IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If this kind of thing gets sent out to parents, what do you think is happening to kids?
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The teaching of our history: critical race theory and The 1619 Project (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Why don't you show me? i was simply clarifying. he mentioned something about pointing fingers at white kids and linked this which was sent to parents.
Also, this deviation leads me to believe we at least agree its not CRT. so thankfully we can move off that rhetoric that its being taught in K-12.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
No thanks. Two reasons for that:
1) Any assignment, textbook, lesson plan, etc. that pushes racism is going to either get parsed to oblivion or, if that fails, written off as an unrepresentative example.*
2) The same people who tell us that CRT doesn't exist in school are the folks who also advocate against curriculum transparency. I take that as a concession of the main point. No further evidence is necessary.
* This is the play you're running with jon. He gave you a nice, clean example of racist messaging being put out by educators. Rather than just respond to that on its own terms, you're worrying about whether it went to kids or whether it went to parents, as if that matters.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Well, there are multiple layers. I'd say the one you mention here isn't the foundational problem being talked about above. The problem you mention is rather simple to fix. We commit to building that sort of housing. We have plenty of space for that sort of thing but it requires commitment and investment from local and state legislatures to make it happen.
The more foundational problem mentioned above revolves around the remnants of red lining and slanted lending practices that infested our system from the beginning. Those practices took generations to solidify and they are going to take generations to undo.
The Commish
Footballguy
Can always count on jon for the name calling 
FairWarning
Footballguy
I thought those lending practices were illegal? I don’t know enough about it.
affordable housing is getting more scarce with gentrification. Cities get more tax revenue in the long run also.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Look, let me break it down for you. If you say you're against CRT being in K-12 schools, I'm going to look at you cross-eyed. If you pick one, or a couple of issues you think are tangential to it, then maybe you actually get to have a conversation. For example, if you want to discuss if "white shaming" should happen in these schools? Guess what, you go that route, I bet you actually get engagement because I don't believe that people should be shamed for things they cannot control, and I'd bet 99%+ of Americans will agree with that concept.
(HULK)
(Smash)
That would be pretty outrageous to teach/discuss at high school or lower. In college, at least it can be debated. Sending it out to parents is pretty weird IMO.
The Commish
Footballguy
They are (for the most part...on paper) but the problems they created don't go away the instant the law changes. It takes action on our part to remove those effects. This is slowly getting better, but there are still problems. Gentrification is one which you mention.
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Caveman33
Footballguy
Didn't Obama's administration make a real effort to pardon and commute the sentences of nonviolent drug offenders who were screwed over by those laws in the 1980s? I believe there have been major changes over the last 20 years. Prison is for sentences over 1 year and I see plenty of current criminals with 10+ arrest rap sheets who aren't spending any time in prison. I think you'd be hard pressed to find even a few examples of petty drug users receiving prison sentences over the last 20 years.
CRT is part of our history, I agree. But experts like the lady in that video are pushing it as "the way the law sustains inequality through racism." So they should be able to point towards current racist laws that are sustaining inequality.
Caveman33
Footballguy
Not exactly. I feel we should address poverty as a class issue. No matter how someone ended up in poverty, it is unfortunate and we, as a nation, can improve this situation (through progressive wealth and income taxes, imo). This could be seen as biased against whites since they currently make up an outsized percentage of top wealth holders and earners, but I don't think it's fair to label such policies as racist.
the moops
Footballguy
I don't think CRT exists in any meaningful number of places across this country, and is almost non-existent in K-8 grades. Every public school I have taught at, the curriculum was available to every parent who wanted to see it. I have no problem with sharing of curriculum
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Cool. Can you now convince the Governor of PA and other Democrats? So far, we've got exactly ONE person - you - on the left who advocates for that. Just 125 million or more to go.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
ok.
Jon stated:
He presented a link about something presented to parents not kids and nothing asking kids to denounce their whiteness. What is pointing at kids making them denounce their whiteness? Im still waiting for this example. Others have asked as well.
The problem is that you and him are making claims then moving the goal posts. I don't support sending this stuff home to parents. And it should be addressed as i'm sure it was. The issue is people continue to make similar claims and not back them up(or misdirect like the article shared) and then just call it CRT and then people are up in arms. Lets stick to the facts ok.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Okay, but I don't understand why any of us are supposed to think that the thing that went home to parents is unrepresentative of what's being presented to kids. That seems like irrefutable evidence that jon is 100% right about that one particular school.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
i would disagree. Plenty of things get sent to us parents that do not involve the kids.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I can't speak for others, but for me, that's what makes this topic* irritating. Education programs are almost all monolithically left-wing. Graduates are expected to be committed to DEI values if they want to graduate and be eligible for licensure. Asking us for evidence that schools smuggle at least some of this stuff into K-12 feels kind of like asking for verification that water is wet, but okay fair enough whatever.
But then when somebody shows you clear and obvious evidence backing up exactly what they're complaining about, you don't believe the evidence.
It's a very strange form of gaslighting.
* Actually, it feels like we're living though a confluence of issues where one side just isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. The pandemic, trans issues, and schools all fall under that umbrella. It's easy for me to disagree amicably with somebody who thinks that we should enact more prohibitions on hate speech, for example -- I disagree very strongly, but it's a debate about values and we have a common foundation of shared beliefs about the world to work from. But these days I find myself in disagreement with people who don't understand how education works, don't understand how human biology works, and don't understand how vaccines work. It didn't use to be this way. (On the other side of the aisle, you have people who think the election was stolen and also something about pedophiles running the shadow government or something -- it's like everybody got ergot poisoning all at once).
But then when somebody shows you clear and obvious evidence backing up exactly what they're complaining about, you don't believe the evidence.
It's a very strange form of gaslighting.
* Actually, it feels like we're living though a confluence of issues where one side just isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. The pandemic, trans issues, and schools all fall under that umbrella. It's easy for me to disagree amicably with somebody who thinks that we should enact more prohibitions on hate speech, for example -- I disagree very strongly, but it's a debate about values and we have a common foundation of shared beliefs about the world to work from. But these days I find myself in disagreement with people who don't understand how education works, don't understand how human biology works, and don't understand how vaccines work. It didn't use to be this way. (On the other side of the aisle, you have people who think the election was stolen and also something about pedophiles running the shadow government or something -- it's like everybody got ergot poisoning all at once).
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If your kid's school sent you a flier extolling the glorious history of the KKK, would that inspire you to take a closer look at what was happening in your kid's classroom?
Not being snarky here --what would be an example of an education program that is monolithically right-wing?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
absolutely. Im not saying you shouldnt do the same. Im sure many did. What were the findings? It seems unlikely it was that "It is pointing at white kids and making them denounce their whiteness" but again im open to seeing examples.
Im not saying there arent teachers that are doing things in classrooms they shouldnt be doing. its happened for decades will happen for decades to come. It just seems many are being triggered about things that arent what they think they are. my local district created a course around social justice and the civil rights movement. People lost their minds. Why? If its factual whats the issue?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't know of any. I was talking about specifically colleges of education -- the kind that train teachers. But if you're asking about academic disciplines more broadly, there are no right-wing disciplines. There are apolitical fields (e.g. chemistry), fields with a decent amount of viewpoint diversity (e.g. economics is very good on this score despite having a very lopsided partisan split), and overtly activist fields (e.g. modern languages). There are no right-wing equivalents to gender studies, say.
rockaction
Footballguy
A humor song for a political @PinkydaPimpto sing.
Chasing paper you know how Twitter get
Sick of arguing with white dudes on the internet
https://youtu.be/NzCukmO4fhg
Chasing paper you know how Twitter get
Sick of arguing with white dudes on the internet
https://youtu.be/NzCukmO4fhg
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Greatest dance hit that wasn't in maybe ever.
I'm at the Pizza Hut/I'm at the Taco Bell
I'm at the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
eta*Greatness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8ViYIeH04
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
If you never heard it the second mixtape i mentioned above is surprisingly good. I wrote them off after the Pizza Hut thing lol. But was surprised.
rockaction
Footballguy
Cool. I'll have to listen to it. They certainly became serious independent rappers on their own. Their turn in Mr. Mutha####in' Exxxquire's re-mix of "Huzzah" with El-P and Despot was hot.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
https://heartlandernews.com/2022/04/29/wentzville-school-district-under-fire-for-divisive-partisan-quiz-question-about-political-ideology/
“WENTZVILLE, Mo. – Wentzville School District is facing criticism this week for a partisan and divisive question from an online high school quiz that arguably paints Republicans in a racist light.
“Teresa has heard in the news about the fatal shooting of unarmed African American men by police officers, but does not think it is necessarily due to racism,” the question reads. “Teresa is MOST likely a:
Democrat.
Black woman.
Republican.
Democrat-leaning woman.”
According to the quiz, which was given in an advanced government class, “Republican” was the correct answer. A screenshot of the euphemistic question was posted on Facebook by the grandmother of a Holt High School student, and reshared by state Rep. Richard West, R-Wentzville.”
“WENTZVILLE, Mo. – Wentzville School District is facing criticism this week for a partisan and divisive question from an online high school quiz that arguably paints Republicans in a racist light.
“Teresa has heard in the news about the fatal shooting of unarmed African American men by police officers, but does not think it is necessarily due to racism,” the question reads. “Teresa is MOST likely a:
Democrat.
Black woman.
Republican.
Democrat-leaning woman.”
According to the quiz, which was given in an advanced government class, “Republican” was the correct answer. A screenshot of the euphemistic question was posted on Facebook by the grandmother of a Holt High School student, and reshared by state Rep. Richard West, R-Wentzville.”
The Commish
Footballguy
The big question is how did the question get on the test. The school says they did not do it and the organization that develops the curriculum and test says they did not do it.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Good for them. I did chuckle a little bit at the "ensure fiscal responsibility" part for some reason.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
what a dumb question. Your teacher wrote this question. They are most likely a _________
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I didn't read far enough - that was on an AP level test? Come on.
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't think it's hard to define, but it's just like a lot of other terms like racism, violence, woman, etc... where political sides have morphed the definition to their benefit. It's gotten to the point where you can ask 4-5 people about it, and start at 4-5 different points of whay they mean.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
"Black women" are vastly outnumbered by both Republicans and Democrats, so that can't be the right answer.
"Democrat-leaning women" are outnumbered 2-1 by "Democrats," so that can't be the right answer.
Should have been 50-50 between "Democrat" and "Republican."
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I think it’s a dumb question but I also think it’s pretty clear that Republican would be the right answer.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not true.....its rather well defined.
Only in politics does it seem to be a problem with defining but in that area they also have a problem defining "socialism" and the like.
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Van Dyman
Footballguy
Regarding the question in the AP government class, I'm curious about how the question correlates to what the class was studying or discussing. I'm speculating but it might not be such a terrible question if they are learning about US demographics and which groups tend to feel which way about current social issues. Same could be true if they are learning about how politicians exploit wedge issues. Obviously, without more information, I can't know the situation but it looks like a lot of folks just expressing knee-jerk outrage. It could also just be a bad question. That happens.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
C
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