Thomas Jones - I have him ranked #12RB (1 Viewer)

[jwvdcw]

Also the fact that they were behind so often means they had to abandon the run. Next!

Won't that be similar to the situation Chicago finds themselves in this year - esp. with their losses in the secondary and the fact they face Favre, C-Pepp and Harringont twice each this year?

Are you seriously using the fact that they face Harrington twice as a reason that they'll fall behind a lot!!??? The man has put up perhaps the worst few seasons by a QB in NFL history! What I'm saying is that the Bears will be a lot better similar to KC and St Louis when they added Holmes and Faulk...they'll improve to a good team.See this thread for my thoughts on how I think the Bears will do this year.Now obviously nothing is for certain...but my point is that those who are predicting stardom for Jones are probably also predicting the Bears to be much much better.

 

[GCP]

Thomas Jones is not that good a player, he never has been and he never will be. Please stop saying he's good.

 

[jwvdcw]

Also the fact that they were behind so often means they had to abandon the run.  Next!

Won't that be similar to the situation Chicago finds themselves in this year - esp. with their losses in the secondary and the fact they face Favre, C-Pepp and Harringont twice each this year?

Exactly!! That's the way I see the Bears this year!Given two equally talented running backs with the same opportunity, the one on the better team will score more fantasy points.Thomlinson and Taylor and Deuce put up great numbers because they are SO talented. But unless you can prove TJ is more talented than Brown / Westbrook / Dillon / Rudi / Henry....I'll be passing on TJ.

what round were those guys drafted in? Jones was 7th overall. You don't go that high unless you have talent. You can argue that Jones doesn't have the mental ability to succeed(ala Ryan Leaf) but don't tell me he doesn't have amazing natural talent.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Don't overlook the fact that TJ plays in the NFC North, where defense is an afterthought.I've always placed a bit of a premium on RBs in the NFCN, and love the fact that TJ gets the Vikings, Packers, and Lions twice.

 

[MSULions]

Also the fact that they were behind so often means they had to abandon the run. Next!

Won't that be similar to the situation Chicago finds themselves in this year - esp. with their losses in the secondary and the fact they face Favre, C-Pepp and Harringont twice each this year?

Exactly!! That's the way I see the Bears this year!Given two equally talented running backs with the same opportunity, the one on the better team will score more fantasy points.Thomlinson and Taylor and Deuce put up great numbers because they are SO talented. But unless you can prove TJ is more talented than Brown / Westbrook / Dillon / Rudi / Henry....I'll be passing on TJ.

what round were those guys drafted in? Jones was 7th overall. You don't go that high unless you have talent. You can argue that Jones doesn't have the mental ability to succeed(ala Ryan Leaf) but don't tell me he doesn't have amazing natural talent.

Yes, just look at Curtis Enis (5th), Lawrence Phillips (6th), Tim Biakabatuka (8th), Ki-Jana Carter (1st)....

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It's not about stats.  It's not about YPC.  It's not about anything from his days in Arizona.  It's not about what Priest Holmes or Marshall Faulk did in this offense. 

It's about the way Thomas Jones has played since last season, and all of the reasons pointing to him having all of the talent and opportunity to succeed this year.

I was just going to write the exact same thing.Why spend time dissecting stats from limited playing time? TJ's game against the Eagles (3.0 YPC) last year was just as impressive as his game against the Packers (14.9 YPC), but you'd never know it from looking at the box scores. If you're trying to evaluate somebody's talent, you'd often do yourself a favor to forget the stats and just watch him play.

Is he fast? Quick? Powerful? Does he have moves? Does he have hands? Can he find the hole and show some burst getting through it? Etc.

Those are the questions the scout in you should be asking yourself as you watch him play. Not "how many yards did he get?", which is largely a function of situation and opportunity instead of talent, especially with a limited sample of plays.

My own view, having watched TJ play over the years, is that he didn't look very good in Arizona -- at all. He was fast, but he lacked patience and vision. He did not set up his blocks up, and he did not break many tackles. Michael Pittman showed a lot more effort and toughness, and got better results.

Last year, however, TJ looked a lot better. He found room to run and showed excellent quickness and moves. He could squirt through the hole inside; and he showed excellent open-field run skills in space. This year during preseason it's been more of the same.

He looks like he's finally ready to live up to his potential. (And he's always had a lot of it.)

 

[Gr00vus]

I've said before that I think Thomas Jones is fools' gold, and I'm sticking with it, for many reasons already mentioned. Thankfully I did well enough drafting that I never really had to consider him since I was good with the running backs I had already without having to speculate on whether a 26 year old ne'er do well will magically turn his career around.But here's something I don't see mentioned enough. John Gruden seems to be pretty on the ball as far as being an NFL coach and knowing/handling talent. If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk knowing Alstott is recovering from a career threatening neck injury, Pittman (who also isn't very good) would be out for the first few games of the season, just to bring in a banged up 32 year old Charlie Garner? Essentially that's Gruden and the Buc's brass saying Jones isn't better than any of those guys, whatever angle you want to take. Sorry folks, I'm going to side with Gruden over an ex-defensive coach who's never been in charge of personnel and a bunch of message board messiahs on this one.If he makes it through the season as the uncontested starter, at his career average of 3.8 ypc, given 350 touches, he would end up with about 1330 yards total. I don't see Chicago putting lots of points on the board, so I see his TD potential capped at 8. That's his ceiling as far as I can see, and I really don't think he reaches those numbers. That's not a very compelling number 2 back.His floor - he could (again) be a nearly complete wash out. Thomas Jones, the 12th overall running back?

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

It's not about stats.  It's not about YPC.  It's not about anything from his days in Arizona.  It's not about what Priest Holmes or Marshall Faulk did in this offense. 

It's about the way Thomas Jones has played since last season, and all of the reasons pointing to him having all of the talent and opportunity to succeed this year.

I was just going to write the exact same thing.Why spend time dissecting stats from limited playing time? TJ's game against the Eagles (3.0 YPC) last year was just as impressive as his game against the Packers (14.9 YPC), but you'd never know it from looking at the box scores. If you're trying to evaluate somebody's talent, you'd often do yourself a favor to forget the stats and just watch him play.

Is he fast? Quick? Powerful? Does he have moves? Does he have hands? Can he find the hole and show some burst getting through it? Etc.

Those are the questions the scout in you should be asking yourself as you watch him play. Not "how many yards did he get?", which is largely a function of situation and opportunity instead of talent, especially with a limited sample of plays.

My own view, having watched TJ play over the years, is that he didn't look very good in Arizona -- at all. He was fast, but he lacked patience and vision. He did not set up his blocks up, and he did not break many tackles. Michael Pittman showed a lot more effort and toughness, and got better results.

Last year, however, TJ looked a lot better. He found room to run and showed excellent quickness and moves. He could squirt through the hole inside; and he showed excellent open-field run skills in space. This year during preseason it's been more of the same.

He looks like he's finally ready to live up to his potential. (And he's always had a lot of it.)

I guess your completely ignoring the pre-season and 2nd half of last seasonPotential meets oppurtunity

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's not about stats.  It's not about YPC.  It's not about anything from his days in Arizona.  It's not about what Priest Holmes or Marshall Faulk did in this offense. 

It's about the way Thomas Jones has played since last season, and all of the reasons pointing to him having all of the talent and opportunity to succeed this year.

I was just going to write the exact same thing.Why spend time dissecting stats from limited playing time? TJ's game against the Eagles (3.0 YPC) last year was just as impressive as his game against the Packers (14.9 YPC), but you'd never know it from looking at the box scores. If you're trying to evaluate somebody's talent, you'd often do yourself a favor to forget the stats and just watch him play.

Is he fast? Quick? Powerful? Does he have moves? Does he have hands? Can he find the hole and show some burst getting through it? Etc.

Those are the questions the scout in you should be asking yourself as you watch him play. Not "how many yards did he get?", which is largely a function of situation and opportunity instead of talent, especially with a limited sample of plays.

My own view, having watched TJ play over the years, is that he didn't look very good in Arizona -- at all. He was fast, but he lacked patience and vision. He did not set up his blocks up, and he did not break many tackles. Michael Pittman showed a lot more effort and toughness, and got better results.

Last year, however, TJ looked a lot better. He found room to run and showed excellent quickness and moves. He could squirt through the hole inside; and he showed excellent open-field run skills in space. This year during preseason it's been more of the same.

He looks like he's finally ready to live up to his potential. (And he's always had a lot of it.)

I guess your completely ignoring the pre-season and 2nd half of last seasonPotential meets oppurtunity

I must have missed something.Looks to me like Maurile is agreeing with me and anyone else who expects a significant breakout year coming from Thomas Jones.

He helped lead my 1st year dynasty team to a championship last year, and he hasn't slowed down this preseason....

 

[GridironMenace]

I'll go on record saying that T Jones will finish as a definite top 10 RB and probably a top 5 one.

Top 10 is bad enough but top 5?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[wolfeman]

drafted last night12 team,redraftbasic scoring, 1 pt per catchgot Jones in the 4th round and Martin in the 5thThe 1st 14 picks in my draft were RBs insane!!

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

It's not about stats.  It's not about YPC.  It's not about anything from his days in Arizona.  It's not about what Priest Holmes or Marshall Faulk did in this offense. 

It's about the way Thomas Jones has played since last season, and all of the reasons pointing to him having all of the talent and opportunity to succeed this year.

I was just going to write the exact same thing.Why spend time dissecting stats from limited playing time? TJ's game against the Eagles (3.0 YPC) last year was just as impressive as his game against the Packers (14.9 YPC), but you'd never know it from looking at the box scores. If you're trying to evaluate somebody's talent, you'd often do yourself a favor to forget the stats and just watch him play.

Is he fast? Quick? Powerful? Does he have moves? Does he have hands? Can he find the hole and show some burst getting through it? Etc.

Those are the questions the scout in you should be asking yourself as you watch him play. Not "how many yards did he get?", which is largely a function of situation and opportunity instead of talent, especially with a limited sample of plays.

My own view, having watched TJ play over the years, is that he didn't look very good in Arizona -- at all. He was fast, but he lacked patience and vision. He did not set up his blocks up, and he did not break many tackles. Michael Pittman showed a lot more effort and toughness, and got better results.

Last year, however, TJ looked a lot better. He found room to run and showed excellent quickness and moves. He could squirt through the hole inside; and he showed excellent open-field run skills in space. This year during preseason it's been more of the same.

He looks like he's finally ready to live up to his potential. (And he's always had a lot of it.)

I guess your completely ignoring the pre-season and 2nd half of last seasonPotential meets oppurtunity

I must have missed something.Looks to me like Maurile is agreeing with me and anyone else who expects a significant breakout year coming from Thomas Jones.

He helped lead my 1st year dynasty team to a championship last year, and he hasn't slowed down this preseason....

My bad I quoted the wrong post I meant to hit the one above it

 

[kapp]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm jumping in late here, and largely agree with Maurile's premise that you have to assess two things, his ability and his opportunity.That said, I continue to be on record suggesting that if you get Thomas Jones to provide you low end RB2 production you need to consider it a gift from on high. Just because the Bears are implementing the Chiefs/Rams offense does not mean Thomas Jones = Priest Holmes = Marshall Faulk. Terry Shea DOES NOT equal Mike Martz or **** Vermeil. He's NEVER been an offensive coordinator in the NFL and his lone play calling experience was with perennial doormat Rutgers.Bears O-Line DOES NOT equal the O-lines assembled in Kansas City and St. Louis, Can this line get better with a few additional pieces and some experience playing together? Sure, but not yet.You've got the most inexperienced coaching staff in the NFL in Chicago. This is not to say Lovie, Shea and Rivera won't eventually build a good program, but there are significant growing pains for first time coaches/coordinators and making matters worse, there are no assistants on staff with experience at those levels to help mitigate the learning process.2004 is not going to be a landmark year for Chicago on either side of the ball, what Bears fans (and fantasy owners) need to realistically hope for is the laying of a solid foundation for 2005 and beyond. That's the best case scenario.

 

[tietzjd]

I'm jumping in late here, and largely agree with Maurile's premise that you have to assess two things, his ability and his opportunity.That said, I continue to be on record suggesting that if you get Thomas Jones to provide you low end RB2 production you need to consider it a gift from on high. Just because the Bears are implementing the Chiefs/Rams offense does not mean Thomas Jones = Priest Holmes = Marshall Faulk. Terry Shea DOES NOT equal Mike Martz or **** Vermeil. He's NEVER been an offensive coordinator in the NFL and his lone play calling experience was with perennial doormat Rutgers.Bears O-Line DOES NOT equal the O-lines assembled in Kansas City and St. Louis, Can this line get better with a few additional pieces and some experience playing together? Sure, but not yet.You've got the most inexperienced coaching staff in the NFL in Chicago. This is not to say Lovie, Shea and Rivera won't eventually build a good program, but there are significant growing pains for first time coaches/coordinators and making matters worse, there are no assistants on staff with experience at those levels to help mitigate the learning process.2004 is not going to be a landmark year for Chicago on either side of the ball, what Bears fans (and fantasy owners) need to realistically hope for is the laying of a solid foundation for 2005 and beyond. That's the best case scenario.

Woods is on it again. Low end 2 is where he will end up most likely. Making him Great pick for you as your 3rd back! Picked 8th last weekend 1st 6 rounds for me were. (Lewis,Barlow,Mason,Jones,Dunn,J. Smith) Very happy with Jones and Dunn at Number 3 and 4.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'm jumping in late here, and largely agree with Maurile's premise that you have to assess two things, his ability and his opportunity.That said, I continue to be on record suggesting that if you get Thomas Jones to provide you low end RB2 production you need to consider it a gift from on high. Just because the Bears are implementing the Chiefs/Rams offense does not mean Thomas Jones = Priest Holmes = Marshall Faulk. Terry Shea DOES NOT equal Mike Martz or **** Vermeil. He's NEVER been an offensive coordinator in the NFL and his lone play calling experience was with perennial doormat Rutgers.Bears O-Line DOES NOT equal the O-lines assembled in Kansas City and St. Louis, Can this line get better with a few additional pieces and some experience playing together? Sure, but not yet.You've got the most inexperienced coaching staff in the NFL in Chicago. This is not to say Lovie, Shea and Rivera won't eventually build a good program, but there are significant growing pains for first time coaches/coordinators and making matters worse, there are no assistants on staff with experience at those levels to help mitigate the learning process.2004 is not going to be a landmark year for Chicago on either side of the ball, what Bears fans (and fantasy owners) need to realistically hope for is the laying of a solid foundation for 2005 and beyond. That's the best case scenario.

Woods is on it again. Low end 2 is where he will end up most likely. Making him Great pick for you as your 3rd back! Picked 8th last weekend 1st 6 rounds for me were. (Lewis,Barlow,Mason,Jones,Dunn,J. Smith) Very happy with Jones and Dunn at Number 3 and 4.

I'll respectfully disagree. Considering the guys who would have to finish ahead of him for him to finish as a low end #2, I don't see him finishing nearly that low. That said, draft him as a #3 and watch him outperform a bunch of guys taken ahead of him.Barring injury, Thomas Jones will be a top 15 RB this year. The people who think he'll be like Faulk or Priest just because they want to implement that offense are fooling themselves. Thing is, he doesn't NEED that offense to be successful, but an offense that features him and his speed can ONLY help no matter who's calling the plays. When given the feature back role last year in Tampa Bay's offense, he accounted for 110 yards of offense per game. More importantly, he looked great doing it, and that's carried over into this preseason. Even his doubters have come away from watching him this year impressed with him. He's running now with more speed, vision, and power than at any point previously in his career, and his talent alone will make him productive when given the opportunity.

 

[Willie Mays Hayes]

It's funny how Chicago has no shot at producing a decent fantasy RB while Kevan Barlow consistenly ranks at least a full round of ADP higher than Jones.

 

[jwvdcw]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

 

[Judge Smails]

I think Trem hit it on the head. I watched Jones at AZ and it looked like he was just running into the line without waiting for plays/holes to develop. No vision at all. Turned out that like some of you young guys, he was "premature". At TB, when given the opp, he looked like a completely different back. He was better than Pittman last year. Bottom line, they had Pittman locked up but not Jones, and they didn't want to pay him what he was getting from Chicago. He was without question the best back on the Bucs. Pittman stunk.This year, everyone agrees he has looked great during the preseason, against first team defenses."As he's done throughout the preseason, Jones once again looked like the type of back the Bears envisioned when they signed him on the first day of free agency. He rushed for 65 yards on 10 carries including runs of 15, 11 and 10 yards on the Bears' first scoring drive. "I feel good out there," Jones said. "The offensive line is doing a good job of maintaining their blocks and I'm just trying to find the hole. The offense is a great offense for me. It gives me an opportunity to feed my instincts a little more." In three preseason games, Jones has rushed for 150 yards on 23 attempts, a robust 6.5-yards per carry average. "You have to be excited for what he's done," said coach Lovie Smith. "He's really run the ball well, hard inside, outside he's shown speed. We're pleased with him and our running game as a whole. "

 

[placeholder10391]

I love the Thomas Jones debates.

I was here on TJ's bandwagon in the Spring, and it's gotten a bit more crowded here since then...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=78777&hl=jones

 

[Gr00vus]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.Sorry, try again.

 

[zamboni]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.Sorry, try again.

Actually, from what I recall, Gruden and Co. really wanted to re-sign him, but knew that another suitor would offer more money than what Tampa could afford under the cap.I remember GM Bruce Allen specifically saying they want him back, but that another team would probably grab him. I'll try to find a link if possible.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.

Sorry, try again.

GrOOvus, you should have bowed out ungracefully.From the Naples Daily Times, in early March:

Andy Kent: Gruden, Bucs have offseason headaches

By ANDY KENT, ankent@naplesnews.com

March 5, 2004

Welcome to the era of free agency Tampa Bay.

One year removed from winning the Super Bowl, the Buccaneers roster is going through the kind of shake-up their fans aren't accustomed to.

They were spoiled by the draft acumen and contract restructuring of former general manager Rich McKay, which resulted in one of the more stable franchises in the NFL from 1995-2003.

But McKay is in Atlanta now, and the Bucs are feeling the repercussions of the victory head coach Jon Gruden notched in his power struggle with McKay.

Gruden, whether he willingly admits it or not, has an affinity for veteran players, and his desire to land them at all costs helped put Tampa Bay into a salary cap hole.

On Wednesday, the first day free agents could sign with other teams, Gruden saw the man he had pegged as his top running back for the 2004 season, Thomas Jones, sign a four-year contract with the Chicago Bears.

And defensive tackle and franchise cornerstone Warren Sapp still is on the market.

Meanwhile, Keyshawn Johnson continues to give Gruden nightmares even though the controversial receiver hasn't been in Tampa since the Bucs deactivated him for the last six games of the 2003 season. He is costing Tampa Bay $7.1 million against the cap, and not even a possible trade to the Dallas Cowboys for receiver Joey Galloway will help.

Johnson agreed to restructure his contract with the Cowboys as a four-year, $20 million deal. But Galloway, who has a seven-year, $42 million contract, wasn't anywhere close to being on the same page as the Bucs on Wednesday and the trade now is in jeopardy.

Offensive guard Cosey Coleman's agent has made it clear his client wants out of Tampa Bay, which paved the way for the Bucs to sign tackle/guard Derrick Deese from San Francisco on Thursday.

So with Jones gone, Gruden has a quandary at the running back position. Michael Pittman, his top choice most of last season, still has a legal cloud hanging over his head. It stems from an incident last summer in which he was accused of ramming his Hummer into the back of his wife's car with their son in it, and his hearing has been continued numerous times.

Fullback Mike Alstott is trying to come back from neck surgery, and since his ability to handle contact won't be known until training camp, Gruden can't count on him.

Oddly enough, Gruden's best shot at landing a quality running back now is going to be through the draft, where McKay was so adept. Gruden's going to have to hope someone like Florida State's Greg Jones still is around in the second round, because he has more pressing needs with his first-round pick (15th overall) — like receiver.

But the roster-shifting only has just begun, and longtime Bucs like linebacker Derrick Brooks and safety John Lynch have to be feeling a little bit nervous about what their future holds.

There's no doubt this is Jon Gruden's team now in Tampa Bay.

You can e-mail staff writer Andy Kent at ankent@naplesnews.com.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm sorry, I didn't see anywhere in there where they actually offered Jones a contract....did I miss it?See, talk is cheap (it cost the Bucs exactly $0 in fact). If they really wanted the guy, don't you think they would have made an offer? Instead they were "surprised" to see how much money and time the Bears (who have been such a solid franchise in terms of personnel decisions recently right? I mean that Kordell Stewart signing was brilliant!) offered him. Meanwhile they go out and sign the guy they really wanted all along.Once again, I have to say, nice try.But I've got nothing to lose here, I don't have TJ on any team (thank goodness). You guys place your bets on TJ, and when you come up empty I'll be laughing - heck I already am.What's been funny is the incredible convolutions people have gone through to convince themselves that Jones is a good idea, all the while ignoring the myriad problems with both him and his situation. It's truly comical.Thomas Jones #12 back.......

 

[KCC]

Anyone else having flashbacks to the debates on Priest Holmes when he moved from Baltimore to K.C.???

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone else having flashbacks to the debates on Priest Holmes when he moved from Baltimore to K.C.???

You mean the Priest Holmes that put up over a grand in his second season in the league (first as a starter) and then moved to a team with a pretty good offensive line? That Priest Holmes?

 

[KCC]

Anyone else having flashbacks to the debates on Priest Holmes when he moved from Baltimore to K.C.???

You mean the Priest Holmes that put up over a grand in his second season in the league (first as a starter) and then moved to a team with a pretty good offensive line? That Priest Holmes?

Yep - that's the one. Of course, there were many detractors who discounted that information and sounded awfully sure about the fact that he would be a bust in KC.

 

[BREDDICK]

I got LT and Thomas Jones as my starters, in my auction league

 

[HobbesAB]

I'm another person on the TJ bandwagon. As others have mentioned, his effort from last season has carried over this year so far and I'm cautiously optimistic. I picked him up in the 4th as my RB3 behind Ahman Green and Domanick Davis. I can live with getting him there.

 

[kapp]

I'm sorry, I didn't see anywhere in there where they actually offered Jones a contract....did I miss it?

Perhaps that is exactly why the Bears offered as Jones much as they did...to keep the Bucs, or anyone else, from offering a similar contract.Did you read this part?

On Wednesday, the first day free agents could sign with other teams, Gruden saw the man he had pegged as his top running back for the 2004 season, Thomas Jones, sign a four-year contract with the Chicago Bears.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.Sorry, try again.

I'm sorry...did the Bucks sign Garner before or after the Bears made Jones a very large contract offer? And is it so unlikely that a team lets its players test the free agent waters, only to turn around and sign them after it's all said and done?I think the signing of Jones happened so fast that the great Gruden and TB mgmt didn't even know what hit them. I could be wrong, but as I recall, Jones was one of the first free agents to sign after the period bega[n. I'm sure their strategy was to gamble and let him test the waters so he could see that his value was low...a strategy that didn't pay off. All of this is, ofcourse, speculation on my part.

You guys place your bets on TJ, and when you come up empty I'll be laughing - heck I already am.

I personally don't have him on any of may fantasy teams. Wish I did though.

 

[Koya]

Anyone else having flashbacks to the debates on Priest Holmes when he moved from Baltimore to K.C.???

You mean the Priest Holmes that put up over a grand in his second season in the league (first as a starter) and then moved to a team with a pretty good offensive line? That Priest Holmes?

You mean, numbers similar to the numbers T Jones put up in the second half of the year - which was his only time to demonstrate his capabilities, then moves to a Bears team with a decent line?Not execting near Priest numbers - but top 12-15 is very attainable. From there top 10 while unlikely, is at the least possible.

 

[Gr00vus]

What's been funny is the incredible convolutions people have gone through to convince themselves that Jones is a good idea, all the while ignoring the myriad problems with both him and his situation. It's truly comical.Thomas Jones #12 back.......

More of the same.Just for fun, please tell me which of the following running backs you reasonably expect TJ to perform better than in order to break into the top 12:LaDainian Tomlinson,Priest Holmes,Ahman Green,Deuce McCallister,Shaun Alexander,Clinton Portis,Edgerrin James,Fred Taylor,CoreyDillon,Jamal Lewis,Kevan Barlow,Domanick Davis,Marshall Faulk,Travis Henry,Brian Westbrook,Kevin Jones,Chris Brown,Rudi Johnson,Curtis Martinheck you could probably throw Quentin and Julius in there as well.Take your time.....

 

[tommyGunZ]

Just for fun, please tell me which of the following running backs you reasonably expect TJ to perform better than in order to break into the top 12:

LaDainian Tomlinson,

Priest Holmes,

Ahman Green,

Deuce McCallister,

Shaun Alexander,

Clinton Portis,

Edgerrin James,

Fred Taylor,

Thomas Jones

CoreyDillon,

Jamal Lewis,

Kevan Barlow,

Domanick Davis,

Marshall Faulk,

Travis Henry,

Brian Westbrook,

Kevin Jones,

Chris Brown,

Rudi Johnson,

Curtis Martin

heck you could probably throw Quentin and Julius in there as well.

Take your time.....

How about there?

 

[Solidsteel Rats]

Got T.Jones to at 3.3At 1.3 got McallisterAt 2.10 got DillonThen at 3.3 took T.Jones..was thinking have two good rb's and P. Manning was still not picked, but my heart went to T.Jones.Did I mess up???

 

[BAT1man]

What's been funny is  the incredible convolutions people have gone through to convince themselves that Jones is a good idea, all the while ignoring the myriad problems with both him and his situation.  It's truly comical.Thomas Jones #12 back.......           

More of the same.Just for fun, please tell me which of the following running backs you reasonably expect TJ to perform better than in order to break into the top 12:LaDainian Tomlinson,Priest Holmes,Ahman Green,Deuce McCallister,Shaun Alexander,Clinton Portis,Edgerrin James,Fred Taylor,CoreyDillon,Jamal Lewis,Kevan Barlow,Domanick Davis,Marshall Faulk,Travis Henry,Brian Westbrook,Kevin Jones,Chris Brown,Rudi Johnson,Curtis Martinheck you could probably throw Quentin and Julius in there as well.Take your time.....

While #12 may be a stretch, I do expect him to out perform, from your list...CoreyDillon,Domanick Davis,Marshall Faulk,Brian Westbrook,and to be in same range as...Kevan Barlow,Kevin Jones,Chris Brown,Rudi Johnson,Curtis MartinDrafting him as a 3rd back and expecting low #2 results, is not crazy talk. It's being realistic with a smidge of optimism.

 

[Redwes25]

I wil add my two cents on this one just b/c I know it will be bumped all season long. I am not high on Jones because I have been burned by him in the past. In addition, I don't think he has much of a supporting cast and I think that the inexperienced coaching staff will have a negative impact.

 

[BigTuna]

LaDainian Tomlinson,Priest Holmes,Ahman Green,Deuce McCallister,Shaun Alexander,Clinton Portis,Edgerrin James,Fred Taylor,CoreyDillon,Jamal Lewis,Kevan Barlow,Domanick Davis,Marshall Faulk,Travis Henry,Brian Westbrook,Kevin Jones,Chris Brown,Rudi Johnson,Curtis Martinheck you could probably throw Quentin and Julius in there as

I'd probably say he'd out perform Jamal Lewis, only because I don't think he'll play a whole season.Marshall Faulk - becauase jackson is thereTravis Henry - Because Mcgahee is thereCurtis Martin, see eddie georgeGriffin - Tantum BellJulius - eddie Chris Brown - rookKevin Jones - rookBrian Westbrook - dont' see it happening. Lets say I miss on 3 of these. that still sits him at no 15 on your list. Not a bad second rb. I admit that he is a risk, but who on this list that I've given isn't a risk?

 

[jwvdcw]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.Sorry, try again.

He was a FA! So in other words, they have no rights to him. What can they do if he wants to go to Chicago? This is a moot argument anyway because the point has been made tons of times in this thread that different stud RBs do differently in specific systems and that many believe Jones fits the Chicago system but not the TB system or Arizona(who does fit their system?).

 

[jwvdcw]

If Jones is that good, why would Gruden let him walk....

Once again...this is a bad point. Nobody let Jones walk. Jones was a free agent and the Bears paid a lot of money for him.

BZZZZT incorrect...Free agent, not offered a contract by Tampa == let him walk. They didn't even bother trying to sign him, they just went out and signed Charlie Garner instead.

Sorry, try again.

GrOOvus, you should have bowed out ungracefully.From the Naples Daily Times, in early March:

Andy Kent: Gruden, Bucs have offseason headaches

By ANDY KENT, ankent@naplesnews.com

March 5, 2004

Welcome to the era of free agency Tampa Bay.

One year removed from winning the Super Bowl, the Buccaneers roster is going through the kind of shake-up their fans aren't accustomed to.

They were spoiled by the draft acumen and contract restructuring of former general manager Rich McKay, which resulted in one of the more stable franchises in the NFL from 1995-2003.

But McKay is in Atlanta now, and the Bucs are feeling the repercussions of the victory head coach Jon Gruden notched in his power struggle with McKay.

Gruden, whether he willingly admits it or not, has an affinity for veteran players, and his desire to land them at all costs helped put Tampa Bay into a salary cap hole.

On Wednesday, the first day free agents could sign with other teams, Gruden saw the man he had pegged as his top running back for the 2004 season, Thomas Jones, sign a four-year contract with the Chicago Bears.

And defensive tackle and franchise cornerstone Warren Sapp still is on the market.

Meanwhile, Keyshawn Johnson continues to give Gruden nightmares even though the controversial receiver hasn't been in Tampa since the Bucs deactivated him for the last six games of the 2003 season. He is costing Tampa Bay $7.1 million against the cap, and not even a possible trade to the Dallas Cowboys for receiver Joey Galloway will help.

Johnson agreed to restructure his contract with the Cowboys as a four-year, $20 million deal. But Galloway, who has a seven-year, $42 million contract, wasn't anywhere close to being on the same page as the Bucs on Wednesday and the trade now is in jeopardy.

Offensive guard Cosey Coleman's agent has made it clear his client wants out of Tampa Bay, which paved the way for the Bucs to sign tackle/guard Derrick Deese from San Francisco on Thursday.

So with Jones gone, Gruden has a quandary at the running back position. Michael Pittman, his top choice most of last season, still has a legal cloud hanging over his head. It stems from an incident last summer in which he was accused of ramming his Hummer into the back of his wife's car with their son in it, and his hearing has been continued numerous times.

Fullback Mike Alstott is trying to come back from neck surgery, and since his ability to handle contact won't be known until training camp, Gruden can't count on him.

Oddly enough, Gruden's best shot at landing a quality running back now is going to be through the draft, where McKay was so adept. Gruden's going to have to hope someone like Florida State's Greg Jones still is around in the second round, because he has more pressing needs with his first-round pick (15th overall) — like receiver.

But the roster-shifting only has just begun, and longtime Bucs like linebacker Derrick Brooks and safety John Lynch have to be feeling a little bit nervous about what their future holds.

There's no doubt this is Jon Gruden's team now in Tampa Bay.

You can e-mail staff writer Andy Kent at ankent@naplesnews.com.

Could you possibly be any more? Wow!

 

[jwvdcw]

Anyone else having flashbacks to the debates on Priest Holmes when he moved from Baltimore to K.C.???

You mean the Priest Holmes that put up over a grand in his second season in the league (first as a starter) and then moved to a team with a pretty good offensive line? That Priest Holmes?

Yep - that's the one. Of course, there were many detractors who discounted that information and sounded awfully sure about the fact that he would be a bust in KC.

Just as many here are discounting how good Jones looked at the end of last year and the upgrades Chicago has made to their o-line.

 

[jwvdcw]

Just for fun, please tell me which of the following running backs you reasonably expect TJ to perform better than in order to break into the top 12:

LaDainian Tomlinson,

Priest Holmes,

Ahman Green,

Deuce McCallister,

Shaun Alexander,

Clinton Portis,

Edgerrin James,

Fred Taylor,

Thomas Jones

CoreyDillon,

Jamal Lewis,

Kevan Barlow,

Domanick Davis,

Marshall Faulk,

Travis Henry,

Brian Westbrook,

Kevin Jones,

Chris Brown,

Rudi Johnson,

Curtis Martin

heck you could probably throw Quentin and Julius in there as well.

Take your time.....

How about there?

 

[kapp]

Bears "Front 5 finally starts to jell"

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...bears-headlines

Another area that points towards TJ having a very good year...his O-Line is looking very much improved.

 

[sjslacker]

Has there been any indication whether or not TJ will get pulled at the goal line?

 

[chet]

Watch out for the fumbles--if he drops the ball, he will be replaced QUICKLY.

 

[kapp]

I have not heard anywhere that pulling TJ from the goal line is an option. Don't see why they would pull him.

 

[kapp]

They definitely didn't pull him from the goal line today.

 

[kapp]

Game 1:68 yards rushing, 38 yards receiving, 2 TDs. Sat out the 3rd quarter. I think he had a pretty good game. Not outstanding, not great, but pretty good. The bears offensive played awful and they were in 3rd and long much of the game. But the future looks very bright for Jones.Here is a recap of a few hater comments. I know it's only week 1, but lets see how dumb you look this year...

4thAndForever:I have him ranked 29th among RBs, behind the likes of Charlie Garner, Duce Staley, DeShaun Foster, and Moe Williams. Sorry, I have nothing against the guy, but Thomas Jones is a flunky, plain and simple. Always has been, always will be.

MSULions:he hype he is getting is borderline insane. He has done nothing thusfar to warrant the kind of consideration he his getting. remember, this guy was, what, the #7 pick out of college? He's been a bust from the getgo.....I would put him in the bottom 5 starters right now....

GCP:Thomas Jones is not that good a player, he neverhas been and he never will be. Please stop saying he's good.

And we could start an entire thread on the dumb comments Gr00vus has made. I'll start with this one...

I've said before that I think Thomas Jones is fools' gold, and I'm sticking with it, for many reasons already mentioned. Sorry folks, I'm going to side with Gruden over an ex-defensive coach who's never been in charge of personnel and a bunch of message board messiahs on this one.

 

[jwvdcw]

Just want to chime in here incase this thread get's bumped in December. I'd be mad if I wasn't man enough to at least put my neck on the line.I am a Thomas Jones doubter. I can't put my finger on it, but it's some combination of not trusting the Bears to produce a fantasy-worth RB, TJ's constant dissappointing and strange injuries and a general belief in other RBs at his tier.For example, I think both Westbrook and C Brown will exceed TJ's production. Taking Jones before Brown is crazy IMO.But it takes all types......

Your boldness has inspired me.I'll go on record saying that T Jones will finish as a definite top 10 RB and probably a top 5 one.

week 2 stats:152 rush yards and 1 TD7 rec yardsgood days work

 

[kapp]

And the Bearsz offensive line looks very good. John Tait just mauls people on the right side. Go TJ!

 

[Jason Wood]

As someone who was anti-TJ, I'll give credit where credit is due. A LOT can happen between now and the end of the season, but two weeks in and he looks to be the lone difference maker on that offense, and he's been successful despite little help from the passing game to keep defenses honest. Certainly = value pick two weeks into the year.