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Pittman and Shipp both played in Arizona. Jones couldn't beat out either of them.
Jones had one run for 61 yds, otherwise he was 136 for 566, or 4.16 ypc. The real stat here is Pittman had 187 carries and 75 receptions. Jones has a habit of carrying the ball less than the other RB on the team.Dayne's looking pretty good this preseason. Anyone got him 8-12?
Yep - you listed them in reverse order though. His ypc have gone up each year in the league, and most dramaticly when switching from Arizona to Tampa Bay. Lovie Smith obviously liked what he saw from Jones enough to target him as his main FA acquisition. It will be interesting to see what happens to that ypc figure in an offense specificly geared to his running style.
What? Nobody would expect 2000.But maybe the previous years of 1324 and 1327 yds would suggest a good year. Has Jones done anything that would even suggest a good year?
Just saying the "rookie QB" and "WR" thing doesn't hold water.Last I checked Chicago rebuilt its O-line with proven players like Tait and Brown (i think) and have looked good....Terry Shea is using a good system, and Jones has talent (high draft propect)...only thing missing is that Jones needs to produce/step up...and all the pieces are in place for this to happen (unlike in AZ).Not trying to convince, but it is an advantage to single out players that are in position to go low and break out...wouldnt give up too much, but there is no denying that his upside is high.
).Many laughed and thought I was crazy. Here were some questionable backs that went before him...Chris Brown 2.10Charlie Garner 3.12 
Lee Suggs 4.3Kevin Jones 4.5Tiki Barber 4.11TJ Duckett 5.8 
:X Here's guessing that I get the last laugh on this pick. True, he is boom or bust, but at that round as my 3rd, I can risk it. 
Oh, so you are going to take away a 61 yard gain. Does that mean for ALL the other players, you will also take away a 50+ yard gain? That is simply ridiculous. Apples to apples, please.Furthermore, Dayne is doing it in PRESEASON. Jones had his numbers, short a span as they may be, in the REAL season. Again, apples to apples. Not saying Jones is a guarantee, but you need to be consistent with your numbers if you are using them to support an arguement.
Remember when the same was said about.....AHMAN GREEN???Thomas Jones was the Bucs best RB when he got the chance last year. He showed bursts that Pittman and Shipp only dream of. So he didn't blossom right away - not everyone does. He's got the skill, and in the right situation he could be very good. I think he's in the perfect situation, and could end up in the top 10 in some scoring systems. A potentially great value when 20 RB's are off the board. Oh, and how in the world can you have Foster ranker higher than Jones? Are you betting that he will start 10+ games? If not, that is just crazy.
Things hes done to receive the hype he is current getting:1.Be a great talent out of college and be taken with the #7 overall pick. Predicted by many to be a superstar in the making. 2.After struggling his first few years, have a great 2nd half of the season last year.3.Go to a team that totally fits his strengths.4.Go to a team that seems intent on trading its only other legitimate RB, so as to make him the unquestioned #1 option not only at RB, but in the entire offense.5.Go to a system that has produced an absolute stud(and I mean ABSOLUTE stud) every time its been tried in the past.6.Look great so far in the preseason.He could obviously turn out to be a bust. But to say that you can't see at all why there are any reasons for hype is a bit foolish imo.
The Rams were 4-12 before the season that Faulk came over. The Chiefs were 7-9 the year before they got Holmes and 6-10 the year before Holmes exploded as the best RB in the league. The Bears btw were 13-3 in the last year they played a home game. Next argument please.EDIT: I see that someone already refuted these points, so I'm a little late.
So in Holmes first year, other than Holmes KC had(according to your own words) no solid WRs, a stud TE who had an off year, and Trent Green who was very unproven(had one good year in Washington and was coming off of a season ending injury). Basically the only one of those who you would've counted as a plus would've been Gonzo, but even you said he had an off year. Explain to me how thats so much better?I don't know why you list 1996 and 1997 only(or at all for that matter) because Faulk came over in 1999 for the Rams. That year they had their starting QB injured in the preseason, a rookie WR forced into their starting lineup(Holt), and an extremely injury prone WR who was good but not great when he did play and who had come off a season in which he only played 5 games(Bruce). What on earth is so good about that?Now of course its easy to look back and see how Holt turned out to be a stud, Bruce shed the injury prone label, Warner turned into a 2 time MVP, Green turned out to be the real deal, the Chiefs o-line turned into the best in the league, and so on and so on. But perhaps in two years we'll look back and see tons of stars on Chicago. Maybe it is the system that they're running. I fail to see any differences at all between how Faulk and the Rams looked and Priest and the Chiefs looked before their first season and how Jones looks with the Bears now. Next argument.
1999 Baltimore Ravens: Priest Holmes 89 carries, Errict Rhett 236 carriesDoes that mean he can't even beat out Rhett? Of course not. Its just that some offenses suit players strengths better than others. Chicago targeted Jones, kicked out their incumbent RB, and built the offense around him. Next!
The team may have been aweful, but the Arizona O-Line was REAL big and REAL GOOD. Jones is very overrated. I agree with the post on the first page of this thread. I would have Duce and Garner ahead of him but not Moe Williams or Forster. Jones shouldn't be picked before the 4th round in any 10 team league and not before the the 3rd round in any 12 team league.
I've been on the pro-TJ side in a number of other threads all offseason, so I guess I better get in on this one as well in case this is the thread that happens to get bumped in October.
Edge / Barlow / TJ "easily" the best RBs in the league?You might want to have one non-risky RB before you make that claim.Bump this in November when Edge is hurt and Barlow / TJ are both under-performing.Meanwhile, the Holmes / C Brown drafter will be running wild!
When I have 3 of my top 12 RBs, yes, I consider what I have to be the best RBs in my league. Easily.If I'm wrong about my guys then obviously that won't happen. But I'm not worried about Chris Brown being better than any of my three guys.I'm not worried about Edgerrin at all right now. Based on nothing but opportunity and talent, Barlow will get 350 touches this year, and unless he gets hurt he'll have no problem living up to his draft position. And as for Jones, well, people finally seem to be catching on to how good his chances are to fulfilling his promise as a RB this year.
I don't really believe it, but since I drafted T. Jones in the 4th, I sure hope you're right
If that o-line was so good then how come no other stud RBs have ever come from there? Their o-line was full of high draft picks who did nothing but disappoint. Did they ever have one pro bowl lineman during Jones' time there? Also the fact that they were behind so often means they had to abandon the run. Next!
Didn't you also get CBrown at 3.06? I thought I saw that in another thread - if so, we had identical 3rd and 4th rounds - the mistrust of TJones in general pushed him to me at 4.06 after I took C Brown at 3.06.Someone even said - "I wonder if he'll suck as bad as he did in Arizona again" Who cares - as my RB3 inthe 4th round, I'll take the upside of TJones.I could EASILY see a Priest Holmes/ASmith "rejected, though talented, RB" factor occurring and I could see Jones having at least a year or two of good 'nuff FF production.That said, I could also see a struggling Bear offense not getting him enough opp to produce as he should and the lack of passing game support giving him too many 8 in the box situations.That said, I am actually going to start him as my RB2 versus Detroit at home over Chris Brown heading into Miami. Aaaaaah, starting RB talk, must mean the season is 13 days away!I don't really believe it, but since I drafted T. Jones in the 4th, I sure hope you're right
Won't that be similar to the situation Chicago finds themselves in this year - esp. with their losses in the secondary and the fact they face Favre, C-Pepp and Harringont twice each this year?
Nice drafting MarcDidn't you also get CBrown at 3.06? I thought I saw that in another thread - if so, we had identical 3rd and 4th rounds - the mistrust of TJones in general pushed him to me at 4.06 after I took C Brown at 3.06.Someone even said - "I wonder if he'll suck as bad as he did in Arizona again" Who cares - as my RB3 inthe 4th round, I'll take the upside of TJones.I could EASILY see a Priest Holmes/ASmith "rejected, though talented, RB" factor occurring and I could see Jones having at least a year or two of good 'nuff FF production.That said, I could also see a struggling Bear offense not getting him enough opp to produce as he should and the lack of passing game support giving him too many 8 in the box situations.That said, I am actually going to start him as my RB2 versus Detroit at home over Chris Brown heading into Miami. Aaaaaah, starting RB talk, must mean the season is 13 days away!I don't really believe it, but since I drafted T. Jones in the 4th, I sure hope you're right
My 12 team league went like thisTomlinson at 1.02Harrison at 2.11 (couldn't believe he fell to me- I was set to go RB-RB but couldn't pass the value)C Brown at 3.02T Jones at 4.11 (this shocked me that he was still there)I added Emmitt late as a 4th RB and took a shot with Hollings and O Smith really late. I am looking to start both Jones and Chris Brown (2RBs plus a flex) along with LT and am pretty pleased with the idea.
Not really. The Bears will actually USE Thomas Jones as a big part of the passing game when they fall behind. He won't come off the field, and he's going to have EVERY opportunity to succeed. Receiving yards count every bit as much as rushing yards, and he should definitely have plenty of both.There's no doubting his opporunity this year.
Exactly!! That's the way I see the Bears this year!Given two equally talented running backs with the same opportunity, the one on the better team will score more fantasy points.Thomlinson and Taylor and Deuce put up great numbers because they are SO talented. But unless you can prove TJ is more talented than Brown / Westbrook / Dillon / Rudi / Henry....I'll be passing on TJ.
Well, I don't consider them equally talented. Jones is the more physically talented RB of the 2 in my opinion, especially if you factor in receiving ability.The difference between TJ in Arizona and TJ in Tampa Bay and so far in Chicago is that he's actually playing up to his talent level.
While we're jerking each other off here:1.06 Deuce (Priest>LT>SAlexander>AGreen>Portis it CAN happen)2.06 HarrisonNice drafting Marc
(Moss in the first, Holt went before him, and everyone else took RBs in the second)3.06 Chris Brown4.06 TJonesFilled in the rest of the 1/2/2 lineup with Moulds and ABrooks/Plummer, I am four deep behind my WRs with RSmith, Driver, Gardner and Rice (I would have gone 5/5 WR/RB, but those WRs just kept falling).I'm thin behind my top-3 RBs, but it's a start-2 league so I should be OK - I just needed to get AThomas to back up Jones and someone snagged him before I could.ASmith was left to the WW, so I can back up Brown sometime later if I feel like it.On this talent discussion - I have yet to see TJones turn talent into production - even in his decent TB days last year. He was half a talent, IMO. He will def, get plenty of OPP this year to turn that T into O, which is why he was a nice low risk-high reward player for me at the RB3 spot.The point is simple. When you take away one 61 yard run, and it significantly lowers his ypc, then it is meaningless to use ypc as a gauge. If you take away Lewis' longest run of 82 yards, his ypc only drops from 5.3 to 5.14. Obviously, that is much more meaningful and is because of his greater number of carries. And yes, if you apply that to all other players, ypc becomes a much more meaningful statistic.
Poor comparison. Pittman and Shipp have never equaled Rhett (maybe combined). Holmes had a history of being good (1000 yds), something Jones has never had. Holmes was also injured that year and only played in 9 games.
I guess the point wasn't so simple. ONE run significantly distorts Jones' stats while ONE run doesn't distort Lewis' stats. Until Jones carries the ball more than 137 times, ypc will remain insignificant.
Too bad hes not clearly a better pick than Pinner! 
