The Steelers will beat the Colts (1 Viewer)

[IndyHavoc]

The Colts defense is OVERRATED.  All one has to do is look how the Bengals shredded their defense last week.

I'd agree with you, if you were right. Unfortunately, what you saw vs. Cincy was a defensive scheme that in retrospect probably wasn't the best (but who can say, they won!). Watch the game again, and count how many times they blitzed Palmer. I can remember twice off the top of my head. The idea was to say content and limit Rudi as well as trying to take away the deep ball. That game was a great example of "who blinks first" mentality.Anyway, the Colts D isn't as good as the #'s say, but they're GREATLY improved and can be counted on to make 2 or 3 key stops a game, which is 2 or 3 more than in previous years. And really all that Peyton needs.

How's that shirt today, Irish? Bit wet? No worries, I'm sure 7 pts will win a LOT of of Pitt's remaining games. Expect another beat down by the Bengals if they play anywhere NEAR as good as they did vs. the Colts.

 

[BassNBrew]

I am in the camp that thinks the Steelers and Colts are going to put up the "opposite" game than everyone expects.

I hope you don't need your FF players tonight (and I need Edge big time, so this is not a partisan opinion)

IMO, we are looking at another early season Colts D game. My predictiion is whichever team is closest to 17 when the game ends will be the winner.

Why? B/c Manning this year keys off Edge - not the pass D. If the Steelers shut down Edge (which they are capable of doing), we could see a 13-9 score going into the fourth quarter.

BTW, I pray I am keerocking Edge tonight.

My apologies Mark, you were right about one thing...the team closest to 17 did win.

 

[gildawg]

The Bengals WR's did well against the "short" DB of Indy because they are faster and taller.  If I recall, Ward is the tallest WR for the Steelers at 5'10" or so.  Maybe 6'.  Still, he isn't very tall compared to the Indy DB's.

What does Hines Ward have to do with how Manning will do against the Steelers secondary?

I never said anything about Manning vs. Pitt's DBs I was talking about the Steelers receivers vs. the Colts DBs.

 

[djcolts]

I don't think any "I told you sos" are appropriate. I don't see how anyone could have expected the Colts D to play THAT well last night. I'm surprised by the final score. Good luck to the Steelers the rest of the season.

 

[zoonation]

I think the Steelers will have a hard time making the playoffs...the 7-4 teams can really only afford one more loss, and even that likely won't guarantee anything.

 

[Homey]

Might have been the worst coaching job by Cowher in a long time. I usually defend his ###, but every pivotal choice he made last night was the wrong decision. Surprise onside, punting on 4th down after the false start, QB draw on 4th and 4 . . . . bad choices . . . the INT at the end of the half hurt, but could have been overcome by a solid D stand to start the half, but giving Peyton and Co. the ball on the 40 is dumb.

 

[Homey]

I think the Steelers will have a hard time making the playoffs...the 7-4 teams can really only afford one more loss, and even that likely won't guarantee anything.

Comes down to the Bengals game at Heinz next week.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Might have been the worst coaching job by Cowher in a long time. I usually defend his ###, but every pivotal choice he made last night was the wrong decision. Surprise onside, punting on 4th down after the false start, QB draw on 4th and 4 . . . . bad choices . . . the INT at the end of the half hurt, but could have been overcome by a solid D stand to start the half, but giving Peyton and Co. the ball on the 40 is dumb.

The funny thing is, he looked smug as hell before the game, giving backhanded compliments to Dungy & the Colts (called their schemes "simplistic"). Smirk was long gone once the game started.

 

[NinerK]

9- Roethlisberger is back. He is 18-1 as regular season starter.

Marino or Montana wouldn't have made a difference.

Right. Favre and Young wouldn't have made a difference either....

 

[Steelers4Life]

9- Roethlisberger is back. He is 18-1 as regular season starter.

Marino or Montana wouldn't have made a difference.

Right. Favre and Young wouldn't have made a difference either....

The way the offensive line played last night, I'm not sure they would have. Ben didn't play his best game - he looked rusty after a month layoff - but his offensive line sure as hell didn't make things easier for him.

 

[ren hoek]

9- Roethlisberger is back. He is 18-1 as regular season starter.

Marino or Montana wouldn't have made a difference.

Right. Favre and Young wouldn't have made a difference either....

The way the offensive line played last night, I'm not sure they would have. Ben didn't play his best game - he looked rusty after a month layoff - but his offensive line sure as hell didn't make things easier for him.

Big Ben single-handedly won my game for me this week in one of my leagues. His 2nd INT cost my opponent 3 points- final score: Dan 83, Ben Roethlisberger-owner 81.But yeah, the kid's garbage. He made more than his share of horrendous throws when he had time to pass. The difference between him when the running game is working and when it isn't is like night and day.

edit: but hey, he's 18-2 as a starter!

 

[Tornacl]

If you ask me, yes, the Steelers have a chance in this game, as much as anyone the Colts have faced this year, but I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Colts.

lol. The Steelers with a healthy Big Ben are a very good team and obviously very much in the same league as the Colts overall. This one could easily go either way. Just hope it's a good game as it appears to be on paper.

No doubt that people are taking a few games the Steelers played without Big Ben and somehow making the Steelers out to be an average team. Not everyone is doing that, but some are. Marvin88's comment is ignorance at it's finest on this board.Can Manning light up the Steelers' secondary? Sure he can. But I'd caution anyone who think it's a given to look at what the Steelers did to an almost equally potent passing offense of the Bengals a few weeks back.

If Ben hadn't been hurt, the Steelers would be 9-1 right now with wins over San Diego, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville. As it is, they're 7-3 and are trying to get healthy.

The Colts SHOULD be favored in this game. The injury situation definitely favors the Colts. But I won't be shocked if either team wins.

Who are the ignorant ones? The Steelers haven't proven themselves to be an elite team this year, and last night should prove that to you. To say that "if Big Ben hadn't been hurt the Steelers would be 9-1 is rediculous! If grandma had ball$, she'd have been grandpa! Big Ben is good, but he's not unbeatable (obviously). The Steelers would be one of the best teams in the NFC this year, but they're a Wild Card team in the AFC. Face it!Steelers fans always think that the Steelers are better than they really are. Once again its proven. I always like having one in my fantasy league, because they pick the Steelers way too early.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If you ask me, yes, the Steelers have a chance in this game, as much as anyone the Colts have faced this year, but I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Colts.

lol. The Steelers with a healthy Big Ben are a very good team and obviously very much in the same league as the Colts overall. This one could easily go either way. Just hope it's a good game as it appears to be on paper.

No doubt that people are taking a few games the Steelers played without Big Ben and somehow making the Steelers out to be an average team. Not everyone is doing that, but some are. Marvin88's comment is ignorance at it's finest on this board.Can Manning light up the Steelers' secondary? Sure he can. But I'd caution anyone who think it's a given to look at what the Steelers did to an almost equally potent passing offense of the Bengals a few weeks back.

If Ben hadn't been hurt, the Steelers would be 9-1 right now with wins over San Diego, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville. As it is, they're 7-3 and are trying to get healthy.

The Colts SHOULD be favored in this game. The injury situation definitely favors the Colts. But I won't be shocked if either team wins.

Who are the ignorant ones? The Steelers haven't proven themselves to be an elite team this year, and last night should prove that to you. To say that "if Big Ben hadn't been hurt the Steelers would be 9-1 is rediculous! If grandma had ball$, she'd have been grandpa! Big Ben is good, but he's not unbeatable (obviously). The Steelers would be one of the best teams in the NFC this year, but they're a Wild Card team in the AFC. Face it!Steelers fans always think that the Steelers are better than they really are. Once again its proven. I always like having one in my fantasy league, because they pick the Steelers way too early.

Nothing said there is ignorant at all. The Steelers were beaten by a better team last night. I said the Colts should be favored, and that I wouldn't be suprised if either team won. If they played again next week, I'd feel the same way.No one ever said Ben is unbeatable. I know I didn't. But I DID say the Steelers are a FAR better team with him, and they'd be 9-2 if he hadn't gotten hurt. So? It's true. He didn't look ready last night, and he's definitely missing the deep threat that Plaxico game him last year.

Manning didn't light up the Steelers secondary, but he did hit the 1 big play I didn't expect them to get because Taylor was caught looking in the backfield for some reason. He made a mistake and got burned for it. I thought the Steelers' secondary did a good job against the Colts' passing game after that first series - Manning was 14-24-165-1-1 in 3 quarters after that play. That's what makes the onside kick call so inexplicable to me.

It was the offense that couldn't get the job done. By the 3rd quarter, the defense was getting worn down because the offense couldn't sustain anything. I was suprised by how well the Colts' defense played, and I was equally shocked at how poorly the Steelers' offensive line played.

I said the injury situation favored the Colts, and it did. Roethlisberger was rusty last night, and Smith tried to give it a go but was replaced by Essex - who sucks - in the 2nd quarter. The OL played a terrible game, but Essex needed help on every play. Combine that with the INT that gave the Colts 3 points just before half and the stupid onside kick call, they had too many blunders to overcome if they want to beat a great team.

So, the Steelers manhandled the Bengals in week 7 and they'll try to do it again this week. If they win, the have a good shot at winning the division. If they lose, they'll struggle for a wild card.

 

[Marc Levin]

I am in the camp that thinks the Steelers and Colts are going to put up the "opposite" game than everyone expects.

I hope you don't need your FF players tonight (and I need Edge big time, so this is not a partisan opinion)

IMO, we are looking at another early season Colts D game.  My predictiion is whichever team is closest to 17 when the game ends will be the winner.

Why? B/c Manning this year keys off Edge - not the pass D.  If the Steelers shut down Edge (which they are capable of doing), we could see a 13-9 score going into the fourth quarter.

BTW, I pray I am keerocking Edge tonight.

My apologies Mark, you were right about one thing...the team closest to 17 did win.

and Peyton's numbers - and stalled TD drives turning into FGs not TDs. Three things.

 

[Tornacl]

If you ask me, yes, the Steelers have a chance in this game, as much as anyone the Colts have faced this year, but I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Colts.

lol. The Steelers with a healthy Big Ben are a very good team and obviously very much in the same league as the Colts overall. This one could easily go either way. Just hope it's a good game as it appears to be on paper.

No doubt that people are taking a few games the Steelers played without Big Ben and somehow making the Steelers out to be an average team. Not everyone is doing that, but some are. Marvin88's comment is ignorance at it's finest on this board.Can Manning light up the Steelers' secondary? Sure he can. But I'd caution anyone who think it's a given to look at what the Steelers did to an almost equally potent passing offense of the Bengals a few weeks back.

If Ben hadn't been hurt, the Steelers would be 9-1 right now with wins over San Diego, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville. As it is, they're 7-3 and are trying to get healthy.

The Colts SHOULD be favored in this game. The injury situation definitely favors the Colts. But I won't be shocked if either team wins.

Who are the ignorant ones? The Steelers haven't proven themselves to be an elite team this year, and last night should prove that to you. To say that "if Big Ben hadn't been hurt the Steelers would be 9-1 is rediculous! If grandma had ball$, she'd have been grandpa! Big Ben is good, but he's not unbeatable (obviously). The Steelers would be one of the best teams in the NFC this year, but they're a Wild Card team in the AFC. Face it!Steelers fans always think that the Steelers are better than they really are. Once again its proven. I always like having one in my fantasy league, because they pick the Steelers way too early.

Nothing said there is ignorant at all. The Steelers were beaten by a better team last night. I said the Colts should be favored, and that I wouldn't be suprised if either team won. If they played again next week, I'd feel the same way.No one ever said Ben is unbeatable. I know I didn't. But I DID say the Steelers are a FAR better team with him, and they'd be 9-2 if he hadn't gotten hurt. So? It's true. He didn't look ready last night, and he's definitely missing the deep threat that Plaxico game him last year.

Manning didn't light up the Steelers secondary, but he did hit the 1 big play I didn't expect them to get because Taylor was caught looking in the backfield for some reason. He made a mistake and got burned for it. I thought the Steelers' secondary did a good job against the Colts' passing game after that first series - Manning was 14-24-165-1-1 in 3 quarters after that play. That's what makes the onside kick call so inexplicable to me.

It was the offense that couldn't get the job done. By the 3rd quarter, the defense was getting worn down because the offense couldn't sustain anything. I was suprised by how well the Colts' defense played, and I was equally shocked at how poorly the Steelers' offensive line played.

I said the injury situation favored the Colts, and it did. Roethlisberger was rusty last night, and Smith tried to give it a go but was replaced by Essex - who sucks - in the 2nd quarter. The OL played a terrible game, but Essex needed help on every play. Combine that with the INT that gave the Colts 3 points just before half and the stupid onside kick call, they had too many blunders to overcome if they want to beat a great team.

So, the Steelers manhandled the Bengals in week 7 and they'll try to do it again this week. If they win, the have a good shot at winning the division. If they lose, they'll struggle for a wild card.

Injuries are a part of the game, but just because Big Ben was out, you can't assume that the Steelers would've beaten San Diego, Jacksonville, AND Cincinnati. Definately the Jags, maybe one of the other two. (If the Lions wouldn't have drafted 3 WRs with high first round picks, they'd be a better team. Well they did, and they're not. )When you make unprovable assumptions like that, that's ok, but when someone says they think the Colts are a much better team, then THAT'S ignorant? Just because someone says something that you disagree with or that doesn't favor your team, doesn't necessarily mean ignorance.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If you ask me, yes, the Steelers have a chance in this game, as much as anyone the Colts have faced this year, but I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Colts.

lol. The Steelers with a healthy Big Ben are a very good team and obviously very much in the same league as the Colts overall. This one could easily go either way. Just hope it's a good game as it appears to be on paper.

No doubt that people are taking a few games the Steelers played without Big Ben and somehow making the Steelers out to be an average team. Not everyone is doing that, but some are. Marvin88's comment is ignorance at it's finest on this board.Can Manning light up the Steelers' secondary? Sure he can. But I'd caution anyone who think it's a given to look at what the Steelers did to an almost equally potent passing offense of the Bengals a few weeks back.

If Ben hadn't been hurt, the Steelers would be 9-1 right now with wins over San Diego, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville. As it is, they're 7-3 and are trying to get healthy.

The Colts SHOULD be favored in this game. The injury situation definitely favors the Colts. But I won't be shocked if either team wins.

Who are the ignorant ones? The Steelers haven't proven themselves to be an elite team this year, and last night should prove that to you. To say that "if Big Ben hadn't been hurt the Steelers would be 9-1 is rediculous! If grandma had ball$, she'd have been grandpa! Big Ben is good, but he's not unbeatable (obviously). The Steelers would be one of the best teams in the NFC this year, but they're a Wild Card team in the AFC. Face it!Steelers fans always think that the Steelers are better than they really are. Once again its proven. I always like having one in my fantasy league, because they pick the Steelers way too early.

Nothing said there is ignorant at all. The Steelers were beaten by a better team last night. I said the Colts should be favored, and that I wouldn't be suprised if either team won. If they played again next week, I'd feel the same way.No one ever said Ben is unbeatable. I know I didn't. But I DID say the Steelers are a FAR better team with him, and they'd be 9-2 if he hadn't gotten hurt. So? It's true. He didn't look ready last night, and he's definitely missing the deep threat that Plaxico game him last year.

Manning didn't light up the Steelers secondary, but he did hit the 1 big play I didn't expect them to get because Taylor was caught looking in the backfield for some reason. He made a mistake and got burned for it. I thought the Steelers' secondary did a good job against the Colts' passing game after that first series - Manning was 14-24-165-1-1 in 3 quarters after that play. That's what makes the onside kick call so inexplicable to me.

It was the offense that couldn't get the job done. By the 3rd quarter, the defense was getting worn down because the offense couldn't sustain anything. I was suprised by how well the Colts' defense played, and I was equally shocked at how poorly the Steelers' offensive line played.

I said the injury situation favored the Colts, and it did. Roethlisberger was rusty last night, and Smith tried to give it a go but was replaced by Essex - who sucks - in the 2nd quarter. The OL played a terrible game, but Essex needed help on every play. Combine that with the INT that gave the Colts 3 points just before half and the stupid onside kick call, they had too many blunders to overcome if they want to beat a great team.

So, the Steelers manhandled the Bengals in week 7 and they'll try to do it again this week. If they win, the have a good shot at winning the division. If they lose, they'll struggle for a wild card.

Injuries are a part of the game, but just because Big Ben was out, you can't assume that the Steelers would've beaten San Diego, Jacksonville, AND Cincinnati. Definately the Jags, maybe one of the other two. (If the Lions wouldn't have drafted 3 WRs with high first round picks, they'd be a better team. Well they did, and they're not. )When you make unprovable assumptions like that, that's ok, but when someone says they think the Colts are a much better team, then THAT'S ignorant? Just because someone says something that you disagree with or that doesn't favor your team, doesn't necessarily mean ignorance.

Ummmm, get your facts straight. The Steelers BEAT the Chargers and manhandled the Bengals. They lost to the Jags in overtime when Maddox turned the ball over 5 times and lost to the Ravens in OT without Ben 2 weeks ago. Is my statement that they'd have beaten Jacksonville and Baltimore with Ben unprovable? Sure it is. Anyone who watched those games would agree with it.

Further, go back and read what I posted. I said a comment by Marvin88 was ignorance, NOT YOURS. He said the Steelers are mediocre with or without Roethlisberger, and that's clearly not been the case for the past year and a half. I wasn't referring to your post, because if people feel the Colts are that much better than the Steelers, they're entitled to that opinion.

I stand by everything I said, and I never disrespected the Colts at any point.

 

[BassNBrew]

I am in the camp that thinks the Steelers and Colts are going to put up the "opposite" game than everyone expects.

I hope you don't need your FF players tonight (and I need Edge big time, so this is not a partisan opinion)

IMO, we are looking at another early season Colts D game.  My predictiion is whichever team is closest to 17 when the game ends will be the winner.

Why? B/c Manning this year keys off Edge - not the pass D.  If the Steelers shut down Edge (which they are capable of doing), we could see a 13-9 score going into the fourth quarter.

BTW, I pray I am keerocking Edge tonight.

My apologies Mark, you were right about one thing...the team closest to 17 did win.

and Peyton's numbers - and stalled TD drives turning into FGs not TDs. Three things.

Peyton's numbers were average because they were trying to burn clock once the rout was on...not because it was a tight game like you suggested. Those drives didn't stall, the Colts were content with FGs.

 

[BlueOnion]

Peyton's numbers were average because they were trying to burn clock once the rout was on...not because it was a tight game like you suggested. Those drives didn't stall, the Colts were content with FGs.

I think after the interception when it was 10-0, Dungy and company told Peyton not to press unless the Steelers can keep it close.

 

[Marc Levin]

I am in the camp that thinks the Steelers and Colts are going to put up the "opposite" game than everyone expects.

I hope you don't need your FF players tonight (and I need Edge big time, so this is not a partisan opinion)

IMO, we are looking at another early season Colts D game.  My predictiion is whichever team is closest to 17 when the game ends will be the winner.

Why? B/c Manning this year keys off Edge - not the pass D.  If the Steelers shut down Edge (which they are capable of doing), we could see a 13-9 score going into the fourth quarter.

BTW, I pray I am keerocking Edge tonight.

My apologies Mark, you were right about one thing...the team closest to 17 did win.

and Peyton's numbers - and stalled TD drives turning into FGs not TDs. Three things.

Peyton's numbers were average because they were trying to burn clock once the rout was on...not because it was a tight game like you suggested. Those drives didn't stall, the Colts were content with FGs.

i didn't suggest peyton's numbers would be due to a tight game - go back and read my posts. I said it'd be a defensive battle, that Peyton would easily move into the red zone against the Steelers' pass D, and that the Colts would have to settle for FGs instead of risking passing TDs in the red zone. I ALSO said both teams had top-notch scoring defenses, so Peyton would struggle getting TDs in the red zone since the Steelers would shut down Edge - and that is what happened in the red zone on ALL THREE of the drives I mentioned above.Those drives were in the 1st and 2nd quarters - you really believe the Colts were "content" with FGs that early in the game? They wanted TDs on those drives, but the running game was getting nothing, so when the Colts got into the red zone by tearing up the Steelers' pass D, their drives STALLED into 3rd and long situations that Peyton failed to convert into TDs - which is exactly what I predicted would happen.

"Could" he have had more in the second half - no doubt he could have. But, he didn't - and the TD numbers were for the reasons I predicted.

 

[BassNBrew]

I am in the camp that thinks the Steelers and Colts are going to put up the "opposite" game than everyone expects.

I hope you don't need your FF players tonight (and I need Edge big time, so this is not a partisan opinion)

IMO, we are looking at another early season Colts D game.  My predictiion is whichever team is closest to 17 when the game ends will be the winner.

Why? B/c Manning this year keys off Edge - not the pass D.  If the Steelers shut down Edge (which they are capable of doing), we could see a 13-9 score going into the fourth quarter.

BTW, I pray I am keerocking Edge tonight.

My apologies Mark, you were right about one thing...the team closest to 17 did win.

and Peyton's numbers - and stalled TD drives turning into FGs not TDs. Three things.

Peyton's numbers were average because they were trying to burn clock once the rout was on...not because it was a tight game like you suggested. Those drives didn't stall, the Colts were content with FGs.

i didn't suggest peyton's numbers would be due to a tight game - go back and read my posts. I said it'd be a defensive battle, that Peyton would easily move into the red zone against the Steelers' pass D, and that the Colts would have to settle for FGs instead of risking passing TDs in the red zone. I ALSO said both teams had top-notch scoring defenses, so Peyton would struggle getting TDs in the red zone since the Steelers would shut down Edge - and that is what happened in the red zone on ALL THREE of the drives I mentioned above.Those drives were in the 1st and 2nd quarters - you really believe the Colts were "content" with FGs that early in the game? They wanted TDs on those drives, but the running game was getting nothing, so when the Colts got into the red zone by tearing up the Steelers' pass D, their drives STALLED into 3rd and long situations that Peyton failed to convert into TDs - which is exactly what I predicted would happen.

"Could" he have had more in the second half - no doubt he could have. But, he didn't - and the TD numbers were for the reasons I predicted.

I'm not going to argue the point as we'll never agree. I will say that either the Colts let up on the gas or there's a huge potential ***** in the armor. The play calling for the Colts was awful. For example... 1-9-PIT9 (8:14) E.James right tackle to PIT 7 for 2 yards (C.Hampton, C.Haggans).

2-7-PIT7 (7:30) E.James right tackle to PIT 9 for -2 yards (J.Farrior).

PENALTY on IND-M.Harrison, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at PIT 7 - No Play.

2-22-PIT22 (7:06) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to PIT 18 for 4 yards (D.Townsend).

3-18-PIT18 (6:46) E.James left end to PIT 11 for 7 yards (T.Kirschke).

Last year's Colts would have converted this for a TD...this year's verison didn't even try. The key to stopping the Colts is to stop James on 1st down. Do this and they go conservative. Also noticed that when Manning wiggles his fingers, James is getting the ball.

 

[NinerK]

9- Roethlisberger is back. He is 18-1 as regular season starter.

Marino or Montana wouldn't have made a difference.

Right. Favre and Young wouldn't have made a difference either....

The way the offensive line played last night, I'm not sure they would have. Ben didn't play his best game - he looked rusty after a month layoff - but his offensive line sure as hell didn't make things easier for him.

Big Ben single-handedly won my game for me this week in one of my leagues. His 2nd INT cost my opponent 3 points- final score: Dan 83, Ben Roethlisberger-owner 81.But yeah, the kid's garbage. He made more than his share of horrendous throws when he had time to pass. The difference between him when the running game is working and when it isn't is like night and day.

edit: but hey, he's 18-2 as a starter!

Exactly...to say that Marino or Montana wouldn't be able to do anything and it was all PIT's O line or IND's D is ridiculous.That would be like me saying Alex Smith is great but Montana and Young couldn't do anything with this team either.....

NinerK

 

[Marc Levin]

Last year's Colts would have converted this for a TD...this year's verison didn't even try. The key to stopping the Colts is to stop James on 1st down. Do this and they go conservative. Also noticed that when Manning wiggles his fingers, James is getting the ball.

Jeez, BnB, this was EXACTLY my point before the game when I said that Manning would not get a lot of passing Tds and would settle for FGs instead.I predicted Manning would have 250/2/2 b/c the team would go for FGs instead of converting passing TDs.

Manning had 245/2/1

You don't want to give me that prediction b/c of whatever REASONS behind it that we are currently debating - and the reasons that I cited to make my prediciton are the same reasons you are raising to debate me - that's fine - but I was dead on with the prediction of Manning's numbers.

And that is not really up for debate.