KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I will be honest, if the wife wasn't watching I'd be more inclined to not bother and just stick with the books.
On the flip side, I usually give show a Season 1 mulligan if I thought it was OK or overrated.
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The Wheel of Time on Amazon (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter KGB
- Start date
On the flip side, I usually give show a Season 1 mulligan if I thought it was OK or overrated.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Meh
I still do not really get why we care about the dragon or who it is. It's obviously really important to these people but they failed to tell the audience. I don't really care for any of these characters.
I am all for movies with good strong female characters but this is not it. Way to much girl power while the boys are idiots stumbling around looking lost.
I felt like I was supposed to feel something when the girls burnt up at the end but I just didn't care. I also was not a fan of the surprise of them coming back to life. I may be wrong but I feel they have already pulled this trick in this show.
I am hoping we have seen the last of the muppet guy.
What happened after the credits?
I still do not really get why we care about the dragon or who it is. It's obviously really important to these people but they failed to tell the audience. I don't really care for any of these characters.
I am all for movies with good strong female characters but this is not it. Way to much girl power while the boys are idiots stumbling around looking lost.
I felt like I was supposed to feel something when the girls burnt up at the end but I just didn't care. I also was not a fan of the surprise of them coming back to life. I may be wrong but I feel they have already pulled this trick in this show.
I am hoping we have seen the last of the muppet guy.
What happened after the credits?
El Floppo
Footballguy
As a non book guy, I feel like they made it clear all season what the deal with the dragon is...lots of time and explanation on that.
Muppet guy otoh...not so much.
Flying ships in the first scene, also...huh? I get that that was an old or future dragon.
And yeah...burnt magic lady coming back was least surprising thing in the episode.
I didn't mind the series, liked it fine but didn't love it. Lots of moving parts that a typical S1 has to sort out (sim to the Foundation series), so I'll accept some confusion and lack of diving too deep. Mostly it was hard to not draw immediate parallels with LoR and Star Wars with the Campbellian hero journey and too many similar types of places.
boots11234
Footballguy
It’s awful. Not even trying to be close to the books. Matt going to the dark side? Awful.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Fwiw....I don't care. Feel free to book blab...as long as you're not going forward with things. Although it sounds like the show has jumped around a lot relative to the books...so might be tough. Dunno and don't really care enough yet...so don't let me get in the way of your discussions.
That was an old Dragon (I am pretty sure).
I think the point there was to understand that society had advanced to a point in a previous cycle, before the dragon broke the world, and everything started over.
El Floppo
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
I will go back and watch as well but they might be talking about 3 minute ‘extras’ that accompany most episode that show a behind the scenes thing or elaborate a point in the story.
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Sand
Footballguy
I just finished up the last episode. Is the Babylon Bee in on the production here? At this point they're just grabbing general concepts. I'm completely agog with how they ruined the Eye of the World and the reason to go there. The Ways weren't anywhere close to the description (and terribly done). The end departure was ridiculous and had no good motive. They again completely manufacture sex scenes just to be edgy. The injection of girl power was completely unnecessary as these books already have tons. On top of all these changes the thread of motive to string them together has been lost or terribly explained.
Not sure how Amazon can make such a triumph that is The Expanse and then completely butcher this. Lets hope they fire the Urban Meyer production team and put in someone competent.
Not sure how Amazon can make such a triumph that is The Expanse and then completely butcher this. Lets hope they fire the Urban Meyer production team and put in someone competent.
The book folks are killing it. I think I’m just going to watch and not even bother reading this thread at all. I enjoyed it. It isn’t GOTs level or Expanse, but this thread isn’t making watching the show better. I’m avoiding it now.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
Book reader. I'm fine with the show so far. Entertaining enough. I assumed there would be significant changes in a 13-15 book series. It also may help that I read the series like 15 years ago; started it, I think, the book before the author passed away. It may be one of the only recent series where I anxiously awaited the next book to come out (only counting authors that complete their series). I've read some of the articles online and don't even remember some of the characters that were mentioned by complainers.
I only read the series once. Have only re-read 2 book series I think; LOTR before the movies came out and the Malazan series.
Sorry if I ruin anything.
I only read the series once. Have only re-read 2 book series I think; LOTR before the movies came out and the Malazan series.
Sorry if I ruin anything.
beer 30
Footballguy
Absolutely disagree but these threads always devolve into “book people” & “non-book people”. There is a separate thread for book folk who want to discuss anything specifically not to tread on this thread.
If you want more dialogue about the show then talk about it. I just don’t think the show, by itself, has done a real good job of explaining some things. The three dudes impress me as moody teenagers, they haven’t done a real good job of developing those characters IMO.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
It's not the book v non-book that bothers me. It's the constant critique and criticism of every aspect of the show, production and actors/characters. I'm a book reader, finished the last book several years ago, but can't say I remember every detail of minutia. But, I notice when major changes are made or the timeline is off.
I could nit pick almost every sci fi/sci fantasy show I watch, since I've probably read the books. But, I rather just enjoy the show. Which I am doing.
El Floppo
Footballguy
tbf, Witcher S2 >> Wheel S1.
S1 of Witcher was ok, but kind of all over the place... much like S1 of Wheel.
waiver wire
Footballguy
never heard of the books until this thread was started
im a sucker for these type of shows so i was in
I dont know any of the back story or characters
i think is ok , nothing great
at this point , i could care less about any of characters , no idea why the dragon is big deal as they havent explained it that well so far
not invested at this show at all at this time , hope it improves
im a sucker for these type of shows so i was in
I dont know any of the back story or characters
i think is ok , nothing great
at this point , i could care less about any of characters , no idea why the dragon is big deal as they havent explained it that well so far
not invested at this show at all at this time , hope it improves
For sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean Wheel isn't worth watching.
Witcher s1's timeline was all over the place, but the characters (and they benefited from having fewer in this regard) were infinitely more interesting and developed.
El Floppo
Footballguy
very good point about character development.
but I was mostly speaking towards story telling more than timelines, which felt really disjointed.. from stand alone dungeon and dragons adventures, to over-reaching main story arc... never really got its footing consistently, imo, and some episodes felt far better told than others.
it also benefitted from one lead nailing the role (as The Witcher has) and the other being easy on the eyes... eventually.
and totally- I'm a non book guy and have said I enjoy Wheel just fine. My point was more that I expect S2 to be more fully fleshed out and engaging, now that we've know the world and it's characters a little better.
jplvr
Footballguy
I'm checking out on this thread if I've been a problem for anyone, but I'll probably continue to check on the book thread. This is a terrible show, and besides some major complaints with 3 issues, I was mostly hopeful heading into the last episode. This thing is run by a guy who has never been successful in anything, and somehow he was granted the reins of what I consider to be the best fantasy series of all time. None of the 3 main characters are even remotely developed, and a story which needed no injection of feminism has been dialed up to a female Ghostbusters level. FTS
I'm hate watching this bull #### from here on out.
beer 30
Footballguy
Yes
Double yes but...S1 of the Witcher had me lost. Much like you all, I'm a sucker for these shows and will watch them all. I watched all of the Shannara ####show for reference. Had no prior knowledge of anything Witcher so was lost much of S1 but I thought the writers tied a really nice bow on the season with the last episode or two and brought it all back together.
Not laughing at your opinion, laughing @ hate watching.
jplvr
Footballguy
Agree on your Witcher thoughts. I had to watch that again after people familiar with the story alerted me to the issues with Season 1. I still don't know anything about it other than S1, and I have yet to watch S2, but I will.Yes
Double yes but...S1 of the Witcher had me lost. Much like you all, I'm a sucker for these shows and will watch them all. I watched all of the Shannara ####show for reference. Had no prior knowledge of anything Witcher so was lost much of S1 but I thought the writers tied a really nice bow on the season with the last episode or two and brought it all back together.
If WOT gets it together in S2, I'll participate in discussions further, but while I read all of the Walking Dead comics up to a certain point, I was able to remove myself from threads discussing that abortion of a show. I'm afraid that's where we're heading with Wheel because the show runner is a smug ####### who has no clue, and he has ratings which will allow him to continue to #### this up without a correction.
beer 30
Footballguy
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Probably obvious from previous posts, but I'm a bit of a "superfan" of the books. However, I enjoyed the first season, but was underwhelmed by the ending. I really think Covid and the actor for Matt leaving did a number on the final episode (I liked 7), and Amazon would have served the show better to let them sort a few more things out, even if it meant a bit of a delay getting it out. I do think there were some unnecessary choices, but I won't go into detail more than I already have. I actually was pretty ok with the overall story for the ending.
For the season as a whole, I kinda put it at maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. I enjoyed it, but it suffered from production, editing and money issues. Amazon really should have given it more money (and good news, season 2 is getting more, yay!) Also, apparently the show-runners lobbied for a 1.5 or 2 hour premiere and 10 episodes, and I think a lot of the story-telling issues would have been a bit easier with a bit of extra time. (And a few better choices in what stories they NEEDED to tell in the first season).
I really hope this is not considered a spoiler, I'll remove if so. The books utilized a perspective technique of the "unreliable narrator" and I really believe the show is trying to also do the same. And it may be the kind of thing that is hard to pick up on and works better in some areas and not in others. Might be more obvious on re-watches, honestly. I think it's hard to know who's perspective you are viewing things from in the show. For example, breaking the "unbreakable" door, we get two viewpoints. Similarly, the trolloc in the ways. I think there are other examples, but those are the two they really pushed to the forefront. If this is true, it will be interesting to me to see if they can do this well or if it continues to be hit or miss. And also whether or not more people pick up on it, or if it just continues to be confusing.
For the season as a whole, I kinda put it at maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. I enjoyed it, but it suffered from production, editing and money issues. Amazon really should have given it more money (and good news, season 2 is getting more, yay!) Also, apparently the show-runners lobbied for a 1.5 or 2 hour premiere and 10 episodes, and I think a lot of the story-telling issues would have been a bit easier with a bit of extra time. (And a few better choices in what stories they NEEDED to tell in the first season).
I really hope this is not considered a spoiler, I'll remove if so. The books utilized a perspective technique of the "unreliable narrator" and I really believe the show is trying to also do the same. And it may be the kind of thing that is hard to pick up on and works better in some areas and not in others. Might be more obvious on re-watches, honestly. I think it's hard to know who's perspective you are viewing things from in the show. For example, breaking the "unbreakable" door, we get two viewpoints. Similarly, the trolloc in the ways. I think there are other examples, but those are the two they really pushed to the forefront. If this is true, it will be interesting to me to see if they can do this well or if it continues to be hit or miss. And also whether or not more people pick up on it, or if it just continues to be confusing.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Pretty sure this was another casualty of Matt's actor leaving (and having to figure out a way to "leave" him behind). We've seen that there must be another way to enter/use the Ways (which is what Fain is using). I wouldn't be surprised if they use that going forward and kinda "forget" the channeling part of opening it. Or there are other ways that can be explained without it being a big deal going forward.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The story was too complex and there were too many characters.
I recognize there is a need to appeal to hard core book readers and long term fans, but The Mandolorian, for all it's flaws ( it's not perfect), does a very good job of taking a relative simple plotline and breaking it down into manageable chunks that focus on practical world building. Favreau and Filoni did a good job understanding the main character is simply a vehicle to highlight how everyone else interacts and reacts to him in conflict.
Complex characters inside a simple storyline will always win out over an extremely complex plot and narrative with painfully simplistic characters moving like pawns on a chess board.
If you look at the Netflix/Disney Marvel shows, the villains should be the ones with their own shows, and not as foils for pedestrian hero characters. Kingpin, Cottonmouth, Kilgore, Zemo, etc, etc.
Shows without commercial breaks have zero excuses. JJ Abram's Lost had some real narrative problems on it's own, but the network TV format ( 42 minutes with commercial breaks and an extended recap to start, with the traditional teaser and need for a mini cliffhanger to end the episode) pushed the writers further into a corner.
Snappy witty writing isn't as useful as efficient writing. Efficient writing is taking a short scene and doing 5-6 different things at once. Michael Corleone waiting for Frank Pentangeli to come back and talks about how to keep your friends close but your enemies closer accomplishes 7-8 different things for the overall narrative.
Things that will help
1) Establish the main villain early and keep them involved and invested. Formulate the viability of the threat in place for the main characters. You have to get a charismatic actor and let him chew the scenery as your "Big Bad"
2) You have to give the main characters an intermediate goal as season long arcs. Give them a conflict to overcome so they can organically develop , even if that breaks canon
3) You have to establish the rules of the world. The first time audience doesn't know the limits of Moraine's power or what she can or can't do or why or when or how.
4) When you have newish limited actors as your main cast, you have to give them "anchor traits" BA Barracus refuses to fly but he loves milk. Face Man loves women and is a grifter. Murdoch is the insane pilot. Give them each something unique to overcome ( like the Wizard of Oz)
The pandemic probably hurt the overall process, but this first season was quite sloppy. When you have a lot of things working against you, simple is always better. Z Nation was infinitely more structured than The Walking Dead despite probably having 1/100th of it's budget and 1/500th of it's actual raw acting talent. Z Nation had a rag tag group trying to get one man across the country alive. Simple. Walking Dead just meandered from one recycled nihilistic plot to another. WOT could have done more with the money they did have.
There is a larger question whether this show would have stood a better chance just being fully animated and operated like prestige animation ( i.e. Attack On Titan) Some stories require too much for a practical live action budget to cover and handle.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
I fully agree with this - it is an extremely hard story to adapt, and it was always going to be tough to try to do. And it was sloppy at times, for sure.
As for animated, bleck. I know some people like it, but I would have been disappointed right off the bat to hear they were going that route. Just my personal opinion, I know others love it and it may be a good format for a story like this. But it would not be my cup of tea. I'd probably hate watch tho and maybe it'd win me over, but overall I just have a hard time with animated shows. I've tried to watch some of the Star Wars ones and a few others, and they just don't do it for me.
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Tick
Footballguy
I think we saw that with Nynaeve thinking she had used her power in the Ways, but Rand later thinking he had instead. Or did I interpret that wrong?
The Gator
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
foxco
Footballguy
That might be the biggest insult to WOT I've ever read.I’ve tried watching multiple times but just can’t get into it. Instead I’m actually rewatching iron fist
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
The show or the parody linked to just prior to this post?I’ve tried watching multiple times but just can’t get into it. Instead I’m actually rewatching iron fist
The Gator
Footballguy
Season 2 trailer
youtu.be
The Wheel of Time Season 2 - Official Trailer | Prime Video
The Great Hunt begins September 1, but your hunt begins now. Watch the Official Trailer for #TheWheelOfTime season 2, and see what you can find…» SUBSCRIBE: ...
youtu.be
the moops
Footballguy
Yes!! I had forgotten all about this. I enjoyed S1 quite a bit
kupcho1
Footballguy
Did this show come out in 2003 because I have no idea what I'm referring to here (especially an after credits scene; I must have been taking the piss), and no inclination to rewatch season 1.
MTskibum
Footballguy
Thanks for the reminder.
GregR
Footballguy
Reminder there's a thread for us book readers who want to talk more in depth without ruining this thread.
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