There is ZERO chance Lebron James returns to Cleveland (2 Viewers)

[rodg12]

Do you guys think this will change things?

that is so pathetic, it is perfect

I honestly think this is the most pathetic thing I have seen adults do in all my life.

It's up there. I just can't stop watching it though...

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Whole lotta people in this thread that are all of a sudden NBA experts because they watched a few playoff games. Here are my thoughs, for whatever they are worth.

1. Questioning Lebron's effort in game 5 and possibly game 6 may or not be fair, depending on how much it turns out his injury came into play. I think he's hurt more than he's letting on, but that's debatable. However, questioning his drive and effort on a night to night basis since he's been in the league is flat out ridiculous. The guy flat out brings it. If he wasn't hurt, I can't explain game 5 at all, but I'm willing to overlook one game in the scope of his entire career. Everyone has those.

2. His surrounding cast is awful. Everyone on that team has flaws that Lebron is able to cover up in regular season games when the intensity isn't as high by the opposing defenses, but become very apparent in the playoffs. Take LBJ off that team and replace him with any other max contract guy that you want to, and they don't go .500.

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

For those questioning his effort in the playoffs, let's remember some of his past performances:

Last year vs. Boston in game 7 he dropped 45 and hit several clutch shots in the 4th quarter. They lost, but it certainly wasn't on him.

Last year his playoff averages were: 35ppg, 9 rebs, 7 assists, and 2 steals.

In 2006, his first playoff series ever, after a triple double in his first game and scoring 41 earlier in the series, he hit the game winning shot vs. Washington.

He hit a miraculous 3 pointer to win the game vs. Orlando in game 2 last year

48 points, including the team's final 25 points and 29 of the final 30, vs. Detroit to basically end the Pistons run. He hit the game winner. He was double teamed and trapped for 90% of his touches in that quarter, and it didn't matter. He completely took over the game, and showed every bit of grit, competitiveness, fire, drive or whatever you want to call it. The same things he's being accused of not doing today.

 

[shader]

It's true that, in the final assessment, regular season doesn't matter. Playoffs are the only measuring stick in the NBA. But that doesn't mean that an assessment made now should be diametrically opposed to assessments made during the regular season, or even during the playoffs previously. The fact is this: up until Tuesday night, the majority of NBA players, coaches, and writers asserted that the Cleveland Cavaliers were the best team in the NBA. They were considered a much better team, for example, than the Cavalier team that went to the Finals against the Spurs a few years back. That team, even when it was winning, was considered a one-man squad. This current team was not, and it's only now that they've lost twice in a row in the playoffs that suddenly they also are a one man team. It's revisionism, and I reject it.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are a better team than the Boston Celtics. They are a better team than the Orlando Magic. They are quite possibly a better team than the Lakers. They lost because LeBron played poorly in the 4th quarter of game 4, in all of game 5, and in game 6, and because Mo Williams did not play well in games 4 and 5. They also lost because their coach made awful decisions regarding substitutions. I think that LeBron played poorly due to injury, though we may never know the truth.

If LeBron returns to Cleveland, the Cavaliers will still be one of the 2-3 best teams in basketball, and with the addition of a quality shooter (Joe Johnson? Ray Allen, even?) that might be enough to get him over the top. Because it takes a while, usually, for team chemistry to gel, I am not convinced that if he chooses to leave he will be any closer to a championship anytime soon than he is right now. Therefore, it seems to me that the possibility of him sticking around is still pretty good at this point.

Well I've always thought that Cleveland sucked outside Lebron.

 

[EYLive]

Whole lotta people in this thread that are all of a sudden NBA experts because they watched a few playoff games.1. Questioning Lebron's effort in game 5 and possibly game 6 may or not be fair, depending on how much it turns out his injury came into play. I think he's hurt more than he's letting on, but that's debatable. However, questioning his drive and effort on a night to night basis since he's been in the league is flat out ridiculous. The guy flat out brings it. If he wasn't hurt, I can't explain game 5 at all, but I'm willing to overlook one game in the scope of his entire career. Everyone has those. 2. His surrounding cast is awful. Everyone on that team has flaws that Lebron is able to cover up in regular season games when the intensity isn't as high by the opposing defenses, but become very apparent in the playoffs. Take LBJ off that team and replace him with any other max contract guy that you want to, and they don't go .500. 3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4. For those questioning his effort in the playoffs, let's remember some of his past performances:Last year vs. Boston in game 7 he dropped 45 and hit several clutch shots in the 4th quarter. They lost, but it certainly wasn't on him. Last year his playoff averages were: 35ppg, 9 rebs, 7 assists, and 2 steals. In 2006, his first playoff series ever, after a triple double in his first game and scoring 41 earlier in the series, he hit the game winning shot vs. Washington.He hit a miraculous 3 pointer to win the game vs. Orlando in game 2 last year48 points, including the team's final 25 points and 29 of the final 30, vs. Detroit to basically end the Pistons run. He hit the game winner. He was double teamed and trapped for 90% of his touches in that quarter, and it didn't matter. He completely took over the game, and showed every bit of grit, competitiveness, fire, drive or whatever you want to call it. The same things he's being accused of not doing today.

At this point people need to pile on Cavs management not the players.

 

[Bobcat10]

Suppose Cleveland had acquired Amare instead of Jamison, as almost happened. Anyone think it would have made a difference?

Against the Celts? Who knows. I guess it couldn't have went worse based on how Jamison played.Signing Lebron? Yes. Especially with Shaq and Z likely not coming back next year.

 

[saintfool]

Suppose Cleveland had acquired Amare instead of Jamison, as almost happened. Anyone think it would have made a difference?

Against the Celts? Who knows. I guess it couldn't have went worse based on how Jamison played.

Signing Lebron? Yes. Especially with Shaq and Z likely not coming back next year.

they just didn't know how to use jamison the right way. another error in mike brown's already suspect judgment...

 

[Dr. No]

Would the Cavs have won a title if Boozer hadn't left?

 

[shader]

LOL. That video tells me all I need to know. He is out of that ridiculous town.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Whole lotta people in this thread that are all of a sudden NBA experts because they watched a few playoff games.1. Questioning Lebron's effort in game 5 and possibly game 6 may or not be fair, depending on how much it turns out his injury came into play. I think he's hurt more than he's letting on, but that's debatable. However, questioning his drive and effort on a night to night basis since he's been in the league is flat out ridiculous. The guy flat out brings it. If he wasn't hurt, I can't explain game 5 at all, but I'm willing to overlook one game in the scope of his entire career. Everyone has those. 2. His surrounding cast is awful. Everyone on that team has flaws that Lebron is able to cover up in regular season games when the intensity isn't as high by the opposing defenses, but become very apparent in the playoffs. Take LBJ off that team and replace him with any other max contract guy that you want to, and they don't go .500. 3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4. For those questioning his effort in the playoffs, let's remember some of his past performances:Last year vs. Boston in game 7 he dropped 45 and hit several clutch shots in the 4th quarter. They lost, but it certainly wasn't on him. Last year his playoff averages were: 35ppg, 9 rebs, 7 assists, and 2 steals. In 2006, his first playoff series ever, after a triple double in his first game and scoring 41 earlier in the series, he hit the game winning shot vs. Washington.He hit a miraculous 3 pointer to win the game vs. Orlando in game 2 last year48 points, including the team's final 25 points and 29 of the final 30, vs. Detroit to basically end the Pistons run. He hit the game winner. He was double teamed and trapped for 90% of his touches in that quarter, and it didn't matter. He completely took over the game, and showed every bit of grit, competitiveness, fire, drive or whatever you want to call it. The same things he's being accused of not doing today.

At this point people need to pile on Cavs management not the players.

I can't argue with that. I just can't believe how popular it is to hate Lebron and say he's soft/spoiled/etc. at the moment. In 5 years, this will be nothing but a blip on the radar.

 

[Spartans Rule]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

 

[bagger]

Whole lotta people in this thread that are all of a sudden NBA experts because they watched a few playoff games. Here are my thoughs, for whatever they are worth. 1. Questioning Lebron's effort in game 5 and possibly game 6 may or not be fair, depending on how much it turns out his injury came into play. I think he's hurt more than he's letting on, but that's debatable. However, questioning his drive and effort on a night to night basis since he's been in the league is flat out ridiculous. The guy flat out brings it. If he wasn't hurt, I can't explain game 5 at all, but I'm willing to overlook one game in the scope of his entire career. Everyone has those. 2. His surrounding cast is awful. Everyone on that team has flaws that Lebron is able to cover up in regular season games when the intensity isn't as high by the opposing defenses, but become very apparent in the playoffs. Take LBJ off that team and replace him with any other max contract guy that you want to, and they don't go .500. 3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4. For those questioning his effort in the playoffs, let's remember some of his past performances:Last year vs. Boston in game 7 he dropped 45 and hit several clutch shots in the 4th quarter. They lost, but it certainly wasn't on him. Last year his playoff averages were: 35ppg, 9 rebs, 7 assists, and 2 steals. In 2006, his first playoff series ever, after a triple double in his first game and scoring 41 earlier in the series, he hit the game winning shot vs. Washington.He hit a miraculous 3 pointer to win the game vs. Orlando in game 2 last year48 points, including the team's final 25 points and 29 of the final 30, vs. Detroit to basically end the Pistons run. He hit the game winner. He was double teamed and trapped for 90% of his touches in that quarter, and it didn't matter. He completely took over the game, and showed every bit of grit, competitiveness, fire, drive or whatever you want to call it. The same things he's being accused of not doing today.

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

 

[saintfool]

I can't argue with that. I just can't believe how popular it is to hate Lebron and say he's soft/spoiled/etc. at the moment. In 5 years, this will be nothing but a blip on the radar.

people said the same thing about kobe a few years ago. he just needs to sexually assault a woman to change that...

 

[saintfool]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

they play in the eastern conference?

 

[Spartans Rule]

Would the Cavs have won a title if Boozer hadn't left?

Really hard to say because that happened six years ago and would've affected every transaction the Cavs made since.But I'll say yes, they would've.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

True. Shaq is so awful now that I kind of forget about him. I should have stated that Boston has 4 future HOF guys playing at least in the general range of the something near or resembling the peak of the abilities.

 

[Wrigley]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

X

 

[bagger]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

they play in the eastern conference?

ok, but they lost in the eastern conference semi finals...are they the 3rd best team in the eastern conference? 4th?

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't argue with that. I just can't believe how popular it is to hate Lebron and say he's soft/spoiled/etc. at the moment. In 5 years, this will be nothing but a blip on the radar.

people said the same thing about kobe a few years ago. he just needs to sexually assault a woman to change that...

Is it wrong that I 'ed at this?

 

[saintfool]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

True. Shaq is so awful now that I kind of forget about him. I should have stated that Boston has 4 future HOF guys playing at least in the general range of the something near or resembling the peak of the abilities.

KG and who else?

 

[tribecalledjeff]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

Specifically BECAUSE Lebron brings it every night. If a team isn't playing at peak intensity, which happens in the regular season, Lebron can cover up his team's glaring weaknesses by himself. He destroys bad teams or teams that are half assing it. But that doesn't happen in the playoffs. His teammates get exposed, and when everybody is trying as hard as he always does, he can't overcome it alone.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

True. Shaq is so awful now that I kind of forget about him. I should have stated that Boston has 4 future HOF guys playing at least in the general range of the something near or resembling the peak of the abilities.

KG and who else?

Seriously?

 

[tribecalledjeff]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

X

Yeah, I corrected myself there.

 

[bagger]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

Specifically BECAUSE Lebron brings it every night. If a team isn't playing at peak intensity, which happens in the regular season, Lebron can cover up his team's glaring weaknesses by himself. He destroys bad teams or teams that are half assing it. But that doesn't happen in the playoffs. His teammates get exposed, and when everybody is trying as hard as he always does, he can't overcome it alone.

so lebron is only good against bad teams?so he's like lamar odom. awesome.

 

[saintfool]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

they play in the eastern conference?

ok, but they lost in the eastern conference semi finals...are they the 3rd best team in the eastern conference? 4th?

better question might be "is new jersey the worst team in the nba or just the eastern conference?"

 

[bagger]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

they play in the eastern conference?

ok, but they lost in the eastern conference semi finals...are they the 3rd best team in the eastern conference? 4th?

better question might be "is new jersey the worst team in the nba or just the eastern conference?"

why would that be a better question? they do have the coolest owner, i know that much.

 

[saintfool]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

True. Shaq is so awful now that I kind of forget about him. I should have stated that Boston has 4 future HOF guys playing at least in the general range of the something near or resembling the peak of the abilities.

KG and who else?

Seriously?

let's just say that i'm not quite ready to annoint brian scalabrine to springfield, ok?

 

[tribecalledjeff]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

Specifically BECAUSE Lebron brings it every night. If a team isn't playing at peak intensity, which happens in the regular season, Lebron can cover up his team's glaring weaknesses by himself. He destroys bad teams or teams that are half assing it. But that doesn't happen in the playoffs. His teammates get exposed, and when everybody is trying as hard as he always does, he can't overcome it alone.

so lebron is only good against bad teams?so he's like lamar odom. awesome.

Lebron is only good enough to overcome his shockingly awful surrounding cast against bad teams, sure. So you expect him to be good enough to beat good teams by himself? A little unfair, no?When Jordan retired for a year, the Bulls won like 55 games and went to the playoffs with basically the same roster. This Cleveland team without Lebron would win about 20 games.

 

[Bobcat10]

Suppose Cleveland had acquired Amare instead of Jamison, as almost happened. Anyone think it would have made a difference?

Against the Celts? Who knows. I guess it couldn't have went worse based on how Jamison played.

Signing Lebron? Yes. Especially with Shaq and Z likely not coming back next year.

they just didn't know how to use jamison the right way. another error in mike brown's already suspect judgment...

I sort of agree with you. He didn't really shoot particulary well being used properly or not. Jamison got abused on defense. Mike Brown is a defensive coach, but he can't make Jamison better in the post. Amare isn't great either by all accounts defensively, but he has to be better than Jamison on that side of the ball.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Suppose Cleveland had acquired Amare instead of Jamison, as almost happened. Anyone think it would have made a difference?

Against the Celts? Who knows. I guess it couldn't have went worse based on how Jamison played.

Signing Lebron? Yes. Especially with Shaq and Z likely not coming back next year.

they just didn't know how to use jamison the right way. another error in mike brown's already suspect judgment...

You mean he wanted him to actually play on the defensive end?

 

[TxBuckeye]

I hope LeBron was hurt more than he let on. Otherwise, he just showed that he has no heart. Kobe, as much as I dislike anything Laker, wills his team to win. LeBron folded like a damn tent in that series. I was very disappointed to see his demeanor. He did not look like a leader. He did not look like a player that wasn't going to let his team lose.

 

[rodg12]

3. Boston is a much better team than Cleveland. They have 4 future hall of fame guys. Cleveland has 1. Yes, he was the best player on the floor, but Boston had the next 4.

I agree with your general point here, but I think Cleveland has 2 future HOF guys.

True. Shaq is so awful now that I kind of forget about him. I should have stated that Boston has 4 future HOF guys playing at least in the general range of the something near or resembling the peak of the abilities.

KG and who else?

Seriously?

Seriously. Who's the 4th? You're anointing Rondo as a HOFer already? Or are you counting Sheed?

 

[saintfool]

Suppose Cleveland had acquired Amare instead of Jamison, as almost happened. Anyone think it would have made a difference?

Against the Celts? Who knows. I guess it couldn't have went worse based on how Jamison played.

Signing Lebron? Yes. Especially with Shaq and Z likely not coming back next year.

they just didn't know how to use jamison the right way. another error in mike brown's already suspect judgment...

You mean he wanted him to actually play on the defensive end?

they knew this when they traded for him. you wouldn't have gotten much defense out of amare either, fwiw...

 

[saintfool]

I hope LeBron was hurt more than he let on. Otherwise, he just showed that he has no heart. Kobe, as much as I dislike anything Laker, wills his team to win. LeBron folded like a damn tent in that series. I was very disappointed to see his demeanor. He did not look like a leader. He did not look like a player that wasn't going to let his team lose.

offseason training facility for lebron perhaps?

 

[Spartans Rule]

Would the Cavs have won a title if Boozer hadn't left?

Really hard to say because that happened six years ago and would've affected every transaction the Cavs made since.But I'll say yes, they would've.

Looking back, in 2004 Cleveland had one of the most disastrous offseasons in NBA history.The biggest problem was of course the failure to keep Boozer. But they also used the #10 pick in the draft on Luke Jackson. While Jackson has gone on to become one of the greatest players in Idaho Stampede history, the Cavs could've had Andris Biedrins, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Jameer Nelson or Kevin Martin.Keep Boozer, make a good pick there and maybe today we're talking about a Cavs dynasty.

 

[Sammy3469]

I place absolutely no faith in this rumor at all, but supposedly Delonte West has been hooking up with LeBron's mom and LeBron only heard about it before game 5.

 

[saintfool]

I place absolutely no faith in this rumor at all, but supposedly Delonte West has been hooking up with LeBron's mom and LeBron only heard about it before game 5.

to be fair, delonte's pretty homely...ETA - goggling "delonte west" turned up this link

 

[wadegarrett]

I place absolutely no faith in this rumor at all, but supposedly Delonte West has been hooking up with LeBron's mom and LeBron only heard about it before game 5.

so funny...my cousin just called me saying this exact thing :XETA: Delonte is far from Adonis but I find it hard to believe he's sunk that low

 

[B-Deep]

I place absolutely no faith in this rumor at all, but supposedly Delonte West has been hooking up with LeBron's mom and LeBron only heard about it before game 5.

so funny...my cousin just called me saying this exact thing :XETA: Delonte is far from Adonis but I find it hard to believe he's sunk that low

so that wasn't a joke?

 

[Zigg]

Long thread already, so can someone tell me if the Cavs can sign a second max to go with LeBron.

 

[saintfool]

Long thread already, so can someone tell me if the Cavs can sign a second max to go with LeBron.

no way. they would have to trade half their roster to get another big time player.

 

[wadegarrett]

Long thread already, so can someone tell me if the Cavs can sign a second max to go with LeBron.

not right now...would have to move some pieces and money

 

[wadegarrett]

I place absolutely no faith in this rumor at all, but supposedly Delonte West has been hooking up with LeBron's mom and LeBron only heard about it before game 5.

so funny...my cousin just called me saying this exact thing ETA: Delonte is far from Adonis but I find it hard to believe he's sunk that low

so that wasn't a joke?

just a rumor floating around town right now

 

[Tony Jabroni]

HELLO MILWAUKEE!

 

[Tecumseh]

THE CAVS HAD THE BEST REGULAR SEASON RECORD THAT LAST 2 SEASONS!!!You do not get that accomplishment by having a sub par supporting cast.

I made this exact same comment last night and was told I should stop talking about hoops because I knew nothing about it.

I thought it was because you suggested the Jordan Bulls had no competition whatsoever.

No, it's because he attempted to pontificate like he's Dr. Jack, and then followed that up by asking if Rasheed had ever won a ring.

 

[shader]

if cleveland is so bad how did they have the nba's best record?

Specifically BECAUSE Lebron brings it every night. If a team isn't playing at peak intensity, which happens in the regular season, Lebron can cover up his team's glaring weaknesses by himself. He destroys bad teams or teams that are half assing it. But that doesn't happen in the playoffs. His teammates get exposed, and when everybody is trying as hard as he always does, he can't overcome it alone.

so lebron is only good against bad teams?so he's like lamar odom. awesome.

Lebron is only good enough to overcome his shockingly awful surrounding cast against bad teams, sure. So you expect him to be good enough to beat good teams by himself? A little unfair, no?When Jordan retired for a year, the Bulls won like 55 games and went to the playoffs with basically the same roster. This Cleveland team without Lebron would win about 20 games.

This guy gets it

 

[saintfool]

even if lebron does stay, what are their chances at winning a championship? let's assume that mike brown is fired and they add someone reasonably effective as a head coach.

 

[Sammy3469]

even if lebron does stay, what are their chances at winning a championship? let's assume that mike brown is fired and they add someone reasonably effective as a head coach.

depending on the coach (needs to be a real leader like Phil Jackson and not a snakeoil salesman like Calipari) and offseason moves, pretty good.

 

[saintfool]

even if lebron does stay, what are their chances at winning a championship? let's assume that mike brown is fired and they add someone reasonably effective as a head coach.

depending on the coach (needs to be a real leader like Phil Jackson and not a snakeoil salesman like Calipari) and offseason moves, pretty good.

not going to happen. you're kind of stuck with non-HOF coaches to choose from.

 

[Bobcat10]

even if lebron does stay, what are their chances at winning a championship? let's assume that mike brown is fired and they add someone reasonably effective as a head coach.

depending on the coach (needs to be a real leader like Phil Jackson and not a snakeoil salesman like Calipari) and offseason moves, pretty good.

not going to happen. you're kind of stuck with non-HOF coaches to choose from.

Not that I think Phil is coming to Cleveland, but isn't there substance to Buss possibly not wanting to pay Phil upwards of $12M?

 

[Sammy3469]

even if lebron does stay, what are their chances at winning a championship? let's assume that mike brown is fired and they add someone reasonably effective as a head coach.

depending on the coach (needs to be a real leader like Phil Jackson and not a snakeoil salesman like Calipari) and offseason moves, pretty good.

not going to happen. you're kind of stuck with non-HOF coaches to choose from.

yeah...I was more trying to say you need a coach of some stature who knows what they're doing.