wilked
Footballguy
Do you think it was hit hard? Be honestAnyway, to be clear then, 6IP 5 hits, 4 runs, 7 Ks is 'tattoing'?And how exactly does one not hit it hard yet get it by the guy down the line?
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The OFFICIAL 2007 Boston Red Sox Thread (2 Viewers)
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bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I'll grant you that semantic point.Put alongside his first outing against the Yankees, it's not very impressive.Do you think it was hit hard? Be honestAnyway, to be clear then, 6IP 5 hits, 4 runs, 7 Ks is 'tattoing'?And how exactly does one not hit it hard yet get it by the guy down the line?
wilked
Footballguy
I think we finally found a point to agree upon. He should get 2 of the 6 games left against the Yankees. If he gets hit around some more then I will grant the overall point. If he holds his ground (which I fully expect) and pitches like he has all season, I think he ends the regular season 4-0 against themI'll grant you that semantic point.Put alongside his first outing against the Yankees, it's not very impressive.Do you think it was hit hard? Be honestAnyway, to be clear then, 6IP 5 hits, 4 runs, 7 Ks is 'tattoing'?
the moops
Footballguy
Wang has an ERA of 4.78 against the Sox.Petite, going back to 2003 has an ERA of 5.02 against the Sox.Clemens, going back to 2002 has an ERA of nearly 7 against the Sox. :(
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I don't see very much reason at all to consider those teams. Mueller, Millar, Renteria, Olerud, Nixon, Damon, Nomar, Cabrera, Reese, Loretta, and Hillebrand are all gone.The Sox lineup this year has an aged Manny, Varitek, and Ortiz, and otherwise very little resemblance to even the 2004 team. I suppose there is a bit of a park factor, what with playing in that novelty stadium half the time and all.Wang has an ERA of 4.78 against the Sox.Petite, going back to 2003 has an ERA of 5.02 against the Sox.
Clemens, going back to 2002 has an ERA of nearly 7 against the Sox.
the moops
Footballguy
You are listing Olerud, Cabrera, Reese and Renteria as reason?The Sox this year have an OPS+ of 109 as a team. In 2004 they had an OPS+ of 111.I don't see very much reason at all to consider those teams. Mueller, Millar, Renteria, Olerud, Nixon, Damon, Nomar, Cabrera, Reese, Loretta, and Hillebrand are all gone.The Sox lineup this year has an aged Manny, Varitek, and Ortiz, and otherwise very little resemblance to even the 2004 team. I suppose there is a bit of a park factor, what with playing in that novelty stadium half the time and all.Wang has an ERA of 4.78 against the Sox.Petite, going back to 2003 has an ERA of 5.02 against the Sox.
Clemens, going back to 2002 has an ERA of nearly 7 against the Sox.
They are similarly a good, not great hitting team.
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I'm saying it's ludicrous to predict anything in the future from a pitcher given his past success against wildly different guys who happen to be wearing the same uniform.
25 starts15 wins10 loses
Nigel
Footballguy
I asked earlier in this thread how rare this is - anyone? What's the record for decisions in the 5 man rotation era?25 starts15 wins10 loses
he's the first to reach that number since Jack McDowell posted decisions in his first 27 starts with the Chicago White Sox in 1993.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
how about 5-2 from here?
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
That offense....whew.... there is noone in that lineup who scares me. Even Papi and ManRam are not as good as in past years. They really should have a move for a bat instead of Gagne.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Sounds like a typical night from themOff the top of my head...8 hits, 5 walks, 1 hit by pitch....and 1 run
wilked
Footballguy
Ya, seriously. I attributed most of it to bad luck before, but I am starting to think there is more to it...Bases loaded, no one out (3rd inning last night). As a hitter there are a few different approaches you can take1. Recognize the pitcher has been wild, and try to induce a walk2. Look to kill a meatball from the pitcher, go for the big inning3. Look to pull the ball, get sac fly, get a run inI feel like the offense takes a bad approach in terms of getting runners in...that they look for options 1 and 2 more then 3. Last night they were also severely handicapped by 2 injuries (Pedroia and Hinske).Sounds like a typical night from themOff the top of my head...8 hits, 5 walks, 1 hit by pitch....and 1 run
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
hey wilked, Dice-K again pitched well, but Pettitte is en fuego.
You see my point now?
You see my point now?
wilked
Footballguy
what was your point? I will concede it close to even between them...By the way, how bad has the Yankees starting pitching been besides Pettitte since the ASB? I know they have struggled, but even I was surprised at the numbers
Code:
Andy Pettitte 9 GS 7 - 1 2.67 ERA 1.30 WHIPRoger Clemens 7 GS 3 - 2 4.23 ERA 1.46 WHIPPhil Hughes 4 GS 1 - 0 5.73 ERA 1.41 WHIPKei Igawa 3 GS 0 - 1 5.74 ERA 1.91 WHIPC. Wang 8 GS 5 - 2 5.74 ERA 1.60 WHIPMike Mussina 8 GS 4 - 3 6.33 ERA 1.74 WHIPbialczabub
Lord of the Flies
doesn't really surprise me, except for Hughes. Got screwed the other night leaving men on first and second with one out, and having Vizcaino let both of them home (one would have been understandable). Wang has had a lot of problems. Mussina looks like he's throwing BP. Clemens isn't much better of a pitcher than those numbers, but I do expect him to improve.
shadyridr
Footballguy
The only one that surprises me out of that group is Wang. he has to turn it around.Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Hinske? He's not exactly Mike Greenwell.Ya, seriously. I attributed most of it to bad luck before, but I am starting to think there is more to it...Bases loaded, no one out (3rd inning last night). As a hitter there are a few different approaches you can take1. Recognize the pitcher has been wild, and try to induce a walk2. Look to kill a meatball from the pitcher, go for the big inning3. Look to pull the ball, get sac fly, get a run inI feel like the offense takes a bad approach in terms of getting runners in...that they look for options 1 and 2 more then 3. Last night they were also severely handicapped by 2 injuries (Pedroia and Hinske).Sounds like a typical night from themOff the top of my head...8 hits, 5 walks, 1 hit by pitch....and 1 run
wilked
Footballguy
It made it very difficult to PH as we were running out of infielders...Hinske? He's not exactly Mike Greenwell.Ya, seriously. I attributed most of it to bad luck before, but I am starting to think there is more to it...Bases loaded, no one out (3rd inning last night). As a hitter there are a few different approaches you can take1. Recognize the pitcher has been wild, and try to induce a walk2. Look to kill a meatball from the pitcher, go for the big inning3. Look to pull the ball, get sac fly, get a run inI feel like the offense takes a bad approach in terms of getting runners in...that they look for options 1 and 2 more then 3. Last night they were also severely handicapped by 2 injuries (Pedroia and Hinske).Sounds like a typical night from themOff the top of my head...8 hits, 5 walks, 1 hit by pitch....and 1 run
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I think that's the $64,000 question. He's been letting hitters get the ball in the air. It'll be interesting to see if he can turn it around, or if all the sabermatricians warnings finally come to fruition.
shadyridr
Footballguy
If it was sabermatrician stuff coming to fruition he'd be giving up more base hit ground balls. The fact that more hitters are hitting it in the air is a sign that something is wrong. Either his delivery or his fingernail.I think that's the $64,000 question. He's been letting hitters get the ball in the air. It'll be interesting to see if he can turn it around, or if all the sabermatricians warnings finally come to fruition.The only one that surprises me out of that group is Wang. he has to turn it around.
Capella
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
where are you hearing this from. bad news on both accounts.
wilked
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
perhaps, you are the ######## to not mention the javy lopez aspect of this move. this team better keep their #### together!wilked said:
wilked
Footballguy
while it may have been incomplete news, it was not bad news
Nigel
Footballguy
Nope, rotation is unaffected. Assuming his start in Portland is not a total disaster, Lester will be back for his next start. They want him to go down and work on his control a bit - too many high pitch counts through 5 or 6. Tavarez pitched well in the spot start last week, so why not give him the start Sunday? The move also gives them another lefty in Lopez, besides Oki, to get Matsui out next week.
Alias
Footballguy
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
Wakefield is our punching bag? Maybe it's just the sheer frustration of watching them slowballs baffle your hitters, but I hate when the Yankees face him.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Out of all the people Im surprised you dont know this. Hes something like 1-9 in his last 10 starts with a 5+ ERA vs the Yanks.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
when is the make up game scheduled?
wilked
Footballguy
btw looks like the Sox are going to go to a 6 man rotation for a bit...smart move when you have a cushion on the division, get the pitchers rested and ready for the playoffs. The rotation should look like the following for the future
8/24-26 @ CWS: Beckett + Schilling, Wake, Tavarez
8/27 off
8/28-30 @ NYY: Daisuke (5), Beckett (4), Schilling (5)
8/31-/92 Bal: Wake (5), Tavarez (5), Lester (5)
9/3-5 Tor: Daisuke (5), Beckett (5), Schilling (5)
9/6-9/9 @ Balt: Wake (5), Lester (4), Daisuke (4), Beckett (4)
9/10-12 TB: Schilling (4), Wake (4), Lester (4)
9/13: off day
9/14-16 NYY: Daisuke (5), Beckett (5), Schilling (5)
8/24-26 @ CWS: Beckett + Schilling, Wake, Tavarez
8/27 off
8/28-30 @ NYY: Daisuke (5), Beckett (4), Schilling (5)
8/31-/92 Bal: Wake (5), Tavarez (5), Lester (5)
9/3-5 Tor: Daisuke (5), Beckett (5), Schilling (5)
9/6-9/9 @ Balt: Wake (5), Lester (4), Daisuke (4), Beckett (4)
9/10-12 TB: Schilling (4), Wake (4), Lester (4)
9/13: off day
9/14-16 NYY: Daisuke (5), Beckett (5), Schilling (5)
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I don't agree. Pitchers should pitch. it does not hurt pitchers to pitch, it hurts pitchers to pitch tired. There is no evidence showing a 5 man rotation yields superior results to a 4 man rotation, so I don't see the benefits of a 6-man rotation, and see the obvious drawback of using your 5 best starters less frequently.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I'm a big Ken Harrelson fan and it was painful listening to him call tonights White Sox vs. Red Sox game. At one point he was actually begging Juan Uribe to get a hit.
How far the White Sox have fallen from a couple of years ago.
How far the White Sox have fallen from a couple of years ago.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
So the White Sox struck out the side!
