone is trying to gouge their own eyes out used to be the norm.
And the witching hour? It used to take 5 years to get as many crazy endings as we sometimes get on a single Sunday, all on the same broadcast, now.
cdclopper
Footballguy
It's amazing to see the skill of some of these skateboarding guys and motocross racing too going over those big jumps and what-not. It's kind of cool to see them do this stuff but I'm not going out of my way to watch it either. I certainly wouldn't sit thru 2 hours of commercials to watch a 60 minute event.
If you sat down and did the math, how much actual football are we watching? Because it seems to me most of the time we are either watching ads or listening to the announcers talk in between plays.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Watching as much as I always have. And the quality is even better. That's what I'm saying.
The topic here is the game has changed.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
If people think their NFL experience is going downhill, they should try IDP. Opens up a whole new world of appreciation. No game or season is ever horrible.
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rschroeder1
Footballguy
Like all things, "football is worse" is in the eyes of the beholder. I can't say my enjoyment has really decreased this year. A few thoughts:
- Anecdotally, it feels like officiating is more inconsistent this year. This is probably something that is cyclical; it's a difficult job. With that said, there's a couple areas I think are in need of direct improvement:
- Most of the best teams this year seem to have very clear flaws, which feels like a departure from years past.
- Anecdotally, it feels like officiating is more inconsistent this year. This is probably something that is cyclical; it's a difficult job. With that said, there's a couple areas I think are in need of direct improvement:
- Not sure how you fix this, but "clear and convincing video evidence" still seems to change game to game.
- Again anecdotally, it feels like there's an uptick in officials calling a play a fumble after untangling the pile and finding the defense has the ball. This gets frustrating when there's no beanbag thrown on the play. In general, it's difficult for replay to address these plays.
- Do you need clear video evidence of the ball clearing the goal line, or can you "piece it together" by saying, the ball carrier's forearm is clearly over the goal line, so therefore the ball is as well? This seems to change on a game-by-game basis.
- One standard for roughing the passer; no separate rules for Mahomes.
- Most of the best teams this year seem to have very clear flaws, which feels like a departure from years past.
